[HN Gopher] OpenAI acquires Global Illumination
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       OpenAI acquires Global Illumination
        
       Author : davidbarker
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2023-08-16 17:06 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (openai.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (openai.com)
        
       | liminal wrote:
       | Reinforcement learning with better graphics?
        
       | gtwomd wrote:
       | I guess no one else is allowed to have indirect lighting anymore
       | (/s)
       | 
       | As someone not well versed in how startups work, why do they need
       | to acquire the entire company to have the team work for them, as
       | opposed to negotiating with the employees individually? Is it
       | essentially a lump sum payment to stop what they were currently
       | working on.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | a quick overview of the startup economy
         | 
         | 1) have an idea, negotiate seed funding. Someone will give you
         | a bunch of money to make an MVP. the "angel" or "seeder" will
         | exchange money for a percentage of the company. They will have
         | a say in how its run
         | 
         | 2) grow the company according to the metrics that make you look
         | valuable (market share is normally the common one)
         | 
         | 3) growing costs money, so raise a "series a" same deal as
         | before, either seeder/angels are bought out, or their share of
         | the company is diluted in exchange for more monoey from the
         | funders, typically a VC.
         | 
         | 4) repeat until either bankrupt, IPO, Profitable, or boughtout.
         | 
         | Now. As an early employee, you are given shares in the company.
         | Typically <1%. the more rounds you have, the more diluted that
         | percentage gets.
         | 
         | when the company is bought out, your shares are exchanged for a
         | price. however as you didn't put the money in, you are a way
         | down the pecking order for getting the cash. Not only this, but
         | a "buyout" price is rarely the headline price. For example
         | CTRL-Labs[1] was "bought out" for $500 mill. However thats not
         | the price they paid for the company. thats the price paid for
         | the company and the "golden handcuffs" to keep employees.
         | 
         | of that 500mill some of is say <75m will go to physically buy
         | the company, the rest will go towards golden handcuffs to keep
         | the employees working. After all, if you give most of the
         | company >$2m upfront, they'll say "work for facebook? fuck
         | that, I'm retiring"
         | 
         | So to combat that, you'll get your 0.0001% of $75m, then
         | offered a contract with the new company that will give you
         | shares that will be released to you gradually after a certain
         | cool off period, say one year (Fb and google give you 6.25%
         | every 3 months.) That means that to get your $2m you need to
         | work for the new company for four years.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-acquired-brain-
         | comp...
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > As someone not well versed in how startups work, why do they
         | need to acquire the entire company to have the team work for
         | them, as opposed to negotiating with the employees
         | individually?
         | 
         | Because otherwise, the team would have the option of continuing
         | their current employment.
         | 
         | Take away the alternative they are demonstrably already
         | choosing over you, and you have a better chance of getting and
         | keeping them.
        
           | proser wrote:
           | It also usually triggers a liquidity event, so the team gets
           | paid (or their equity gets transferred to OpenAI) in a way
           | that provides a bit of a bonus and incentive to stick around.
        
       | throwaway4aday wrote:
       | Just dropping this here since it looks like a lot of people
       | haven't heard of it.
       | 
       | Voyager: An Open-Ended Embodied Agent with Large Language Models
       | 
       | https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.16291
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | Global Illumination appears to have been working on a browser-
       | based multiplayer Minecraft clone (https://www.biomes.gg/), not
       | anything explicitly related to AI content generation.
       | 
       | Odd acquisition choice unless OpenAI is going to do an unexpected
       | pivot.
        
         | bozhark wrote:
         | Roblox for AI
        
         | peterhunt wrote:
         | I worked with these guys a long time ago at FB.
         | 
         | Their founder and CEO created The Algorithm at Instagram. Rest
         | of the team is super strong too. Makes a lot of sense for
         | OpenAI to acquire a team at the intersection of AI and consumer
         | products.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | I think they have to decide if they want to be an API
           | provider or a product-maker.
           | 
           | Businesses don't tend to do well when they directly compete
           | with their clients.
           | 
           | At the very least spin one off into a subsidiary whose
           | affiliation isn't widely known.
        
             | kridsdale3 wrote:
             | > I think they have to decide if they want to be an API
             | provider or a product-maker. > Businesses don't tend to do
             | well when they directly compete with their clients.
             | 
             | Isn't this what MSFT and GOOG do?
        
             | falcor84 wrote:
             | >Businesses don't tend to do well when they directly
             | compete with their clients.
             | 
             | True in general, but then we have Amazon.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | People like Walmart still refuse to let any customer data
               | near AWS.
        
               | catchnear4321 wrote:
               | you wrote people. did you mean corporations?
               | 
               | don't let those darn things trick you into thinking they
               | are people. legally it gets murky, but they aren't
               | people. it is all just a ploy for emotional connection
               | for the sake of taking advantage of you.
               | 
               | like cats.
        
             | _pdp_ wrote:
             | 100% Yep. I like OpenAI but I think their peril will be due
             | to lack of vision more than anything else. Other players
             | are catching up. IMHO they should stick to providing AI
             | infrastructure.
             | 
             | That being said, considering Microsoft's investment, the
             | most likely outcome is that OpenAI will move into the
             | consumer business while being the research arm for Azure.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | Seems pretty obvious they decided to be a product maker.
             | This is them doubling down.
             | 
             | They started out obviously doing API stuff. chatGPT was
             | some sort of proof-of-concept or whatever but once it went
             | viral, the obvious pivot is to be a product maker. The
             | margins on ChatGPT+ is way better than an API, as every
             | ChatGPT clone will tell you. A viral product is really hard
             | to make, never mind make and throw away to focus on lower
             | margin corporate customers.
             | 
             | They seem to have a great vision now - make a good product
             | (WIP, but rapidly iterating), and sell the underlying
             | models to Microsoft to offer as an API for the residual
             | value they can't capture directly. This should make it
             | clear that if you're selling a Chatbot off of their APIs,
             | they're planning to compete with you.
        
         | burcs wrote:
         | There was that Sims post the other day from a16z as well. Seems
         | like a plausible next area for them to take on.
         | 
         | Was it them or someone else who trained their bots on Dota a
         | few years back?
        
           | minimaxir wrote:
           | It was them. https://openai.com/research/openai-five
           | 
           | They've since abandoned _all_ their reinforcement learning
           | projects. (aside from RLHF for training ChatGPT)
        
             | burcs wrote:
             | Thanks for the link!
             | 
             | That's a shame, I was really impressed with their research
             | in that space.
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | Did they make a public announcement to that effect? Or do
             | you have insider knowledge?
        
               | minimaxir wrote:
               | A co-founder announced they disbanded their robotics team
               | a couple years ago:
               | https://venturebeat.com/business/openai-disbands-its-
               | robotic...
               | 
               | That was the same time they depreciated OpenAI Gym:
               | https://github.com/openai/gym
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Their statement is pretty clear about what they see as the
         | value add:
         | 
         | > OpenAI has acquired the team at Global Illumination, a
         | company founded by Thomas Dimson, Taylor Gordon, and Joey
         | Flynn. The entire team has joined OpenAI to work on our core
         | products including ChatGPT. Global Illumination is a company
         | that has been leveraging AI to build creative tools,
         | infrastructure, and digital experiences. The team previously
         | designed and built products early on at Instagram and Facebook
         | and have also made significant contributions at YouTube,
         | Google, Pixar, Riot Games, and other notable companies. We're
         | very excited for the impact they'll have here at OpenAI.
         | 
         | Seems like a very standard acquihire. There's no indication
         | that any of Global Illumination's projects will continue, or
         | that OpenAI will get into the gaming business.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | > Seems like a very standard acquihire. There's no indication
           | that any of Global Illumination's projects will continue, or
           | that OpenAI will get into the gaming business.
           | 
           | Deploying AI agents to 3D worlds seems like a huge potential
           | market. Not just for gaming, but as a test bed for real world
           | 3D SLAM.
           | 
           | Rendering scenes in 3D with AI seems like another huge
           | potential market, at the intersection of movies and gaming.
           | 
           | This is both at once. I think it'd be a mistake to put them
           | to work on ChatGPT.
        
             | kridsdale3 wrote:
             | I saw a demo of a Skyrim mod on Youtube [1], where they
             | wired the dialog screen with NPCs in the town of Windhelm
             | up with the OpenAI API.
             | 
             | Each character had all their Bethesda-written dialog fed to
             | the LLM as a starting prompt, so each one communicated with
             | the player within the bounds of their authored identity,
             | and knew what that character was written to know.
             | 
             | The human player used freeform in-game text-to-LLM as input
             | to talk to the people in the town square. The latency was
             | large, but not more than a few seconds.
             | 
             | He was able to walk up to someone and say things like
             | "Where do you live? Who is your father?" .... latency pause
             | ... "Oh me? I live in the Cloud District. It's where all of
             | us Battleborn clan live, of course!"
             | 
             | The real kicker of this demo was that they passed the LLM-
             | generated response dialog in to a deep-fake model trained
             | on each character's original voice actors (since the corpus
             | in Skyrim is vast, this ended up quite accurate).
             | 
             | All of this was a major generational shift for gaming as a
             | whole. I had just witnessed the first time a video game
             | player could actually TALK to an NPC, in a fully
             | unstructured and unscripted fashion, while each character
             | remained as in-character as the original game's authors
             | intended.
             | 
             | So maybe this purchase by OpenAI is about something like
             | that. Building NPCs for Biomes.gg that you can actually
             | talk to.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6sVWEu9HWU
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | yEAH THIS IS A 5 YEAR PLAY.
             | 
             | They are going to put AI to voxel 3d spatial dev...
             | "EnvironGPT" '3DGPT'
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | ???
           | 
           | Sorry, I don't see any of that written there, not "pretty
           | clear" to me.
        
             | cercatrova wrote:
             | Scroll down.
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | Scroll down to where? It's a 4 line comment.
        
               | cercatrova wrote:
               | Scroll down on the post, not the comments, and you'll see
               | where the parent pulled their quote from, which you said
               | you "don't see any of that written there," well, it's
               | written there.
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | Open AI voxel-based AI dynamic navigable 3d environs.
        
         | serjester wrote:
         | They are devoting enormous resources to studying LLM safety -
         | my assumption is they're trying to push the limits of what's
         | possible with autonomous agents before someone else does.
         | 
         | If you can build a bot to beat an open world game as complex as
         | Minecraft, you're pretty close to automating an enormous amount
         | of jobs and potentially doing some destructive stuff. This
         | seems like an aquihire to kickstart that initiative.
         | 
         | Full disclosure this is a complete assumption, could just as
         | well be on the whims of Sama. I'm skeptical of the other
         | answers here - OpenAI is perfectly capable of hiring some of
         | the best PM's in the world without having to buy a company.
        
           | flangola7 wrote:
           | Part of Minecraft is gathering resources, building weapons,
           | and out-manoeuvering and killing enemies. Forget jobs, those
           | implications keep me up.
        
         | mugivarra69 wrote:
         | seems like they gunning for deepmind rl based ideas.
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | People have been training ML to play Minecraft via text
         | commands for a while. Having access to the guts of a clone
         | makes perfect sense given their past and present projects.
        
           | 93po wrote:
           | I'd be really curious how this training works. Is it done on
           | a real-time minecraft application, or did they build a custom
           | game engine that mimics minecraft but without any movement
           | delay and without any graphics so the speed of training could
           | be thousands of times faster?
        
           | gaudystead wrote:
           | Just speculating here but... More than just _playing_ a game,
           | I could see OpenAI wanting to go after the 3D assets market
           | by letting players generate levels, items, and perhaps even
           | NPCs, simply by describing them. It might be easier to
           | generate voxel-based assets first though, which would make
           | Minecraft-esque games a logical first target (perhaps just
           | behind 2D games, but I suspect the market isn't as big
           | there).
        
           | ShamelessC wrote:
           | Maybe...if they didn't already have direct access to the
           | original via Microsoft.
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | That's a good point. Looks like there's more to the story
             | in the announcement.
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | "Conspiracy" theory:
               | 
               | Couldn't it be the opposite ?
               | 
               | Let's imagine, that Microsoft, one of the main investor
               | of OpenAI, wants to get rid of a solid open-source
               | Minecraft clone before it gets popular ?
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPHEtewFm3M
               | 
               | Not saying it's true, but that's totally reasonable to
               | spend xxM USD if you have to defend your multi-billion
               | game license.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | I would totally buy this. This way Microsoft doesn't look
               | bad in an era where big tech is coming under scrutiny for
               | acquisitions.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | The market is littered with clones of minecraft and has
               | been since before it was even done being made. None of
               | them have even been remotely a threat to Minecraft. Turns
               | out you need way more than just a bunch of blocks.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | If it is the people but not the company that were interesting,
         | OpenAI could make an offer to each of the persons working
         | there.
         | 
         | So obviously yes it's an odd decision to buy an open-source
         | MMORPG, but there are tons of possibilities.
         | 
         | Plenty of times, you can see large companies buying non-sense,
         | or companies at outrageous price (we just don't know the price
         | in the case here).
         | 
         | Sometimes even to fire the people behind, and throw away the
         | product.
         | 
         | It can be for many reasons:
         | 
         | - Either they really have a solid business use which justifies
         | the acquisition
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | - Perhaps they have a common investor/VC, and that investor is
         | influent enough in OpenAI to "convince" the board to buy the
         | company.
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | - Some investors give a kickback on the acquisition (I don't
         | think so)
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | - Microsoft wanted to early kill a competitor to Minecraft.
         | 
         | etc.
         | 
         | Probably it'll be difficult to know.
        
       | KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
       | Well a metaverse or character.ai like product is an obvious
       | application.
        
       | kitanata wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
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