[HN Gopher] Acronym's new computer with Asus is bonkers, but tha...
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Acronym's new computer with Asus is bonkers, but that's the point
Author : webmaven
Score : 113 points
Date : 2023-08-17 06:02 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
| bitwize wrote:
| Cosplay cyberdeck junk for teenagers who want to think they're
| Zero Cool.
|
| People with _actual_ design sensibilities buy Apple.
| spread_love wrote:
| Word, remember the world before the hockey puck mouse? Strange
| to think we used to shape those like a human hand.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Those "mounting points" look rather painful and probably
| annoying. I can already see them catching on various things and
| might even slightly hurt user in certain situations.
| kevinventullo wrote:
| Anyone criticizing this has simply never needed to stand in the
| rain on the roof of a parking garage typing something into a
| terminal prompt. That's okay, it's not for everyone.
| qubex wrote:
| I doubt this thing is waterproof, but I still admire the
| aesthetics of it.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Makes me want to install a pen testing linux distro on it and
| run around in sunglasses cracking peoples wifi networks.
| _ZeD_ wrote:
| yeah, generally when it rains I prefer to have a roof over my
| head... moreso when I type.
|
| you should try it :D
| Animats wrote:
| The screen frame looks like it's made from stampings from the
| inside of a toaster.
| prepend wrote:
| I always found it odd that people would buy a computer how it
| looks over its performance as a tool. Of course, I really like
| cool looking stuff, but I wouldn't want a weak computer or or one
| that ran an OS that was hard for me to use.
|
| I guess there is an intersection of fashion nerd and computer
| nerd. And I am not the arbiter of computer nerd, but I think the
| 20 or so times I talked with people who said they were computer
| nerds and had cool looking computers that sucked as computers
| they didn't seem authentically computer nerdy (for lack of a
| better word).
|
| I specifically remember someone from the late 90s and early 00s
| who kept going on and on about how he was into computers and
| always had to have the best computers, the "absolute best" he
| would say. Then he had these really trash Sony vaios. I asked him
| about what he liked most and he just said how they were cool. I
| asked him what he ran and he didn't really say anything.
|
| People like collecting stuff, and I don't want to begrudge people
| their joy. But I'd like to learn about the people who buy these
| and what they are most interested in. I think my Sony Vaio guy
| just bought whatever was most expensive in the store.
| diegof79 wrote:
| > I always found it odd that people would buy a computer how it
| looks over its performance as a tool.
|
| If you have the interest, take a look to the book Emotional
| Design by Donald Norman. There is a cognitive theory on the
| perception of a product that goes into three levels: visceral,
| functional, and reflective.
|
| Even if you only care about functionality, an unpolished
| product will give you the impression that it's unfinished and
| adds bias to the perception of the functionality. In this case
| the design is oriented towards a particular audience that likes
| the cyberpunk aspect, the impact for that people is more
| reflective: I don't use the minimalist computers like everybody
| else, I use something that looks imperfect but works
| perfectly... well that's the idea. Personally, I'm more
| inclined to the minimalism of a Mac.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| orthecreedence wrote:
| > I always found it odd that people would buy a computer how it
| looks over its performance as a tool.
|
| I'm also perpetually confused that people buy Macs.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| I always found it odd that people would buy a computer how it
| looks over its performance as a tool.
|
| i9-13900H, NVIDIA GeForce RTX(tm) 4070 (Laptop), 1TB SSD, 32 GB
| RAM
|
| It has looks and performance seemingly
| CalRobert wrote:
| I imagine for your friend the computer, ultimately, was a
| commodity, and if you think of computers as a commodity then
| the looks are one of the only distinguishing factors.
|
| Similarly, how much of people's car-buying decisions come down
| to looks? Sure things like "how many seats" or cargo capacity
| matter but I imagine looks/perceived status boost are the
| biggest factor for a lot of people.
|
| Hell, I don't like admitting it but I actively dislike my
| cheapo phone (Nokia G22) in part because I think the colour is
| dumb. (Also modern Android kinda sucks, but that's a different
| story).
| ZephyrBlu wrote:
| Never would have thought I'd see Acronym being talked about on
| HN. Cool cross-over.
| geocrasher wrote:
| This looks more like a high end cyber deck than a usable laptop.
|
| I LIKE IT.
| glitchc wrote:
| I think this machine can be described in one word: gaudy.
| ilyt wrote:
| My first thought was "damn those grooves gonna be PITA to clean".
|
| > You'd better know how to touch type. The Cyrillic-ish alphabet
| designed for Acronym by Rudnick is all part of the theme -- this
| is a computer from another dimension slightly off axis from
| yours, where people stand in the rain on the roof of a parking
| garage typing something into a terminal prompt.
|
| _looks at qwerty letters clear, if a bit dim, on the keys_
|
| Did author sniffed glue before reviewing it or something ?
| [deleted]
| skrebbel wrote:
| I think this is super cool and I hope it's the start of a time
| when laptops look nicer and more distinctive. There's really no
| reason for every computer to either be a macbook or look like
| one.
|
| The idea of fashion designers making cool/new/different laptops
| makes a lot of sense. I want one & I hope this sticks!
|
| Edit: hahahh the space bar has the word "VOID" on it in a sleazy
| serif font. Love it
| baz00 wrote:
| I would be embarrassed to crack that open and do work on it.
| joshu wrote:
| i did some procedural art for the marketing campaign behind last
| acrnm/asus collab, although it seems to be down now:
| http://www.skyanycolour.com/
| p1necone wrote:
| I really dislike kickstand style laptop/tablet designs, a proper
| hinge is stable even on oddly shaped surfaces, doesn't collapse
| when picked up, can be used while sitting on the palm of your
| hand etc.
| ilyt wrote:
| It's pretty much for this
|
| https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vC9qXnc5MuA
|
| Althought I can't imagine someone actually using it that way...
|
| The keyboard is apparently detachable so it can be used as a
| tablet, which somewhat makes sense.
| CrimsonCape wrote:
| Anyone else notice a startling similarity between these products
| and midjourney renderings? It's like the designer intentionally
| finds people with odd proportions and then places clothing on
| them at strange jaunty angles and sizing which leaves people
| looking out of proportion to the clothing. Just like a lot of AI
| creation.
| ratel wrote:
| I am always looking for the interesting in computer design as
| most of what we work with is bland. The reviewer is a fanboy.
| Okay, that happens. He is the one claiming it to be functional.
| He calls it brutalist. Frankly I completely fail to see that with
| its mock engraving on the aluminum case and the stylized
| keyboard. Great design is art, but not all art is great design.
| It does not have to be. Whatever it thinks it is, it should not
| be boring. Unfortunately it is just that.
| 1-more wrote:
| > He calls it brutalist. Frankly I completely fail to see that
| with its mock engraving on the aluminum case and the stylized
| keyboard.
|
| I get the brutalism thing. There are a bunch of exposed bits
| that would normally have some trim over them. Brutalism
| literally meant showing the raw (brut) structural concrete
| rather than hiding it behind a facade. The back of the laptop
| does have a little much in the way of ornate greebling, but the
| sides of the top show just the structural bits, right?
| jrm4 wrote:
| Wow, the absolute joyless responses here remind me of exactly why
| _this place,_ and perhaps the tech world in general, is so VERY
| far from the wonderfully creative weird (virtual?) space that
| fostered my love of technology.
|
| I gotta find some better sites/communities
| oliveshell wrote:
| Amen.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| So because people don't share the same opinion as you, you're
| going to leave? Peace out.
| editional wrote:
| I understand not being able to understand different opinions
| on certain (or all) matters, its something that happens to
| everyone. Announcing it in a nonconstructive way instead of
| avoiding the topic, however, feels extremely off to me.
|
| OP might be the perfect stereotypical HN user while
| criticizing the same stereotype.
| FridgeSeal wrote:
| Yeah the comments admonishing a high-fashion techwear brand for
| "odd choice of lettering" and "trying to be futuristic" are
| strange.
|
| I want to see more wacky and boundary shamelessly "techno"
| designs like this, it's like someone brought something from a
| Gibson novel to life and I dig it. I'll take this over the
| current crop of bland device/tech design.
| cpach wrote:
| Yeah, this is so Gibson. When I saw these photos I
| immediately came to think of Cayce Pollard.
| wmf wrote:
| Gibson and the Acronym guy are BFFs.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| When I saw it my first reaction was that if Hackers had
| released in 2023 instead of 1995, this is the computer they
| would be using instead of netbooks
|
| My second reaction is that I'm due for a rewatch of
| Hackers...
| renewiltord wrote:
| It's hard to find optimistic places on the Internet these days.
| I'm not sure why, but there's definitely a switch in the
| pattern of how people interact with technology. I thought
| perhaps it was because they don't interact with its creation,
| but on HN I've had fellow people who write software rail
| against easter eggs as unprofessional.
|
| Perhaps makerspaces are better. Traditional tech spaces are now
| dominated by oppressor/oppressed mindset and incessant
| indulgence in outrage/anger.
|
| Still, I can't tell if this change is a change in me or a
| change in the world. It could well be that I just occupy
| different spaces against my better wishes. The other day I got
| some notification from ubuntuforums.org and found my posts from
| 2005. Haha, that was a riot! But very earnest attempts at
| stuff.
|
| Perhaps the only solution to this is to start one.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| I don't mind the design thing or the designer price, but I
| don't think much of the pretentious writer's voice boasting
| about his fancy clothing collection. If that's your aesthetic
| great, I see why he liked it. But please skip all the earnest
| talk about how Important it is, it's just an expensive LARPing
| outfit.
| namdnay wrote:
| > Acronym's clothing is designed to be an interface between
| the wearer and the world. Typically, wearing technical
| clothing and wearing regular clothing are really two separate
| experiences.
|
| Clearly the author has never set foot in the Alps (or any
| other mountain range). People wear technicals all day every
| day
| ubermonkey wrote:
| Thank you for this.
| dchest wrote:
| You can love creativity in tech and at the same time reject
| fakery.
|
| Maybe like someone who's into watches enjoys fun diversity of
| Swatch and G-SHOCK or artfulness and craft of more expensive
| brands and rejects blingy stylized pretentious watches from
| fashion brands.
|
| Also, please don't judge the community by their response to
| this design, because this design was specifically created to be
| polarizing. It's intended to generate debates, just like many
| pieces art.
| kkzz99 wrote:
| This is the exact comment you are decrying. You have no idea
| about the historic context and what acronym is and what kind
| of impact they have in the fashion world, especially
| techwear.
| dchest wrote:
| I don't judge their clothes, I judge this attempt at
| computer design. If Lange & Sohne collaborated with Honda
| on a set of fake spoilers and spiky lug nuts for Accord, I
| would similarly judge the result as a separate product.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Next you'll be telling us that we just "don't get" Demna
| Gvasalia and Vetements trying to "subvert the high fashion
| status quo" with $800 white t-shirts and $1,700 "destroyed
| jeans"...
|
| Demna Gvasalia, attempting to subvert the high fashion
| status quo, while starting his career at Maison Martin
| Margiela and LV, working under Marc Jacobs...
|
| Demna Gvasalia, whose current position is ... _checks
| notes_ ... creative director of Balenciaga. Ahh, yes, very
| ... subversive.
|
| The fashion world, even the high end, is not immune from
| criticism or outright mockery.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Oh, I'm _absolutely_ judging. That 's the point of being
| here. Probably because the people here don't feel like
| they're saying "This is ugly and I don't like it."
|
| It feels like they're saying "Because this is so ugly and
| objectively bad, it should not exist at all. It must be
| stamped out and everything should look like Apple."
| shlubbert wrote:
| I find it healthiest to just avoid any discussions on HN that
| touch design or art. They never go well.
| pjs_ wrote:
| Almost all the comments on this post are positive!
| MrLeap wrote:
| I'm with you in spirit. People like different things though,
| it's okay. It's a drag how hostile and hateful some of the
| comments about this have been though.
|
| I happen to like it. It looks rather durable. The sling
| attachment points are really cool. If I found some indication
| it was water resistant I'd add it to the short list of
| acquisitions.
|
| The aversion to high frequency detail is a fad that well go
| away some day.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| For some countervibes..: I fucking love the aesthetic. Come on
| dude/persons here at HN, it's fucking Henry Dorsett Case's
| cyberdeck. It's outrageously priced, and noone is forcing you
| to give up your macbook. It just looks interesting.
| jacquesm wrote:
| The most fun I had in my life was on the crossroads between art
| and computing. It also didn't pay enough to live of but super
| interesting work and super interesting people.
| rsolva wrote:
| My personal take is that I find the Framework laptops to be more
| in line with the cyberpunk vision, than this. Yes, this one looks
| kinda cool, but is it as moddable and modular as the framework?
| Systemic33 wrote:
| That's the most cyberpunk laptop/tablet I've ever seen, without
| it looking kitsch or gaudy -- very impressive!
| ilyt wrote:
| It doesn't look very cyber-punky to me in the first place
| codetrotter wrote:
| The website is nice too.
|
| https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-flow/rog-flow-z13-acrnm-rmt...
|
| It has some Matrix looking visuals going on in parts of the
| page.
|
| And there is a weird video of a guy who demonstrates wearing
| the computer, without saying anything. The vibe reminds me of
| that video game from a few years ago where you play a hacker in
| a cyberpunk future.
| psimonazzi wrote:
| That guy is actually Errolson, the cofounder and designer of
| Acronym.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Doesn't beat an old Thinkpad imho
| hn_shithole wrote:
| >How do you critique functional art?
|
| TechCrunch should be banned from having submissions on HN.
| solardev wrote:
| This thing is Stable Diffusion's drunken vision of a cyberpunk
| dystopia.
|
| ...is that a good or bad thing?
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| This kind of writing is a marvelous breath of fresh air.
|
| I've worked with Matt Panzarino in the past a few times and he's
| one of the most well versed tech journalists out there. And a
| nice guy to boot
|
| Laptop sounds pretty amazing too if pricey
| dchest wrote:
| Dieter Rams's Ten principles of good design state:
|
| 5. Good design is unobtrusive. Products fulfilling a purpose are
| like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art.
| Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to
| leave room for the user's self-expression.
|
| 6. Good design is honest. It does not make a product more
| innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It doesn't
| attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be
| kept.
|
| If you read these principles and reverse them, you get your
| typical "product art" -- a product form of clickbait titles -- an
| attention-grabbing product that's intended to shock and generate
| PR, not sell the actual thing.
|
| Such products are usually shallow: stylized to some theme without
| deeply understanding it, like user interfaces from movies, or
| like Lcroium's* own website (https://acrnm.com), which is
| stylized with useless _underscores and [brackets] without
| understanding why they are used in computing.
|
| *) that's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic.
| f33d5173 wrote:
| It seems like they're a fashion company. I don't see how one
| can "leave room for the user's self-expression" if one doesn't
| permit and even encourage the user to buy pieces of fashion or
| artwork to go along with utilitarian sensibility.
|
| Also, the website proper that you linked is amazingly
| utilitarian, especially in contrast to your introduction. It
| loads fast, and shows a list of images of various products
| right on the front page. I have seldom seen a product company
| with such a practical website as this. I had to look around to
| find the misuse of special characters that you're criticizing
| them for. This hardly ruins an otherwise good website
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| "L" = "A" is the most annoying faux-futuristic typesetting/logo
| trend I've ever come across. It's a lambda, "L", the ancient
| symbol of the Lacedaemonians.
|
| It should be possible to make an avantgarde font without
| confusing or oversimplifying letters.
|
| As an aside, I wonder how many graphic t-shirts those guys sell
| at $200.
| aqfamnzc wrote:
| Who are you to say that your interpretation of that character
| is any more valid than anyone else's? One might see a "turned
| v"[0] or any other manner of meanings.[1] However most
| English-speaking people are going to immediately realize that
| it's meant as a stylized "A".
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_v [1]
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA
| jrockway wrote:
| I swap the N and M keycaps on my keyboard because I think
| they should be in alphabetical order. It turns out that the
| labels on the keys have absolutely no bearing on which
| scancodes they produce!
| roskoez wrote:
| [flagged]
| petsfed wrote:
| Blame NASA ca 1975?
| [deleted]
| masfuerte wrote:
| Their plastic macs cost two grand!
| jacquesm wrote:
| Yes, designers are nuts for wanting to make logos that stand
| out. The design trend I'm sick and tired of is spacing common
| words with underscores and using capitals to achieve the
| exact same effect.
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| Well, it could be worse. I could have done this: LDKsPT
|
| Anyway, my point was that the symbol "L" has a distinct
| meaning from the symbol "A" -- and, try as I might, I can't
| see them as interchangeable.
| bitwize wrote:
| Have you seen that cool recent movie set on Arrakis? I
| believe it's called [?][?][?][?]
| CrimsonCape wrote:
| Nice, love it. What's the technical explanation for this?
| I assume it's because HTML5 renders all UTF-8 characters?
| bitwize wrote:
| Hackernews actually throws out many Unicode characters,
| such as emoji. But it renders the ones I used, in order
| U+2283 SUPERSET OF, U+222A UNION, U+2229 INTERSECTION,
| and U+2208 ELEMENT OF.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Most people that come across this logo have never seen L
| before. They might mistake it for an elongated '^' or an
| upside down 'V' but the bulk will just see an 'A' with a
| missing '-'.
|
| There is also 'V' as 'U' which is quite confusing and
| some others. Creative people will be creative, that's
| what they get paid for. It's low hanging fruit, obviously
| but it works because you _are_ talking about it. And that
| was their goal: to get you to notice it. Mission
| accomplished.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Looking at new camera bags, I stumbled across the WANDRD
| (sure, okay) PRVKE (what? Pruke? Took me far longer than
| it should to realize it was meant to be 'provoke')...
| HelloNurse wrote:
| By ignorants, for ignorants.
|
| I for N is equally terrible and meaningless.
| MrLeap wrote:
| There are smart people who like things you hate. You know
| what kind of person isn't empathetic and compassionate
| towards their fellow humans? They're idiots! Stupid
| idiots! MOOOOORONS.
| jacquesm wrote:
| ABBA started it...
| mydriasis wrote:
| > Lcroium's
|
| even worse - C -> S in Cyrillic :)
| throwanem wrote:
| I didn't know about this manufacturer, but I'm glad I do now,
| because I've been wondering since 2015 where Ubisoft got the
| design cues for "WATCH_DOGS".
|
| 'Shallow' is indeed the word...
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Being a good designer is knowing "Dieter Rams's Ten principles
| of good design"
|
| Being a great designer is knowing they don't matter
| boppo1 wrote:
| I have a 7950x, 64GB of ram, a 4800RTX and that website won't
| run 30fps for me. Hell it shoots my cpu to 100%. Gross.
| rjbwork wrote:
| 3950x, 64gb, 3090 here. CPU usage on firefox didn't rise
| above .7% for me.
| Cipater wrote:
| I have a cheap laptop with 8 GB of RAM and an integrated
| graphics card yet loading the website doesn't even register
| on my CPU usage.
|
| You have a problem with your setup.
| boppo1 wrote:
| What could it be? Everything else runs fine.
| namdnay wrote:
| To be fair, Fashion isn't really the same as design. No one
| expects the latest Gucci dress or Lamborghini to be unobtrusive
| mavu wrote:
| This is a very bad take, and serves only to highlight the
| joylessness of the person writing it (and the original "design
| principles")
|
| I would instantly dispute pretty much any word of the first 3
| sentences in your post. (except maybe the name)
|
| If you want to live in a world without choice, where everyone
| and everything looks the same (the inevitable endpoint of form
| follows function), be my guest, but at the end of your sad life
| you will remember all the times you looked back over the fence
| at all the people enjoying life in all its diverse forms,
| shapes, textures, activities and regret some choices you made
| along the way.
| HelloNurse wrote:
| Consider how joyless the designer of the unreadable keycaps
| must be, their sad life as they remember all the times they
| willfully damaged their even more clueless customers in
| pursuit of pseudo-style, looking at life in all its diverse
| forms, shapes, textures, activities and choosing bad ones for
| the lulz.
|
| Technical constraints do exist, and if you shit on them you
| are a pretentious bad designer of products that cannot be
| taken seriously.
| Nullabillity wrote:
| Maybe not every keyboard has to be designed for hunt-and-
| peckers. It's not even particularly original, Das Keyboard
| has sold blank keyboards for a decade, and many mobile
| keyboards have supported hiding the key labels for ages too
| (I've used it in Fleksy and MessagEase, but I'm sure many
| others have it too).
|
| Maybe it's not for you. That's okay. If it's been a niche
| for this long then I doubt it's gonna be the default
| anytime soon.
| jrockway wrote:
| I don't know how y'all type, but typically looking at a
| keyboard is only something you do for your first year after
| encountering a computer for the first time. After that, the
| keyboard takes up your desk, but isn't something you look
| at in order to use. Thus, keycaps optimized for looking
| nice while not in use makes more sense than keycaps
| optimized for being readable. You shouldn't be reading
| keycaps while you type, because you have a limited field of
| view and what's showing up on the screen is more relevant
| than what keys are being pressed.
|
| So the designer doing "I can just focus on art" is probably
| experiencing more joy than the designer doing "this has to
| be as cheap as possible" or "this is a keyboard for
| children learning to touch type", simply because the scope
| of work is so much more unconstrained. Art could be
| anything! A keyboard for people learning to use computers
| is going to mostly be letters.
| [deleted]
| dav_Oz wrote:
| There is certainly a grey zone, here. I personally think a
| more long lasting enjoyment and satisfaction comes from the
| possibility of putting some work in e.g. modifying (self-
| expression)/modularity and not some highly polished
| "finished" product which barely holds itself:
|
| > _Their design should therefore be both neutral and
| restrained, to leave room for the user 's self-expression._
|
| But I also have nothing against highly volatile treats from
| time to time reminding myself that in the end one must be
| also able to let go and enjoy the moment.
|
| In keeping with the golden mean (mesotes) these two things
| pushed too far are of course ugly, indeed, but the beauty of
| it very much depends from which side you need a steering
| direction.
|
| For me for example the tension between the aesthetic choice
| (ornament) camouflaged by caricaturing multi-functionality
| (usefulness) of the packaging of an ordinary product is an
| artistic expression of the state of affair we find ourselves:
| instant technical obsolescence the moment you have the
| product in your hands becoming an artifact in its own right.
| Is art ever useful? Is its value ultimately not just based on
| a fundamental impotency? I guess nowadays the most talented
| pool of artists express themselves through marketing. /s
| izacus wrote:
| > If you want to live in a world without choice, where
| everyone and everything looks the same (the inevitable
| endpoint of form follows function), be my guest, but at the
| end of your sad life you will remember all the times you
| looked back over the fence at all the people enjoying life in
| all its diverse forms, shapes, textures, activities and
| regret some choices you made along the way.
|
| Are you implying that the same gray macbook, paired with the
| same iPhone, that everyone else at your company, in your
| social circle and every coffee shop of your town is not the
| PINNACLE of social existence?
| kevinventullo wrote:
| Almost every iPhone user I know has a distinct unique case.
| Some cases are designed specifically for wireless charging,
| some have pop sockets which make it easier to hold, some
| have clear cases with a photograph inserted between the
| phone and the back of the case.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I don't see how buying something that is mass produced is a
| form of self-expression outside of the idea that you're an
| adherent of basic capitalism. Expression is what happens
| AFTER you buy it.
|
| Personally speaking after growing up in the 80s and having
| to be a slave to multiple brands from year to year lest I
| be labeled a lesser child for not having whatever was chic,
| I'm happy if everyone wears non-descript but functional
| items that they then modify how they want. Most children in
| 1987 were walking Coca-cola billboards who wouldn't be
| caught dead without Guess, Girbaud, or Z Cavaricci jeans.
| It's one of the outlying reasons that most public schools
| have dress codes nowadays.
| andsoitis wrote:
| > everything looks the same (the inevitable endpoint of form
| follows function)
|
| Optimizing for different tradeoffs (i.e. utility) tells us
| that sameness is not the end-state of form follows function.
| pm3003 wrote:
| that's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic.
|
| Wouldn't it be more like Lsroioum's ?
| bmacho wrote:
| > Lcroium's*
|
| > *) that's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic.
|
| If you know Cyrillic, then why not read it as it is written?
| What's the point of bastard translating it to Latin?
| icepat wrote:
| And also incorrect, C produces variant of the S sound. With ^
| not even being a Cyrillic character, but one from the IPA
| symbol set. L is L or l.
|
| That said though, the translation of Cyrillic to Latin is
| commonly done, and a rather opinionated field. As is the
| reverse, Cyrillization.
| dchest wrote:
| L, although not standard in most Cyrillic typography, is a
| valid Cyrillic form of L -- it's how you write L by hand,
| and also how it appears in some typefaces. It's also used
| in Bulgarian Cyrillic.
| icepat wrote:
| My point more here is that l in typeface means something
| very different. That character has a specific meaning,
| the logo is clearly just picking and choosing random
| symbols to look good. That said, my point about C still
| stands.
|
| It is good to know that symbol is acceptable for
| handwritten forms though, I've been struggling to
| differentiate l and p in my handwriting.
| elzbardico wrote:
| I know some Russian and worked with people native from
| Russia, so I would use the opportunity to train my Russian
| language skills chating with them. Using a latin keyboard
| as Russian input is incredibly easy in my opinion. But this
| keyboard is not cyrilic. It is just a mix of symbols for no
| purpose beyond visual appeal.
| icepat wrote:
| Yes, my point exactly.
| dchest wrote:
| That's the thing -- normally at first sight you might
| recognize "I" as mirrored "N". However when you're used
| to reading Cyrillic alphabet, you see it as "I" at first
| and only later realize that it's mangled Latin. Given
| enough similar looking characters, it becomes hard to
| read. This doesn't work all the time, e.g. if a word has
| a single "Ia" ("ya") in place of "R", it's usually easy
| to read. Your milage may vary.
|
| Speaking of keyboards, how the hell do they think this
| product would be sold in countries where there are two
| sets of alphabets on keyboards if it already comes
| prefilled with nonsense characters? :)
| dchest wrote:
| I don't understand what you mean. There are two Cyrillic
| letters (ok, the first one is more Greek with the same
| meaning) in their logo: L and I, the rest are Latin (apart
| from "C" which is pronounced "s", and "Y" which looks like U
| and reads as "u"/"oo"). I provided an attempt of latinization
| of how I read it at on first attempt.
| [deleted]
| pclark wrote:
| Acronym make elite tier men's clothing -- they're anything but
| shallow.
| [deleted]
| mrguyorama wrote:
| "Elite Tier"
|
| Oh, says who?
| FireBeyond wrote:
| This makes no sense. You can absolutely be high end _and_
| superficial. Nothing about the two is mutually exclusive.
| dchest wrote:
| I said nothing about their clothing. I didn't come to their
| fashion field with my knowledge and taste. They came to
| computing, a field I'm passionate about, and produced shallow
| cargo-culted design presented as an actual product.
| pclark wrote:
| [flagged]
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| > Good design is unobtrusive. Products fulfilling a purpose are
| like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of
| art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and
| restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression.
|
| Excuse my French, but fuck Dieter Rams. I certainly understand
| this viewpoint, and I have no problem with folks that adhere to
| it, but my problem is with stating as some sort of axiom, with
| no evidence or reason, that "Products fulfilling a purpose are
| neither decorative objects nor works of art."
|
| Humans have built things that are both functional _and_
| beautiful since culture first existed, and there is nothing
| wrong with designing products with a strong visual aesthetic
| viewpoint. If we all followed Dieter Rams ' silly advice, all
| of our computers would still be boring beige boxes, maybe
| covered in stickers "for the user's self-expression."
|
| Note I say this while agreeing with the latter part of your
| post. I'm not a fan of this particular design - it feels
| kitschy and shallow in the same way that Hollywood "hacker"
| movies show terminals that look like 3D game worlds. But that's
| just my personal opinion, and I don't fault people for feeling
| the exact opposite. I do fault people for saying that you
| shouldn't be allowed to try, and if you do that you are "not
| following principles of good design."
| ethbr1 wrote:
| > _If we all followed Dieter Rams ' silly advice, all of our
| computers would still be boring beige boxes, maybe covered in
| stickers "for the user's self-expression."_
|
| Parent should have quoted the entire set, in which good
| design... - is innovative - makes a
| product useful - is aesthetic - makes a product
| understandable - is unobtrusive - is honest
| - is long-lasting - is thorough down to the last
| detail - is environmentally friendly - is
| minimal
|
| Dieter Rams and the Ulm functionalist school of thought
| differed from the immediately preceding minimalists ("less is
| more") by accepting that design exists and needs to be great
| on multiple planes: e.g. function, aesthetic, psychological,
| etc. (many of which are human and subjective!)
|
| To chisel functionalism in industrial design down to
| something I can fit in a HN comment, my takeaway was that
| their central tenant was 'Have a specific useful vision, that
| values your user above yourself, and optimize everything in
| service to that vision.'
|
| With the understanding that designed objects aren't paintings
| and must have a utility component.
|
| PS: I would also have a long disagreement about fanciful
| graphical representations of computing in visual media as a
| metaphor intended to convey an experience to a computer-
| illiterate audience, versus a kitschy misunderstanding of
| reality. ;-)
|
| Technical advisors and directors aren't idiots. You think
| it's a coincidence that the primary method of interacting
| with a computer in the Star Trek universe is voice-first?
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _I do fault people for saying that you shouldn 't be
| allowed to try..._
|
| Can you remind me of the quote where Dieter Rams says that
| you shouldn't be allowed to try?
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I am responding to the author that, at least in my take,
| appears to be stating that these are "anointed" "good
| design principles", and that if you don't adhere to Rams'
| singular viewpoint, you are by definition engaging in bad
| design.
| dchest wrote:
| The exact words I typed are "If you read these principles
| and reverse them...".
|
| These are Dieter's principles -- a product design
| approach that he believes leads to good design. I pointed
| out that if you apply the opposite of them, you get this
| product.
| throwanem wrote:
| Rams' functionalism is itself a reaction to the ornateness
| for its own sake that characterized a lot of design in
| decades prior. But these days functionalism itself seems to
| be the hegemonic school of thought - consider Apple, for
| example, which hews closely to functionalist precepts by
| deliberate intent, and provides a lot of cues for other
| companies. So a reaction to what was itself once the
| challenger and is now the incumbent seems reasonable.
|
| That said, I agree the aesthetic here under discussion is
| pretty miserable. Ostentatious CNC tool marks might impress
| some, but to me it just says they couldn't be bothered to
| finish manufacturing the thing before they shipped it, and it
| shares with brutalism the trait of being deliberately
| unwelcoming to the senses as a way of demanding attention be
| paid to itself.
| codemac wrote:
| The irony being of course, that huge flat slabs are not
| somehow inherently more "functional" than something with a
| handle, or a screen that doesn't break, or a back that
| doesn't scratch etc.
|
| We just kind of hand-wavy announce that anything boring,
| sleek, or rectangular is "functional". It's not.
| throwanem wrote:
| I didn't say "functional"; I said "functionalist" and
| "functionalism". The latter terms refer to a school of
| industrial design that aspires to its particular
| definition of the former.
|
| I can respect the motivation behind this; I favor
| midcentury modern furniture not least precisely because
| it doesn't insist on itself with an excess of ornament,
| as Rams also inveighs against. But there's a seasonality
| in any new idea; after the first generation for whom it's
| revolutionary comes a second for whom it's the status quo
| ante, and most of those raised with any norm will defend
| and uphold it for its own sake just because it's what
| they know to be "normal", whether or not the idea itself
| or its application still makes sense. Hence the
| canonization of an aesthetic based originally around the
| idea that no aesthetic deserves to be canonized.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| > So a reaction to what was itself once the challenger and
| is now the incumbent seems reasonable.
|
| I agree with everything you've said, but would just point
| out that the pendulum has perhaps started swinging in the
| other direction: a lot of folks in the design world are
| starting to push back against the associated
| minimalist/functionalist aesthetic that has taken over much
| of the world: it can make our built environments feel
| sterile, boring, and robotic.
| throwanem wrote:
| Yeah, I get that, although I'm not sure if
| functionalistic design is only to blame; I'd look also to
| a culture of disposability that inculcates the idea that
| if something isn't or ceases to be fully satisfactory as
| received from the factory, the way to address that is by
| throwing it out and buying something else, rather than
| fixing or modifying it to better suit the need.
|
| Design is meant to exist in conversation with culture,
| and after such a long time developing a society that
| revolves around consumption I think that meaning has been
| lost. "Right to repair" is a partial reaction to this
| also, and valuable as such, but what I really want to see
| is a swing back in the direction of the idea that made
| things can and _should_ be made to last - not as perfect,
| impenetrable monoliths of capital-D Design, but as
| longstanding participants in the lives of the people with
| whom they 're surrounded, and which can be and are
| changed by those people to better meet the needs of the
| day and year and decade.
|
| That isn't something the money power has any incentive to
| want these days, of course; every thing that need not be
| replaced today is a thing for which no replacement will
| be bought or sold today. But this is not a novel problem,
| and it has been solved before.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Exactly. The removal of user modification from culture is
| a big loss.
|
| In the 90s, it was nothing to stitch a patch on a piece
| of clothing that made it uniquely yours, or artfully
| distress your jeans.
|
| Now, people just... don't. Because they can buy them like
| that.
|
| Great for consumerism. Less great for individuality and
| building self-reliance.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| This product isn't any less sterile, boring and robotic.
|
| Just the opposite. It's ostentatiously sterile, boring
| and robotic.
|
| While also being retro, and trying very hard to look like
| something that might have appeared in the original Matrix
| movie - which was 24 years ago.
|
| Visually, it's _unoriginal,_ which is an unforgivable
| design sin - literally a stock laplet with pointless
| metal bits stuck on which will get in the way if you 're
| trying to use it seriously.
|
| It fails as fashion because it looks like a mess, neither
| cool, exotic, nor aspirational.
|
| And it fails as design because while it's - perhaps -
| trying to be ironic, it takes itself too seriously to be
| funny. And it's just not very functional.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| > it shares with brutalism the trait of being deliberately
| unwelcoming to the senses as a way of demanding attention
| be paid to itself.
|
| Interesting, is that what you take away from brutalism? To
| me brutalist design and art is deliberately unwelcoming to
| critique the blandness and safeness of our modern cushioned
| existence, not a puerile drawing of attention. I actually
| enjoy the aesthetic.
|
| But then, disclaimer, I'm a sucker for histrionics and
| theatrical gimmicks.
| throwanem wrote:
| That's a reading of brutalism I haven't encountered
| before. It's not one with which I find myself at all
| favorably impressed, not least because a phrase like "the
| blandness and safeness of our modern cushioned existence"
| suggests a level of engagement with history that,
| speaking charitably, could stand to be much further
| developed. But maybe there's a more detailed treatment of
| this analysis that you could point me to.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I'm sorry, I'm being vague. I didn't mean it like that,
| I'm not talking about why le corbusier's had a love
| affair with concrete. I was thinking about how I hate
| corporate memphis and the design of 95% of UIs, and how I
| wish there was more "nu-brutalist" web/app design to give
| all those bland pastels the finger.
| throwanem wrote:
| Ah, I think I see what you might be driving at. Would it
| be fair to summarize the view as holding that, beyond
| valuable affordances for safety equivalent to handrails
| and warning signs, etc., it does no one any favors to
| attempt to conceal the essential complexity of the
| technology underpinning much of contemporary society?
| HeWhoLurksLate wrote:
| I went to high school in what was essentially an old
| castle-looking building- when they converted it to have
| electricity and stuff, they put in conduit and the like,
| but then painted it to match the walls.
|
| One of my friends did a bit of photoshop to see what it
| would look like if the conduit was instead a dull gray
| and it looked so much better and so distinctive that it
| felt like I had been robbed.
|
| I think there's a reason everybody seems to love the star
| trek engine room
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Dieter Rams's principles apply more to consumer products rather
| than art or fashion.
| [deleted]
| andsoitis wrote:
| > more to consumer products rather than art or fashion
|
| Surely this computer is still ultimately meant for computing
| (in style)?
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Surely their jackets are meant to keep you warm and dry (in
| style)?
| jnwatson wrote:
| It doesn't even apply to consumer products. Thankfully to
| Apple's shareholder, they obviously ignored these rules.
| spread_love wrote:
| > _You'd better know how to touch type. The Cyrillic-ish alphabet
| designed for Acronym by Rudnick is all part of the theme_
|
| Any high res photos of the keys/lettering?
| dustincoates wrote:
| You can see it here: https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-flow/rog-
| flow-z13-acrnm-rmt...
| shrubble wrote:
| So they made the case/housing out of aluminum and water resistant
| cloth but it isn't water resistant?
| CrimsonCape wrote:
| There's some sort of Asian soul (not sure of a good word) in
| these "repurposing" trends. There's noticeable "versions" of
| "camping" in Japan and Korea (also Instagram trends).
| Anecdotally, Japanese have fostered a sort of homeless-aesthetic
| with camping products. Koreans have fostered a sort of retro-
| nostalgia-diorama-and-cooking with camping.
| yelling_cat wrote:
| 24-year-old me would have been Googling where to buy this by the
| time I was halfway through the article. It's not for me any more,
| but Acronym definitely hit what they were going for with this.
| Laptop and phone design used to be a lot less homogeneous than it
| is now, and though our devices are vastly more powerful and
| functional these days they definitely lack a sense of fun. I
| applaud anyone working to bring that back.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| Is there a name for the aesthetic where you simulate something
| being rough, unfinished?
|
| In this case, they simulate a haphazard laptop where the creator
| ran out of same color keys and used whatever they had or they
| simulate not having time to finish the machining of the aluminum
| and leaving it in the roughing stage.
|
| Put another name, what's the name of the very intentional and
| studied "I don't care about looks" aesthetic, where you "don't
| care" in a very precise and fashionable way.
| themoonisachees wrote:
| I guess cyberpunk is the closest. Nasa-punk also has similar
| features, proffering functional edges over a supposed plastic
| cover which would add weight, making it unsuitable for sending
| it to space.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| >Is there a name for the aesthetic where you simulate something
| being rough, unfinished?
|
| Wabi-sabipunk
| lioeters wrote:
| > what's the name of the very intentional and studied "I don't
| care about looks" aesthetic
|
| I've noticed this approach and attitude in various arts, but
| it's hard to put a single word to it. As another commenter
| mentioned, I think wabi-sabi is related, and punk too.
|
| > The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating
| beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" in
| nature. It is prevalent in many forms of Japanese art.
|
| For example in ceramics, they value the crooked, asymmetrical,
| coarse, and cracked. In calligraphy, it's the splash and drip,
| the way the brush runs out of ink and how the line fades out
| near the tail end.
|
| In singing, it's the smokey aged voice that breaks perfectly
| when pushed by emotion. Or other musical instruments, when the
| sound gets dirty because of the physical material being pushed
| to its limits, like an over-driven guitar amp, or a violin
| bowing a string too hard but actually perfectly hitting that
| point intentionally, to get that stank, that nasty, it makes
| you grimace with pleasure.
|
| In theatre they say, "You need to throw it away." Apparently,
| acting can get stiff and unnatural when you try too hard, so
| you need to let go a bit, as if you don't care, to give it room
| to breathe.
|
| I suppose it can be seen in literture too, like "stream of
| consciousness" style, or certain narrative voice that
| tastefully breaks the rules of grammar.
|
| > where you "don't care" in a very precise and fashionable way
|
| That's the trick it seems, that this "don't care" attitude is
| actually very polished, studied, carefully done, paying
| attention down to the details, and then letting it go. It's an
| artful use of "mistakes" and imperfections. Jazz is like that,
| they value the richness of "off" harmonies, dissonance,
| polyrhythms which can sound "wrong" to the unfamiliar but which
| is exactly what the connoiseurs appreciate and enjoy.
| lioeters wrote:
| This book sounds fun to read.
|
| Wabi-Sabi: For Artists, Designers, Poets & Philosophers, by
| Leonard Koren
|
| > It is a beauty of things imperfect, impermanent, and
| incomplete. It is a beauty of things modest and humble.
|
| And a discussion around how it might relate to software:
|
| >> A related term in literature and the arts is "clinamen",
| the act of deliberately breaking a stylistic rule to enhance
| the beauty of an otherwise perfect whole.
|
| http://wiki.c2.com/?WabiSabi
| michaelt wrote:
| _> they simulate a haphazard laptop where the creator ran out
| of same color keys and used whatever they had_
|
| See, I interpreted that as like those gaming keyboards where
| the WASD keys are a different colour - but moreso. With
| mysterious extra keys.
| tokai wrote:
| Punk. Though technically the laptop is techware I guess.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| FYI there's others that use and talk about the Asus ROG flow z13
| acronym on https://www.reddit.com/r/flowz13/
|
| It's too weird for me, and yet I keep considering it as it's one
| of the only tablet PCs currently out with 32GB ram and can run
| Linux without too many headaches.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I love it. If I wouldn't have just bought a Macbook Pro I would
| seriously consider moving to that.
| karmicthreat wrote:
| This is the laptop 90's me would have wanted.
| namdnay wrote:
| Yeah straight out of "Hackers"
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| I really appreciate the hard work of the design team managing to
| get something so daring looking to ship and the using of machine
| marks as a design feature is a lovely touch.
| iakov wrote:
| Looks really cool, the kind of tech fashion that doesn't scream
| "nerd!".
|
| I am a bit torn by they keyboard though - the primary labels are
| certainly not functional, and secondary english labels look like
| last-minute addition with a mismatched font. I wish they went
| either with complete nonsense print, or with a more functional
| one.
| ericmcer wrote:
| The keyboard also looks like a carpal tunnel nightmare for any
| long form computer session.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Whenever I see a picture of a keyboard online I wish they would
| also publish a video of somebody actually using it.
| toyg wrote:
| As someone who turned into a bit of a gadget-fashion-victim over
| the last 15 years, I'm not really digging this. It has a 16-year-
| old, cyberpunk-wannabe, gamer vibe. I guess '90s aesthetic is
| back.
| [deleted]
| vidarh wrote:
| That is pretty much the target demographics. "ROG" is "Republic
| of Gamers".
| bitwize wrote:
| I used to use the term "Lambo vents" to describe gamer-gear
| excrescence. The inspiration was an Asus ROG laptop I
| actually used on a job that had deep, oddly-shaped fan
| exhaust vents that looked like the intake vents on a
| Lamborghini.
|
| Turns out that ROG beast was a rebadged model formerly in
| Asus's Lamborghini co-branded line, intended to compete with
| Acer's Ferrari laptops.
| sp332 wrote:
| That's really Acronym's whole thing.
| DrinkWater wrote:
| There is almost general consensus (in the
| techwear/streetwear/fashion scene) that Acronym is functional,
| but more in the sense of "functional for the sake of aesthetics".
|
| The stuff is really expensive, it is delicate and you have an
| ultra-narrow range of weather conditions where you can actually
| wear it. The laptop in this article is kind of the same.
| namdnay wrote:
| Yeah I'm pretty sure you can get better for less in any
| Decathlon :)
| piva00 wrote:
| I don't feel that Acronym pieces are that delicate, at least
| the jackets and shells I have can take a beating as being worn
| day-over-day. Also don't really agree with ultra-narrow range
| of weather conditions, I wear them during most seasons (from
| mid-fall all the way to late-spring), the exception is summer.
| I also have a Nike ACG jacket that was a collaboration between
| Nike and Acronym, and even that has been really durable, 8
| years going strong and has saved me during a lot of rainy days
| while biking.
| nicholassmith wrote:
| I've got very similar thoughts, I have some ACG & Acronym
| trousers which I rotate through and I don't have any concerns
| about delicacy. The biggest problem is I wear the ACG
| trousers so often the black dye has started to fade, the main
| Acronym ones I think I'll be wearing in a decade still.
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