[HN Gopher] Casio G-Shock time sync radio
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Casio G-Shock time sync radio
Author : joos3
Score : 78 points
Date : 2023-08-16 19:13 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (gshock.casio.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (gshock.casio.com)
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| I inherited one of these Casio Waveceptor watches from my father.
|
| It routinely will set itself to a totally random time far into
| the past/future. I've wondered if maybe contemporary wireless
| devices interfere with the time sync radio. Another possible
| factor is the watch itself is ~20 years old.
| tomduncalf wrote:
| Maybe Casio are using a Windows server heh
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37151220)
| ricc wrote:
| Maybe it just needs a battery replacement?
| creeble wrote:
| It's not totally uncommon. I have a Waveceptor and several
| other clocks that use WWVB.
|
| One works perfectly, most of the others are usually good, one
| gets off a couple of times a year (so therefore useless), and
| my Waveceptor has gone nuts maybe a couple of times.
|
| It seems to be all about signal strength (and a little bit
| about battery strength).
|
| I see at least one of those watches has GPS reception.
| nabla9 wrote:
| I have Casio GW-M5600. It's a perfect watch.
|
| - Looks like classic G-Shock.
|
| - shows correct time always (time sync)
|
| - never runs out of battery (solar charging).
| tcmb wrote:
| Cool to have this multiband technology, but what about the
| southern hemisphere? Assuming they have time signal transmitters,
| too: Do watch manufacturers have different SKUs that can receive
| signals in the southern hemisphere? Is it possible to have a
| watch that receives these signals truly worldwide?
| psychphysic wrote:
| These days you'd probably use GPS/GLONASS etc.
| firewolf34 wrote:
| Yes, as others have stated this is an old technology. I don't
| really understand why this is not more common in the modern day.
| it's not really that expensive to implement and they did it with
| analog chips back in the day...
|
| Why do we have to set the time on our clock radios or on our
| microwaves or whatever? Why don't they just always use this Tech.
| I don't understand. All you have to do is allow people to store
| an offset for the time zone, and RTC issues are a thing of the
| past.
| gm3dmo wrote:
| There is already a time signal in the electrical grid:
|
| https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/info/time-synchroniza...
|
| > Why don't they just always use this Tech. I don't understand.
|
| The bit's that get your oven to work don't need the time.
| Adding the bits for this is a cost and a thing that can fail
| because it can't receive the radio signal that equals a Dead on
| Arrival for your oven and a service call at least. When it's on
| a watch it's likely near your wrist which is likely near a
| window which likely means it can get the radio signal to sync.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Your citation is about using GPS as reference for electrical
| grid operations/control purposes (very common if your use
| case can rely on GPS versus local high precision time sources
| such as a cesium clock). If you were referring to using
| electrical grid frequency for time keeping, that is a
| suboptimal solution due to frequency stability nuance.
|
| https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/GPS-
| PNT...
|
| https://phys.org/news/2011-06-power-grid-disrupt-clocks.html
|
| https://medium.com/@bramus/grid-time-or-why-are-clocks-in-
| eu...
|
| https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2018/03/06/press-release-
| continui...
|
| https://www.nist.gov/publications/time-and-frequency-
| electri... ("Due to the efforts of Henry Warren, inventor of
| the Telechron electric clock, electric power companies have
| been a source of time and frequency reference for the public
| for over a hundred years. However, advances in technology and
| changes in the electric power industry have generated a
| movement within the industry to end the time-reference
| service.")
| [deleted]
| psychphysic wrote:
| It's easy enough to implement decoding and there are packaged
| antenna (ferrite rod and coil) and conditioner (auto gain
| amplifier with Schmitt trigger output).
| V__ wrote:
| Is it really not common? I don't thing I have seen a digital
| clock or modern wall clock which doesn't have it. I think my
| Microwave has it too. Onky my oven doesn't. Is it maybe more
| common in Europe?
| freetime2 wrote:
| I use a Phillips Smart Sleep alarm clock that doesn't support
| this, despite being pretty expensive at around $100. I'm not
| even sure if the higher end model which costs twice as much
| and claims to be "connected" supports this feature.
| pjerem wrote:
| I'm also in Europe (France) and during my entire life I never
| owned a single appliance with automatic time configuration
| (except for anything iot of course).
|
| I have seen this automatic radio thing once in a very old
| alarm clock owned by my grandfather but that was probably in
| the end of the 90s.
| clusmore wrote:
| Note that an integer offset is insufficient. For example,
| Australian Central Standard time is +9:30 and Australian
| Central Western Standard Time is +8:45. I have a Seiko watch
| with a similar feature to this and I don't think it would work
| well in either of these timezones.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| And daylight savings?
| chriscjcj wrote:
| The time code transmitted by WWVB includes two bits to
| express the state of Daylight Saving Time. 0
| = Standard Time 1 = DST Ending 2 = DST in effect
| 3 = DST Beginning
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB#/media/File:WWVB_time_cod.
| ..
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB
| creeble wrote:
| which also means that it is one more bit to _set_ on the
| receiver (in addition to time zone).
|
| I have many clocks with WWVB time. Many miss signals and
| become off, one even gets an error once in a while and has
| the time many hours off. Not all decoders are the same
| apparently.
| ricc wrote:
| Radio syncing is perfect for forgetting about setting clocks
| for DST on/off because the sync automatically does that for
| you.
| 0cVlTeIATBs wrote:
| Reminds me of the clock I bought which changed MST/MDT
| automatically, which forced me to adjust it twice a year
| unlike like all my other clocks, because I lived in
| Arizona.
| supportengineer wrote:
| Somehow my Casio G-Shock Rangeman cannot do this correctly
| graypegg wrote:
| It does feel like something that's easy to cut from a bill of
| materials though, nothing else in the microwave relies on the
| time being accurate.
|
| Probably not expensive to implement, but if you're building a
| lot of them, I imagine the ~4cents per unit (maybe more, just
| guessing) adds up fast.
| bpye wrote:
| Whilst it maybe doesn't need to be accurate, I have had an
| oven that wouldn't turn on if you didn't set the time...
| graypegg wrote:
| Haha, oh wow that sucks. I'm sure most of those units are
| all set to 12:00AM by mashing the OK button after every
| power outage.
| rwky wrote:
| The last few ovens we've had do that too. I assume it's
| something to do with the delayed start function which I
| never use...
| RealityVoid wrote:
| I would gladly pay 4 cents more just to never have to figure
| out how to set the time on my oven or microwave ever again.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > nothing else in the microwave relies on the time being
| accurate.
|
| The real question is why does your microwave gives time in
| the first place. Sounds like they had a display and didn't
| know what to show on it while the microwave wasn't actively
| used, I'd say drop the clock altogether
| graypegg wrote:
| Yeah honestly! But, if I had to guess, it's probably built
| into whatever "microwave controller" SOC is mass
| manufactured.
|
| The clock was an upsell long ago, but now that the whole
| device is a commodity product, and the clock is using parts
| already in the machine, I guess it's just not worth
| removing.
| bayindirh wrote:
| My professor is a materials/mechanical engineer and in
| contact with many auto companies. He told me of the following
| dialogue: Prof: Why did you stopped adding
| passenger side handles? How much one cost? CarGuy:
| Around EUR1.50 Prof: That's not much? CarGuy:
| A new car leaves the factory every 60 seconds. Prof:
| Oh.
|
| For the lazy, that's EUR2,160/Day, EUR64,800/Month,
| EUR777,600/year.
| jader201 wrote:
| I guess, but still, these seemingly large numbers are still
| a minute percentage (e.g. probably 0.00001%) of overall
| costs/revenue that are relatively way, way more.
|
| I would understand manufacturing pain, and the ROI just
| doesn't justify it. But saying that it's solely to do with
| costs doesn't line up, IMO.
| bayindirh wrote:
| For auto industry, that's big money. VW creates small
| inserts and adds them to their motor covers for Seat and
| Skoda. If you pry that logo, there's a molded VW logo on
| that plastic engine noise cover.
|
| Stellantis shares tons of parts and software. Peugeot
| 2008 and Opel Mokka is essentially the same car. They
| share the same shifter, electronics and software stack
| sans the skin applied to displays and LCD geometry. Even
| 3008 has the same hardware with the same software. Heck,
| even the "lane hold" button is exactly the same one in
| all three cars. Same for parking brake switch, down to
| the blinking pattern of indicator LED. I bet all three
| use the same 8 gear auto gearbox, with different ratio
| sets, too.
|
| After Fiat bought Chrysler, they started to use the same
| steering wheel in Dodge Charger and Fiat Tipo. Newer
| Fiats come with Mopar brakes and fluid subsystems
| (steering, cooling, etc.)
|
| Key fobs are even funnier. In practice, every company
| uses the same key fob. A Lamborghini has the same fob
| with a VW Polo, sans the logo. Same for Stellantis group
| cars.
|
| When you start to notice "chassis sharing" in commercial
| market vehicles, it stops being funny and starts to
| become ridiculous.
| pram wrote:
| It also sometimes works out in your favor, especially for
| VW, since theres Audi and Porsche parts you can just slap
| on your GTI.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I know a guy who installed TT's magnetic active shocks to
| a Golf and got terrific results.
|
| However, I'd rather have a boring car which I don't need
| to constantly maintain instead of an exciting one which
| needs a tune-up every weekend but that's just me.
|
| It's not that I can't. It's rather I won't.
| graypegg wrote:
| Why wouldn't cost be the sole or most important reason
| for cutting a non-safety, non-regulated feature?
|
| 700k in advertising would make a much bigger impact on
| revenue than 700k on door handles; unless people are that
| passionate about door handles that they go somewhere
| else.
|
| Even if your current advertising budget is orders of
| magnitude larger, the force multiplier on investing in
| advertising is bigger than the door handle multiplier. So
| you're just burning money.
|
| Of course that's all very cynical. Make the effort to
| reward companies that build the best product they can.
| lN5uhiNxWPBi wrote:
| I assume it can be hard to judge impact down the line. A
| lot of car manufacturers cut out physical buttons, which
| led for the current generation of horrible interfaces
| where everything is touch screen and you can't even get a
| simple rotary knob for the volume.
|
| My understanding is that this is now going back and car
| manufacturers are reverting this decision.
|
| So yeah, why not spend the saved money on advertising? I
| don't know the complexity of such decisions. There are
| some manufacturers that do take a stand not to cut as
| many corners. Over time they can become known for their
| design. Apple (at least until the mid 2010s) I'd say was
| one such company.
|
| By the way, as was pointed out, PS700k seems negligible
| to companies that size for something that might
| potentially torpedo a car if enough people hate that part
| and refuse to buy it based on those grounds. But I'm not
| an expert.
| graypegg wrote:
| Yeah that's a good point. I guess in this case, there's
| people whose job it is to figure out the value to the
| company of any decision that they make.
|
| Sometimes they might think the higher end of the market
| is worth dominating by making the best product possible.
|
| Other times that might be overkill.
|
| It's all very dependant on the company. Glad I don't have
| to make those decisions! I just pretend to understand
| them on the internet heheh
| ralferoo wrote:
| > CarGuy: Around EUR1.50
|
| > I guess, but still, these seemingly large numbers are
| still a minute percentage (e.g. probably 0.00001%) of
| overall costs/revenue that are relatively way, way more.
|
| Do you realise that your estimate, of EUR1.50 per car
| being 0.00001% of the costs, puts the manufacturing cost
| of a car at EUR15m?
| ghusto wrote:
| EUR777,600/year seems negligible for the industry.
| bayindirh wrote:
| That's only one handle. The part sharing between "sister"
| brands is beyond ridiculous. It adds up.
| [deleted]
| rcpt wrote:
| Now ask CarGuy about dealer markups
| bayindirh wrote:
| In our country, dealers are not free to set their own
| prices like in the U.S. There's an official pricing list
| in the brand's website.
| topynate wrote:
| I spend most of the time out of range, but the technology is
| simple and robust enough that you can use headphones or a phone
| speaker as a very, very short-range transmitter. You hardly need
| to sync every day, either. I've had most success with
| https://einoko.github.io/DCF77.js/
| tamimio wrote:
| That's very cool tool, thanks for sharing that
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| not working in SEA, though :/ there are some tricks with apps
| synthesizing a electromagnetic radio signal via speaker activity
| but i never got this to work.
| friend_and_foe wrote:
| I'm curious why we don't just use GPS's UTC time broadcast to set
| time? I understand that using GPS to track satellites and find
| location is power hungry, but I can't imagine that simply
| receiving a time and setting a clock is any more power hungry
| than this system.
| JCM9 wrote:
| GPS signals are much higher frequency and very low power and
| thus don't work indoors. These HF time signals are way more
| powerful and can be detected inside buildings.
| psychphysic wrote:
| If you're interested in buying a Casio watch that does this they
| tend to be called Waveceptor, I'd recommend looking at one that's
| also solar powered (tough solar).
| rwmj wrote:
| Oceanus S100 is absolutely brilliant. Solar powered, radio time
| sync, titanium (so incredibly lightweight), waterproof, and
| looks like a dress watch. The only downside is they are only
| sold in Japan so you have to import them.
| ekam wrote:
| The T200 is a great option too- you sacrifice the titanium
| for stainless steel but get more flexibility as the strap is
| removable (which IMO makes it more versatile). Beautiful dial
| too. I own one and I've been looking for watches with similar
| tinted crystal but haven't been able to find any that do it
| nearly as well.
| symlinkk wrote:
| 42mm is huge though
| rwmj wrote:
| It really doesn't feel large, I think because it's so slim
| (it's quartz) and light.
| mewse-hn wrote:
| There's a Lineage LCW-M100TSE that should be a bit cheaper -
| titanium, sapphire crystal, radio sync. Also JDM though.
| rwmj wrote:
| The ani-digital display is not as elegant (IMHO of course!)
| mhandley wrote:
| I have this watch and I love it. It's incredibly light due
| to titanium case and strap, and very tough with sapphire
| glass. Solar powered, so never needs the battery changing,
| and always accurate due to the radio receiver. And I like
| that it looks good without being pretentious, or a display
| of wealth. It's just a Casio, but those who know, know.
| ricc wrote:
| Or a G-Shock which uses the keyword "Multiband 6".
| itisit wrote:
| I'd be curious to see a proper signal map for this service. I've
| been the proud owner of a Casio Oceanus for a little over a year
| now. I can count on one hand the number of times the watch has
| synchronized via radio.
| ricc wrote:
| Yeah, the signal for this is rather weak so you would need to
| place your watch at least on a window's line of sight or, if it
| still doesn't work, right next to a window.
| tjohns wrote:
| Here you go: https://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvbcoverage.htm
|
| Keep in mind antenna placement matters with these clocks.
| Different parts of the room can have very different signal
| strengths. Away from other electronics and near a window is all
| better.
| Animats wrote:
| Great technology, works fine, at least 10-20 years old now.
| _joel wrote:
| Time over radio has been a thing since 1927!
|
| "A radio station at Rugby was first operated by the Post Office
| from 1926, with the call-sign GBR. From 19 December 1927, it
| broadcast a 15.8 kHz time signal from the Royal Observatory
| which could be received worldwide. It consisted of 306 pulses
| in the five minutes up to and including 10:00 and 18:00 GMT,
| with a longer pulse at the start of each minute. "
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_from_NPL_(MSF)
| TrianguloY wrote:
| I have an alarm clock with this system (or I think it's this,
| it's from Oregon Scientific) and it has this "automatic clock
| sync" feature.
|
| I have it disabled. Once it was set to a random time, and I lost
| an important meeting because the alarm didn't ring at the correct
| time. The usual time doesn't deviate more than a second or so
| every few years, when I need to change the batteries and set it
| again so it's useless.
|
| This automatic feature would be perfect if it acted as a "press
| this button to setup" or at startup, but the issue is that the
| messages are sent very sporadically so you either need to wait
| almost a full day for it to sync (clocks are not always
| listening, so it needs to coincide the "push" and the "listen")
| or set it manually.
| gm3dmo wrote:
| Casio are the best watches I've ever owned. Radio sync on a watch
| is awesome for creating "drop the mic" moments showing how far
| out the clocks are on a multi-million dollar machine in a
| datacenter despite how much the big consultancy thinks they are
| synced to UTP via "atomic clocks".
| vlachen wrote:
| I wore a G-Shock Wavecepter while serving in the U.S. Marine
| Corps. I recall that on both of my shipboard deployments (2004
| and 2006) I was very excited to have my watch set time
| automatically. It indicated that I was finally nearing the U.S.
| East Coast. It helped to be an aircraft mechanic on night crew,
| as I was usually on the flight deck when it tried to set time.
| deltarholamda wrote:
| >It indicated that I was finally nearing the U.S. East Coast.
|
| There is a plot device for a Tom Clancy novel in this little
| factoid.
| strangattractor wrote:
| Have solar atomic version. Don't wear it much these days.
| Mostly when I travel. Been on my dresser 2 years collecting
| dust but gets some sun. Picked it up the other day for a
| camping trip. It was both charged and had the correct date and
| time.
| ajhurliman wrote:
| I have a wall clock that syncs with an atomic clock in Colorado,
| which was cool at first but I live in Arizona now which doesn't
| observe daylight savings so it's often wrong by an hour now.
| bpye wrote:
| All you need is a DIP switch or something on the back to let
| you set the offset.
| verandaguy wrote:
| Clearly the solution is to get Arizona to observe daylight
| savings!
| ajhurliman wrote:
| Or mount another hour hand on it that always tracks an hour
| ahead of the existing one with a label on which dates it's
| applicable during. That's a clean solution right?
| johndavidback wrote:
| Yes but perhaps it reminds you of fond memories? Or just makes
| life a little more interesting - "Hey, dentist, sorry I'm an
| hour late!"
| Grazester wrote:
| I have a citizen watch with this. Tends to keep time just fine.
| Though so did all my other quartz watches until the battery dies
| ricc wrote:
| Radio syncing is perfect for those who require accuracy down to
| the second.
| jiehong wrote:
| Got a Pro-Trek PRW-30, and this works flawlessly.
|
| It syncs almost every night, and takes into account DST just
| fine.
| p1mrx wrote:
| I wish Casio would bring back the WV-300 form factor:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t79GeZkTJLY
|
| The closest modern replacement is the GMW-B5000, but that's quite
| large and expensive compared to what they were doing in 2008.
| tcmb wrote:
| They misspelled Mainflingen, where the German DCF77 transmitter
| is located, as "Mineflingen", which is basically spelled
| phonetically (for English speakers).
| rwmj wrote:
| The website probably had a round trip through katakana which
| would explain phonetic spellings.
| joeig wrote:
| Back in school, we learned how basic binary protocols work using
| DCF77 as an example. We decoded it on a piece of paper. Good old
| times.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Related thread with local transmitters of time signal:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27769403
|
| https://github.com/hzeller/txtempus (A DCF77, WWVB, JJY and MSF
| clock LF-band signal transmitter using the Raspberry Pi)
|
| ios and mac app: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/49109/pips-a-
| radio-time-s...
|
| (time sync over rf is super cool; I would be super interested if
| anyone has links to field surveys of time signal availability,
| potential gaps in coverage, and maps of said data.
| gregsadetsky wrote:
| Thanks for those references! I wanted to see what an SDR radio
| time signal detector would look like, and looking for "DCF77
| sdr python" pointed me in the right direction -> [0] and [1]
|
| A bit unrelated question: there are many web SDRs that let you
| listen to radio frequencies/stations such as [2]. Are there web
| / Emscripten SDR decoders that run in-browser? i.e. a full
| browser listening + decoding experience? For example, decoding
| a DCF77 time signal, or even just morse code?
|
| [0] https://www.nist.gov/time-distribution/radio-station-
| wwv/wwv...
|
| [1]
| https://github.com/henningM1r/gr_DCF77_Receiver/tree/main/py...
|
| [2] http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
| jowood wrote:
| Android app
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.houryo.dcf7...
| jcul wrote:
| Good read on the accuracy of radio controlled clocks:
| https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/2429.pdf
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(page generated 2023-08-16 23:01 UTC)