[HN Gopher] Tijuana's illegal sewer hookups linked to cross-bord...
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       Tijuana's illegal sewer hookups linked to cross-border pollution
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2023-08-12 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kpbs.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kpbs.org)
        
       | onetimeusename wrote:
       | _the federal appropriations bill signed last December cleared the
       | way for the EPA to transfer $300 million to the International
       | Boundary and Water Commission for infrastructure projects._
       | 
       | So is the US paying for sewer works in Mexico? This doesn't feel
       | right to me when the article points out the problem is a failure
       | of Mexican government and citizens to properly address the
       | problem. How do we even know the money will be put to good use?
        
         | OfSanguineFire wrote:
         | US (and EU, and Japanese...) aid to much of the developing
         | world goes to building sewage, it is one of the key steps to
         | improving community health.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | Funny, last time I was there (nearly two decades ago), the sewers
       | were overflowing heaps of shit into the street gutters...
       | Memorable. Crazy city, even for Mexico.
        
         | OfSanguineFire wrote:
         | You might want to go back and see if that "crazy city"
         | conclusion merits revision. I visited Tijuana last winter and
         | was amazed how little it resembled stereotypes from two decades
         | ago. No longer are there any safety concerns about walking or
         | cycling across the city during the day, and I discovered that
         | thousands of Southern Californians are now living across the
         | border and commuting to work everyday, because cost of living
         | is much cheaper in Mexico and crossing is fast with Global
         | Entry.
        
       | avar wrote:
       | The article concludes:
       | 
       | > A long-term solution requires sustained investment of millions
       | of dollars into identifying every illegal connection and
       | correcting it.
       | 
       | Couldn't they just restrict flow through the system when it's not
       | raining?
       | 
       | Then illegal connections would identify themselves in the form of
       | overflowing toilets.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | I don't understand how this would work... is there some
         | surefire way of knowing it is raining, and then somehow opening
         | up the storm drains in time for the runoff?
         | 
         | Remember that if this automatic opening-closing mechanism
         | fails, you get widespread flooding, likely leading to a lot of
         | property damage and maybe even some lives lost depending on the
         | severity of the storm.
        
       | rejectfinite wrote:
       | Sewage and tap water situation is a metric I use to judge
       | countries if they care about their citizens! :)
       | 
       | https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Water-Quali...
        
       | zapdrive wrote:
       | Meanwhile enjoy your 20$ drinks with a paper straw across the
       | border here in San Diego! Or pay $1 for a bag at the grocery
       | store. We are saving the environment, yay!
        
       | Reptur wrote:
       | Yeah, this is one of those problems that leadership just ignores
       | and passes to the next person.
       | 
       | "Reports of sewage leaking over the border into the San Diego
       | region stretch back at least to the 1930s. Significant
       | improvements were made in the 1990s, but Tijuana's wastewater
       | facilities haven't kept pace with growth while many poorer
       | communities remain unconnected to the city's sewer system."
       | https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-25/tijuana-...
        
         | Solvency wrote:
         | But why? Surely this is perfect Republican fuel? They're
         | constantly obsessing over walls... why not raise a stink over
         | invasive sewage?
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | Do they not raise a stink? They certainly don't care about
           | handing money to San Diego, which is mostly Democrat-voting
           | and an insanely expensive place to live. They probably want
           | the sewage spills to continue so they can point to the SD-
           | Tijuana metro as liberal-immigrant failure.
           | 
           | Remember Tucker Carlson is originally from La Jolla, one of
           | the wealthiest parts of the city of San Diego.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | melling wrote:
           | Yep, illegal/legal immigration can cost elections. It's also
           | a very tiring topic.
           | 
           | Perhaps we should address the problem rather than leave the
           | current mess in place thus removing it from politics?
           | 
           | Kind of strange that people bought into the idea of a big
           | wall but politicians will run on whatever gets them votes.
           | 
           | Democrats say immigration is no big deal but complain they
           | need funding.
           | 
           | https://abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-migrant-shelters-port-
           | authority-m...
           | 
           | In the meantime, we have labor shortages that could certainly
           | be addressed by more legal immigration
        
             | goodbyesf wrote:
             | > In the meantime, we have labor shortages that could
             | certainly be addressed by more legal immigration
             | 
             | In a country of 330 million people, it's hard to envision
             | us having labor shortages. Do we really have labor
             | shortages or a low wage problem? Also, both legal and
             | illegal immigration addresses labor shortages, if indeed
             | such a thing exists.
        
               | EA-3167 wrote:
               | We have a shortage of people willing to work for terrible
               | wages and no benefits.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Depends on the job.
               | 
               | There are physically demanding low paying work in
               | agriculture for instance that would be challenging to
               | fill at any wage that wouldn't result in sticker shock
               | down the line.
               | 
               | Americans don't want to destroy their back 12 hours a day
               | for a short term job that will need a only a fraction of
               | the labor after harvest is done.
               | 
               | Many other jobs could profitably be automated away or
               | filled by Americans.
               | 
               | I would prefer we accept immigrants because it's the
               | right thing to do and because long term those people and
               | their children will enrich and add value to our society
               | rather than hoping it will do something about the help
               | wanted signs in the service industry.
        
           | martin1975 wrote:
           | Democrats don't mind sewage spilling into the USA? Which do
           | you think is easier to clean up, 50M illegals or border
           | sewage leaks?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | asu_thomas wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | zdw wrote:
       | This also spills over (literally) into California - many of the
       | beaches in San Diego are unswimmable due to contamination.
       | 
       | (ref: Went to Coronado Island beach. Went in Water. Lifeguards
       | chased me down and told me to wash off really well...)
        
         | kadoban wrote:
         | Isn't this endemic in beaches throught the country? I grew up
         | in NY and one summer job I had was testing beaches for bacteria
         | levels. Most beaches were one rainy day away from being closed
         | down, and they were certainly nowhere near Mexico.
        
           | gedy wrote:
           | TJ runoff is at much worse levels, don't have link handy
           | though
        
           | genocidicbunny wrote:
           | > Most beaches were one rainy day away from being closed
           | down, and they were certainly nowhere near Mexico.
           | 
           | I think this is the most salient point -- most beaches are
           | probably fine most of the time, but when you get a big storm
           | or some other event that causes a lot of runoff, the beaches
           | quickly become health hazards. And it doesn't even need to be
           | anything particularly nefarious, even just dumping a bunch of
           | nutrients into the water will cause more things to grow,
           | nasty things included.
           | 
           | I've been to plenty of beaches where after a strong rain,
           | they had signs out on the beach warning about potential
           | sewage runoff, and to avoid swimming in the water.
        
             | quickthrower2 wrote:
             | I never knew this until I Googled 'is it OK to surf in the
             | rain?'. In the context of urban beaches. I think the answer
             | was yes, as long as it wasn't the first rain after a dry
             | period, because of runoff from streets etc.
        
             | gunapologist99 wrote:
             | That's in tfa. The drainage pipes are discharging when
             | there's been no rain at all (and there's not much rain in
             | baja california)
        
           | micromacrofoot wrote:
           | correct, many beaches in new england have been closed this
           | year off and on due to heavy rainfall bringing bacteria from
           | human waste
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | Yeah you have to go up to Pacific Beach / La Jolla and farther
         | north to avoid the runoff from the Tijuana river. Of course
         | during long dry spells it is not so bad, because there is
         | basically no runoff. Imperial Beach is almost always dirty,
         | though.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | You would love Acapulco, where _everything_ drains into ocean
        
       | srvmshr wrote:
       | > _Bautista Corona said city workers have collected 6,000 tons of
       | trash from storm drains over the last three years through a
       | program that specifically targets big items like couches and
       | refrigerators._
       | 
       | Good griefs. That is a new one for me. I would not expect to see
       | couches & refrigerators dumped into manholes anywhere.
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | They're not being dumped down a manhole. More than likely,
         | things like that are being dumped into the larger open storm
         | drain canals. And often storm drains run along the courses of
         | creeks or rivers that have been covered up/paved over, so it's
         | more like throwing your garbage into the nearby river.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | Probably not so much forcing couches and refrigerators through
         | the drains on streets, but tossing them into the typically open
         | air channels where storm water flows on its way from street
         | drains to rivers or the shore.
         | 
         | Some places have combined sewers where storm water drains into
         | the same underground channes and pipes as sanitary sewage; it
         | would be hard to dump couches and refrigerators there. But
         | that's usually seen in cities with very old infrastructure:
         | combined sewers don't make sense when you have sewage treatment
         | plants. During a storm you have a lot more flow, and you'll
         | exceed the capacity of your treatment plant and have to let
         | untreated water through. Even in separate sewers, you have
         | higher flow in the rainy season; utility sewer pipes aren't
         | usually sealed at connections, so if there's a lot of ground
         | water, it leaks into the pipes and flows through; the change in
         | volume during a storm is usually not that fast, but flow rates
         | during the rainy season will be significantly higher than the
         | dry season.
         | 
         | Sounds like Tijuana has separate sewers, but lots of
         | unauthorized connections from indoor plumbing to the storm
         | sewers.
        
       | esaym wrote:
       | Is this news? I went to Big Bend park in like 1995 and was told
       | to stay out of the Rio Grande unless I wanted disease.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-12 23:00 UTC)