[HN Gopher] Brand-new Linux release, which I'm calling the Debia...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Brand-new Linux release, which I'm calling the Debian Linux Release
       (1993)
        
       Author : ecliptik
       Score  : 292 points
       Date   : 2023-08-16 14:30 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wiki.debian.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wiki.debian.org)
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | I went to Purdue. Its LUG had 10 year birthday party of Debian,
       | and alumnus Ian Murdock was there. Sadly, it was a week before
       | the semester started, so I wasn't in-town, yet.
       | 
       | https://www.cs.purdue.edu/news/articles/2003/debian-birthday...
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Hey, we were at Purdue at the same time (I graduated December
         | '04)! That means the chances of me having met you in person are
         | _very_ slightly elevated compared to just a random person on
         | HN...
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | Debian changed my life. My first look at an OS produced by a
       | collective of disparate developers was RedHat 5.0 in the late
       | 90s. Linux HOWTOs were basically all the docs I had. I got a pppd
       | to answer the phone and dialed home from my friends house. I was
       | logged in as root all the time. fvwm was the pinnacle of cool.
       | 
       | Debian changed all that. Local, top quality documentation. A
       | community. Packages that had been hand crafted to work like the
       | rest of the system. The friction disappeared and let me move
       | freely around the OS discovering things. Imagine walking around
       | LA and then someone gives you a _car_ and a _map_ -- that was the
       | kind of difference in quality of experience it gave me.
       | 
       | potato worked. woody felt like the future. I ran it for years on
       | my iBook G3 (which one of the DDs helped me set up.) To this day,
       | "sarge" still feels like the ultimate next gen, so it's funny to
       | see it is actually pretty old. To me, sarge means "futuristic out
       | of touch thing" because I waited for it for so long.
       | 
       | Thank you all so much.
        
         | antod wrote:
         | That mirrors my first Linux/Unix experiences in the late 90s.
         | Except for a short go at OpenBSD for firewalling between trying
         | Redhat 5.0 and ending up on Debian.
         | 
         | Debian just felt so much more "right" to me than Redhat did
         | back then, and I never really went back to the Redhat side of
         | the fence. This was despite Debian having way less third party
         | support for anything back then - it wasn't really until Ubuntu
         | took off that Debian (by extension) felt secure. Up until then,
         | I always had a nagging feeling that the Redhat ecosystem would
         | completely take over, and I would yet again have
         | picked/preferred the wrong horse in the technology world.
         | 
         | A big thank you to all the Debian devs/maintainers over the
         | years.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | I did my little part to help Debian: I ordered 100 CDs of
         | Debian 1.1 (in 1996? 1997?) from the US to Europe, which I then
         | shipped to 100 people in Europe (and even some in north
         | Africa). I ran out of the 100 CD and ordered 30 more and by
         | then it was already Debian 1.2!
         | 
         | (my old memory may be failing: it may have been 1.2 then 1.3
         | and not 1.1 then 1.2)
         | 
         | It was _hard_ to get Linux distro for some of us back then:
         | dial-up at best and otherwise we 'd buy magazines or books
         | that'd come with a Linux CD.
         | 
         | I've basically been using Debian and derivatives since forever.
         | Did a short stint with Red Hat and Fedora back in the days but
         | came back to Debian.
         | 
         | Before Debian I was using Slackware.
         | 
         | And as you said: thanks so much to everyone who worked on
         | Debian!
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | It took a very long time to load.
       | 
       | Perfectly illustrates how even serving tiny static files really
       | is hard these days.
       | 
       | >?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Debian-announcement-1993.txt
       | 
       | Perhaps that's why. There's some dynamic script duplicating the
       | functionality of HTTP GET.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | who would have imagined a post from 30 years ago might be in
         | cold storage and take a lil while to load.
        
           | AlecSchueler wrote:
           | The first time, sure, but I'd expect it to be cached after
           | that.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | If it was cold, it's not anymore.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20230816143054/https://wiki.debi...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | seabass-labrax wrote:
       | If you're using Debian, you can apt-install the debian-history
       | package, which will put some nice HTML files in your
       | /usr/share/doc/debian-history directory outlining the history of
       | the project!
        
       | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
       | > This library will contain packages like the S3 X-server
       | 
       | It took me a moment to realize he meant a version of X for S3
       | cards. In the meantime, my brain was trying to imagine an X
       | server running from an AWS bucket...
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Lost to history is the fact that XFree86 version 3 provided a
         | different binary for some families of graphics card. If you
         | owned an S3 911 (a very common "Windows accelerator" at that
         | time) you needed XF86_S3 but if you owned one of S3's execrable
         | ViRGE 3D cards you needed XF86_S3V. Having a single server that
         | contained or could load every driver did not come until version
         | 4.
        
           | sharts wrote:
           | Dang, I haven't heard S3 ViRGE in so long. That thing was
           | terrible. But that's all I could have at the time and seemed
           | to work well enough.
           | 
           | As for those old "Win modems" back in the day...that's a
           | different story.
        
           | h2odragon wrote:
           | > S3's execrable ViRGE 3D cards
           | 
           |  _twitch_
           | 
           | clocks so bad the screen would swim at 1024x768.
        
       | cmrdporcupine wrote:
       | Did it already have the .deb package format and the amazing apt
       | repositories at this point? To me that is what blew my mind; the
       | transitive dependency management and automatic upgrades made me
       | not touch an RPM based distro again.
       | 
       | I don't recall using this first release, I was probably still on
       | SLS or something then, and I believe I briefly played with
       | RedHat... But I did use it maybe a year or two later, and haven't
       | stopped (okay, sometimes I use Ubuntu, shh).
        
         | mr_sturd wrote:
         | Looks like the .deb format was introduced in 0.93[0]. Can't
         | really tell if that was the time `dpkg` was introduced, in
         | 1994.
         | 
         | [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_(file_format)
        
       | davidw wrote:
       | I have been happily using Debian, and its derivative Ubuntu since
       | 1997. They do great work, and getting involved as a Debian
       | packager was a great way to get involved in the world of open
       | source for someone like me who had no college CS or professional
       | background at that point. Indeed, it was a stepping stone to
       | getting a job as a software developer.
        
       | myle wrote:
       | The email looks like it describes Arch with the exception of the
       | installer perhaps
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Arch has an official/built-in installer now (as of last year
         | iirc) - 'archinstall'.
        
       | abhijeetpbodas wrote:
       | > 2) Debian will contain the most up-to-date of everything.
       | 
       | Hasn't aged too well, I suppose.
        
         | richardwhiuk wrote:
         | Switch to unstable.
        
         | emilsedgh wrote:
         | It has aged extremely well. Based on the degree of the _up-to-
         | date_ you need you can use
         | 
         | * Experimental
         | 
         | * Unstable/Sid
         | 
         | * Testing
         | 
         | It all depends on what your definition of up to date is.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | There's always RHEL :D
        
         | rollcat wrote:
         | Quite the contrary, it aged extremely well. Debian testing/sid
         | is very usable on a desktop/laptop; I've used it successfully
         | in such fashion for something like a decade. Nowadays I do
         | prefer a distro/OS with a 6-month release cycle (like NixOS or
         | OpenBSD), but as far as rolling releases go, Debian has always
         | been great.
        
           | Corsome wrote:
           | What are the advantages of using Debian testing/sid rolling
           | release instead of a regular rolling release distro (say,
           | Arch)?
        
             | rollcat wrote:
             | Like toyg says, I really enjoyed having a familiar working
             | environment both on servers and on my workstation. When big
             | changes would come around (like the transition from SysV
             | init to systemd), I'd start getting hands-on experience
             | early, and upgrade production with more confidence.
             | 
             | Between testing/sid/experimental you also got the choice of
             | running "somewhat stable" vs "bleeding edge"; I'd usually
             | stick to testing (except around the freeze leading up to a
             | release).
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | What's irregular about Debian, and why would I use Arch
             | instead of it?
        
               | Corsome wrote:
               | I rather meant irregular with regards to Debian Sid not
               | Debian in general.
               | 
               | Arch only has rolling release mode so everyone is using
               | the latest (thus any potential issue in Arch will affect
               | bigger % of Arch users) while Debian has stable and
               | testing and I was wondering if that'd make Sid less
               | stable for practical use (since "it's not stable").
               | 
               | I don't want to start a distro war here, just wondering
               | about some anecdata of actual distro users.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Debian Sid is the original rolling release. Its advantage
             | is is that you are on a rolling-release distro _but it 's
             | still Debian_, so all the system knowledge you accrue will
             | apply seamlessly to production Debian servers. Most
             | rolling-release distros, on the other hand, are typically
             | not used on production servers.
        
               | dunno7456 wrote:
               | Also, packages are tested in sid/unstable and migrates to
               | testing which then becomes the new stable when it's
               | ready.
               | 
               | And packages are tested across releases, enabling one to
               | dist-upgrade to a new version of the system easily. I
               | think it's piuparts that does this job of testing
               | packages among themselves too.
        
               | JohnnyDoe737 wrote:
               | Sid is not a rolling release. This is a common
               | misconception.
               | 
               | In preparation for a new stable release, it goes through
               | what is effectively a package freeze. Maintainers are
               | discouraged from updating packages in Sid in order to
               | focus on the new release. So almost no new updates are
               | uploaded to the repositories until Stable is finally out.
        
           | abhijeetpbodas wrote:
           | It would have been fair to say it aged well, if the version
           | which is currently called _testing_ was their flagship
           | version.
           | 
           | For most software, the testing version gives you relatively
           | latest stuff. But that doesn't mean every software can
           | advertise itself as being up-to-date.
           | 
           | For debian specifically, I don't think they recommend using
           | the testing version unless you're a Debian
           | contributor/tester.
           | 
           | I've tried using Sid (desktop) in the past, but ran into
           | several version issues while installing through apt. Didn't
           | try much to debug, and switched to stable. Been a happy user
           | since!
        
             | abhijeetpbodas wrote:
             | And happy 30th birthday to debian! Really appreciate all
             | the work and effort that has gone into it.
        
       | HeckFeck wrote:
       | Interesting that they were called "releases" back then. I wonder
       | when it became a "distribution"? Was that word only used by BSD
       | back then?
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | It's amazing that when I discovered debian in 1997, it was just
       | the thing that was the normal way to do Linux (OK, there were
       | other competing options that were nice too), but actually it was
       | a pretty new idea.
       | 
       | And now it's 25 years later.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murdock#Death
       | 
       | police reported finding him dead of suicide the day after he
       | pledged to spend his life opposing police brutality like what
       | he'd just experienced
       | 
       | (after, it must be said, threatening suicide that day as well)
        
         | tcj_phx wrote:
         | Wikipedia doesn't mention that Ian was apparently adversely
         | affected by psychiatric drugs.
         | 
         |  _Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide_
         | (theregister.co.uk) [July 7, 2016] -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12050263
         | 
         | From the first comment [0] on that discussion: "They found
         | chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his
         | bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions
         | with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that
         | caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled
         | suicide they make it out to be."
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12050481
         | 
         | "Chlordiazepoxide, trade name Librium among others, is a
         | sedative and hypnotic medication of the benzodiazepine class" -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlordiazepoxide
         | 
         | "Diazepam, first marketed as Valium, is a medicine of the
         | benzodiazepine family that acts as an anxiolytic." -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
         | 
         | "Temazepam (sold under the brand names Restoril among others)
         | is a medication of the benzodiazepine class which is generally
         | used to treat severe or debilitating insomnia." -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temazepam
         | 
         | "Oxazepam is a short-to-intermediate-acting benzodiazepine." -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxazepam
         | 
         | That's _four_ benzo 's. The whole class of drug is known to be
         | degenerative: they perfectly treat anxiety for 2-3 weeks, then
         | you need to up the dose just to feel normal. Looks like Ian was
         | on a benzo spiral.
         | 
         | The anxiety tragedy is that there used to be a very safe GABA
         | supplement, GHB, in supplement stores, but this supplement got
         | scheduled because it's also useful as a date-rape drug. GABA
         | itself doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, but GHB does.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid
         | 
         | Allopathic psychiatry is an obsolete tragedy:
         | https://www.madinamerica.com/2022/02/malignant-gooderism/
         | 
         | (minor edits)
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | i didn't realize that; thank you for the added information
           | 
           | psychiatric drugs can have surprising effects, but generally
           | the terrible interaction benzodiazepines have with alcohol is
           | that they send people into a potentially fatal coma, rather
           | than causing suicide attempts or psychotic episodes
           | 
           | the hangover, though...
           | 
           | withdrawal from ghb doesn't sound like a picnic either, often
           | including delirium
           | 
           | that blog post is pretty appalling; the author admits to
           | intentionally submitting his 'friend' to alcohol withdrawal.
           | doesn't he know delirium tremens routinely causes permanent
           | brain damage
        
             | tcj_phx wrote:
             | GHB is approved for narcolepsy - I understand it helps
             | improve the quality of sleep.
             | 
             | My friend ran out of alcohol - we were not aware of how
             | much she was drinking. She lived with her mother at the
             | time - her mother & aunt called the mental health crisis
             | team on the first day of alcohol withdrawal. She was taken
             | to the hospital. I think she was likely tranquilized with
             | haloperidol. This is not an appropriate treatment for
             | alcohol withdrawal, but it's reasonable under the
             | psychiatric standard of care.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | i think timely treatment with haldol can in fact
               | significantly reduce or even entirely prevent the
               | excitotoxic brain damage from alcohol withdrawal, but i'm
               | not certain of that
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens#Treatment
        
               | tcj_phx wrote:
               | Haloperidol is sort-of useful for it's anti-serotonin
               | properties [0]. The Soviets used this drug to induce
               | agony in political dissidents.
               | 
               | The physiology of psychosis is now fully described, so
               | there's no need to use haloperidol as a palliative 'anti-
               | psychotic' anymore.
               | 
               | Someone responded to my comment yesterday [0] to mention
               | pimavanserin, an antipsychotic that works as an anti-
               | serotonin drug (rather than an anti-dopamine drug).
               | 
               | [0] my comment from yesterday:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37136792
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | i didn't mean to prevent or arrest psychosis, i meant to
               | prevent or arrest excitotoxicity
               | 
               | delirium tremens can induce psychosis but while that's
               | pretty unfun it's usually less crucial to interrupt the
               | psychosis than the neural damage
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Previous discussion:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12050263
        
           | tuukkah wrote:
           | A comment from that discussion:
           | 
           | > _if you read the autopsy report there are a variety of
           | injuries that you 'd have to try pretty hard to inflict on
           | yourself, but are absolutely consistent with being beaten and
           | thrown to the ground, and then having someone dead-drop knee-
           | first into your back._
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12050924
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | and that kind of treatment is hardly unlikely (though not,
             | i think, forgivable) when cops find a drunk guy banging on
             | the door of someone else's house insisting it's his own
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | > (after, it must be said, threatening suicide that day as
         | well)
         | 
         | And having a significant amount of alcohol + anti-
         | depression/anti-anxiety drugs in his system.
         | 
         | And a day after he was arrested (twice) for drunkenly banging
         | on a neighbor's door.
        
         | tuukkah wrote:
         | Getting targetted (mistakenly or not) by the law enforcement
         | for certain minor offences seems to be one of the most
         | dangerous things that can happen to you: they won't investigate
         | carefully and they won't presume you're innocent.
        
           | dpkirchner wrote:
           | Something worth keeping in mind when people blame the victim
           | with the classic "they should have complied!" retort.
        
             | sdfghswe wrote:
             | > Something worth keeping in mind when people blame the
             | victim with the classic "they should have complied!"
             | retort.
             | 
             | I noticed it's more common to get that retort if the victim
             | is black and/or poor.
             | 
             | If the victim is a middle class white American, you don't
             | hear that.
        
             | imtringued wrote:
             | Compliance does nothing against American police violence.
             | You're merely reducing the chance that they pull out a gun
             | and execute you on the spot.
        
             | phone8675309 wrote:
             | A summary execution by cop, regardless of how much you
             | resist, should not be the punishment for any crime, yet we
             | have enough bootlickers and sycophants that want to give
             | the police carte blanche (yet also claim to be skeptical of
             | government power somehow).
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | winter_blue wrote:
           | One particularly horrible exmaple of an innocent man being
           | brutalized is that of James King:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HujPlUyTXRY
           | 
           | Plainclothes officers acted like thugs/thieves, and then beat
           | him up, and nearly murdered him. After that they charged him
           | with an array of federal criminal offenses (including
           | resisting arrest, assaulting them (the police), etc). This
           | went all the way to a federal jury trial (which defendants
           | _rarely_ win), which he did win. The amount of emotional
           | psychological trauma this must have caused is inexcusable.
           | There 's more details here: https://ij.org/case/king-v-
           | brownback/ - quote:
           | 
           |  _> Worse still, Kent County, Michigan, prosecutors refused
           | to drop the charges. Instead, after James rejected a plea
           | offer, prosecutors subjected him to a criminal trial.
           | Thankfully, a jury acquitted James of all charges. If James
           | had been convicted or pleaded guilty, he could have faced
           | decades in prison, and it would have been nearly impossible
           | for him to sue the officers and hold them to account for
           | their actions that violated his constitutional rights._
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | For the french crowd, https://pdfbib.com/pdf/0325-formation-
       | debian-gnu-linux.pdf was a famous tutorial that many suggested to
       | others before we had search engines. Alexis Delattre.
        
       | darkwater wrote:
       | Happy 30th birthday, Debian!
        
         | HankB99 wrote:
         | Happy birthday Debian and thank you Mr. Murdock and all of the
         | many devs and maintainers who have kept it going.
        
       | emersion wrote:
       | Printed version here:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20151229025053/http://ianmurdock...
       | 
       | > Yes, that's an actual scanned printout of the Debian
       | announcement. I received such an overwhelming number of responses
       | I had to print them out to avoid filling my 500 kilobyte (!) disk
       | quota on the student Sequent Symmetry.
        
       | woleium wrote:
       | Named after Deborah and Ian (Deborah was his girlfriend at the
       | time)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | echelon_musk wrote:
         | I embarrassingly used to pronounce it as "deebian" before being
         | schooled by a graybeard.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | I always assumed it was pronounced "day-bian" until I heard
           | the above story of how the name came to be.
        
           | fortyseven wrote:
           | Shit, I say it like that! OH GOD, MY WORLD IS IN SHAMBLES. :D
        
           | joemi wrote:
           | I don't think I've ever said it aloud, but that's how I
           | always read it in my head.
        
         | Midnight1938 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | themerone wrote:
           | Because most people aren't into conspiracy theories.
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | Perhaps respect.
           | 
           | e.g. I very much prefer to remember him for Debian.
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | How would that be relevant to what he did 20 years before?
           | Also, because these conspiracy theories are bullshit?
           | 
           | His death was a tragedy and a symptom of our times, but
           | there's no point banging on about it here.
        
           | random467 wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | The guy was sexually assaulted and then accused himself of
           | sexual assault which got him "cancelled." I followed him on
           | Twitter back then, it's hard to imagine it not being suicide
           | after all of that.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | Nice to see the key innovation described so well: "The system
       | will be easy to keep up-to-date with a 'upgrading' script in the
       | base system"
       | 
       | I don't know that dpkg was the first such upgrade system but it
       | definitely still is one of the best. And continues to be, many
       | later imitators are not nearly as effective. A key part of that
       | is all the work done in packaging so that the packages are
       | maintainable and upgradeable, of course.
        
         | seabass-labrax wrote:
         | I gave an online talk[1] about the history and future of
         | package management last year that you might find interesting.
         | It was very difficult to determine exactly what was the
         | 'first'; as is often the case with big ideas, the Linux
         | community seemed to spontaneously decide that it was needed and
         | came up with multiple solutions in the space of just a few
         | years. Even the question itself is complicated, because
         | software did not typically come with a clear 'release date',
         | which it usually has now.
         | 
         | Ultimately, the conclusion I drew from my research was that
         | Bogus Linux[2] (which is still available, but no longer
         | maintained) was the first distribution with a fully functional,
         | system-wide binary package manager, but that Perl might have a
         | had a functional package manager limited to Perl libraries in
         | development or even in use by some in 1993 too.
         | 
         | [1]: https://framatube.org/w/uubjKne6swPQpJWiQLfqxd
         | 
         | [2]: https://bogus.org/
        
           | NelsonMinar wrote:
           | Oh fascinating, thanks! Yeah CPAN dates to about 1993. CPAN
           | in turn was based on CTAN (for TeX), which Wikipedia dates to
           | 1991 or 1992. I used both systems in the early/mid 90s and
           | they were not very good. CPAN in particular had a penchant
           | for deciding to rebuilding and reinstall everything,
           | including the Perl interpreter.
           | 
           | I assume the general idea is older, going back to at least
           | the 70s and minicomputers or the like.
        
             | oalders wrote:
             | Excellent look back at the history of CPAN here:
             | https://github.com/neilb/history-of-
             | cpan/blob/master/history...
        
         | tuukkah wrote:
         | dpkg handles individual packages, while APT is used to handle
         | dependencies and version upgrades. I recall using dselect as a
         | predecessor of APT in the beginning, but I don't know if it was
         | part of the first release.
         | 
         | EDIT: dselect was developed at the same time as dpkg and was
         | initially considered a part of it, so in that sense it was
         | possible to upgrade a system by using just dpkg:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dselect
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | IIRC deselect was ultra ambitious, but out of the missed
           | target, apt emerged (sic) as a solid cornerstone.
        
       | raxxorraxor wrote:
       | > 1) someone who will eventually be willing to allow me to upload
       | the release to their anonymous ftp-site. Please contact me.
       | 
       | Back then data sharing was so good. Despite the now present
       | security threats in a more weaponized net, this even beats the
       | most convenient drag&drop sharing site.
       | 
       | > Debian will contain the most up-to-date of everything.
       | 
       | Ironic that today it is the dependable system. Still flexible
       | enough for development, but I guess priorities have changed.
       | 
       | Debian is my favorite distro, it just always works for me. The
       | author seemed to have a tragic life and made many stops at
       | different companies, would have been interesting to hear his
       | reaction to the development of Debian. I don't know if he was
       | still an active developer, Debian had many, many project leaders
       | as far as I know.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I don't know if he was still an active developer
         | 
         | According to Wikipedia he died in 2015:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murdock
        
           | echelon_musk wrote:
           | The use of "was" in the parent as opposed to "is" tells you
           | that they are already aware.
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | jrockway wrote:
             | Are you sure Twitter is to blame? It seems like he was
             | abused by the police.
        
               | throw81749202 wrote:
               | I worked with him at the time of his death shortly after
               | Christmas of 2015. There was definitely a toxic twitter
               | mob, and it's also true that he had been in police
               | custody the day before, but whether either of these
               | things was the reason for his suicide was never clear.
        
           | richardwhiuk wrote:
           | I think the parent was wondering before they passed.
        
         | clintfred wrote:
         | Unfortunately, he passed away in 2016. RIP Ian.
        
           | avar wrote:
           | 2015, not 2016.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | I worked closely with Ian at Progeny Linux. He wasn't an active
         | developer on Debian at that point in time, although he was very
         | technically savvy.
        
         | ilyt wrote:
         | > Ironic that today it is the dependable system. Still flexible
         | enough for development, but I guess priorities have changed.
         | 
         | Testing is pretty stable for something named "testing" and
         | unstable is remarkably stable for something called stable.
         | Well, except that one month every 2 years after release where
         | all that was frozen for release gets unfrozen..
         | 
         | And it being stable is not only important feature. The upgrades
         | _just work_ , better than in any other distro I tested (unless
         | you make frankendebian but even then surprisingly often it also
         | "just works". Slap unattended-upgrades package with some
         | settings and you can basically forget it if it is just some
         | service
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | Of course, for anyone who wants up-to-the-minute
         | Unstable/Testing channel, Debian still has that as an option,
         | but I'm with you on Debian Stable.
         | 
         | When Debian's APT network package manager happened, that was
         | pretty new and unusual. Imagine hearing about a package, typing
         | a shell command, and Debian probably had the package, and it
         | was installing. (When I was using Red Hat before Debian, there
         | was a set of Web sites that I'd have to use to find packages,
         | in a way that now seems naive and reckless:
         | "https://www.neilvandyke.org/lab-linux-1999/#software".)
         | 
         | The package ecosystem is more mature now, and it turns out that
         | Debian Stable almost always has what I need, so I still get the
         | APT experience. (I even got the closed Nvidia CUDA stack from
         | Debian Stable `non-free` repos, the other day, and it just
         | worked. Maybe a little too easily and well, but that's another
         | matter.)
        
           | LanternLight83 wrote:
           | This explains what freshmeat was; I hit it via google looking
           | for an old scheme library, but the link's long dead.
        
           | antod wrote:
           | _> When Debian 's APT network package manager happened, that
           | was pretty new and unusual. Imagine hearing about a package,
           | typing a shell command, and Debian probably had the package,
           | and it was installing._
           | 
           | I think a lot of people who came to Linux later don't fully
           | realise how revolutionary apt was back then.
           | 
           | I can still remember the pain of manually downloading rpms
           | only to find it needed another one installed first or wasn't
           | version compatible with something else etc.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > The package ecosystem is more mature now, and it turns out
           | that Debian Stable almost always has what I need
           | 
           | At times it's missing something I want but usually Debian
           | stable is all I need. I don't use unstable or backports:
           | typically I either use Debian stable or I compile from source
           | (like Emacs).
           | 
           | Last little hiccup recently is the lack of support for JPEG
           | XL in the latest ImageMagick shipped with Debian stable (if
           | I'm not mistaken), so I'd need to compile it from source
           | (haven't done it yet but it's on my todo list: I want to
           | recompile "losslessly" all my JPG to JPEG XL).
        
       | twic wrote:
       | > 2) Debian will contain the most up-to-date of everything.
       | 
       | No plan survives contact with the enemy.
        
       | glonq wrote:
       | My first awareness of Debian was in a surplus electronics store
       | in Rohnert Park California. A kid who bore a striking resemblance
       | to Martin Short's Ed Grimley character from SCTV brought a fat
       | stack of floppy disks to the check-out and then proudly
       | proclaimed that he was using them for installing Debian linux.
       | Bless him.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mr_sturd wrote:
       | Early Linux is before my time in computing. Had to look up SLS -
       | Softlanding Linux System[0] - thought it might have been
       | something to do with Slackware.
       | 
       | [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softlanding_Linux_System
        
         | jzb wrote:
         | Other way around, really - Slackware was based on SLS.
        
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