[HN Gopher] What happened to the microfinance company Kiva?
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       What happened to the microfinance company Kiva?
        
       Author : impish9208
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2023-08-14 10:01 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.technologyreview.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.technologyreview.com)
        
       | bwb wrote:
       | Holy crap that is a huge CEO salary for a non profit
        
         | krsrhe wrote:
         | Nonprofit just means no shareholders. Direct employees and
         | vendors can still get rich. In Kiva's case, the local partner
         | banks do really well.
        
           | satvikpendem wrote:
           | FYI you are shadowbanned and have been for quite some time,
           | it seems. All of your comments show up "dead."
           | 
           | Edit: why the downvotes? Are we not supposed to tell an
           | account it's been shadowbanned?
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | They may not be shadowbanned. Many of those comments are
             | just low quality and likely downvoted.
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | Every single one seems to be dead:
               | https://i.imgur.com/ev5jvEt.png
               | 
               | I'm not sure why some of those comments would have been
               | flagged normally, they don't seem to break any HN rules
               | at all. Given the fact that they're all dead, I was
               | leaning towards being shadowbanned.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Check further pages - some are up. They're not flagged -
               | that would show up differently then just dead. They're
               | just likely to be downvoted, because they're mostly low
               | quality.
        
             | j_crick wrote:
             | Campaigning is real vOv
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > All of your comments show up "dead."
             | 
             | Not for me, they don't.
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | Do you have showdead on in your HN profile settings? This
               | is what it looks like for me:
               | https://i.imgur.com/ev5jvEt.png
        
         | boeingUH60 wrote:
         | That doesn't even register on the grand scheme;
         | https://nonprofitlight.com/
         | 
         | Example; Roger Goodell - National Football League - $30.3
         | million.
        
           | cameldrv wrote:
           | Gotta hand it to the #2, Holly Lang, adoption director of the
           | Minnesota Companion Rabbit society for her $24 million salary
           | though.
        
             | boeingUH60 wrote:
             | That's actually a glitch...her salary was $24,694, and
             | ProPublica 's website somehow picked that up as
             | $24,694,000, which that website cited.
             | 
             | https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/20
             | 1...
        
               | tonymillion wrote:
               | Thanks for clarifying, I looked at the site from GP and I
               | WTF'ed loud enough to wake my dog.
        
           | bhouston wrote:
           | NFL is not the same type of charity though as Kiva. The NFL
           | doesn't actually aim to help people.
        
             | boeingUH60 wrote:
             | Many hospitals and public/private colleges on that list
             | though.
        
       | ROTMetro wrote:
       | Why does the current incarnation of Silicon Valley have to always
       | be shady? Why can't it say 'our service is X' and then deliver
       | service X, not some who knows what other agenda? A car parts
       | store just sells car parts, they don't change and offer
       | refrigerator parts since they already have a distribution system
       | for parts and then tell their customers 'we have to do this in
       | order to keep selling car parts'. Also, 'we are shifting our
       | required by law in store oil recycling to 'contractors' and if
       | they happen to just be dumping it into the river not our problem,
       | wasn't us, we tried' (narrator: they didn't try).
       | 
       | Silicon Valley deserves the hate and bad reputation they now
       | have. They've acted in bad faith for too long while fostering an
       | air of 'trying to make the world better'. I'm so glad they've
       | lost their sales tax exemption and I hope they get kneecapped on
       | every other 'advantage' they have (i.e. 'we don't have employees,
       | we are empowering independent contractors who happen to look just
       | like employees').
       | 
       | America had so much optimism for tech and now they hate it, maybe
       | reflect for a bit on why.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | Information asymmetry is how capital extracts maximum possible
         | value from the consumer in whatever fields they can get their
         | grubby hands on.
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | Guess Cory Doctorow's thesis continues to apply for all sorts of
       | websites.
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | Well, it looks like Kiva got taken over by leadership who are
       | aiming to maximize the return to themselves rather than driving
       | the original vision. As a Kiva donor for about a decade, it is
       | probably time to move on. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | wwtdtgotiatl wrote:
       | Utterly bewildering statement by the VP Guis in here:
       | 
       | > she found it odd that an American would be offered 0% interest
       | while borrowers in poorer parts of the world were being charged
       | up to 70%, according to the estimates posted on Kiva's website.
       | "I don't see why poor people in Guatemala should basically be
       | subsidizing relatively rich people here in Minnesota," she told
       | me. Guis disagreed, telling me, "I take issue with the idea that
       | systematically marginalized communities in the US are less
       | deserving." She said that in 2022, nearly 80% of the businesses
       | that received US loans were "owned by Black, Indigenous, and
       | people of color."
       | 
       | Do Black Americans really put themselves on par with Guatemalan
       | subsistence farmers?
       | 
       | Seems like such an egregious thing to say. Not trying to handwave
       | away real issues but these two groups couldn't be further apart.
        
         | krsrhe wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
         | Is it the case that black Americans are putting themselves on
         | par with Guatemalan subsistence farmers, or that the VP is
         | doing so?
        
         | scarmig wrote:
         | It's just corporate wokewashing. Make a profit-oriented
         | decision, then offer a post-hoc rationalization of why it's
         | good for racial minorities and hope to get some good press out
         | of it. Nothing new or surprising here. Guis, it bears pointing
         | out, is a white woman, not Black, and it's silly to attribute
         | her shoddy ideas to Black people en masse.
        
       | push-to-prod wrote:
       | Greed happened, by the sound of it.
        
       | xunil2ycom wrote:
       | "he individual Kiva lenders earn no interest;" That's why I never
       | bothered with Kiva. You want my money but you're not going to
       | give me even a small cut? No thank you.
        
         | akudha wrote:
         | Not everything in life needs to make a profit. Kiva is not an
         | investment instrument for making profits, it is to help people
         | who are less fortunate than us.
         | 
         | I am now out of touch with Kiva (though I still make loans) but
         | I have been to many of their events, met some of the employees,
         | met some terrific lenders who are genuinely passionate about
         | helping people. I am disappointed how Kiva has turned out these
         | days, but they were doing good work. Their lender community is
         | insanely passionate. There are lenders who are worth 8/9
         | figures and then there are people who can only spare 50$ a
         | month and everyone in between. If you don't trust me, just go
         | read their teams messages.
         | 
         | So yeah, if you are looking to make a quick profit, Kiva (and
         | Kiva like orgs) is not for you
        
           | nocoiner wrote:
           | I agree that many things should not be subject to the profit
           | motive. But I'm going to put my capital at risk for no return
           | - in the best case scenario - while the CEO of a middleman
           | takes home $850k? No thanks.
        
         | mytydev wrote:
         | I was ok with this aspect of lending via Kiva. Finding out
         | someone else was making a profit off the interest of a loan
         | that I funded is the hard pill to swallow.
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | I think of it as a less expensive gofundme. It's not really
         | about (or at least shouldn't be about) getting rich but giving
         | others am opportunity they might never had had otherwise
         | because of the circumstances of their birth.
        
       | fred_is_fred wrote:
       | Some interesting dark patterns here when I tried to pull my money
       | after reading this. I had $30 or so.
       | 
       | 1. Login, start withdrawal process. Get sent email verification
       | link.
       | 
       | 2. Click link, continue. Select which PayPal account to send to.
       | 
       | 3. Site logs me out.
       | 
       | 4. Log in again. Continue process. Get a 2nd verification email.
       | It notes that Withdrawals are manual from the accounting team and
       | take 1-2 weeks.
       | 
       | 5. Click 2nd verification email. Dropped back into account with
       | no confirmation.
       | 
       | 6. Withdrawal information arrives.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-14 23:02 UTC)