[HN Gopher] Privacy friendly ESP32 smart doorbell with Home Assi...
___________________________________________________________________
Privacy friendly ESP32 smart doorbell with Home Assistant local
integration
Author : rcarmo
Score : 303 points
Date : 2023-08-15 09:46 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tristam.ie)
(TXT) w3m dump (tristam.ie)
| bloopernova wrote:
| offtopic: My wife has fairly extreme ADD and loses stuff a lot.
| Tiles only work to locate something within a certain distance,
| and often seem to break.
|
| I know it's a longshot, but has anyone here created a home
| positioning system for home that can use Bluetooth low energy
| beacons to locate objects to within a couple of centimetres in 3D
| space?
|
| More ontopic: ESP32s are pretty amazing. Although I've not been
| able to keep mine stable and connected to wifi with MicroPython
| or CircuitPython, the range of stuff that's possible is
| astonishing. Mine is fairly old, I probably should get a newer
| one to see if it makes a difference.
| sintezcs wrote:
| I have ESP32 devkit board running micropython that is connected
| to Wi-Fi and MQTT and publishes sensor readings 24/7 for weeks
| without any issues
| bloopernova wrote:
| What type of ESP32 is it? S3?
| sintezcs wrote:
| ESP32-WROOM (https://amzn.eu/d/eWz90s8)
| nirav72 wrote:
| Thanks for this. I had no idea a ESP32 board with built-
| in PoE existed. I've been using a PoE to micro-USB
| adapter to power a ESP board. While it works, the adapter
| just doesn't look very clean when mounted on wall.
| Berazu wrote:
| DIY Airtags: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack
| bloopernova wrote:
| Thank you!
| [deleted]
| robbles wrote:
| Not quite to your specs, but have you tried https://www.room-
| assistant.io/?
| DrFlipper wrote:
| >MicroPython or CircuitPython
|
| Well, what do you expect? These are verboten for any kind of
| reliable embedded system.
| Reviving1514 wrote:
| On the contrary Micropython is even used in medical devices.
|
| I've used it extensively and it is great. With ESP32
| peripherals you can even get extremely tight timings
| depending on what specifically you need. And of course any
| specific performance critical code can be written in C and
| everything else can be micropython.
|
| It's great, definitely worth exploring.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovngSLXoxw
| sintezcs wrote:
| Moreover you can even work with the ULP co-processor from
| micropython using assembly directly from micropython code.
| https://github.com/micropython/micropython-esp32-ulp
| sintezcs wrote:
| Trezor hardware crypto wallet is also running on
| micropython
| joelthelion wrote:
| Is there a manufacturer that sells these things pre-assembled?
| I'm sure quite a few people would be ready to pay good money for
| privacy-respecting, open-source hardware in this area.
| tristor wrote:
| Very relevant to my interests. My plan right now is when we send
| my teen off to college to build a house to passive house
| standards, and in the process wire it up to do all the smart home
| things in a locally controlled/non-cloud manner.
|
| Local cameras have been a thing forever, as is local access
| control and thermostats, but video doorbells surprisingly have
| primarily been cloud based in their history.
|
| I haven't gone super deep into home assistant yet, but my plan is
| to use a mix of direct control and HomeKit commercial offerings.
| ex3ndr wrote:
| Unifi gives you perfect local doorbell
| LastWeekendWas wrote:
| "Privacy friendly"
|
| Time was, if a neighbour insisted on daily filming a family
| entering and leaving their own home, they would have been given a
| smack in the mouth for being a nosy bastard.
|
| Quite how recording your neighbours has become socially
| acceptable I will never understand.
| blitzar wrote:
| > Quite how recording your neighbours has become socially
| acceptable I will never understand
|
| It isnt - I consider it a blank cheque for 100k whenever I want
| to cash it.
| nixgeek wrote:
| How? I'm curious if you can share any case precedent,
| particularly examples of such a high amount being awarded?
|
| In most U.S. jurisdictions, including WA (which has some of
| the more stringent law regulating recording), if you're stood
| on their property or even on the street, surveillance of you
| is legal. About the only obligation you _may_ have is to post
| signage.
|
| Recording audio conversations is a bit trickier. In WA, they
| have RCW 9.73.110 [1] which does make provision for any
| cameras "within [the] building" recording audio -- it's
| therefore generally best for exterior cameras to *not* record
| audio given WA is a two-party consent state (with a few
| exceptions).
|
| Edit: Looks like the person making this ESP32-based solution
| is in Ireland, which has its own peculiarities but with a bit
| of effort, it seems like you'd have no issues there either
| [2].
|
| [1] https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.110
|
| [2] https://smartzone.ie/are-home-cctv-systems-legal-in-
| ireland-...
| blitzar wrote:
| I am referring to surveillence of myself on my property.
|
| UK: https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/blog/neighbour-cctv-
| harassment...
|
| https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-
| content/uploads/2022/07/Fairhurs...
|
| Previously - Scotland: https://www.lexology.com/library/det
| ail.aspx?g=854e9b90-2dab...
|
| Daily Mail on the issue: Could EVERY doorbell camera owner
| face PS100,000 fine after landmark ruling? How
| inadvertently filming neighbours and storing footage
| breaches their privacy under new data protection laws
| https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10087671/EVERY-
| Ring...
|
| Depending on the specific circumstances, the domestic use
| of CCTV could be challenged if its use amounted to
| harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
| nixgeek wrote:
| "Up to PS100k", damages don't appear to have been decided
| in that case based on a Google? It's also a case which
| has some egregious aspects to it, which the Daily Mail is
| ignoring in their haste to write another sensationalist
| headline.
|
| Some of the analysis away from the front pages has been
| interesting [1] though:
|
| "During the hearing, some of the main issues under
| investigation related to:
|
| the field and depth of view of each camera, in particular
| whether they couldn't 'see' Dr Fairhurst or her visitors
| entering and leaving her property, her car, or the car
| park;
|
| the sensitivity of their microphones;
|
| the extent to which the devices activated themselves
| automatically, or were triggered, to capture, transmit or
| record video images and/or associated audio from the
| field of view;
|
| whether Mr Woodard consulted neighbours sufficiently
| before installation or provided adequate notices or
| warnings after installation of the equipment; and
|
| how and for what purpose Mr Woodard stored and processed
| the data produced by his devices."
|
| It looks like neighbor tried to solve this without a
| court case and he was perhaps not receptive to that
| approach.
|
| [1] https://www.traverssmith.com/knowledge/knowledge-
| container/f...
| tjoff wrote:
| Which is why this is illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (if you
| can see outside of your own yard).
| vetinari wrote:
| In some jurisdictions even worse: not just outside your own
| yard, but also publicly-available parts of your own yard
| (i.e. in front of a gate or fence, or specifically separated
| areas available to wandering members of public).
| turtlebits wrote:
| If it's publicly available, it isn't part of your yard.
| [deleted]
| bityard wrote:
| Which jurisdictions? In the US, at least, you can legally
| film anything and anyone from your own property, and from
| public property like roads, sidewalks, parks, etc.
| vetinari wrote:
| EU (see comment above).
| zo1 wrote:
| This is all done by government to effectively disempower the
| citizens from doing things themselves or in any sort of
| cooperative manner (even if provably safe etc etc). Oddly
| enough they turn around and then refuse to protect the
| citizens from such petty crime.
|
| I'm starting to think it's all a giant "bullshit" test to see
| how far they can push people's obedience. Or they end up
| conveniently filtering out the people they don't act obedient
| to the level of filter they've set with their stupid laws and
| non-enforcement of existing ones like theft.
| tjoff wrote:
| Uh? Is privacy really such a strange concept?
| XorNot wrote:
| A guy advocates assault and then wonders why people are filming
| everything.
| NegativeK wrote:
| Due to the prevalence of porch pirates, people compromised.
|
| I refuse to have cloud connected cameras, but I understand why
| my neighbors have made the choices they have.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| Clearly the porch pirate problem is best solved by the
| delivery people not leaving stuff on porches. This does not
| happen in other countries.
| Null-Set wrote:
| What do the delivery people do instead?
| IshKebab wrote:
| Leave it with a neighbour, attempt redelivery the next
| day, let you collect it from a delivery office, hide it
| in a less obvious safe place.
|
| Usually they give you the choice of what to do.
|
| Though having said that, I live in the UK and do
| occasionally just get parcels left on my very public
| doorstep. It's the exception though.
| userabchn wrote:
| Where I live you had to be home to receive packages. If
| you weren't, you had to go to a distribution centre to
| collect them. During the pandemic it seemed to change, so
| now they just leave them at your front door, and it
| hasn't gone back.
| teddyh wrote:
| You get an email, SMS ("text message" for non-Europeans),
| or a paper in your (physical) mailbox informing you that
| you have a package waiting at such-and-such a place
| (within walking distance if in a city), or there's a
| reference to how you can choose your pickup spot from a
| handful of options.
| mminer237 wrote:
| That's an option in the US, but going to Walgreens to
| pick up every package is a much bigger hassle than just
| opening your door. In very high-crime areas, that's what
| people do (or get their own lockbox), but in most places
| in the US trying to prevent the crime is still more
| popular than trying to avoid it.
| nine_k wrote:
| In a city, porch piracy is a non-issue if you live in an
| apartment building with a lobby. You can open the door to
| the lobby remotely.
|
| I wonder if a remotely openable porch-side "mail box"
| would find a market.
| dfee wrote:
| Speaking of porch pirates, what are you going to do when a
| porch pirate strikes your house? Take down their license
| plate? Call the police?
|
| I'm cynical, but I imagine it goes like this:
|
| "Hello, this is 911, how can we help you?"
|
| "I'd like to report a 39.99 board game stolen off my porch,
| license plate ZXX-1234"
|
| "Sir, this line is for emergencies. Have you filed a claim
| with Amazon?"
|
| Porch cameras drive mass paranoia. If you're not prepared to
| act on the information yourself, you're just feeding your own
| fear.
| lokar wrote:
| You post the image to Nextdoor and everyone comments on the
| decline of western civilization and moves on with their
| days.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| There is a non 911 phone number for contacting local police
| if not in an emergency.
| IshKebab wrote:
| True, but they're still not going to do anything about
| your stolen package. You could have video evidence and a
| license plate. Doesn't matter.
| zirgs wrote:
| A thief like that doesn't steal just one package.
| Multiple thefts like that can easily add up to a felony
| amount. This is why the theft still should be reported.
| The cops won't look for that package specifically, but
| they could bust that thief for something else.
| cameronh90 wrote:
| An Amazon driver left a parcel for me and didn't ring the
| bell, then a few minutes later someone stole it. I ran
| outside, chased them down and took it back.
|
| The police took the report, but obviously they weren't
| interested in coming out to take the details of the thief
| or help me recover the package.
|
| The doorbells also notify you of packages that have been
| left outside and let you answer the door remotely, which
| are both useful even if you can't go Blade Runner.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| Porch pirates and various vandals.
|
| Of course, Rings are essentially worthless for vehicle
| identification. You would need LPC (License Plate Capture)
| cameras set up in two directions just for that. They aren't
| even particularly good for facial identification.
|
| Really, if you wanted something actionable, you would do what
| I had seen someone else done, which was capture plates _and_
| have the right cameras _and_ ... as the secret sauce, an IMEI
| catcher, filtering out the usuals and highlighting who just
| blasted past.
|
| If it is one of the Kia Boys around here, they just get out
| and re-offend.
| jszymborski wrote:
| People have been idly watching their neighbors since neighbors
| have existed.
|
| The problem becomes when a corporation begins filming most
| neighborhoods and then handing it over to the cops w/o a
| warrant.
|
| As for the smacking of mouths, I'm glad certain norms have
| changed.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| Can esp32 have lan + poe ?
|
| So that you are not relying on WiFi?
| Mister_Snuggles wrote:
| There are ESP32 boards with ethernet and PoE. This device[0]
| uses one and it works very well.
|
| I'm not aware of any ESP32 boards with a camera and ethernet
| though, but I haven't gone looking on AliExpress either. It's a
| reasonable combination, so I'd be surprised if it didn't exist.
|
| [0] https://smartlight.me/smart-home-devices/zigbee-
| devices/smli...
| patmorgan23 wrote:
| You can probably get a PoE hat/board but I don't think it's
| built-in
| nilsb wrote:
| Doesn't the ESP32 have internal pull-up resistors, thereby making
| that extra resistor unnecessary?
| _Microft wrote:
| I wonder if the following would do the trick at line #47 [0]:
| pin: number: GPIO14 mode: INPUT_PULLDOWN
|
| This is a suggestion based purely on two minutes of web search,
| not on experience, though.
|
| [0] https://github.com/thatguy-za/esp32-cam-
| doorbell/blob/main/e...
| blackfawn wrote:
| The ESP32 does have internal pull-up and pull-down resistors on
| certain pins. I believe GPIO14 on this board maps to GPIO22 on
| the ESP32 chip (mismatched IO pin labels is bit of a pet peeve
| for me!) which does have pull-up and pull-down resistors that
| can be enabled. If it were me, I might tie the doorbell switch
| button from GPIO0 to ground. This pin has a pull-up resistor as
| it needs to be high to boot normally. So this has the added
| benefit that you can hold the button in when you first power
| the device to put it in flash mode, which also eliminates their
| "Make sure to get one with a "flash/download/io0" button"
| warning.
|
| If you have an "old fashioned" 24VAC line, you could add a
| rectifier and buck/step-down power module to drop that to 5VDC.
| Or just unhook the 24VAC transformer and install a 5VDC one.
|
| It would have been neat to see how much the RGB ring lighting
| up white helps in no/low light cases. All in all, nice writeup!
| dtgriscom wrote:
| It's a pull-down resistor.
| dewert wrote:
| I believe there's also an INPUT_PULLDOWN option, at least on
| some of the pins.
| hnbad wrote:
| Based on reviews I've seen, the Reolink doorbell camera seems to
| be the only commercial option that fits the author's
| requirements. It works locally and can be integrated into Home
| Assistant. It does however require a separate app for the
| intercom but the author's homegrown solution does not seem to
| provide any audio communication and there doesn't seem to be a
| way to have two-way audio in Home Assistant directly, at least
| not via the camera protocol.
| tamu_nerd wrote:
| Amcrest makes one as well that supports local-only and
| integrates with home assistant.
| EthicalSimilar wrote:
| UniFi Doorbell? It doesn't require a cloud connection and
| remains local, can be integrated into HomeAssistant / Scrypted
| / Homebridge.
| nolan879 wrote:
| UniFi doorbell requires a UniFi NVR, and maybe UniFi console/
| AP. The non-pro doorbells require wifi. POE is only an option
| on the with the Pro doorbells via a proprietary USB-C to POE
| cable.
| samch wrote:
| I am currently using 2 of the G4 Pro doorbells. They are
| direct PoE to my UDM-Pro SE without any adapters. The
| recordings are stored locally and are private.
| vetinari wrote:
| Your UDM-Pro-SE is where you run your Unifi Protect. I.e.
| you need to have another device from the same vendor that
| supports NVR functionality.
|
| The above mentioned Reolink doorbell will happily run
| with any NVR from any other vendor that supports relevant
| standards (ONVIF). Or even without NVR (it has microsd
| slot for local storage on device).
| samch wrote:
| My UDM-Pro-SE has a 12TB hard drive in it and acts as the
| NVR itself without issues. I do not need any APs
| (doorbells are direct wired PoE), and I do not need a
| separate NVR.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| Why not use a pi zero if you have it at hand?
| matthewfelgate wrote:
| Then you might be able to do two way audio and video so you can
| speak to the person at the front door remotely.
| adolph wrote:
| An MCU uses less power, is faster to start from a quiescent
| state and typically is lower cost than hardware intended to
| support a full operating system.
|
| That said, there are some who flash Pi Zeroes as "bare metal"
| or no operating system:
|
| https://github.com/dwelch67/raspberrypi-zero
| bombcar wrote:
| All I want for these IoT things is being non-cloud dependent and
| PoE. I will run a billion wires before dealing with stupid
| batteries that keep dying, and they're getting so expensive, too.
| jmbwell wrote:
| PoE ESP32 for DIY IoT, fyi:
|
| Non-isolated:
| https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-POE/open-sou...
|
| Isolated: https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-POE-
| ISO/open...
| bacon_waffle wrote:
| These little boards are great - I'd recommend the isolated
| version for anything that might be referenced back to ground
| potential.
|
| We have one in an OpenEVSE, it's been ticking along no
| problems for a couple years now. In that scenario, in theory
| the PoE allows the ESP32 to detect if the EVSE breaker pops -
| I've not had that happen, but it seemed like a worthwhile
| feature to consider ;).
| paco3346 wrote:
| Awesome, I've been using the wESP (https://wesp32.com/) for
| most things but I like the size (and price point) of these.
|
| Granted, they fit different use cases as the wESP has more
| I/O exposed but is quite a bit larger.
| dheera wrote:
| I want solar powered. The doorbell probably gets pressed what,
| once in 5 days? Cover the enclosure of that thing in solar
| panels and have some super-capacitors for overnight power.
| mostthingsweb wrote:
| Can't help you with PoE, but Home Assistant is non-cloud by
| default.
| stavros wrote:
| I find Zigbee a great protocol for that. It runs locally
| (doesn't even go on wifi), and the sensors last for years on a
| coin cell.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, Zigbee works well.
|
| The real killer is when you want to "do something physical"
| in the real world _on batteries_ , like unlock a door, etc.
|
| That nobody has come up with a powered doorjamb instead of
| powered deadbolts is annoying; I'll have to build one myself
| using something like
| https://www.americanlocksets.com/hes-1006cdb-electric-
| smart-...
| stavros wrote:
| Ah, yeah, mechanical things require a lot of energy,
| unfortunately.
|
| That said, I'd love an ESP32 for Zigbee. I bought an H2,
| but the documentation hasn't been good enough that I could
| make it work.
| mtreis86 wrote:
| Yep. Running the wires once is a big pain but it is linear at
| worst, more devices requires more wires, maybe even log growth
| since you can branch at junction boxes that already exist.
| Changing the batteries once a year is only a little pain, but
| it adds up fast when you have dozens of them, and it takes
| place routinely so it no better than linear growth.
| bombcar wrote:
| The door lock not being able to unlock because the batteries
| had died trying to keep marginal Wi-Fi operating was the
| kicker for me. Very annoying.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| Home infrastructure for power and data is due for a switch.
| Copper is expensive, and running 120V at 15A everywhere is
| really overkill with a 3w led bulb being blindingly bright
| and needing dc. Electronics largely are all hooked to USB-c
| chargers at this point. The poe to USB-c splitters are
| largely 5v at this point, but poe can produce over 70W
| depending on type, so it doesn't have to stay that way.
| Ideally, daya could be bridged as well, plug in usb-c start
| charging and it looks like a network adapter too. The
| number of things that need more than 70w isn't that high.
| Kitchen mostly. Bigger TVs. Real beefy laptops or desktop
| computers. If they made a new POE standard that could
| support USB PD3.1 you could run anything outside the
| kitchen other than the a/c. That would probably mean a new
| cable standard though. Even just as things stand, POE could
| largely replace electrical wiring outside the kitchen.
| nixgeek wrote:
| Ring mains in UK are 230V and is a more frugal approach
| to conductor usage, both because of higher voltage and
| the wiring being a ring.
| bombcar wrote:
| You tea-lovers can also boil water electrically twice as
| fast as we can, it's unfair. I've seriously considered
| adding a UK-style 230v plug to the kitchen so I can use
| an imported electric kettle.
| dylan604 wrote:
| can you tap into your oven/stove 220v source? unless
| you're boiling water non-stop while trying to bake the
| thanksgiving turkey at the same time, there shouldn't be
| an issue
| Cerium wrote:
| Most ways of doing that won't be to code. It would be
| better to add it as a separate circuit.
| dublinben wrote:
| You can buy UL-certified commercial products that
| intelligently split a 240V outlet to two different
| loads.[0] They're popular in the EV community for
| avoiding the cost of a dedicated circuit for charging.
|
| [0] https://getneocharge.com/products/neocharge-smart-
| splitter
| bombcar wrote:
| Code lets you do the weirdest things - you can't tap into
| the oven circuit with a separate outlet, but you can
| install a sub panel in place of the oven outlet, then run
| two lines from the sub panel, one to the oven outlet, and
| one to the kitchen plug.
|
| All they care about is that you can't run more current
| down a wire than it's rated for.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| My house is over a century old, nothing is to code
| anyway. I'm wondering if I could get away with a 20A 120v
| line meant for a microwave, and swap the neutral to the
| other leg and wire it to a type e connector. Type e is
| 16a so the current is fine, but the insulation was
| intended to separate 120 not 240.
| bombcar wrote:
| The insulation is rated for 600v almost certainly unless
| you're running the original knob and tube, in which case
| you have other issues to consider.
|
| Each leg of 240 is only 120, so it'd probably work.
|
| Don't do it! But if you do it make sure it's breakered
| correctly and use a AFCI/GFCI combo breaker.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I went and asked an electrician. With a 240V 15A breaker
| it is completely to code as long as there is absolutely
| nothing else on the circuit. If there are lights or light
| switches it is a no go, and if there are other outlets,
| they would have to be either removed or swapped to the
| type e outlet as well. I find it weird they don't have a
| neutral ober there.
| nixgeek wrote:
| Hair straighteners and hairdryers also work better in the
| UK than they do in the U.S. for the same reason.
|
| We have some IEC 60309 outlets for IT/AV equipment
| cabinets wired as 2P+E with both phases presented for
| 240V (no neutral). You can get PDUs which are happy with
| 200-250V, and the PSUs in a lot of servers and switches
| are happy with 100-250V 50-60Hz.
| mavhc wrote:
| Our thermostats are 230V too, so stupid
| vineyardmike wrote:
| I'm working on building a home and have been
| investigating this seriously. I want to put multiple POE
| outlets in every room, and running them to places that
| are common for automation (eg for cameras, motion
| sensors, control displays, etc). I wish I could get wired
| sensors for doors/windows but the pricing is honestly way
| higher than just Zigbee with a battery once for factor in
| wires in the walls and a centralized patch panel.
|
| I never thought about converting POE to USBC-PD but that
| would be a great thing to add to the "office" and
| locations where someone may very occasionally want power
| for a laptop (eg near couch, beds)
|
| I'm exclusively using "normal" 120v outlets that also
| have a 5v usb port on it, and placing extra where I can,
| which is less crazy but still practical.
| tikkabhuna wrote:
| Ubiquiti are using PoE for almost everything. It's nice
| to be able to run a network cable and have it power
| cameras, wifi access points, switches, etc.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| I know they've had their ups/downs in terms of business
| models and security (and product availabillity!) but I'm
| moving almost fully to Unifi for that reason. I don't
| want 120v power cords everywhere, I like the managed
| aspect of it. Cat6 into either powered PoE switches or
| PoE to PoE switches that are hard to reach so that
| multiple nearby devices can be used is so nice.
| conradev wrote:
| Leviton already makes the power version of this in my
| opinion:
|
| https://www.leviton.com/en/products/residential/usb-
| charger-...
|
| Move the USB-C PD inverters to be integrated into the
| outlets, instead of plugged in on top. I already did this
| upgrade for all counter-height outlets in my kitchen, and
| it's great!
|
| The holy grail, of course, would be ethernet/data as
| well, but that is far more cost prohibitive
| bradstewart wrote:
| Those are nice for reducing clutter (I have some), but
| you're still running 120v on 12ga copper into every one
| of them.
| bloopernova wrote:
| It's Big Wallwart, keeping us all down to prop up the
| transformer industry!
|
| More seriously, would there be any electrical or
| interference issues with running usb-c power delivery
| cables everywhere?
| bombcar wrote:
| The problem with low-voltage is lengths. I don't know how
| far USB-C _as such_ can reasonably go.
|
| PoE, of course, can go as far as the ethernet (usually)
| and so any future low-voltage system in homes will
| probably be based on it (it's already used in some
| commercial setups).
| mtreis86 wrote:
| The other problem is wire size, since the amps go up as
| volts go down, and the heat generated in the wire is
| proportional to the amps, not the watts.
|
| So to carry the same power, a lower voltage wire has to
| be thicker.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, the advantage is when the power usages is _way
| below_ normal mains. We already see it (I have lights in
| my kitchen that have one transformer connected to the
| mains, and then all the rest of the wiring is low-
| voltage).
| vetinari wrote:
| There's a reason why you want higher voltages: to
| minimize losses in conduits; i.e. you can move more
| effectively 12W in 120V/0.1A rather than 12V/1A -- the
| lower current, the lower resistance.
|
| There are no 12V standards for wiring buildings, because
| effectivity-wise, it make no sense. Even the above-
| mentioned PoE is 48-56V (56V, so it can be 48V at the
| other end of up to the 100m long cable). The 5-12-20V USB
| PD is for relatively short cables, not for something that
| goes around your house.
| bloopernova wrote:
| Thank you for the informative reply, Lord Patrician!
|
| Is it straightforward to step down the voltage from PoE
| to something that USB-C can use? My Forest M Mims
| Electronics book sits unread and dusty in a box somewhere
| so I'm not really able to interpret the schematics google
| is showing me :/ (apologies for extra questions)
| dylan604 wrote:
| what's the difference in having a 120v->5v wall wart vs
| 48v->5v one?
| bombcar wrote:
| Usually it's inside the wall (you can do this with USB
| outlets, too, which I recommend if you've already got
| 120v power).
|
| But people who are uncomfortable running mains will often
| be fine running "low voltage" lines like ethernet.
| vetinari wrote:
| There are PoE-to-USBC adapters available; random pick on
| Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087F4QCTR (this one is
| af, 5V/12W and plain USB; no at, no QC or PD. If you need
| that, you will surely find it).
|
| For DYI, there are dc-to-dc convertors available. Or do
| you intent to build your own?
| bloopernova wrote:
| It was more for curiosity's sake, but it's really cool
| that there's already converters. My project is very much
| in the "hey it would be nice if" stage right now, but I'm
| on the Python track at Exercism and want some "small"
| projects lined up once I'm finished there.
|
| The idea is: pull in a quick 3D sketch of a home. Place
| (USB-C via PoE-power?) ESP32/Pi/Other devices at specific
| points with very precise measurements between them. Use
| them to determine the exact position in 3D house-space of
| Bluetooth low energy beacons. Use that info to help my
| very ADD wife find the things she loses. (because Tiles
| often fail)
|
| A lot of the code to calculate position from timings
| already seems to be out there so I can cargo-cult things
| over.
|
| In a far-too-roundabout way, that sorta kinda answers
| your question.
| Ajedi32 wrote:
| It's a shame LK-99 didn't pan out. Cheap superconducting
| wire would have been awesome for this.
| megraf wrote:
| I'm currently running a very expensive PoE doorbell that I was
| able to buy in 'AS-IS' condition to save some money. It's an Axis
| Communications product.
|
| I really love the ability to listen for ONVIF events; it expands
| the flexibility of products like this because you can essentially
| do whatever you want if you consume the events. There are even
| ways to create custom events (for example, if someone covers the
| camera lens with their hands, etc).
|
| Home Assistant has excellent ONVIF support - I'd like to create a
| wrapper of sorts around scripts (Boolean door open, door close
| stuff) in order to get the native ONVIF events
| acidburnNSA wrote:
| Nice. I like the lights.
|
| You can also slap a reed switch (e.g. a normal door open/close
| sensor) near your dumb doorbell's magnetic coils that do the
| ringer and have it send the info to home assistant.
|
| I hooked a $0.50 reed switch up to my dumb doorbell and ran it to
| a digital IO port on a ESP that's powered from the same power
| source as the doorbell coils. When it senses a doorbell press, it
| sends me an email snapshot from my local-only front door cam and
| plays a recording of the doorbell chime on my upstairs stereo
| (where otherwise I can't really hear the chime). Very convenient
| and fun.
|
| Originally, I tried monitoring voltage on the coils with the
| analog input, but it was way too unreliable. The simpler reed
| switch method of detecting current is rock solid.
| rcarmo wrote:
| I did exactly the same and use an Aqara Zigbee contact sensor
| (which has a reed switch inside) inserted into the actual
| doorbell (which has a convenient flat spot above the coil).
| Works great.
| acidburnNSA wrote:
| Yes, this is the "consumer grade" version of this that
| doesn't require any ESP programming or whatever. Easy and
| simple, integrates with other hubs just fine. Brilliant.
| barbazoo wrote:
| > You can also slap a reed switch (e.g. a normal door
| open/close sensor) near your dumb doorbell's magnetic coils
|
| > The simpler reed switch method of detecting current is rock
| solid.
|
| That's really clever! I'm gonna try that. Thanks for sharing.
| adolph wrote:
| > same power source as the doorbell coils
|
| Beautiful thinking. I wonder what other obscure sources for
| voltage in a house could be used? The HVAC head unit, analog
| telephone, ...
|
| _The POTS [(Plain Old Telephone Service)] phone line, with all
| phones on-hook, should measure around 48 volts DC. This drops
| down to the 3 to 9 volt range when a telephone on the line goes
| off-hook. An off-hook telephone typically draws about 20
| milliamps of DC current to operate, at a DC resistance around
| 180 ohms. The remaining voltage drop occurs over the copper
| wire path and over the telephone company circuits where there
| is usually 200 to 400 ohms of series resistance to protect from
| short circuits and decouple the audiocircuits._
|
| https://www.jkaudio.com/article_03.htm
| westurner wrote:
| If the POTS cables daisy-chained between the telephone jacks
| _after the telco 's box_ are 4-pair Ethernet, there are 8
| wires between each receptacle/port less 2 wires for each
| phone line. If only one phone line has ever been connected
| and there are 4pair (Ethernet,) cables between the phone
| jacks, there are 3 spare wire pairs that could be connected
| in a local private closed loop in order to carry (modulated)
| DC voltage for other applications; though you'd need to put
| like a thermal sticker label after the box and behind/on all
| the phone jacks to warn about the voltage (which is a
| presumed risk when handling 4pair cabling as an installer, as
| a (demo) contractor, as a future occupant)
|
| Gigabit Ethernet uses all 4 pairs for data, so _Gigabit_ PoE
| and faster must have data _+power_ on one or more pairs.
|
| From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet :
|
| > _In addition to standardizing existing practice for spare-
| pair (Alternative B), common-mode data pair power
| (Alternative A) and 4-pair transmission (4PPoE), the IEEE PoE
| standards provide for signaling between the power sourcing
| equipment (PSE) and powered device (PD). This signaling
| allows the presence of a conformant device to be detected by
| the power source, and allows the device and source to
| negotiate the amount of power required or available while
| avoiding damage to non-compatible devices._
| fullstop wrote:
| Do you have problems with reed switches getting stuck? I've had
| fantastic luck with hall sensors for this purpose, but maybe I
| was just looking at low quality reed switches.
| acidburnNSA wrote:
| Never, at least that I've noticed. I guess it'd be hard to
| tell if I missed any doorbell rings technically.
| fullstop wrote:
| No, in the cases that I'm talking about it gets stuck in
| one position. If you google "reed switch stuck" you'll see
| what I'm talking about. I figured that a hall sensor has no
| moving parts so it should last essentially forever.
| squarefoot wrote:
| When contacts, including reed switches, normal switches,
| relays, etc, get stuck, it usually is because of sparks due
| to voltage spikes that weld the contacts together. this
| happens when contacts are used with high currents/voltages
| and/or inductive loads, and can be avoided using so called
| snubber networks.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snubber
| fullstop wrote:
| Ah, that's interesting. So for OP's purpose it will likely
| run indefinitely since there's essentially zero load.
| beAbU wrote:
| It's interesting how in some places in the world the presence of
| a doorbell is so important that there's a need to make it
| "smart". The success of smart doorbell products demonstrates this
| need nicely.
|
| I have no doorbell. If a visitor does not know how to get hold of
| me or the other inhabitants of my property, then they probably
| have no business being there in the first place.
|
| I am not alone in this. Most people in my street are the same
| (based on my very unscientific study last week while out on a
| walk), and probably most of my city is like this (again, based on
| my own unscientific study)
| e28eta wrote:
| I think some demand for smart doorbells is to handle the
| "unknown visitor" problem: notify the homeowner that someone is
| at the door even when they're away from home, and the ability
| to disguise that the house is unoccupied.
| gh02t wrote:
| Also lets you tell when people approach the door but don't
| ring, especially if you have some kind of person detection
| going. My mailman drops stuff on the porch all the time and
| never bothers to ring the doorbell which is annoying, but I
| get a little beep and a thumbnail inside from my home
| automation platform to let me know someone was on the porch.
|
| Plus generally having a recording of your front porch area is
| useful for security. I've been able to pull video recordings
| of stuff to prove/disprove things happened, for instance when
| the mailman ran over a bunch of stuff in my front yard and
| drove off.
| sgt wrote:
| > I have no doorbell. If a visitor does not know how to get
| hold of me or the other inhabitants of my property, then they
| probably have no business being there in the first place.
|
| Sounds pretty cold. I've had neighbors come over to introduce
| themselves, some even with welcoming gifts when we bought the
| house and moved in. I'd hate to just shut myself out of the
| society like that.
| switch007 wrote:
| Our houses in the UK are so small that a knock usually
| suffices.
|
| Doorbells feel anachronistic. Barely anyone on my street has
| one!
| callalex wrote:
| Do you never order any packages off the internet? Or receive
| certified mail from the tax authority? The reason smart
| doorbells in particular have taken off is that it's an easy
| place to tap into a power source that's already available
| outside of the home.
| beAbU wrote:
| The delivery person has my number, because it's on my order /
| courier waybill. They typically phone me. I have a fence, so
| my door is not accessible from the street for a knock.
|
| I have a postbox at my local post office. My official mailing
| address points there. My tax authorty and (and all other
| governmental or official correspondence for that matter) is
| sent via email. I get almost no paper mail these days, and
| most of what I do get is junk.
| yardie wrote:
| ESP32 is such a rabbit hole. I have so many projects using or in
| development with them. And now I have another one to keep in
| mind. Thanks OP!
| styluss wrote:
| Which ones are you building?
| yardie wrote:
| LED strip light controller. The cheap ones have none or
| limited integration with most HA platforms and I can't
| justify spending on the more expensive ones just to add
| Homekit.
|
| AQ monitor. I work indoors a lot and I think the migraines
| I've been getting might be caused by dust, VOCs, or
| pollutants. So will be good to back that with some data.
|
| Robots. Lots and lots of robots. Some roll. Some walk. None
| of them do anything useful. :-)
| stavros wrote:
| Here's my RGB (not WS2812) strip controller, for
| inspiration: https://gitlab.com/stavros/gamelights
| yardie wrote:
| This is awesome and much appreciated. I'm still
| prototyping on a breadboard but now I've got something to
| build off of. Grazie!
| stavros wrote:
| Prego! If your LEDs are WS2812, they're much easier to
| build for, but a high-amperage 5V power supply is harder
| to find.
| seized wrote:
| I wired the normal doorbell button to a Zooz ZEN17 (Zwave smart
| relay with additional inputs). That's paired with ZwaveJS which
| sends out MQTT messages on button pushes. That triggers Node-Red
| which pulls a screenshot off from separate front door security
| camera and sends that to my phone and the wives phone using
| Pushover.
|
| Keep meaning to get around to Frigate for smarter alerts as well,
| for people detection.
| Escapado wrote:
| One of the comments on this site pointed out performance issues
| with the esp32. I never worked with IoT devices or these boards
| but I would like to dabble since they are relatively inexpensive
| but it got me to look up and find out that the esp32 is
| manufactured in a 40nm process node. Are there like newer
| iterations with more performance at similar power budgets
| manufactured at more advanced nodes?
| Max-q wrote:
| 2 cores of 240 MHz RISC is quite powerful. 40nm is not bad for
| microcontrollers. For example, the competing nRF52 series from
| Nordic is made on 55nm process.
| gh02t wrote:
| Not really. There are newer iterations of the chips (including
| RISCV and Zigbee/Thread versions) but you won't see drastic
| performance/power improvements. Performance limitations are par
| for the course for this segment of the market, it's the
| tradeoff you make. There are also better SoC families that can
| get you a better tradeoff, but there aren't many as friendly to
| hobbyists as the ESP32. Maybe Nordic, or going into something
| more like a small SBC like the Pi Zero?
|
| That said the ESP32 is _far_ more powerful than you need for
| the vast majority of home automation type devices, it 's only a
| handful of more intensive tasks like streaming video or ML
| where you start to run into issues. Even then you can often
| still do quite a lot if you're clever.
| codedokode wrote:
| Is ESP32 "privacy friendly"? Is its firmware fully open source
| and contains no backdoors?
| chaxor wrote:
| Block it at the router level to allow only LAN?
| adolph wrote:
| > Is [Espressif] firmware fully open source and contains no
| backdoors?
|
| Their SDK is Apache licensed but does include some compiled
| radio-frequency stuff: https://github.com/espressif/esp32-wifi-
| lib/tree/master/esp3...
| jan_Sate wrote:
| What would be a good alternative that doesn't have binary blob
| tho?
| dewert wrote:
| While I get your point, I think it's a case of the perfect
| being the enemy of the good. This project is miles away from
| being a Ring doorbell.
|
| I guess the author found the ease of use of an ESP32 to be an
| acceptable tradeoff (or didn't consider its firmware to be a
| problem). Others may feel differently, and can modify their
| build accordingly.
| zamadatix wrote:
| The ESP32 can barely do what you want it to, let alone also run
| a yet undetected meaningful backdoor which will impact your
| privacy.
| Mister_Snuggles wrote:
| And even if it did run a backdoor, you've got all of your
| cameras on an isolated VLAN which can't access the internet
| (or anything else), right?
| FloatArtifact wrote:
| What a cool project. ESP 32 cameras can be produce a pretty poor
| quality picture. It would be helpful to have a picture from the
| doorbell at full resolution on the blog
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-08-15 23:00 UTC)