[HN Gopher] PG&E proposes using electric cars to send power back...
___________________________________________________________________
PG&E proposes using electric cars to send power back to grid to
prevent blackout
Author : ImJamal
Score : 14 points
Date : 2023-08-14 19:50 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (abc7news.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (abc7news.com)
| wilg wrote:
| Why is this reported like PG&E came up with the idea?
|
| > PG&E's CEO Patricia Poppe has come up with an "unconventional"
| idea, using electric cars to send excess power back to the grid
| to prevent blackouts.
|
| This is a well understood concept.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
| photochemsyn wrote:
| This proposal would work well with solar PV panel-covered parking
| lots.
| talldatethrow wrote:
| Californians get annoyed we pay 50% more for gasoline usually.
|
| Most don't know we pay 500% more for electricity than many
| states.
|
| I have started telling everyone I know this fact. Almost no one
| knows it. Almost no one has anything to stay other than shake
| their head in silence.
| wilg wrote:
| Maybe they don't have anything to say because they know it's
| not true and don't want to argue with you?
|
| https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
|
| California's average electricity rate is 2.4x that of the
| cheapest state. So it is not 500% more than any state, let
| alone many states.
| ender341341 wrote:
| I feel like that table is at the wrong scale/isn't super
| useful (though the GPs scale is the same). For example with
| WA it lists the price as .0875, but for the majority
| (population) of the state it's ~.10/.11, and then for the
| rest (mostly eastern wa) it's like .04.
|
| I'm guessing if the GP did have a source it'd be "this
| specific county in CA is 5x more than these sets of counties
| that sell electricity to other counties to subsidize their
| users"
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Those numbers seem totally off to me.
|
| I have a municipal utility company, so they don't have to
| worry about profit or anything like that. The lowest possible
| residential rate, for people who use a minimal amount of
| electricity at the cheapest times, is $0.2106/kWh. And that's
| _before_ amortizing the daily "power access fee". Most
| people will be in the middle or top tier, where the marginal
| price can exceed $0.40/kWh.
|
| For PG&E, it looks like electricity starts at $0.38/kWh after
| taxes and goes up to $0.48/kWh for heavy users[1]
|
| For SoCal Edison, the cheapest tier is $0.36/kWh and goes up
| to $0.46/kWh for heavy users.
|
| Unless there's some secret to getting cheap electricity, or
| the numbers in your link don't include state taxes/fees, it
| seems impossible to me that the _average_ residential
| kilowatt-hour of electricity only costs $0.19.
|
| Edit: FWIW, the BLS CPI calculations[3] say that rates in
| California metros range from $0.274-$0.475. They don't
| publish a CA average, but the "Pacific" regional average of
| $0.228/kWh is still above the $0.196/kWh figure, even after
| being brought down by states like Washington where
| electricity is ~75% cheaper than places like San Diego
|
| [1]: https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-
| plans/how-ra...
|
| [2]: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-
| Residential-R...
|
| [3]: https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergypr
| ices...
| wilg wrote:
| This is an interesting point. The link (nor the GP) doesn't
| claim it's "residential" though, just "retail". Perhaps
| commercial rates significantly lower it? If you have better
| data, I'd love to see if it affects the substance of the
| GPs post.
| ldbooth wrote:
| What they should propose is a 10 year fixed rate that PG&E will
| buy the power back for... to secure investment in the technology.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| So not only do they want me to pay more, they want me to use my
| car to avoid their having to pay for infrastructure. Get bent.
| [deleted]
| javagram wrote:
| The article discusses that they would pay people who integrate
| with Vehicle2Grid solutions. Sounds like a smart way to avoid
| duplicating infrastructure.
|
| People who know they don't need their full battery charge
| except for rare, long trips can sell it back to the grid.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| As long as it's optional I'm fine with it. I don't want to
| add cycles to my battery if I don't have to.
| conjecTech wrote:
| The last time I looked into this the primary source of
| capacity degradation in EVs is from aging, not cycling.
| Most users could probably cycle their battery 50% more for
| a minuscule loss of overall lifetime/utility.
| BluePen7 wrote:
| I just hope this furthers V2L adoption, unfortunately due to the
| wait times for an Ioniq 5, I had to settle for a Tesla.
|
| Frustrates me so much that I drive a massive power bank on
| wheels, but have no way to get that power back out of the car.
|
| I mainly desire it for home backup, and potentially charging
| another EV, as far as the grid goes I think this is just another
| attempt by PG&E to avoid investing in their own infrastructure at
| the expense of people's car's charge cycles.
| mikestew wrote:
| _I just hope this furthers V2L adoption_
|
| I would argue that would furthers more V2L adoption is more
| blackouts. It's one of the reasons I'm selling our Honda
| generator: have a Hyundai Ioniq 5, what do I need a 2000W
| generator for? What did I ever need the Honda for? Blackouts.
| [deleted]
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-08-14 23:02 UTC)