[HN Gopher] Is this a good book for me, now?
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       Is this a good book for me, now?
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 204 points
       Date   : 2023-08-16 09:23 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (maryrosecook.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (maryrosecook.com)
        
       | csours wrote:
       | "Pet Sounds" by the Beach Boys had a very similar effect for me.
       | Some of those songs hit different after different life
       | experiences.
       | 
       | I feel like a lot of people have album(s) like this, I'd love it
       | if you shared.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | The album _Days of Future Past_ by The Moody Blues is that way
         | for me.
         | 
         | As far as individual tracks:
         | 
         |  _I Just Wasn 't Made For These Times_ (From _Pet Sounds_ )
         | certainly hits differently depending on when you hear it.
         | 
         |  _Landslide_ by Fleetwood Mac has a similar effect for me.
        
       | OmarShehata wrote:
       | I relate to a lot of this! I have had a similar transformation. I
       | think it's really important and changes practically how you read
       | books. It frees you from this "I need to read these books that X
       | said transformed their life".
       | 
       | But also, the small things like, you can just skip a section, or
       | drop a book. If it's not working for you, then powering through
       | it isn't necessarily going to make it better. But also this
       | mindset has allowed me to re-read books, knowing that the "me" is
       | different and I might get something new out of it.
       | 
       | I once read an HN comment a long time ago saying "why would you
       | ever re-read books? You already have this knowledge. Seems like a
       | complete waste of time" and I couldn't disagree more, but had
       | trouble articulating why. Next time I will link to this post!
        
         | slothtrop wrote:
         | I've dropped books in the past I just wasn't ready for (too
         | young/inexperienced a reader), and enjoyed them later. On the
         | other hand, these days I feel I can gauge well enough whether
         | it's worth my time to finish what I'm reading. Usually I do,
         | but not always.
         | 
         | I get more into a book if I can allow myself a large enough
         | block of time to read it. I had a phase where it was basically
         | the last thing I did in my day, and I'd only chip away at 10-15
         | min, having to re-read pages, not getting immersed. I still
         | like to read a bit at night but I give myself other blocks.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | 7 Habits for Highly Effective People transformed my life. But
         | not before I read it 3 times. I skipped around each time. I
         | still have never read it cover to cover.
         | 
         | Most crucially, the valuable parts that transformed me were not
         | the actual seven habits or what the online cliff notes cover,
         | but the other, non-headline concepts taught deep in some of the
         | chapters (specifically: universal spiritual morality,
         | Personality Ethic and Character Ethic, Circles of Concern and
         | Influence, and some others)
        
           | sBqQu3U0wH wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | balaji1 wrote:
       | the hardest part of consuming info from books or online,
       | especially online info, is to figure out how to calibrate that
       | info for you.
       | 
       | Lets say you are techie in your late 20s earning decently, living
       | in a bubble of a unique society. What is good advise that you can
       | apply as action immediately?
       | 
       | That said, there are timeless advice. But those sometimes require
       | a huge will power and straying from norm of today to incorporate.
        
       | thomasfromcdnjs wrote:
       | I usually prefer reading over audio books, but if I don't feel
       | like finishing a book, I just play the rest of it as an audio
       | book while I am working.
        
       | taopai wrote:
       | "Every time someone reads a book a new book is being created."
       | 
       | But not only reading. Try going for a walk while thinking about
       | some book your read some time ago. Look for the underlying ideas
       | or story and reflect about it.
       | 
       | This also applies to memories. Changing, growing up, can make you
       | change how you feel and reflect about past experiences.
       | 
       | I am know reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance while
       | having a part time job delivering pizzas in motorcycle. It's a
       | pretty awesome experience.
        
         | blairbeckwith wrote:
         | "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the
         | same river and he's not the same man."
        
           | HenryBemis wrote:
           | I have read Siddhartha quite a few times in my life (every
           | 4-5 years). Every time I align with a different character, or
           | with Siddhartha in the various phases.
           | 
           | Timing is (almost) everything in life. I read 3-4 years ago
           | "Though shall prosper" and "Half-time" and I could not have
           | picked a better timing for both. I couldn't imagine
           | appreciating either 20 years ago, and it would be "too late"
           | reading them at my 70s.
           | 
           | So yes, timing matters.
           | 
           | But there is also 1984, which everytime I read it just hits
           | the (same almost) spot!
        
             | labster wrote:
             | Orwell tends to be a clue-by-four precisely because he
             | knows how people can misinterpret political theory to their
             | own liking.
        
         | mjklin wrote:
         | Watch out for those gumption traps!
        
         | epiccoleman wrote:
         | This is something I have been trying to work on lately - just
         | cramming my head full of stuff that can be processed in the ol'
         | background thread.
         | 
         | What I have found is that sometimes, some seemingly innocuous
         | thing I read years ago will pop out at just the right moment,
         | some neural connection forms and all of a sudden I have the
         | basis of a whole rabbit hole of interesting thoughts.
         | 
         | I think it's important to fill your mind with _good_ stuff,
         | things that have the necessary depth and maybe enough
         | subjectivity that they 're ripe for that kind of background
         | processing. You are probably not going to have deep interesting
         | thoughts about Twilight (although maybe you will, no judgment.)
         | But philosophy, poetry, great fiction, even religious texts -
         | they're all crammed with symbolism and really reward re-reads
         | and deep thoughts.
         | 
         | A recent example of this for me is Kazuo Ishiguro's book The
         | Remains of the Day. It was mentioned on a podcast I like and so
         | I picked it up on something of a whim during a library visit.
         | 
         | The book is about a butler who served a "great English house"
         | and when I started it I was _deeply_ skeptical that I would
         | enjoy it. But it 's a great example of the kind of work that
         | really bears out for thinking on, and since I finished it I've
         | really enjoyed turning things over in my mind. I'm usually a
         | genre fiction guy (sci-fi, horror) and a lot of those books
         | just don't have the same depth.
         | 
         | I don't mean to disparage "light reading" because I'm truly not
         | that kind of. snide intellectual douche. But it's really
         | fascinating sort of watching your brain pick something apart
         | that warrants deep thought, and it's a really cool feeling to
         | be in some discussion with my wife and think "oh my god, that
         | bit from the introduction of book XYZ is so perfect right now,
         | I need to share it and talk about it."
         | 
         | One other book that I've really enjoyed the "post-processing"
         | phase on is The Essential Rumi - the Coleman Barks translation.
         | Those little poems are so rich and full of meaning, and it's
         | seriously rewarding to let your brain go to town on them.
        
       | barrysteve wrote:
       | Uhh, yes. This article has a very neutral perspective.
       | 
       | The supposed 'reservations' against the article's thesis is just
       | a restating of the article's thesis.
       | 
       | Reading books you won't immediately apply is good, and reading
       | books that you will never apply is good.
       | 
       | You build an internal map of the problem space. Oversee in a
       | short period of time where people have gone before you. It helps
       | when you know nothing.
       | 
       | Yes the book is good for you now, because there was a reason you
       | picked it up in the first place.
       | 
       | You don't have to 'experience' or undergo emotional turmoil to
       | understand. Books can be both an emotional journey and packed
       | full of useful knowledge. It's up to you how emotionally invested
       | you become while reading.
        
         | ltbarcly3 wrote:
         | I think you are deciding good on an absolute scale, and you are
         | right in that any time you spend actively engaging your mind
         | and growing is not going to be a complete waste of time. In a
         | world where it is often almost impossible to know what effect a
         | book has on you until much later, if at all, it's very hard to
         | know whether a book you just read was 'huge' or just another
         | book.
         | 
         | So while I did enjoy the article and applying the little
         | framework to my own reading history, there's no way to know
         | before you read it, and probably even after you read it in a
         | lot of cases, whether a book was the 'right book for you' at a
         | given time. I guess that is the point of the article in the
         | end, you can't reasonably build a book recommendation system
         | based on past reading history and reviews of books. That 5 star
         | you gave Huckleberry Finn, remembering how much you enjoyed it
         | when you were 13, might be a 1 star if you read it for the
         | first time today. Or maybe it would be 5 stars still. There's
         | almost no way to know.
        
         | zen_of_prog wrote:
         | I think the message is useful for people who receive or want to
         | give recommendations. The reason I often pick up something is
         | that it was rated highly on some online review, or that
         | somebody told me I should read it under the assumption that it
         | will be as eye-opening to me as it was to them.
         | 
         | > Yes the book is good for you now, because there was a reason
         | you picked it up in the first place.
         | 
         | I disagree. That can be the case, but the assumptions under
         | which it was picked up are often wrong, misleading, or become
         | wrong over time. This article sheds light on those assumptions.
         | 
         | > You don't have to 'experience' or undergo emotional turmoil
         | to understand.
         | 
         | But if I expect an experience and I think the characters are
         | all flat, I'm disappointed. If the book speaks to me, I become
         | more invested. Using recommendations and understanding their
         | subjectivity can prevent you from picking up junk, assuming
         | that's what you want.
        
         | falcor84 wrote:
         | >Yes the book is good for you now, because there was a reason
         | you picked it up in the first place.
         | 
         | I agree in general, but not with that specific statement. Even
         | if there was a good reason you picked it up, it might not be a
         | sufficiently good reason to spend 10 more hours on it, or to
         | block the queue of other books that would be more valuable to
         | you at that point in time.
        
           | mangamadaiyan wrote:
           | How do you know the book is (or will be) valuable to you
           | until (a) you finish reading the book, and (b) experience a
           | set of circumstances that make you appreciate the "value" of
           | the book?
           | 
           | Is a period of 10 hours (or however many) spent reading a
           | book _so_ important to one that one must judge a book before
           | picking it up?
        
             | jebarker wrote:
             | I think it depends on the type of book. I agree that you
             | can't really appreciate what value you'll get from
             | literature before reading, digesting and living with it.
             | But lots of non-fiction should actually just be a blog post
             | or some bullet points. There's certainly an opportunity
             | cost to reading those books.
        
       | corethree wrote:
       | Such a surface level view.
       | 
       | Books can lie and deceive and they can be wrong and evil.
       | 
       | There's this strange idea that books are good for you and
       | television is garbage. Nothing is further from the truth. Both
       | books and television are just different forms of human output
       | both of which can be bad or good because humans themselves can be
       | bad or good. One isn't particularly better than the other.
       | 
       | One thing about books though is the amount of effort it takes to
       | read it. The effort is so great that completion of a book often
       | leads to more bias. Not always but often. The more effort you
       | spend on something the higher positive bias you build towards it.
       | Hence books tend to be more convincing then television which
       | requires zero effort to consume.
        
         | raincole wrote:
         | The article has nothing do to with "books are inherently good
         | for you".
         | 
         | Ironically, your comment shows that you didn't read the
         | article. Maybe TV (and internet) has destroyed your attention
         | span and reading books is inherently good for you.
        
         | tizzy wrote:
         | I don't think you read the article, or if you did you didn't
         | understand it.
         | 
         | The idea isn't books themselves are good or bad, it's that the
         | same book can be good or bad depending on who you are. Maybe
         | that's a surface level view, but it doesn't relate to the
         | second half of your comment?
        
         | mym1990 wrote:
         | 'There's this strange idea that books are good for you and
         | television is garbage. Nothing is further from the truth.'
         | 
         | This seems very hyperbolic. I might agree with you if we are
         | talking about short form content...a magazine column vs
         | something similar in video format. And of course, selection
         | matters as well...watching one hour of a well vetted
         | documentary vs watching an hour of Love Island are going to
         | engage the brain differently.
         | 
         | Consuming books is a very active way of thinking, and consuming
         | video media is generally very passive. The research that needs
         | to go into getting a whole book across the finish line is
         | pretty staggering(again, if you're not choose complete trash).
         | Even when I read fiction, my brain has to create the imagery
         | from the text, in rough form...and that is kind of beautiful.
         | Watching an epic like Lord of the Rings...the scene is already
         | there...there is little room for your brain to interpret it any
         | other way.
         | 
         | Your comment about becoming more biased as one engages in one
         | direction of thinking definitely holds true...each "fact"
         | reinforces the held world view. Which is why it is great to try
         | to read things across a spectrum on one topic...its difficult,
         | but it gives way more perspective on the issues.
        
         | samsquire wrote:
         | I want and prefer things that are in this category of words:
         | 
         | good, light, love, faith, kindness, beauty, glory, majesty,
         | magnificence, sophistication, elegance, awe, fruit, colour,
         | right, righteousness, wholesome, truth, noble.
         | 
         | I think television, films and books focus on the opposite of
         | utopia. But if you know any that I would like, please
         | recommend.
        
           | webnrrd2k wrote:
           | fruit?
           | 
           | It seems out of place in your list. Is it an autocorrect
           | typo?
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | It's a bit silly to think that, for example, novels are
         | inherently better than television (and in fact in the 19th
         | century people complained about people wasting their time
         | reading novels much as modern people complain about television
         | and social media as time wasters), but in terms of nonfiction,
         | books simply provide more depth than any other source, except
         | perhaps academic papers.
        
       | 2143 wrote:
       | > Not getting very much out of Anna Karenina, supposedly one of
       | the aesthetic and emotional heights of human expression and
       | experience, doesn't feel great.
       | 
       | Incidentally, I have very recently stalled a second time on _Anna
       | Karenina_ , generally considered to be a masterpiece.
       | 
       | I'll probably revisit it later, but it's just not for me at the
       | moment.
       | 
       | Also, _The Idea Factory_ by Pepper White doesn 't seem to be very
       | popular (or maybe it is?). I first read it when I was in college
       | and loved it. Re-read it in grad-school and I loved it even more.
       | I think it was because I was in grad-school and could empathize
       | with the main character.
        
       | jekude wrote:
       | Amazing interview clip by Patrick Collison on his reading
       | strategy (as well as John's) -
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkh3BHP6KJ0
       | 
       | Very much echoes some of the sentiment from this article.
        
       | iamben wrote:
       | Fiction aside, I started reading the book summary in Blinkist
       | before I read the book. I've found it helpful to a) know whether
       | I want to actually read the book (ie, the fundamental ideas work
       | for/with me _right now_ , as per this article) and b) set me up
       | for "what's coming," which seems to help me digest it a bit
       | better. Obviously YMMV!
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | I think this a great strategy for many of the many self-
         | help/life management type books that come out now too. They
         | usually contain a few useful nuggets surrounded by a couple of
         | hundred pages of cherry picked anecdotes posing as evidence
         | and/or self-aggrandizing .
        
           | thanatropism wrote:
           | A better idea yet is to spend the time with Ralph Waldo
           | Emerson.
        
             | me_smith wrote:
             | What would be a good starting point with Emerson?
        
               | dunk010 wrote:
               | Presumably... Waldo?
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | Not without some solid companions that bludgeon
             | transcendetalism. For contemporaries, probably Poe. (On New
             | England Transcendentalism, specifically). Melville and
             | Hawthorne make good reads as well.
             | 
             | Emerson, like so many self-help books, offers what looks on
             | the surface trivial and immediately obvious, providing a
             | seemingly simple "if-only" path. Meanwhile, his ideas on
             | individualism have done untold damage to society as a
             | whole.
             | 
             | This isn't to imply something simple as "Emerson is wrong".
             | He has valid insights. But reading them in a vacuum,
             | assuming Emerson alone is sufficient reading, is not the
             | best approach.
             | 
             | Ultimately, it is no accident Emerson suggests to "set at
             | naught books and traditions", because that is the only way
             | his ideas can survive unscathed.
             | 
             | (fwiw, the advice of "read widely" holds for any given
             | book. Never believe one person has the answers)
        
           | sbysb wrote:
           | I have always said that you can gain more value from self-
           | help/life management type books by reading the table of
           | contents and then spending the time you would have read the
           | book just thinking about those topics and coming to your own
           | conclusions.
           | 
           | This is obviously a bit hyperbole but seriously most self
           | help books could be an article instead and I wouldn't miss
           | anything that was cut
        
             | jacurtis wrote:
             | Yeah most self-help books start off as viral articles,
             | popular newspaper editorals, or conference talks, and
             | publishers will then approach the creators of these ideas
             | and ask them to write a book about it.
             | 
             | The formula is simple, the idea you presented has already
             | demonstrated itself as extremely popular. But only a
             | thousand people can attend that conference, let's print it
             | as a book and sell it in airports, websites, and stores
             | around the world as a nice packaged book that everyone can
             | buy and it will surely be just as popular but we can sell
             | it to more people.
             | 
             | But then the problem. Writing down the original idea only
             | takes a few pages, maybe 10-20. So we let the author
             | expound a little, which brings it up to 80 pages. But still
             | no one is going to pay $20 for an 80 page book, so the
             | publishers ask them to break small sub-concepts into entire
             | chapters to get to the magical 275-325 page mark that 95%
             | of books sell at. These fit into shipping boxes well, every
             | store bookshelf is designed around this size, even US
             | Postal Service's "Media Mail" is optimized around this
             | sizing.
             | 
             | So in the end, you are left with most self-help books being
             | extremely padded to get to the the standard mass-market-
             | paperback size. So books that should be long blog posts or
             | a 15 min presentation get dragged out into 275 page epics
             | where it becomes clear by the end that the author has ran
             | out of stuff to say and is just filling the page count.
             | 
             | One great example right now is the top-selling book: "The
             | Subtle Art of Not Giving a F$&#". I highly recommend
             | everyone go to the nearest bookstore and read the first
             | introduction and first chapter. They are absolute gold. The
             | author summarizes the whole book in about 20 pages and does
             | an excellent job. It is well written, entertaining, and
             | enlightening. Everything you want in a good book. But then
             | you can put the book down and walk away. Because the next
             | 225 pages are just rehashing the same thing from the first
             | chapter. Repeating itself. The author is clearly trying to
             | reach the minimum 250 page count that the publisher will
             | allow. He is grasping at straws and just re-iterating the
             | same basic concept for 80% of the book. Sadly most self-
             | help books are the same thing. Great concepts that need to
             | be 20-50 pages.
        
       | carlossouza wrote:
       | > Third, book recommendation systems based on your reading
       | history can be helpful, but only so much.
       | 
       | Book recommendation systems should be a hybrid system with
       | content-based filtering and collaborative filtering systems.
       | 
       | Reading history (lagging indicator) + browsing history (leading
       | indicator) would form the basis of a content-based filtering.
       | 
       | The collaborative filtering part would ensure the system compares
       | users with same reading patterns.
       | 
       | A system like this should address all author's concerns.
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | There's lots of thornier issues that doesn't solve, like the
         | famous _Napoleon Dynamite_ problem from the Netflix challenge.
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | I think that at least once in a while one should read/watch
         | something that is not recommended based on stuff they've
         | read/watched before. Helps keeping the brain fresh.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > First, skipping sections that aren't good. > Second, dropping
       | books that aren't good.
       | 
       | I agree. This alone will make pretty much anyone read more, learn
       | more, and enjoy it more. Too many people feel this weird sense of
       | responsibility: having opened the book, I must read every word,
       | in order, until the last page, or I have failed at my job. A
       | healthier perspective is that books are there for you to use and
       | throw away as needed, not a sacred burden.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | Yes yes yes. Drop them if they don't click with you. Life's too
         | short.
         | 
         | I've even dropped a book by one of my favorite authors once. I
         | just couldn't stand it [Makes note to check what Neal
         | Stephenson wrote after Seveneves].
        
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