[HN Gopher] Can we please just go back to using smaller wheels a...
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       Can we please just go back to using smaller wheels and tires?
        
       Author : rntn
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2023-08-15 19:20 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | It seems like the article should have been "Can we please go back
       | to having spare tires in cars?" Shit happens. But these days half
       | the cars available don't include spares or a place to put them.
        
         | spicybright wrote:
         | I've never seen a car without a spare in the US. Maybe only in
         | sports/performance cars. What kind of cars are you talking
         | about?
        
           | LordGrey wrote:
           | I own a 2010 Camaro SS and it doesn't have a spare. Part of
           | that because those tires are HUGE -- I doubt I could fit one
           | into my trunk -- but also because the front and rear tires
           | are of different sizes. Which size should you carry?
           | 
           | Chevy also put my battery in the trunk for weight
           | distribution reasons, which makes the available space there
           | even less. Maybe they felt they could do that because there
           | was no spare.
           | 
           | I love my Camaro but it is definitely a "pay to play"
           | vehicle.
        
             | justinator wrote:
             | _> but also because the front and rear tires are of
             | different sizes. Which size should you carry?_
             | 
             | Oftentimes, spare wheels are very tiny compared to the
             | wheel they're replacing and just made to get you to the
             | tire place.
        
               | LordGrey wrote:
               | Yeah, every car other than the Camaro I've owned has had
               | a donut spare tire. I forgot to address that my original
               | comment.
               | 
               | The challenge with a donut on my car is trying to fit
               | over/around the brake calipers associated hardware.
               | 
               | I've been lucky so far: in the 13 years I've own the car,
               | I've had only one slow leak due to a nail. I haven't
               | needed a spare _yet_.
        
           | simplyaccont wrote:
           | most of hybrid cars don't have spares. my wife's mini
           | countryman didn't have spare (had runflats instead).
           | 
           | there is a trend to put instead of spare inflation kit +
           | sealant. costs savings and such
        
           | supportengineer wrote:
           | Have you seen a Tesla?
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | It's become relatively common over the last few years.
           | Especially with EVs (probably a mix of cost reduction, weight
           | reduction, and packaging problems). There's barely any EVs
           | that come with spares (Rivian, F-150, that might be it). Some
           | EVs based in ICE platforms like the Hyundai Kona have a place
           | to put it at least, or you can get aftermarket ones that live
           | in the back seat/trunk
        
           | favorited wrote:
           | The first car I ever bought new, a 2012 Hyundai Accent,
           | didn't come with one. It was a comparatively cheap car, but
           | it wasn't the cheapest package. A friend's Volvo sedan
           | (approx. same model year) also didn't come with one. My newer
           | Volkswagen did come with a donut, so I've definitely
           | experienced both.
           | 
           | Edit: none of these were hybrids or EVs, so it's not just
           | batteries.
        
         | massysett wrote:
         | ? I didn't know not having a spare tire was even a thing. I've
         | had flat tires twice and got back on the road in under 20
         | minutes after changing the tire. I'm glad I now know this is a
         | thing, so I can research new cars for this and avoid any model
         | that has no spare.
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | I think the problem is that tires are getting so big there's
           | no place to store the spare. Especially on EVs where you need
           | all the space you can get for the battery.
           | 
           | That being said all the cars I looked at when I bought my car
           | had a spare tire as an option (by default you wouldn't get
           | one)
        
         | eknkc wrote:
         | One of my previous cars came with no spare but "run flat" tires
         | (might be named something else). Basically they have strong
         | sidewalls that do not collapse even without pressure. You can
         | ride on them at much slower speeds to get to a tire shop. Loved
         | those.
         | 
         | My later cars both had no spares neither an emergency solution
         | like the previous one had. I used a foam tire sealer once,
         | worked wonders on a small puncture.
         | 
         | Couple weeks ago I managed to completely fuck up a tire on my
         | volvo with no spare. Had to call assistance number, they sent a
         | tow truck.. Spent half a day sorting it out.
        
       | elmerfud wrote:
       | So much wrong in this article, but some things are correct. First
       | a smaller rim and higher profile tire wouldn't have prevented the
       | problem. Whatever was hit was hard enough to knock a dime-sized
       | hole in his tire. That's almost three quarters of an inch or 18
       | mm for the rest of the world. This isn't some light scrubbing on
       | the sidewall or damaging your rim from a curb scrape. This is
       | full on you blasted into something and poked a god-awful-sized
       | hole into the side of your tire. No profile is going to save you
       | from that.
       | 
       | Second the trend of using these wheels and tire combinations is
       | partially because consumers want that look but primarily for
       | stability of these obnoxiously sized chassis to body ratio that
       | people want in vehicles. Partially due to emissions standards and
       | partially due to ride comfort manufacturers are using car chassis
       | and bolting on effectively high profile truck bodies to them
       | (that's your typical crossover). You put on a 14-in rim with a
       | 75% sidewall tire you have a handling nightmare that will result
       | in rollovers. Sticking a large rim with a small profile tire
       | greatly reduces that.
       | 
       | Lastly, yes larger rims are heavier and result in more unsprung
       | weight but the trade-off is (for a factory setup) always worth it
       | for increased handling and stability. This can reduce ride
       | comfort but since you're on a car chassis anyway the suspension
       | is making up the difference for what the tires used to do back in
       | the '80s and '70s and '60s.
       | 
       | This author seriously needs to go find a bone stock car from the
       | mid-70s or even the late 60s and compare it to what he has today.
       | I give this your range because bias tires are just garbage and by
       | the late 60s most manufacturers had started installing radials at
       | that point. Still cars were given high profile tires. A sports
       | car would not be uncommon to have a 225 65 R15 tire. Total mush
       | with atrocious handling. Still if you're going to smack curbs
       | enough to put dime-size holes in it the only thing it might save
       | is scratching up your steel rim which was also god awful heavy
       | compared to modern alloy rims that are bigger.
       | 
       | If you want smaller wheels and tires you need to go with smaller
       | overall vehicles. Manufacturers don't do this for looks as their
       | primary reason. They do it because it's what's required to keep
       | the car safe and stable and meet the safety standards that are
       | mandated. Nobody wants smaller cars because the safety rating
       | goes through the floor because smaller cars you can only make
       | them so safe due to the weight constraints of having a smaller
       | car.
        
         | spread_love wrote:
         | _Throw some D 's on that bitch [to keep the car safe and stable
         | and meet the mandated safety standards]_
         | 
         | -- Rich Boy
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | That's all well and good, but you can't tell me that I need 20"
         | wheels on my Ioniq 5 instead of 19"s just because I got the
         | glass roof. I'd rather have the 10 extra miles of range with
         | the 19"s.
         | 
         | OTOH, everyone who sees the car, almost to a person, comments
         | on how much they like the wheels.
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | In a word: no.
         | 
         | The rubber band tires are almost entirely for show. A 2024
         | Camry weighs in around 3,300 lbs and comes stock with 205/65-16
         | tires. A 1998 BMW 528i comes in somewhere north of 3,500 lbs
         | and came stock with 225/60-15 tires that have a taller sidewall
         | than the Camry. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the
         | Camry rides and handles better.                  Nobody wants
         | smaller cars because the safety rating goes through the floor
         | 
         | A 2023 Corolla and 2000 3-series are roughly the same weight.
         | Both got "good" ratings from the IIHS across all the tests.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | > No profile is going to save you from that.
         | 
         | Low profile tires are stiffer and should therefore be damaged
         | more easily.
         | 
         | There's no way to tell from the story how the accident
         | happened, but I wouldn't rule out that a more flexible tire
         | would have just deformed instead of tearing.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | I have a big modern German SUV that came with 20" wheels...
         | going down to 17 massively improved ride quality and offroad
         | ability without hurting stability or handling significantly.
         | There are some reasons why we don't want to go back to 60s
         | wheel sizes, but they still should be a lot smaller than they
         | are now.
        
         | twoWhlsGud wrote:
         | Consumer Reports, which presumably has test driven a wider
         | array of cars than you or me, is pretty much constantly
         | complaining about how the trend toward larger wheels is
         | compromising ride quality. (In particular, when discussing trim
         | levels they often count the larger rims you get with higher
         | trim levels as a negative.)
         | 
         | Given that the weight and size of vehicles has constantly been
         | increasing (largely due to the auto co's "nice family you got,
         | pity if something ... happened to it" marketing campaigns) some
         | increase in size would make sense from a perf standpoint. I
         | think the author's argument is that it's gone far beyond that.
         | And CU, at least, seems to agree.
        
       | orangepurple wrote:
       | People equip cars with huge wheels for the same reason homeowners
       | plant large swaths of grass over highly productive land: the
       | aristocratic image of being able to afford to waste and being
       | above the peasantry.
       | 
       | Donks are a clear cut example of this within that subculture.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-15 23:02 UTC)