[HN Gopher] PG&E proposes using electric cars to send power back...
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       PG&E proposes using electric cars to send power back to grid to
       prevent blackout
        
       Author : ImJamal
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2023-08-14 19:50 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (abc7news.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (abc7news.com)
        
       | wilg wrote:
       | Why is this reported like PG&E came up with the idea?
       | 
       | > PG&E's CEO Patricia Poppe has come up with an "unconventional"
       | idea, using electric cars to send excess power back to the grid
       | to prevent blackouts.
       | 
       | This is a well understood concept.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | This proposal would work well with solar PV panel-covered parking
       | lots.
        
       | talldatethrow wrote:
       | Californians get annoyed we pay 50% more for gasoline usually.
       | 
       | Most don't know we pay 500% more for electricity than many
       | states.
       | 
       | I have started telling everyone I know this fact. Almost no one
       | knows it. Almost no one has anything to stay other than shake
       | their head in silence.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Maybe they don't have anything to say because they know it's
         | not true and don't want to argue with you?
         | 
         | https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
         | 
         | California's average electricity rate is 2.4x that of the
         | cheapest state. So it is not 500% more than any state, let
         | alone many states.
        
           | ender341341 wrote:
           | I feel like that table is at the wrong scale/isn't super
           | useful (though the GPs scale is the same). For example with
           | WA it lists the price as .0875, but for the majority
           | (population) of the state it's ~.10/.11, and then for the
           | rest (mostly eastern wa) it's like .04.
           | 
           | I'm guessing if the GP did have a source it'd be "this
           | specific county in CA is 5x more than these sets of counties
           | that sell electricity to other counties to subsidize their
           | users"
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | Those numbers seem totally off to me.
           | 
           | I have a municipal utility company, so they don't have to
           | worry about profit or anything like that. The lowest possible
           | residential rate, for people who use a minimal amount of
           | electricity at the cheapest times, is $0.2106/kWh. And that's
           | _before_ amortizing the daily  "power access fee". Most
           | people will be in the middle or top tier, where the marginal
           | price can exceed $0.40/kWh.
           | 
           | For PG&E, it looks like electricity starts at $0.38/kWh after
           | taxes and goes up to $0.48/kWh for heavy users[1]
           | 
           | For SoCal Edison, the cheapest tier is $0.36/kWh and goes up
           | to $0.46/kWh for heavy users.
           | 
           | Unless there's some secret to getting cheap electricity, or
           | the numbers in your link don't include state taxes/fees, it
           | seems impossible to me that the _average_ residential
           | kilowatt-hour of electricity only costs $0.19.
           | 
           | Edit: FWIW, the BLS CPI calculations[3] say that rates in
           | California metros range from $0.274-$0.475. They don't
           | publish a CA average, but the "Pacific" regional average of
           | $0.228/kWh is still above the $0.196/kWh figure, even after
           | being brought down by states like Washington where
           | electricity is ~75% cheaper than places like San Diego
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-
           | plans/how-ra...
           | 
           | [2]: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-
           | Residential-R...
           | 
           | [3]: https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergypr
           | ices...
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | This is an interesting point. The link (nor the GP) doesn't
             | claim it's "residential" though, just "retail". Perhaps
             | commercial rates significantly lower it? If you have better
             | data, I'd love to see if it affects the substance of the
             | GPs post.
        
       | ldbooth wrote:
       | What they should propose is a 10 year fixed rate that PG&E will
       | buy the power back for... to secure investment in the technology.
        
       | throwaway5959 wrote:
       | So not only do they want me to pay more, they want me to use my
       | car to avoid their having to pay for infrastructure. Get bent.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | javagram wrote:
         | The article discusses that they would pay people who integrate
         | with Vehicle2Grid solutions. Sounds like a smart way to avoid
         | duplicating infrastructure.
         | 
         | People who know they don't need their full battery charge
         | except for rare, long trips can sell it back to the grid.
        
           | throwaway5959 wrote:
           | As long as it's optional I'm fine with it. I don't want to
           | add cycles to my battery if I don't have to.
        
             | conjecTech wrote:
             | The last time I looked into this the primary source of
             | capacity degradation in EVs is from aging, not cycling.
             | Most users could probably cycle their battery 50% more for
             | a minuscule loss of overall lifetime/utility.
        
       | BluePen7 wrote:
       | I just hope this furthers V2L adoption, unfortunately due to the
       | wait times for an Ioniq 5, I had to settle for a Tesla.
       | 
       | Frustrates me so much that I drive a massive power bank on
       | wheels, but have no way to get that power back out of the car.
       | 
       | I mainly desire it for home backup, and potentially charging
       | another EV, as far as the grid goes I think this is just another
       | attempt by PG&E to avoid investing in their own infrastructure at
       | the expense of people's car's charge cycles.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | _I just hope this furthers V2L adoption_
         | 
         | I would argue that would furthers more V2L adoption is more
         | blackouts. It's one of the reasons I'm selling our Honda
         | generator: have a Hyundai Ioniq 5, what do I need a 2000W
         | generator for? What did I ever need the Honda for? Blackouts.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-14 23:02 UTC)