[HN Gopher] Private equity firm announces a purchase offer with ...
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       Private equity firm announces a purchase offer with the intent to
       delist SUSE
        
       Author : mroche
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2023-08-17 19:40 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.suse.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.suse.com)
        
       | bloopernova wrote:
       | What are the success stories of private equity firms taking over
       | a corporation? (Where success is the products are still made,
       | quality and staffing is maintained at previous levels)
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | Steinway is my go-to example, but it was done on a very
         | specific (hyper-long-term) investment thesis, not a standard
         | "corporate raider" investment. I'm guessing that SUSE is not in
         | the same position.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | None. Private equity's entire business model is to suck the
         | quality and staffing out of the product and make money off the
         | gap between the product getting cheaper and people moving to a
         | viable alternative.
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | That's been my experience twice now personally, and having
           | read numerous other accounts. They'll always tell you after
           | purchase that's not the case, how they see long term value,
           | want to grow it, etc etc.
           | 
           | It's never true - if PE buys your company, run for the hills.
        
           | NotYourLawyer wrote:
           | Private equity already owns 79% of Suse.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Conversely I would answer "high".
           | 
           | PE is basically a parasitic business, designed to suck money
           | out of the purchased company until it collapses. You do this
           | by borrowing a ton of money to purchase the company. Then for
           | the privilege the company pays the buyer a special bonus that
           | conveniently covers its costs (and often more) out of the
           | cash it had on hand when bought. Then the buyer continues to
           | get various payment streams, like guaranteed dividends or all
           | sorts of other obligations, until the company collapses.
           | 
           | Sad to say I'm not exaggerating.
           | 
           | I say "basically" because there are a couple of exceptions.
           | Dell was purchased in a special deal with the founder so that
           | the company actually operates but the founder was enriched in
           | the process.
           | 
           | VC is a branch of private equity (an almost invisible pimple
           | on the PE business TBH) where they don't buy the whole
           | company and hope to make money on the IPO. But it's a small
           | business: there are numerous companies out there with an
           | asset base larger than the entire VC industry.
        
           | akomtu wrote:
           | It's a sign of the last stage of an economic cycle when money
           | is made by creatively destroying value, instead of creating
           | it.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | Well, SUSE after Novell was in a woeful state, EQT got them to
         | where they are right now.
        
           | jzb wrote:
           | To be fair, SUSE _before_ Novell was in a worse state. If I'm
           | not mistaken they were close to missing payroll and has tried
           | to shop themselves to Sun before Novell agreed to buy them.
           | 
           | Evil IBM(TM) threw in $50m to help the deal along and
           | preserve SuSE for its hardware.
           | 
           | Also, it didn't help that SUSE folks and Ximian folks were
           | like oil and water. Novell tried a combo that made sense on
           | paper but there was culture clash.
        
           | amerine wrote:
           | This^^^
           | 
           | I actually think this has the same potential of a "good" PE
           | move as the Dell success.
        
         | shrubble wrote:
         | Dell I think would be one?
         | 
         | Basically you get rid of the quarterly reporting grind and it
         | lets you focus on the business even if certain initiatives are
         | going to depress shorter term results, but pay off over the
         | long term.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ImprovedSilence wrote:
           | that feels a little different because i thought michael dell
           | was a large part of that "private equity".
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | He was, so he structured a special deal that mostly
             | benefited him but also shared a bit with friends who did
             | the rest of the deal.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Dell is a special case because it was the original founder
           | who delisted the stock. Not some Bain Capital type firm that
           | was just buying it to suck the marrow out of the bones before
           | tossing it in the trash.
        
             | aeyes wrote:
             | Silver Lake Partners gave the majority of the capital when
             | they took Dell private, ~$20B of the $25B total
        
           | eric-hu wrote:
           | You just educated me on Michael Dell taking Dell private
           | again. I didn't realize he did so with the backing of PE.
           | 
           | https://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2013/10/30/you-.
           | ..
        
         | emmett wrote:
         | Safeway seems to be run pretty well, after being taken private
         | by PE in the 80s.
         | 
         | Warren Buffet runs Berkshire Hathaway which is acts as a PE
         | firm. Here's a list of everything they own and have owned for
         | decades: https://finmasters.com/berkshire-hathaway-
         | subsidiaries/#cons...
         | 
         | There are plenty of other examples.
         | 
         | PE is just "ownership not through the public stock markets"
         | which is like...the default, actually.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Safeway lost a ton of money getting tangled up with Theranos
           | 10 years ago, and the following year was bought by Cerberus
           | (then owner of Albertsons).
           | 
           | http://www.wsj.com/articles/safeway-theranos-split-
           | after-350...
           | 
           | Albertsons (including Safeway) was IPO'd in Jun 2020, and now
           | is set to be bought by Kroger.
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | lol. This does not happen, at least not intentionally. PE
         | takeovers are solely about turning companies with a relatively
         | stable revenue stream into a packageable financial product.
         | Huge cuts will be made to staff, support, and R&D to get
         | expenses to a specific level, and large amounts of debt will be
         | taken on under the company's name, to deliver a specific ROI to
         | the PE investors over a relatively short term window of four to
         | five years, all under the assumption that the company will be
         | able to coast for that time on its previous success, after
         | which point it can be sold for IP, trademarks, and any physical
         | plant, or just allowed to go bankrupt under the unsustainable
         | debt load and lack of investment.
         | 
         | That's the _purpose_ of PE firms. They accept pre-investment in
         | this sort of scheme, and do this with several companies at once
         | over a 5-7 year total period, taking a slice of the revenue
         | with no capital risk of their own, and the investors get a good
         | 5-7 years of 12-18% ROI. The companies are trash at the end of
         | the cycle but hey, that 's capitalism.
         | 
         | Source: I was "lucky" enough to work for a tech startup through
         | its IPO period after which it was acquired by PE, and exactly
         | the above happened. We had the opportunity to "buy in" to the
         | investment cycle with our own money, and so they had a pretty
         | detailed presentation about exactly how this all works. I was
         | somewhat surprised by how honest they were willing to be with
         | the employees (although it did take a little bit of reading
         | between the lines).
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | > I was somewhat surprised by how honest they were willing to
           | be with the employees
           | 
           | Since your company had IPOed the SEC required them to be
           | honest with anyone interested in buying in.
        
         | Havoc wrote:
         | You don't hear from them.
         | 
         | Think about it - you're having beers with a friend and he goes
         | "so the company got bought out and then nothing changed".
         | _blank stares as everyone waits for the point / rest of story_
         | 
         | You hear only of the dramatic ones. Bit like news is nearly
         | entirely bad - bad news sells.
         | 
         | People forget that PE firms are buying equity. If the company
         | prospers they get the upside. Contrary to popular hn belief
         | destroying the thing you just paid a lot of money for is not
         | standard game plan.
         | 
         | >Where success is the products are still made, quality and
         | staffing is maintained
         | 
         | The world you describe is not the world we live in. Shareholder
         | objectives - PE or otherwise - is to maximize value. It's not
         | an artisanal hobby where highest possible quality product is
         | the end goal.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | There are many such companies (otherwise PE as a concept would
         | eventually die out as the supply of fools becomes exhausted).
         | But just one example: Gibson.
        
       | username332211 wrote:
       | Suse IPOd in 2021 at 30EUR/share. Now they are buying it back at
       | 16.
       | 
       | I think we should thank everyone who bought shares at the IPO for
       | their charitable contribution to open source software.
        
       | r0ckarong wrote:
       | And thus the squeeze cycle can begin anew. Brauckmann made his
       | money, DiDonato made her money, the EQT guys made their money.
       | Time to share this cake with more ants.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | It's the same EQT firm buying them back.
        
       | yawaramin wrote:
       | So...uh...after all that drama from SuSE about how 'IBM'
       | destroyed RHEL after acquiring Red Hat, they turn around and get
       | acquired by the nearest bidder. That's hilarious. Nowadays I
       | often compare this kind of hypocrisy to the 'Avengers: Age of
       | Ultron' scene where Strucker shouts 'No surrender!' and riles up
       | his henchmen, then immediately turns to his second-in-command and
       | says, 'I am going to surrender'.
        
         | username332211 wrote:
         | Can you revise your statement when you read the second
         | paragraph of the press release?
        
           | yawaramin wrote:
           | Did SuSE bother to read the GPL license before they made
           | their statements about RHEL?
        
             | username332211 wrote:
             | What does that have to do with you pontificating on events
             | that aren't actually happening?
        
               | yawaramin wrote:
               | Bingo.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | The company is already 79% owned by the acquirer. Who exactly
         | do you think should be slamming on the brakes here?
        
       | zeruch wrote:
       | Private Equity needs to be regulated into oblivion.
        
       | whizzter wrote:
       | While fears of PE is quite well founded in many cases, EQT might
       | be one group that might actually have proper long term interests.
       | 
       | Ownership of EQT goes up to Investor and the Swedish Wallenberg
       | family, they're the same people that among other things has held
       | big stakes in Ericsson, Astra Zeneca (The British covid
       | vaccine),etc over 90 years by now.
        
       | doctoboggan wrote:
       | Recently I've been getting more and more into the Rancher
       | ecosystem as they always have some offering that meets my needs
       | and I can trust it will interop well enough.
       | 
       | I really hope that this does not affect the future of Rancher.
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | RKE is Apache licensed, I think it has a long future.
        
           | janosdebugs wrote:
           | The license matters little if SuSE is the one footing the
           | bill for developing it.
        
       | CharlesW wrote:
       | HN SmartFriends(tm), what does this mean? What's the risk for
       | companies which are highly invested in SUSE?
        
         | JonChesterfield wrote:
         | The PE firm sees a path to profit by changing things about
         | SUSE. This might be fine - e.g. they can write off the existing
         | debt to themselves in order to strengthen the company finances.
         | If the exit plan is some variant on improving the company and
         | selling it on, could be good all round.
         | 
         | The trepidation is that PE firms are also a bit prone to asset
         | stripping and discarding the remaining carcass of the
         | organisation, in which case this marks the beginning of the end
         | of SUSE.
         | 
         | I've no idea how to tell which path is more likely or even
         | which is their current intent though.
        
         | mamonster wrote:
         | There are usually 2 plays tech PE does:
         | 
         | 1)Expedited vendor lock-in: Figure out who is locked into the
         | software, make the software maximally shitty/maximally costly
         | so that these people would still not switch and then make money
         | off the cost savings/higher prices and hope to make up
         | investment.
         | 
         | 2)Off market prep for trade sale: SUSE could be interesting for
         | someone to acquire but a competitor/strategic buyer can't
         | afford to buy the company and do the reorgs needed itself as it
         | would tank the share price too much. The PE firm buys it, does
         | the reorg off market and then does a trade sale of a reorged
         | company to the buyer, but only now SUSE is way better as an
         | acquisition target.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | EQT already owned the majority of SUSE, I doubt this will
         | change anything.
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | Not again..... Edit: it's the same EQT firm that made the SUSE
       | IPO, and owned the majority of it since 2018.
        
       | chucky_z wrote:
       | I've never seen anything good come out of PE delisting like this.
       | Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
        
         | hkatx wrote:
         | X formerly twitter was one of the biggest LBO in history which
         | is typically the process PE companies acquire companies as
         | well. Priority is to increase margin, because the leverage
         | comes from loan and debt servicing & principal repayment are
         | pretty big sums. Its done capex reduction. Easiest way to do it
         | is to reduce labor cost. X went from >7000 to ~1500(I may be
         | off on numbers) Another is to increase revenue, so twitter
         | blue(a subscription) and increasing incentives to be on twitter
         | blue(no ads, potential account growth because you are shown up
         | on follow list, no or less throttle on number of posts in
         | feed).
        
           | heylook wrote:
           | Sir, this is a Wendy's.
        
       | subtextminer wrote:
       | Yet another reason to move to Debian.
       | 
       | While in many ways not comparable to what's happened with Redhat,
       | with Suse turning to the dark side one wonders how much longer
       | Canonical will last before doing something similar.
       | 
       | Make no doubt about it, private equity is all about short term
       | shareholder returns. That's not a bad things in principle but if
       | you don't want to wake up yet again with your distro having the
       | rug pulled out from under it, switch to Debian.
        
         | jzb wrote:
         | If you consider Red Hat "on the dark side" but not Canonical,
         | I'm curious how you're defining dark side.
        
           | jkaplowitz wrote:
           | I presume their definition is "owned by some huge and/or evil
           | parent corp", together with viewing IBM and private equity
           | firms as each having one or both of those attributes.
           | 
           | I've seen many valid criticisms of Canonical, but huge
           | doesn't seem applicable to them and evil seems to go beyond
           | what's fair for their flaws. As for their owner, again, few
           | would place Mark Shuttleworth in the same category as either
           | IBM or private equity firms, other than probably having had a
           | peak (though not current) net worth of over $1 billion.
        
         | username332211 wrote:
         | SUSE S.A. has been owned by this very same private equity
         | company since 2018. In 2021 one fifth of the outstanding shares
         | were offered to investors at the Frankfurt Stock exchange.Now
         | that fifth is being acquired by the same private equity
         | company.
         | 
         | If there was any turn "to the dark side", surely it must have
         | happened 5 years ago, not today, right?
         | 
         | Edit: Apparently time flies faster when you're bad at math.
        
           | jolux wrote:
           | I really hope 2018 wasn't seven years ago.
        
         | jkaplowitz wrote:
         | Debian is great indeed (I am a a Debian developer myself
         | although rather inactive) - but today's news isn't much of a
         | change in whether SUSE is or isn't on any definition of the
         | dark side.
         | 
         | Why do I say that? Simply, as per the linked announcement
         | itself, this takeover offer is by the current majority
         | shareholder who already owns 79% of the company. They can
         | already win any shareholder vote they want to win. They already
         | control SUSE.
         | 
         | Most of what this will do is two things: one, pay the current
         | minority shareholders of SUSE 67% more than their shares are
         | worth on the open market, and remove the quarterly earnings
         | pressures of the German equivalent of Wall Street from SUSE
         | management, at least unless and until any future IPO or a sale
         | to another public company. Not obvious that this transaction
         | makes anything worse than it already was.
         | 
         | There could be a less obvious difference: SUSE currently has a
         | German corporate structure with very strong worker rights
         | including participating alongside management on the supervisory
         | board. If they get rid of the German entity and keep only a
         | Luxembourg entity, that may no longer apply, though German
         | labour law certainly still would for employers based in
         | Germany. I'm not an expert on any differences between German
         | and Luxembourg worker governance participation rights, and in
         | this paragraph I'm more raising a question than asserting
         | anything.
        
           | znpy wrote:
           | > If they get rid of the German entity and keep only a
           | Luxembourg entity, that may no longer apply
           | 
           | If that was the case, I'd bet 10$ that the german government
           | would intervene and block that. Germany is all for free
           | market until its their stuff in sale.
        
       | mkl95 wrote:
       | > SUSE's Management Board and Supervisory Board support the
       | strategic opportunity from delisting of the company as it will
       | allow SUSE to focus fully on its operational priorities and
       | execution of its long-term strategy
       | 
       | What does this mean? Is their current status adding some
       | significant overhead that would go away by going private?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Going private means you don't have to answer to shareholders
         | and their short term demands, which _may_ be a good thing for a
         | company. Of course it would be naive to assume that the private
         | equity firm that bought it is in it for the good of the
         | community rather than pure profit.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | Shareholder pressure? Maybe because of their recent goodwill
         | moves against Red hat?
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | Shareholder pressure is also the need to make the value of
           | the share grow, with any mean, or shareholders will buy
           | something else and the value of the company will go down, no
           | more deals paid with shares, no bonuses for the CEO, etc. A
           | private company might attract different managers and pursue
           | different goals. However Finance and Industry usually don't
           | go along well. Finance eats industries to make profits.
        
         | pyrophane wrote:
         | Probably that as a private company it would be easier for them
         | to do things that would have negative short term impact on
         | revenue but be better for the company in the long term.
        
         | Ensorceled wrote:
         | SOX and other SEC regulatory constraints and costs. Disclosure
         | rules. Shareholder accountability for strategic decisions.
         | Stricter accounting and audit requirements. Often your board
         | has representatives of large shareholders, who have their own
         | considerations and limitations, as opposed to owners.
        
       | greatNespresso wrote:
       | Ok naive question but SUSE was the first Linux distro I used 15
       | years ago and never touched it again. For those of HN that use it
       | today, what's their strength compared to RHEL or Ubuntu in the
       | enterprise world?
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Just recently I was reading about OpenSuse thimbleweed rolling
         | release. I read a lot of Great things about it, everyone said
         | it was great.
         | 
         | Then I saw a couple of videos and realized its UI (of their
         | control center) is stuck in the 90s and it has several rough
         | edges (like when installing it, I wont show you a list of WiFi
         | access points, but ask you to manually enter the name of your
         | AP and the encryption method... in 2023).
         | 
         | I decided to keep Mint. So far it's been the best distros in
         | terms of "not having to bother" so much. I use it as my daily
         | dev environment.
        
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