[HN Gopher] My Overkill Home Network
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My Overkill Home Network
        
       Author : monstermunch
       Score  : 531 points
       Date   : 2023-08-10 21:05 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.networkprofile.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.networkprofile.org)
        
       | femto wrote:
       | I used to have a home network, until lightning hit nearby.
       | 
       | It came up the power connection and the copper phone connection.
       | The modem/router/switch fried, then it spread out though the
       | twisted pair Ethernet and fried every interface connected to the
       | network.
       | 
       | These days I use WiFi unless I really need low latency / high
       | reliability in a particular location. Optical would be nice, but
       | WiFi is the poor man's lightning safe network.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Yep, first thing I did was cut the phone line and Coax off the
         | house!
        
         | jamespo wrote:
         | The APC 850 UPS has ports to surge protect the data
         | connectivity.
        
         | jacoblambda wrote:
         | Yeah this is why I like fiber optic cables. Lightning can't
         | surge the modem if there's no electrical connection.
         | 
         | And then standard power isolation and surge protection will
         | handle all the power connections.
         | 
         | I've yet to loose equipment to lightning from the power cables
         | but I literally can't count the amount of equipment that has
         | been killed by lightning striking a copper data line and then
         | surging through my network.
        
           | pottertheotter wrote:
           | All I can get is cable internet so this worries me.
           | 
           | What's the best way to implement power isolation and surge
           | protection?
        
             | Dah00n wrote:
             | If you want to isolate the internet connection with fiber
             | you can use an ethernet to fiber box.
             | 
             | Something as simple and cheap as this would do:
             | 
             | https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-
             | networking/accessory/mc2...
        
               | theshrike79 wrote:
               | +1 for the TP-link, I've got one running fiber to my AV
               | equipment :)
               | 
               | It was a lot easier to run a pair of fiber-optic cables
               | there than it would've been to do the same with cat6.
               | Also I got to play around with fiber for the first time.
               | 
               | Never thought of isolating my modem from the rest of my
               | gear though, I need to look into that.
        
               | Dah00n wrote:
               | Side effect of introducing less noise into AV equipment
               | is a nice bonus!
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | You can never get perfect isolation from lightning (a
             | direct hit will almost certainly take _something_ out) but
             | you can do worse than making sure you have an excellent
             | grounding rod setup and a whole-home surge protector, which
             | you monitor.
             | 
             | And then you can put surge equipment on any other incoming
             | wires.
        
             | kibibyte wrote:
             | There are surge protectors that can protect the coax cables
             | used for cable internet. Here's one that I use:
             | https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Right-Angle-Protection-
             | TLP....
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | Couldn't lightning just as well fry everything connected to
         | power? In that case, WiFi will not save you.
        
           | femto wrote:
           | When lightning strikes, the phone network and power network
           | are often driven to different electric potentials, meaning a
           | current will flow between them. When that happens equipment
           | that is connected to both the phone line and the power will
           | act as an (expensive) fuse.
           | 
           | With only one connection (power or phone) the whole device
           | tends swing at the same potential. Damage can occur if it
           | arcs to ground, but that's less likely as in a device the
           | isolation to ground is typically higher than between the
           | power and data parts of a circuit. (Extra bad news if the arc
           | to ground happens via a person.)
           | 
           | Incidentally, if a lightning strike is nearby a typical
           | consumer surge protector will improve the odds but probably
           | won't prevent damage.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | RulerOf wrote:
         | I had an ISA dialup modem that got hit by lightning. Loud boom
         | then my DUN connection hung up.
         | 
         | When it came back, that modem still worked, but it was stuff
         | "off the hook" forever. I had to unplug/replug it every time I
         | wanted to dial out, and the phone line was permanently busy.
        
         | fastball wrote:
         | Is it not possible to surge protect the copper phone line?
        
           | NavinF wrote:
           | It's pretty easy, but also unnecessary when everyone uses
           | VoIP and fiber is cheaper per ft than copper
        
       | harry8 wrote:
       | I couldn't find it, so many details. What's the power draw on all
       | that?
       | 
       | A kilowatt?
        
         | asynchronous wrote:
         | Way, way too much is the answer. That amount of storage alone
         | has got to kill his electricity bill.
        
           | princeb wrote:
           | he said solar, which is pretty nice if (1) he is generating
           | excess solar in the day (2) he cannot sell it back to the
           | grid (3) it's not cost effective to store in batteries for
           | night use (4) there's nothing else to spend the energy on.
           | 
           | otherwise, i can imagine it'll still be cheaper to not run
           | things than to run things. but it's a hobby, people spend
           | energy and resources on more frivolous things, and those
           | frivolous things make us human.
        
       | ivolimmen wrote:
       | I find this really disturbing. On the one hand this looks really
       | nerdy and cool but then I see the immense amount of hardware that
       | also relies on power... so much power. This is completely
       | unnecessary but then I also see the pictures of an F150.. so yeah
       | it makes sense. I have to categorize this as a (un)typical
       | American person that does not care about the environment.
       | 
       | Do like the fact that he runs a RIPE probe though.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | You do realize you're posting this self-righteous comment from
         | a computer that was in all likelihood manufactured in China,
         | right? I wonder how many tons of coal were burned to
         | manufacture it. I wonder how many western developed nation
         | comforts you're unwilling to give up while you "categorize"
         | people on the internet based on the constructive activities
         | they choose to engage in with their own time and money.
        
         | amadsen wrote:
         | Sigh. This is a guy who is clearly passionate about his hobby
         | and was excited to share it with us. Leave it to hn to shit all
         | over it.
         | 
         | Some people fly to Africa and shoot elephants for fun - as far
         | as hobbies go, this is fairly benign. If you care about the
         | environment, I mean actually care, then you should recognize
         | that policing how many computers someone have in their closet
         | is counterproductive. I don't buy the "every little bit helps"
         | argument because there is always an opportunity cost. Attention
         | spans are limited and focusing on this non-issue does nothing
         | but draw attention away from things that actually matter like
         | meat consumption and fossil fuels.
        
         | true_religion wrote:
         | My entire region runs on hydro, so even if I had a home lab x10
         | the size of this it wouldn't have the same environmental impact
         | as someone who ran a laptop with power from a coal plant.
         | 
         | You can't tell from a blog post if what he's doing is good or
         | bad for the environment. And further more, its unfair to tell
         | people that they shouldn't improve their niche skills when
         | those same skills are what they use for employment.
        
         | bliteben wrote:
         | Yeah pics did make it look like he could use a smaller truck
        
         | kriops wrote:
         | I find your comment to be at the absolute peak of sanctimony.
         | Who are you to decide if it is necessary or not? Furthermore,
         | why are you justified in negatively stereotyping Americans - a
         | diverse group of individuals?
        
           | rb666 wrote:
           | How is it an act? Caring about the climate is clearly morally
           | superior than not doing so.
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | How do you know OP cares about the environment? Because
             | they criticize others?
             | 
             | I have no doubt we could examine OP's life and find plenty
             | of "wasteful" use of energy but no doubt OP would say
             | "that's different". It's always "the other guy" in these
             | cases.
             | 
             | Add on top it's a lazy comment that adds nothing to the
             | conversation.
        
             | drexlspivey wrote:
             | The "using electricity is bad" meme must be one of the
             | stupidest ones in the last few years
        
               | maleldil wrote:
               | Why? IMO we should all avoid waste, whether that's
               | plastic or energy.
        
               | Qwertious wrote:
               | >Why? IMO we should all avoid waste, whether that's
               | plastic or energy.
               | 
               | Allow me to respond with a slight tangent:
               | 
               | Suppose you care about reducing plastic in the ocean. So
               | you try to reduce your usage of plastic straws. You spend
               | a whole lot of time convincing everyone you know to buy
               | bamboo straws or such.
               | 
               | Plastic straws make up less than 0.1% of the plastic in
               | the ocean. Meanwhile, fishing nets make up ~40%. Plastic
               | straws are a _hard_ problem to solve, and solving them
               | accomplishes less than 1 /400th of the fishing net
               | problem.
               | 
               | And yet, we hear a lot about plastic straws but nothing
               | about fishing nets. Why?
               | 
               | Because it's the more consumer-facing solution. It's
               | vital that people focus on the solution that _solves the
               | problem_ , rather than wthe one that is most easily
               | pointed to.
               | 
               | Should we do both? In theory, sure. But in practice
               | people have finite time, and you have 30 seconds max
               | before they start tuning you out, so you're better off
               | giving your elevator pitch on fishing nets.
        
               | drexlspivey wrote:
               | Then you must hate that almost all of sun's energy
               | hitting earth is wasted
        
               | maleldil wrote:
               | This is such a bad faith comment. The sun isn't causing
               | climate change; we are.
               | 
               | Do you disagree that humans need to minimise waste in
               | order to fight climate change?
        
               | drexlspivey wrote:
               | Using energy doesn't cause climate change. Producing
               | energy from fossil fuels causes climate change. Humans
               | don't need to minimise energy usage to fight climate
               | change, instead they need to produce energy from non
               | fossil sources. I wish we produced 10x energy that we do
               | now but from renewable sources.
        
               | globular-toast wrote:
               | You're right, in the most meaningless sense of the word.
               | I too wish we had 10x the energy from renewable sources,
               | but we don't and won't for the foreseeable future. What
               | we actually can do is get maybe 1/10 of our energy from
               | renewable sources and then, to be sustainable, we need to
               | use 1/10 of the energy we currently use.
        
             | a-user-you-like wrote:
             | How do you know the man's power is not cleanly generated?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | antoinec wrote:
               | Looks like he is powering at least part of his
               | installation through solar:
               | https://blog.networkprofile.org/17kw-enphase-solar-
               | install/
        
               | uoaei wrote:
               | What is the CO2e ROI on producing and installing solar,
               | including all the transportation and installation
               | equipment being used?
               | 
               | When is it net-negative compared to pulling energy from
               | the grid?
        
               | snoman wrote:
               | Can you honestly answer that question for literally
               | anything you've ever bought, in your life?
        
               | uoaei wrote:
               | Would any answer to your question mean mine is not one
               | worth asking, or that it's not worth estimating those
               | quantities to include in calculations of CO2e-opportunity
               | cost?
        
               | antoinec wrote:
               | Good question, not sure how I would know the answer
               | though. You probably should ask the guy. Given how he
               | seems to track everything, I wouldn't be surprised if he
               | came up with a way of measuring that as well.
        
           | rimliu wrote:
           | The question was not addressed to me, but I have some tongue-
           | in-cheek answers:                   > Who are you to decide
           | if it is necessary or not?
           | 
           | Inhabitant of the Earth. The one affected by climate change.
           | > Why are you justified in negatively stereotyping Americans
           | 
           | Tell me, what is the best-selling truck in US for 46 years in
           | a row?
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | It's hilarious how sanctimonious moralizing has gone from
             | things like pornography, premarital sex and smoking
             | marijuana to now using too much energy.
             | 
             | The people who complained about those issues thought they
             | were "on the right side" as well.
             | 
             | But in the end it's all just busybodies trying to force
             | other to live their life the way they think it should be
             | lived.
        
           | checkyoursudo wrote:
           | That particular comment was "the absolute peak of
           | sanctimony"? Like, the most sanctimonious comment you have
           | _ever_ read on the internet?
        
             | snoman wrote:
             | Probably more like a local maxima.
        
             | kriops wrote:
             | Yes. This is a prime example of what people refer to when
             | they say that someone is being an "asshole". The reason
             | being that the OP is being incredibly condescending while
             | simultaneously lacking any trace of empathy and knowledge.
             | 
             | I've seen stuff that or more vile etc. of course, but as
             | far as sanctimoniousness goes, this is the worst I've seen
             | in my several decades on the internet.
        
           | snerbles wrote:
           | The satisfaction from serving up self-righteous condemnation
           | is one hell of a drug.
        
             | Gibbon1 wrote:
             | Giving attitude from 50 degrees north latitude.
        
           | Toutouxc wrote:
           | A diverse group of individuals who consume 12 MWh of power
           | per capita, while it's around 6 or 7 MWh for modern European
           | countries. It's not even a stereotype, just statistics. (got
           | my data in two minutes from Wikipedia, so maybe not up-to-
           | date)
        
             | thsksbd wrote:
             | "who consume 12 MWh of power per capita, while it's around
             | 6 or 7 MWh for modern European countries."
             | 
             | Lol, you write that as if the Europeans were consuming half
             | as much because they are morally enlightened.
             | 
             | Europeans use 6Mwh/person because thats as much as their
             | emasculated societies can steal from Africa. May I remind
             | you they didn't leave Africa very willingly in the 50s-70s.
             | But they kept on stealing anyway!
             | 
             | Thats right. Steal. Libya, Algeria, Niger. The French
             | convertible Franc. The French senate bemoaning _just this
             | week_ that Macron  "lost" Africa. Lost Africa? Africa is
             | not France's to lose!
             | 
             | Unlike, say, Japan or Korea that have more than just a
             | token few LNG terminals and pay for their gas with monitors
             | and great cars.
        
             | ryan-c wrote:
             | I wonder how much of the difference is air conditioning?
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | I don't really think 2x the power usage comes from AC.
               | The US has plenty of areas that only need a bit of AC for
               | only part of the year.
        
               | ryan-c wrote:
               | It's definitely not all of the difference, but it's gotta
               | be some.
        
               | midasuni wrote:
               | Presumably those areas don't need heating
        
               | quantumfissure wrote:
               | Please don't make assumptions on something you don't know
               | anything about.
               | 
               | Even many northern US states (around the same Latitude as
               | Madrid, north), on average, are 30-35+ every day during
               | the summer and 0C to -10C in the winter. Many Canadians
               | have air con.
               | 
               | So yes, heating and air con is a requirement in many
               | areas. I live in a northern state, and we regularly have
               | full weeks that are 38-40C.
        
               | ryan-c wrote:
               | That would be an incorrect assumption.
        
         | Gareth321 wrote:
         | In many U.S. states, their primary energy generation is
         | nuclear. This is extremely environmentally friendly, meaning no
         | issues with OP using a bunch of power.
         | 
         | We really need to stop demonising the use of energy. Energy is
         | _amazing._ It is the reason we have seen to much prosperity in
         | so little time. It 's the backbone of our economies. Of
         | medicine and the internet and EVs and well insulated homes. We
         | should be doing everything we can to make energy cheaper,
         | enabling more people to use more energy. Few things have been
         | as damaging for climate activism than the war on energy. It's
         | unnecessary and misses the point of the entire movement: saving
         | the environment. Focus on cleaner sources of energy rather than
         | demonising people using energy.
        
           | b3orn wrote:
           | I looked it up, 5 US states get the majority of their
           | electricity from nuclear power, 4 from wind, 3 from hydro.
           | The other states use coal, natural gas and petroleum.
           | 
           | Source: https://www.nei.org/resources/statistics/state-
           | electricity-g...
        
             | ourmandave wrote:
             | Post apocalypse, that Biomass & Other column is going to
             | mean something completely different.
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | It's not about the energy for me. A lot of these posts make
           | networking and homelabs seem like a dark art that only folks
           | with tons of space, capital, and time can get into.
           | Networking is anything but, it's about sending a packet of
           | data over a wire! But when we glorify these elaborate,
           | expensive setups, we not only lose focus on what the goal of
           | a network should be (to satisfy needs for its users), we also
           | discourage newcomers from tinkering with networks which to me
           | is the bigger crime.
        
             | gwbrooks wrote:
             | Or -- hear me out -- you entice newcomers who want a big
             | ol' rack of boxes and wires.
             | 
             | Like me.
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | I guess that wouldn't have enticed me at all. The
               | minimalism of networking is what interested me in it in
               | the first place decades ago as a kid.
        
         | pprotas wrote:
         | Snide categorizations aside, there is a point somewhere in your
         | comment. It is a running joke in the /r/homelab community that
         | their servers use an unreasonable amount of power that they
         | have to hide from their wives.
         | 
         | It really IS unnecessary, as you can tell by the author of the
         | article referring to their home network as "overkill".
        
           | fjfuvucucuc wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | cjdell wrote:
         | I also have mixed feelings. I stopped home labing because of
         | the energy costs. I now have everything I need (HomeAssistant /
         | NAS / Router) running on an old Dell Precision laptop. Laptops
         | make great servers because they are optimised for low power
         | consumption + you get a free console and UPS built-in!
         | 
         | I'm tempted by the new Alder Lake N100 mini PCs that are
         | available on Chinese websites. But I need to wait until the
         | laptop dies before I can justify it. It's not just about power
         | consumption but the (hidden) cost of manufacturing. Make use of
         | the stuff you already have before buying new stuff.
         | 
         | At least he had a big solar array...
        
           | maxmalkav wrote:
           | I am a big fan of thin clients as servers. It is true you
           | lose the "built-in console and UPS", but they usually come in
           | very nice and compact form factor, many are fanless and
           | consume 10~15W tops while being acceptably capable (in
           | general much more than a RPi but with much better memory and
           | storage specs)
        
           | abwizz wrote:
           | > Laptops make great servers because they are optimised for
           | low power consumption + you get a free console and UPS built-
           | in
           | 
           | > Make use of the stuff you already have before buying new
           | stuff.
           | 
           | this is the way!
        
             | bliteben wrote:
             | I would have disagreed on heat, but would love to hear what
             | laptops that isn't an issue on.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | What do you mean?
        
               | bliteben wrote:
               | Many laptops have bad thermals in general under load and
               | often even worse with case closed.
        
               | abwizz wrote:
               | true but mostly irrelevant as there rarely is any load to
               | speak of.
               | 
               | if you need a heavy duty machine, use it, but most of the
               | time you don't, that's the point.
               | 
               | (for comparison; skylake laptop uses about 20W under max
               | load, my 12-gen desktop uses 40W while idle)
        
           | norman784 wrote:
           | Maybe you could consider an old framework motherboards? I
           | personally don't own one, but is tempting if you own a
           | framework laptop or are planning on buy one, it seems to be
           | one of the most sustainable options out there.
        
           | Borg3 wrote:
           | Laptops are great servers? Hmm I beg to differ. They are very
           | compressed, so they heat up a lot.
           | 
           | You need low power server? Go for Atom like CPU with good
           | case. My home server running D2550 and 2x 1TB HDD is less
           | than 40W. PSU is cold.
        
             | varjag wrote:
             | Run the same load you do on your Atom on a laptop and it'll
             | be cold as Thatcher gaze.
        
             | abwizz wrote:
             | typical laptop goes below 10W while serving a gbps of samba
        
             | ivolimmen wrote:
             | I run a server at home. It's a PINE64... uses 10w or
             | something. My NAS uses more but I only turn that one when I
             | need to backup stuff.
        
             | cjdell wrote:
             | Well it depends what you're doing with it. In my case my
             | CPU is averaging about 1% with the odd burst here and
             | there. As a precaution I propped it up to allow increased
             | airflow underneath.
             | 
             | You do have a point in that certain devices can suffer from
             | overcharging and bulging batteries. This issue is largely
             | addressed in newer devices. I can see that the BMS in my
             | laptop server is holding at 90% charge. Definitely worth
             | checking if you plan to use an old phone/laptop/tablet as a
             | 24/7 device.
        
           | vladvasiliu wrote:
           | My main problem with labbing is the noise (I live in an
           | apartment). His servers are mostly small PCs, so I think the
           | most power draw is from the disk drives. If you need the
           | storage, say for the cameras and whatnot, I'm not sure that
           | running a laptop instead would save _that_ much power.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I dunno, a lot of people on here use more power without
         | noticing it, because it's on whatever cloud provider they use.
         | Every time I push some commits, an array of servers spins up in
         | an AWS datacenter somewhere to run all of my verifications and
         | do a build.
         | 
         | Second, this person seems to have a very large house anyway. My
         | house manages with a modem, a wifi router and two IP cameras,
         | but that can just scale up linearly.
         | 
         | When I grow up I want a switch rack like this in a basement or
         | closet, wired network everywhere and PoE security cameras.
         | Bigger house also means I can get an array of solar panels and
         | become net positive.
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | > I dunno, a lot of people on here use more power without
           | noticing it, because it's on whatever cloud provider they
           | use. Every time I push some commits, an array of servers
           | spins up in an AWS datacenter somewhere to run all of my
           | verifications and do a build.
           | 
           | Most AWS (and generally cloud) instances are already
           | virtualized from bigger machines. Power, heating, and cooling
           | in these large racks is running much more efficiently than
           | running these things in your home on dedicated compute that
           | is only being used for your purposes. Even more efficient is
           | using something like serverless compute or something like
           | Cloudflare workers. While cloud compute probably is not
           | running at low idle power, it's probably maximizing it's
           | power utilization as much as possible.
           | 
           | > Bigger house also means I can get an array of solar panels
           | and become net positive.
           | 
           | There's a lot of hidden costs associated with becoming "net
           | positive", everything from adding more peak load during
           | inclement events to issues associated with grid fragility.
           | 
           | Look I don't think it's good form to roast OP on what's
           | really standard behavior on the internet: showing off your
           | cool digs. But I also think we should be intentional about
           | what it is: showing off your cool digs.
        
         | SanderNL wrote:
         | I find it very interesting how awareness of climate change (and
         | let's not forget: the price of energy) has had so much impact
         | on my and others' judgement in a relatively short time.
         | 
         | 5-10 years ago I would think this is perfectly fine. I believe
         | I was not alone in this, but maybe I was. The energy would have
         | cost pennies too and why whine about it?
         | 
         | Now I think it's exorbitant as well, for me. The F150 etc, it's
         | telling a different story now.
         | 
         | I do think it's kind of below the belt to snipe any single
         | culture for this. It's too easy to target Americans. I don't
         | know about this guy's life. Maybe he has a ranch with 20 square
         | miles of renewables and I don't care actually. It's just
         | personal reflection.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | alex3305 wrote:
           | > 5-10 years ago I would think this is perfectly fine. I
           | believe I was not alone in this, but maybe I was. The energy
           | would have cost pennies too and why whine about it?
           | 
           | When I moved into my own home (8 years ago) I brought my
           | 'homeserver' with me. Which was just a simple i5-2600 build
           | with some shucked drives in it. I never thought about
           | electricity prices when I lived with my parents. But that
           | changed rather fast. With the server gobbling up a constant
           | 90W, I quickly realized that, even back than, it would cost
           | me 15 euro's a month on electricity alone.
           | 
           | I than proceeded to put a Pi next to it, that would listen to
           | incoming Plex requests and would start up and shut down the
           | server with WoL. That only reduced costs by about a third.
           | The next couple of years I would move on to a NUC with a NAS
           | that would only consume about 29W/h on average. Which was
           | decent, but not great considering the poor performance of
           | both machines (J4105 and J1800).
           | 
           | Last month I have gone back to the DIY route. Now with a
           | i5-13500. I'm still in the process of optimizing it for power
           | efficiency. Although much more stressful than the prebuilts,
           | I love the hunt for the last watt.
           | 
           | Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I notice that family and
           | friends don't really care about saving power in general. They
           | mostly just pay for it and there's that. While my house runs
           | 100% on electricity and I'm really proud if I can get
           | 9kWh/day on average. Even when I see that (for example) the
           | 8-bit guy uses 100kWh/day on average [1]. Which seems out of
           | this world for me.
           | 
           | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXd-aP06lug&t=45s
        
             | bjornasm wrote:
             | >I than proceeded to put a Pi next to it, that would listen
             | to incoming Plex requests and would start up and shut down
             | the server with WoL.
             | 
             | How hard is this to configure? I have a server at home I
             | use to run a database and computational heavy code, however
             | I am the only user so realistically it is only in use 8
             | hours a day and some weekends etc. However in the fear of
             | forgetting to turn it on before I go to work (or if I
             | suddenly find time to work while away) I find that I
             | default to leave it on. Being able to control it would be
             | fantastic.
        
               | MayeulC wrote:
               | If it's just that, you can have a Pi next to it and just
               | ssh in to send a WoL command. Basically nothing to
               | configure.
               | 
               | You can make it simpler to use by making an alias in your
               | shell, or a button on your phone (with one of the
               | countless "ssh button" apps). Or even make a web page for
               | it (some php or python that just calls the WoL function).
               | 
               | OP describes a more transparent (and complex) setup where
               | the Pi presumably acts as a reverse proxy. I'd be curious
               | to know the exact setup too, one of the simplest ways
               | would be to use wake on unicast:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35627107
               | 
               | Other ways include wrapping some scripts around socat,
               | writing your own proxy, systemd socket activation, etc.
        
             | djhn wrote:
             | Hold on a second - how large of a household are we talking?
             | House or apartment? What consumes all that power? Electric
             | vehicle? Work from home?
             | 
             | I'm environmentally conscious (0 cars, 0 pets) but I
             | haven't spent any time measuring and optimising electricity
             | usage.
             | 
             | I've had a look at my own electricity usage every once in a
             | while, now averaging 48 kWh/month (between 38 and 68) for a
             | larger than average apartment for two people.
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | 48 kWh / month is amazing! That's 4 kWh / day. Just
               | cooking on our induction burner and instant pot can use
               | up 1 kWh on a day with lots of meal prep.
        
               | djhn wrote:
               | Interesting. Maybe our brand new kitchen appliances _are_
               | more energy efficient?
        
         | miked85 wrote:
         | Funny, just seems like a hobby to me.
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | I do a lot of similar stuff in my home network with a _lot_
         | less equipment. I have a trunk switch that sits behind my
         | router, Ethernet running into each of my rooms (came with the
         | house), and small point switches that sit in front of each
         | patch. I have 3 APs in my house. I have a UPS which connects to
         | our router, trunk switch, and a single AP that uses PoE which
         | is good enough if we need Wifi when the power goes down. To
         | much shock and horror, I just bought discount Cat6 cabling and
         | didn 't bother buying a roll and crimping and making my cabling
         | look nice (but I did test every point in my network
         | exhaustively to make sure I don't have high amounts of latency
         | or jitter anywhere.)
         | 
         | The rest of the services that OP runs I run on a combination of
         | a 12 year old SBC and a Raspberry Pi. Modern computers (read <
         | 15 years old) when used as server appliances are very capable
         | and can packet switch very quickly, even while running a kernel
         | and a usermode. Doubt me? Run your own iperf tests and check
         | where things are bottlenecking.
         | 
         | My IP cameras are all Raspberry Pis that use the camera module
         | and stream using RTSP back to the SBC. Instead of managing
         | VLANs (I do offer a guest VLAN but my partner and friends found
         | it a pain so it doesn't get much use _shrug_ ), I run Zerotier
         | through the house. My IP cameras sit on a single Zerotier
         | network. All other services I run internally use Zerotier and
         | if I do accept external traffic, I expose a port on a VPS (like
         | OP) and have some nftables rules which NAT the traffic through
         | Zerotier. I've thought about getting a failover ISP (our area
         | has 2), but our primary ISP offers us fantastic peering (I've
         | exhaustively tested the bandwidth and jitter to the VPS I proxy
         | traffic through) and good enough uptime for me to not bother.
         | 
         | Like a lot of other hobbies, people can get very consumeristic.
         | This is what a consumeristic version of homelabbing looks like.
         | This shouldn't stop you or anyone else from building a humble
         | homelab that can do almost all of what OPs home network does.
         | The key is to test where your network has bottlenecks. I've
         | iperf tested my network exhaustively and frequently look at
         | kernel counters and other things to make sure that my network
         | is performing up to spec, but that's a lot less fun than buying
         | lots of cool networking gear. Much like you don't need an F-150
         | to get around day-to-day, maybe even just a bike :)
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | > I do a lot of similar stuff in my home network with a lot
           | less equipment.
           | 
           | This is also my case. For Internet access, I use a router
           | which has 4 2.5 GbE ports for the internal LAN, which was
           | made several years ago with an Intel NUC and 4 USB Ethernet
           | dongles, but which could be done today with a small and cheap
           | fanless router using an "Alder Lake N" Intel N100 or N200
           | CPU. There are also such small routers with more 2.5 GbE
           | ports for the internal LAN, e.g. 6 or 8. That router
           | implements a lot of network services, including DNS servers
           | for my domain and my own e-mail server.
           | 
           | I also have 5 servers that are interconnected by a 10 GbE
           | subnetwork, but that is done without external switches. Each
           | server has a dual-port 10 Gb/s NIC and they are
           | interconnected directly, in a ring. The servers are normally
           | powered off. Whenever needed, I power on the first of them
           | through Wake-on-Ethernet. Through it, I can power on, also
           | using Wake-on-Ethernet, as many of the others as needed.
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | Huh the ring topology is a really cool idea. With the right
             | routing rules it could open up some ports on my trunk
             | switch, though I'd need to upgrade my NICs. Great idea for
             | whenever I decide to retire the SBC though!
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | When all the servers of the ring are powered on, the
               | packets are distributed on both links, so the throughput
               | of the network doubles.
               | 
               | When a part of the servers are powered off, the topology
               | of the subnetwork becomes linear and the throughput
               | becomes limited to 10 Gb/s, but with less active servers
               | the traffic is also less.
               | 
               | Greater performance can be obtained by using two Ethernet
               | cards with dual 10 Gb/s ports in each computer. With 4
               | ports per computer total interconnection can be achieved
               | up to 5 nodes and above that each node can be connected
               | to two intersecting rings, which is a topology very
               | frequently used in HPC.
               | 
               | An alternative is to use a single card with dual 25 Gb/s
               | ports, per computer. Such cards are not much more
               | expensive than the 10 Gb/s NICs, but the 25 Gb/s switches
               | are very expensive, so a ring topology without switches
               | is even more attractive.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | He said in another post he has 17kw of solar, so...
        
           | irusensei wrote:
           | It's never about how green is the source of energy. It's
           | about people doing things with their energy in which they
           | don't approve. I mean... just read their xenophobic remarks
           | about a giant country of diverse people.
           | 
           | Don't bother appeasing climate hystericals.
        
             | pietro72ohboy wrote:
             | There's nothing hysterical about the OP's argument that the
             | setup is overkill and power hungry. It's important to note
             | here that OP is merely criticising the setup. It's their
             | right to speak freely about it just as you have the right
             | to call them a climate hysterical. Stop shaming people for
             | speaking their minds.
             | 
             | And my opinion is that the setup is indeed overkill. The
             | author(s) literally admit so themselves.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | If all this is running on renewable energy sources,
               | what's the environmental harm exactly?
               | 
               | The point that this is overkill and power hungry is
               | completely irrelevant. OP's comment is coming from their
               | high horse.
        
         | kristjank wrote:
         | I hope you're trolling. Power can be generated without an
         | environmental impact. There are companies (and F150s) dumping
         | kgbjillions more CO2 than this person's homelab is. Let people
         | learn something and have some fun.
        
           | ptman wrote:
           | It cannot be generated without an environmental impact.
           | Equipment has an impact and a limited life.
        
           | maeln wrote:
           | Power cannot be generated without an environmental impact.
           | Even solar panel and wind turbine generate a non negligible
           | amount of pollution when produced, and a non negligible
           | amount of waste when they have to be decommissioned. Also, it
           | is highly unlikely that he is using his own grid, he probably
           | pulling most of his power from the U.S grid, which (like most
           | grid to be fair) contains a fair amount of CO2 heavy sources.
           | And that is not even talking about the amount of pollution
           | and waste used to produced all that hardware he is running.
           | 
           | I get it, it looks cool and damn fun. I dream of this kinds
           | of setup. but brushing off the environmental impact is also
           | wrong.
           | 
           | Now admittedly, he is but a drop in vast ocean when it come
           | to pollution and waste, and there is definitely far worse
           | offender. But keeping our environmental impact in mind should
           | be a necessity in this era.
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | There, it's in mind; what can we do now to stop the big
             | companies from making things worse?
             | 
             | Individual accountability is important, but self-
             | flagellation or (vicarious) shame because forces bigger
             | than us are causing problems is a waste of energy (ha!).
        
           | komali2 wrote:
           | This is the argument that holds the most weight with me. It's
           | why, as much as I approve of Extinction Rebellion and their
           | kin, I think it's counterproductive to deflate SUV tires,
           | when the environment harm caused by SUVs is a fraction of
           | that caused by the companies profiting off oil and gas
           | extraction and refining. If you're gonna do a crime anyway...
           | 
           | It's similar to when there's hypocrisy charges levied against
           | "champagne socialists." Nice virtue signalling for worker's
           | rights for someone with a 6 figure income... meanwhile that 6
           | figure salary accounts for 0.01% the net worth of a
           | billionaire.
           | 
           | Go for the high stakes first, then we can worry about
           | homelabs pulling more power than they should.
        
         | ur-whale wrote:
         | > I have to categorize this as a (un)typical American person
         | 
         | Holier-than-thou much?
        
           | maleldil wrote:
           | Americans tend to drive larger cars than other nationalities.
           | These cars use more fuel. Most of these people do not need
           | large cars and would be fine with smaller ones that use less
           | fuel. Therefore, by choosing larger cars, they're using more
           | fuel than necessary. An explanation is that only care about
           | their own comfort, not the environment.
        
             | abwizz wrote:
             | tbf a lot of murricans live in rural environments where a
             | truck does indeed make sense because of the lots of unpaved
             | roads.
             | 
             | city dwellers not so much
        
               | patmorgan23 wrote:
               | Not really, American is pretty urbanized. Less than 20%
               | of the population lives in rural areas. Yet the most
               | popular vehicle for the past few years has been the ford
               | F150. It's not being bought by rural or working class
               | people, it's a luxury status symbol now.
        
               | abwizz wrote:
               | > American is pretty urbanized. Less than 20% of the
               | population lives in rural areas
               | 
               | i'd like that number put into perspective, but it does
               | not feel like on the low end.
               | 
               | > Yet the most popular vehicle for the past few years has
               | been the ford F150. It's not being bought by rural or
               | working class people, it's a luxury status symbol now.
               | 
               | thanks for the insight! but i struggle with the
               | combination of "most popular" and "luxury status symbol"
        
         | ryan-c wrote:
         | I am not running serious network gear right now due to power,
         | which is ruinously expensive in the UK to the extent that I
         | find myself longing for PG&E's rates in California.
         | 
         | Currently having a house remodeled, which I'm putting as much
         | solar (and battery) on as possible, and the gas is being
         | removed entirely. Going to try not to use more than the system
         | can generate, though I am not sure I'll be successful.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | > The generator is a 27kw Generator which powers everything in
       | the house. This means the UPS's only need at most 10 seconds of
       | runtime, as that's how long it takes for the generator to start
       | and switch
       | 
       | That Generac generator though: it powers everything but _only in
       | case there 's a power outage_ right?
       | 
       | P.S: there's a slight typo in TFA: it's Mellanox, not Mollonox.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Correct, only if there is an outage
         | 
         | Thanks, I'll correct that!
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Do you regularly switch to the generator to test it? Is that
           | automated?
        
       | trustingtrust wrote:
       | Biggest problems I have faced for home networks : ISPs are poorly
       | configured and do very shady things sometimes like DNS hijacking.
       | More often than not poor ONU firmware or hardware means you will
       | see weird things like latency spikes or straight up packet drops.
       | Sometimes IPv6 won't work if the ONU is in bridge mode etc. etc.
       | 
       | This post is overkill but what mostly works for home networks:
       | 
       | SQM - like cake sqm in openwrt - will work wonders if don't have
       | a great ISP. I have seen as much as 5% packet loss on one ISP who
       | said thats acceptable for a home network. Just reduce the load
       | until a point where packet loss is really low. Then use a DNS
       | resolver. DNS resolver will be much more reliable like unbound
       | for your local network as packet loss has cause really problems
       | with DNS for me. Cheap home network equipment dns is not
       | reliable. You could really just buy a cheap Pi and run a local
       | resolver. It would work a lot better than your home router. You
       | may also want to consider replacing the ONU. This is rather
       | easier than you think. The ISP ONU are really bad. A cheap NOKIA
       | SFP GPON is like 20$ on eBay and if you can figure out the PLOAM
       | password and Serial and Mac and VPN ID of your ISP, you will be
       | able to simply swap it for a more stable link.
       | 
       | All in all I would suggest for a simple home setup: get a cheap
       | SFP GPON and replace your ONU. Get a cheap router (either router
       | on stick with Rpi4 for <500mbit or x86 box with SFP for hitting
       | 1gbps with the SFP GPON) and run your own unbound resolver. Get
       | some APs and either wire them or get a cheap mesh router 3 pack
       | on amazon (you can get a wifi 6 3 pack for under 150$ these days
       | on sale) and run it in AP mode.
        
         | iptrans wrote:
         | Obvious caveats:
         | 
         | GPON networks are often vendor locked. This means you cannot
         | just buy any random SFP ONU and expect it work.
         | 
         | Even if you do get it to work, no ISP will offer you any kind
         | of support if you do this. Some might even take to it poorly,
         | if they find out.
         | 
         | Generally, the best option is to ask your ISP if they offer
         | other ONU models and choose from those.
        
           | trustingtrust wrote:
           | Almost all ISPs use Serial and (optional) PLOAM to
           | authenticate your ONU. Nokia GPON SFPs allow you to change
           | almost everything that is exposed to the ISP for
           | authentication. ITU standards mean that ISPs have to work
           | according to the spec.
           | 
           | ISP ONUs are locked for easier management for them. They will
           | give you 1/10th of the speed promised if it helps them deal
           | with support calls remotely rather than visiting your place
           | to fix it. Support calls where people complain for things
           | like 'I forgot my wifi password' cost ISPs a lot of money. So
           | they can basically just login to your ONU at any time
           | remotely and change settings for you like your wifi password.
           | They do remote firmware updates and what not remotely. This
           | is the biggest reason why ISPs love such modem router combos.
           | Support can be guaranteed with a phone call to fix your wifi
           | for the average Joe.
           | 
           | You will not get ISP support if you use your own ONU but if
           | you are using your own ONU then you are already at that point
           | where you know what you are doing. As far as signal issues
           | are concerned, like I said ITU specs mean they can see the
           | signal strength remotely. Everything else they don't have
           | access to but you don't need them to have that access. You
           | can always swap out the ISP provided box to troubleshoot.
           | 
           | If you actually swap out the ONU to a better one, chances are
           | you'll never need to call your ISP unless there is a fiber
           | cut or some serious signal loss somewhere.
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | Why would you use a local DNS resolver instead of using a
         | remote well-known resolver like 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 in a home
         | networking situation? Your systems will cache DNS entries to
         | paper over unavailability issues, and as long as you use one as
         | your primary and the other as a secondary, there's a very low
         | likelihood (probably < 0.0001%) that you'll ever have issues
         | resolving DNS.
        
           | trustingtrust wrote:
           | If you look at systems like Deco (and a bunch of others I've
           | noticed recently like linksys) the devices have stopped being
           | dns forwarders themselves to clients and instead they assign
           | your ISP (or the ones you've set for your ISP) DNS directly
           | to clients. This means your device now resolves dns over wifi
           | directly. This means each device is now relying directly on
           | google and cloudflare instead of relying on the gateway
           | (which being wired will experience the lowest latency
           | especially when it comes to redirects and should ideally have
           | a robust DNS server).
           | 
           | A local network resolver instead of forwarder on a client
           | seems to work a lot better in my experience especially when I
           | use root DNS on unbound. Yes a root DNS is a lot slower than
           | something like 8.8.8.8 but you could use an upstream dns with
           | unbound if you really want something faster. Either way, a
           | local DNS will be lot less problematic compared to if you
           | devices has to handle all dns over wifi including the
           | redirects (which happen a lot).
           | 
           | Almost every time I see a network problem, it's always a DNS
           | problem. In a typical home network setup these days:
           | 
           | client DNS cache -> upstream DNS -> root DNS. client DNS
           | cache -> local DNS - > upstream DNS -> root DNS.
           | 
           | My setup:
           | 
           | client DNS cache -> local DNS -> root DNS.
           | 
           | The first one works better if the network is wired. Second
           | and third one works better on wireless.
           | 
           | One alternative that works 'okay' is if the client directly
           | uses DoT or DoH for DNS. TCP works little more reliably than
           | UDP (wink) but neither Google nor Cloudflare offer signed
           | profiles for iOS and macOS (third party is there). Stubby
           | works good on linux and android and windows have a built in
           | solution.
        
           | abwizz wrote:
           | because those 3rd-party resolvers are not under your control,
           | which is usually interesting for someone running a homelab,
           | and lie in responses.
           | 
           | "it's always dns" should ring a bell :)
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | For a homelab yes, but I figured GP was referring to a
             | robust home network, not necessarily a homelab. "it's
             | always dns" goes both ways as I've had local resolvers add
             | huge amounts of latency to connection establishment.
        
               | abwizz wrote:
               | yea. i was also advocating against local resolvers in the
               | name of robustness, until my isp was starting to block
               | certain domains.
               | 
               | not really the fact that some domains i don't care much
               | about are blocked, but this is a dangerous precedent in
               | deviation from facts.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | I could do all that with a single ddwrt router behind my tv
        
       | mgaunard wrote:
       | I like how the small cupboard used to host the rack is bigger
       | than most bedrooms in European city apartments.
        
       | pm2222 wrote:
       | I didn't read in details. Why esxi is not incorporating whatever
       | that's on the rpis?
        
         | greggyb wrote:
         | The Pis are using GPS receivers to serve as NTP servers on the
         | local network. The specific appear to use GPIO pins. You would
         | not be able to wire these to the ESXI machines as readily. You
         | typically also want time-sensitive workloads running on metal,
         | as there are all sorts of potential complications with
         | virtualized time.
         | 
         | I am sure there are PCIe solutions that could easily go into a
         | more standard form-factor machine, but perhaps these are more
         | expensive or less readily available; this is just conjecture.
         | The ESXi machines have minimal PCIe connectivity. Perhaps such
         | a card could be put into one of the Supermicro chassis.
        
           | frankreyes wrote:
           | GPS modules use SPI which you can get a standard USB serial
           | adapter for $2 on eBay. As the title suggests, it's overkill.
           | Basically it's using the Rpi as SPI adapter.
           | 
           | Edit: USB to TTL costs like $3.5, it's like a standard RS232
           | serial port but much simpler and faster.
        
             | greggyb wrote:
             | Ah, cool. I didn't know that about the connection. Thanks
             | for sharing.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | While you could use serial through to to a VM, I need another
         | pin to get the PPS signal in. Not sure how to do that
         | 
         | I also like having them bare metal
        
       | 8fingerlouie wrote:
       | I used to have an overkill home network, complete with self
       | hosting everything and 10G backbone.
       | 
       | These days i'm more pragmatic. I have exactly 2 wired machines,
       | and everything else runs Wifi. The network "rack" is simply a
       | firewall and a 16 port POE switch, everything else network
       | related has been retired to the closet.
       | 
       | My NAS is gone. With electricity frequently going above EUR1/kWh
       | last winter, it seemed like a bad idea to have a NAS sitting
       | there, consuming ~35 kWh/month. Instead i spent about EUR20/month
       | on cloud storage, and simply upload everything to the cloud
       | (encrypted with Cryptomator), and i have redundant cloud storage
       | (different provider) included in the cost which is where my
       | backup goes.
       | 
       | All that's left at home is a small ARM based machine that handles
       | making daily backups of my cloud data locally, as well as run a
       | small Plex library on a single USB3 external drive.
       | 
       | Besides saving about half my previous electricity cost (as well
       | as all the hardware cost!), i have gained SO MUCH spare time. My
       | firewall is completely closed (save a wireguard VPN), and i no
       | longer have to maintain anything except the normal patch
       | routines.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | perfopt wrote:
         | Could you share how you set up the cloud backup? Also, what
         | cloud providers you use
        
           | 8fingerlouie wrote:
           | My cloud backup is rather simple, i use Arq backup with
           | Family365. Fits nicely that each user has 1TB space in their
           | personal OneDrive, and nobody here uses OneDrive.
           | 
           | My local backup is also done with Arq backup to a local USB
           | drive, though i have a long time test running with Kopia
           | backing up to Minio on a Raspberry Pi.
        
         | bdavbdav wrote:
         | Ugh. Agree with this.
         | 
         | My Synology NAS was failing. Saw that as a great opportunity to
         | set up a proxmox box on a reasonably powerful used HP SFF, run
         | TrueNAS on it. Plenty of time to get proxmox, TrueNAS, Gitea, a
         | docker host, ... just right.
         | 
         | It's sat there with 4/16TB used, no real data transfer apart
         | from TimeMachine from my Mac and my git server, sucking power
         | at European rates.
         | 
         | Wish I hadn't bothered, and had just gone with another
         | Synology.
        
           | sangnoir wrote:
           | > It's sat there with 4/16TB used, no real data transfer
           | apart from TimeMachine from my Mac and my git server, sucking
           | power at European rates
           | 
           | I have a similar setup with SFF running backups & ProxMox.
           | However, I have smart plugs for my SFF and have a script to
           | turn it on/off using cron (or on demand) from an always-on
           | Pi. Wake on LAN would have worked too.
           | 
           | I'm considering making my Raspberry Pi the gateway
           | proxy/"Load Balancer" to the SFF; turning it on if needed.
           | It's trivial to proxy HTTP (Pi works as a Caddy-based proxy
           | with long timeouts, powers on SFF in background if off.
           | Things got trickier for proxying NFS & iSCSI)
        
             | bdavbdav wrote:
             | This is a genius idea. I may try similar.
             | 
             | The box is on another routed subnet - I wonder if I could
             | firewall rule a "start" trigger.
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | I went the same way as... honestly, my IT burnout kicked in. I
         | went from an overly complex setup down to... well, a Ruckus AP
         | running as an Unleashed gateway directly hooked to a FiOS ONT,
         | its second port feeding a QNAP.
         | 
         | That's it, the entire network. Just enough storage to enjoy
         | some media, the QNAP runs HomeAssistant (literally just to
         | bridge some stuff to HomeKit) and Tailscale, and that's all I
         | really need.
        
         | wasksrhh wrote:
         | I recommend you checkout Rclone
         | (https://github.com/rclone/rclone) instead of Cryptomater, much
         | more robust and powerful software. I used to use Cryptomator as
         | well, but after my data exceeded certain size, it became slow
         | and difficult to operate. Plus, once I went to pull my data out
         | of it, I realised that it had reset file metadata on all my
         | files (I didn't know what picture was taken when anymore, for
         | example)
        
           | 8fingerlouie wrote:
           | I do use Rclone as well, but Cryptomator has one feature that
           | rclone does not, it allows me to access my data "on the go"
           | from my phone.
           | 
           | Personally i have never experienced any of the issues you
           | mention, but my Cryptomator vaults are also mostly below 1TB
           | in size.
        
             | matrss wrote:
             | If you are using android there is RCX
             | (https://github.com/x0b/rcx) as a frontend to rclone.
             | Rclone can also be used in termux. Not sure about apple.
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | Amen to this.
         | 
         | I moved house recently and the only things I did were running
         | CAT6 from where the internet enters the house, up to a PoE
         | switch in the loft that then has a few Wifi6 APs connected to
         | that.
         | 
         | Everything is wifi (all cameras, smart switches etc, office
         | laptop, a single RPi4 for "projects" and so on) and all seems
         | fine. The only device that is directly connected via ethernet
         | is a headless gaming desktop that lives in the loft that I
         | occasionally use for streaming games to a laptop.
         | 
         | But kudos for this guy if that is what he wants to do.
         | Personally I did _not_ enjoy doing the cable runs (especially
         | for external-grade CAT6).
        
           | 8fingerlouie wrote:
           | My cameras are still POE (UniFi Protect), but i had already
           | run the cables for it, so not much point i replacing them
           | just for the sake of moving to WiFi.
           | 
           | My "server" is also wired, as is my Hue Bridge, Tado Bridge
           | and other "IoT" devices that doesn't support wifi, but when
           | it comes to user accessible machines there is exactly one,
           | which is my "go to" machine in case the router/switch dies
           | and i can't get on the WiFi.
        
         | nuker wrote:
         | > My NAS ... consuming ~35 kWh/month
         | 
         | Translates to 50W.
        
           | earthling8118 wrote:
           | Thank you. I spent a good few moments trying to wrap my head
           | around this measurement.
        
             | AussieWog93 wrote:
             | Honestly, I thought it made more sense to measure it that
             | way if you're trying to work out the electricity bill.
        
         | missjellyfish wrote:
         | I still have my local NAS and will in fact be upgrading it
         | sometime this or next year. I don't trust cloud computing with
         | my data, even tough I'd rather forgo the complexity and
         | electricity cost.
         | 
         | But that's my price of freedom.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | Looks like every homelabber's dream.
       | 
       | My main feedback is give those fibers a bit more breathing room.
       | The bend radius is a little tight.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | All the fiber is specced as 20/10D, so should be well within
         | tolerance
        
       | jamesbfb wrote:
       | I love this so much! For anyone asking why, the simple answer is:
       | because they can! Hats off to you, Sir.
       | 
       | I wonder if this person works in IT? I'm a dev lead, I do silly
       | amounts of hours and when I actually have a decent amount of free
       | free time up my sleeve, the last thing I want to do is tinker
       | with my homelab.
        
         | jamespo wrote:
         | of course he does!
        
       | Dagger2 wrote:
       | All that and no mention of IPv6? At least get the basics down
       | first.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | Looks like they've got dual-wan (at&t fiber + verizon 5G
         | backup). It's pretty easy to do ipv4 failover with NAT as long
         | as you've got an indication that it needs doing; ipv6 failover
         | is a lot harder; unless you're going to NAT the v6 traffic too.
         | I don't know about Apple devices, but I couldn't get Android or
         | Windows to play nice with two v6 ranges in radvd. They wouldn't
         | listen to priority, and they would do derpy things like pick an
         | address from one router's advertisement and then send the
         | traffic to the other router.
         | 
         | In some magic happy land where you can use your IPv6 prefix
         | over both WANs, then yeah, things can work, but that doesn't
         | work for residences, generally.
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | Lol I get sym 1G/1G from my ISP and a free static IP address
         | for less than Comcrash offers for their 25/10 service in my
         | area...
         | 
         | The catch? _No IPv6 support whatsoever_
        
           | systems_glitch wrote:
           | Yeah, even with Comcast/Xfinity I run a HE.net tunnel for
           | IPv6, just so I can have truly static allocations and not
           | goof around with their DHCPv6 prefix request system.
        
             | hqsolomo wrote:
             | Dude, got any links to where I can read more? I see what
             | you have here and I want it for me!
             | 
             | I wasn't even aware you could use HE's services without
             | being a customer!
        
               | systems_glitch wrote:
               | https://tunnelbroker.net/
               | 
               | It's been around for a long time! If you do the IPv6
               | training certification, they do eventually send the
               | t-shirt :P
               | 
               | EDIT: They also provide free DNS for up to 50 domains at
               | dns.he.net which is also worth looking at if you don't
               | want to run your own for every little thing.
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | THANK YOU! This is perfect!
        
               | mrpippy wrote:
               | I haven't used it in a few years, but one downside of an
               | HE tunnel was that Netflix blocked traffic from it (since
               | people were using it like a VPN to avoid geoblocks).
               | 
               | I had to run a DNS proxy to filter out AAAA records for
               | any Netflix domains.
        
               | wahern wrote:
               | HE and Cogent are still feuding over IPv6 peering, too.
               | Using HE for regular web browsing will work fine, but if
               | you want to _host_ through HE your services might not be
               | reachable to visitors from a Cogent network, e.g. office
               | buildings.
               | 
               | The norm seems to be for hosting services to contract
               | with _both_ HE and Cogent if they decide to go with one
               | of them. This is why for typical client browsing you
               | wouldn 't notice--the other side has ensured you can
               | reach them. HE seems to be the cheaper option, so people
               | will route most of their traffic through HE, and then
               | separately contract with Cogent for the smaller amount of
               | traffic originating from/to Cogent networks.
               | Alternatively, you contract with another network provider
               | who handles that idiocy for you.
        
               | systems_glitch wrote:
               | That is true, and a bunch of folks (including me) were
               | experiencing issues with Google-related sites blocking
               | with a 403 FORBIDDEN on the initial /64 static allocation
               | from HE.net. Oddly enough, any subnet out of the optional
               | routed /48 you can enable worked fine.
               | 
               | For sites that use HE.net and have more than one IPv6
               | subnet, I use the initial /64 for the DMZ, so that didn't
               | matter on most of them. Small sites had just been using
               | the /64 though, and I had to renumber those. Total pain.
        
         | jonathantf2 wrote:
         | Probably not supplied, I've got no IPv6 on any connection I
         | have access to other than a few Azure VMs (and it's a PITA to
         | set up so we haven't bothered)
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I have ipv6 on both WAN's and ipv6 on LAN, but not any other
         | VLAN's
         | 
         | To be completely honest, I find ipv6 wildly alloying, but I
         | guess that means I need to learn more!
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Do you need ipv6 on a home network?
         | 
         | Honestly I just use ipv4 and turn off ipv6 everywhere. Then I
         | have just one configuration and one set of firewall rules (in
         | and out).
        
           | systems_glitch wrote:
           | To say "couldn't live without it" would be an exaggeration,
           | but we do use it extensively for work, and having it at home
           | makes WFH much easier. End-to-end connectivity, like in the
           | old days, is very nice!
        
       | tomerbd wrote:
       | I always get the cheapest plan from my ISP. So far all great.
        
       | snailtrail wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | lxe wrote:
       | I'm curious what the total cost of all this is. My reservation of
       | rack mounted setup has been cost of hardware.
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | It can be reasonable if you wait for good 2nd hand deals on
         | equipment, especially from startups shutting down.
         | 
         | My 10G switch with PoE and 4 SFP+ ports cost only $100, for
         | example, while many new products with similar specs cost $600+.
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | Can I guess what you're running? It sounds so much like my
           | switch- Brocade ICX series?
           | 
           | Best $60 purchase I ever made!
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | Aruba S2500-24P
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | Oh, still very nice!
        
         | vdfs wrote:
         | Cost of electricity is an other factor to consider
        
         | wredue wrote:
         | It's a black hole for your wallet. Once you start. You can't
         | stop.
         | 
         | But I also now have a bunch of electrician tools for running
         | wires, some private cameras that aren't google or Amazon spying
         | on everyone that walks by, and a network that isn't bogged down
         | by a couple people watching Netflix.
         | 
         | And I have plans for MORE.
        
           | KnobbleMcKnees wrote:
           | What cameras do you use?
        
             | megraf wrote:
             | Axis communications, exclusively.
        
             | wredue wrote:
             | It's all ubiquiti. I use the Bullet G4 pro and doorbell g4.
             | 
             | I'm not in any position to state anything about the
             | competition.
             | 
             | I am glad to have went the PoE route, even if running those
             | wires sucked ass.
             | 
             | I only did UI cameras cause everything else I have is ui.
             | There wasn't much more thought than that.
        
               | KnobbleMcKnees wrote:
               | I have ubiquity APs and a USG but the camera are so
               | expensive. I'll have to stick with my Chinese crapware
               | and a DNS blocker for the meantime.
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | If you're crafty you can work around this- three of my servers
         | (2 NAS boxes and a Proxmox box) were custom built from
         | commodity hardware. I literally bought plain ol uATX and ITX
         | decommed business gear from my local uni surplus store and a
         | P-Link chassis for each used from eBay. I spent more on drives
         | than I did machines (Y'ALL WANNA KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO BUY
         | 16TB WORTH OF SSDS FOR ZFS MIRRORS? TOO. DAMN. MUCH.)
         | 
         | You really gotta do some due diligence to make sure you're not
         | buying lemon parts but it's very possible to get a beefy
         | homelab at fair prices!
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I make sure to never count the cost!
         | 
         | But, its all used and all over a number of years, so not as
         | much as you'd think. If you went out and tried to get it all at
         | once, it would be crazy. Most things I spent a good while
         | waiting for the right deal to come up
         | 
         | Like the UPS alone, I saved probably close to $3000 off MSRP
        
       | meitham wrote:
       | This is beautiful and inspirational! I am about to redo my messy
       | homelab and have two questions: 1. I don't see any labels
       | attached to the cables, how do you know which-is-what? 2. I am on
       | pfsense too but I was considering a move to OPNSense, would you
       | explain why you choose pfsense over opnsense? Thanks
        
         | rb666 wrote:
         | Stick to Opnsense, it is better software that is better managed
         | with a clean historical sheet.
        
       | dikaio wrote:
       | All I could think while reading the post is, I want one.
        
       | yobbo wrote:
       | It seems it scratches the same itch as a model railway.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | You know, I'd LOVE a model railway...
        
       | physhster wrote:
       | ...and I thought mine was overkill! Great job!
       | 
       | You might however want to read about the grocer's apostrophe:
       | https://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/apostrophe_error_wit...
        
         | ojbyrne wrote:
         | That page includes the sentence "A word that ends in a vowel is
         | more likely to attracting this mistake."
         | 
         | I wouldn't bring it up but... glass houses.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I'll have to go over the whole post, I'm terrible at writing!
         | Quite a few errors have been pointed out. But I can just edit
         | them and pretend they never happened
        
           | physhster wrote:
           | Basically, you don't want to pluralize acronyms with 's. The
           | more you know :)
        
       | drpixie wrote:
       | Very impressive - but it would be terrible if they have to move
       | house!
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Honestly there is a few things I would do different now, so it
         | would be welcome to have a do-over
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | One of the main temptations to having a house built (probably
           | partially by me) is that I would be able to do all the wiring
           | _correctly_ (not just conduit in the usual places, but
           | decorative trim in each room that easily removes to reveal
           | the wiring cavity in the wall behind it, etc).
        
       | Thlom wrote:
       | >The Hubitat hub has now almost entirely been replaced by a
       | HomeAssistant virtual machine. The only reason it is here is to
       | connect the Z-Wave and Zigbee devices I have. However, I replace
       | those devices with WiFi versions wherever possible
       | 
       | There's cheap and reliable ZigBee/Z-Wave/433MHz USB dongled
       | antennas you can replace the Hubitat with.
        
       | iAm25626 wrote:
       | what no 100g or IB? Those price point have come to a point where
       | for home lab is bearable. Well we are talking about overkill. If
       | one want to play around with network do it virtually is a much
       | cheaper way to go: https://www.gns3.com/
        
         | selectodude wrote:
         | I run GNS3 on a three node HA proxmox cluster :)
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | Infiniband? Don't tease me with a good time
         | 
         | JK, wife would kill me
        
       | s09dfhks wrote:
       | I'll take that Lenovo M73 Tiny off your hands ;)
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | You in Houston?
        
       | WaitWaitWha wrote:
       | Did I miss the logical and physical diagrams?
       | 
       | I appreciate your hobby of a well installed home network. Add the
       | diagrams and you will increase your readers' comprehension
       | several fold.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Good idea, I'll work on some
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | This doesn't seem that overkill to me other than using fiber
       | optics, although I've done that in the past, unless you're doing
       | exceptionally long runs copper cabling is sufficient even at
       | 10Gbit within a home scenario. Seems like a decent setup.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | My main reason for using Fiber or DAC's is because of the power
         | consumption. Running 10G-BaseT uses about 3x the amount of
         | power
         | 
         | Plus, I always think fiber is cool
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | Surplus 10G switches at good prices are likely to be sfp+ and
           | not 10g-baseT at this point in time, too. DAC for same rack
           | is a no brainer at that point. To the rest of your house
           | depends on what you've got in the wall and how easy it is to
           | put new stuff, I guess. I'm running 10G-baseT between my two
           | network cabinets, because there's no economical way to pull
           | anything else, and there's no reason to go for more than 1g
           | other than fun.
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | True. That said, fiber can be painful to deal with.
           | Electrical isolation is one big benefit, as is power savings,
           | and of course forward-compatibility. I still prefer running
           | copper for residential, especially because you don't have to
           | be as careful about bend radius and such.
           | 
           | Within my rack I use DACs to connect all the gear, which
           | works well since it allows maximum performance over short
           | runs with minimal effort.
           | 
           | Nice setup though, my comment wasn't meant to criticize, I
           | think having a proper network at home is a big boost to
           | quality of life that most folks don't realize because they've
           | never experienced it.
        
       | frankreyes wrote:
       | I need a silent ECC server. Doesn't need to be super powerful but
       | I'd rather have at most one fan. Any advice?
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | I've been wanting to make an X570D4U-2L2T + CS381B build for a
         | year, but haven't been able to justify the price.
         | 
         | The Latte Panda Sigma looks pretty amazing too if in-band ECC
         | is sufficient.
        
         | greggyb wrote:
         | I'd start with something like this[0]. The only search term I
         | used was "xeon-d". You can easily find other form factors and
         | combinations. This line of CPUs is lower power (the linked one
         | is rated at 45W), so should be trivially cool-able with a very
         | quiet system. They support ECC RAM. You're likely to find
         | mostly Mini-ITX and uATX boards, so they will fit in just about
         | any case you want.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.ebay.com/itm/166190039675?epid=17034031881&hash=...
        
           | favorited wrote:
           | I've done this a few times, and the killer has always been
           | the RAM. By the time you're buying decommissioned enterprise
           | hardware, it's hard (or just expensive) to source RAM from
           | its QVL list - even harder so when you want ECC, which not
           | all of the QVL'd SKUs will be... And, in my painful
           | experience, if it's not QVL RAM there's a good chance it just
           | won't post.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | I've had no problem with getting the RAM (either new or
             | just more eBay stuff) - and even got a replacement
             | mainboard for relatively cheap when one burned up (it was
             | easier to swap the mainboard than reconfigure everything
             | for a new server).
             | 
             | The killer is the power consumption. It's better now
             | compared to old enterprise gear of 20 years ago, but you
             | can sometimes still pay for a brand new low-power system
             | just in power savings alone.
             | 
             | Of course, if you have solar onsite that doesn't matter.
        
               | greggyb wrote:
               | The power is part of why I prefer the embedded boards
               | like the one I linked.
               | 
               | Especially putting one of these _not_ in a rackmount
               | chassis, you can opt for quiet cooling and fans that do
               | not draw 10s of watts each. The idle loads can get fairly
               | low, depending on your additional peripherals.
               | 
               | For very low power, I actually prefer small form factor
               | machines, either used 1L SFF machines from the big OEMs
               | (see STH's Project TinyMiniMicro[0]) or one of the many
               | AliExpress mini PCs[1]. These sorts of machines tend to
               | use low-power CPUs and a lot of the AliExpress ones are
               | laptop parts.
               | 
               | As with all things, there are always tradeoffs. If you
               | enjoy researching and bargain hunting for hardware, then
               | this is a viable path. If you just want a machine that
               | works, then this is onerous work.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-
               | tinyminimic...
               | 
               | [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mini-
               | pc.html?catId=0&...
        
             | greggyb wrote:
             | The top spec 32GB RAM on the qualified list for the
             | specific board I linked earlier runs $40-$41 on ebay. The
             | same speed and capacity for generic DDR4 runs in the mid
             | $30s. The board has 4 RAM slots. So the premium for QVL RAM
             | for that linked board is $20 over generic if you want to
             | max out at 128GB.
             | 
             | Supermicro did have RAM issues in the early teens.
             | 
             | This sort of research is the non-dollar price of finding
             | deals on server-class hardware.
             | 
             | If you want to get something pre-validated, and usually
             | with a warranty, it can be worth it to look for resellers
             | for the major OEMs that also offer refurbished hardware.
             | It's more expensive than the typical options available on
             | eBay, but still much cheaper than new hardware.
        
         | rjsw wrote:
         | I have a HP MicroServer with ECC RAM.
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | Some Ryzen chips (I think- might be TR) often support ECC- see
         | if you can find a compatible mobo that supports ECC modules and
         | Ryzen sand! When I last checked there were a few products out
         | there
        
           | frankreyes wrote:
           | I've just checked and there's some mobos for $60 with ECC. Is
           | that for real? Supermicro costs like $1000, half that for
           | refurbished.
        
             | hqsolomo wrote:
             | Without looking at the listing I can't earnestly say what
             | you're seeing isn't fake but I know back when I had the
             | same question you're asking here I saw similar offerings.
             | Ultimately I bought a used ITX supermicro mobo+CPU combo
             | unit from eBay for like $200
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Do you really need ECC? Most people don't
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Many people got scared by the ZFS/ECC howling years ago, and
           | didn't really think it through (because they're running
           | without unverified backups).
           | 
           | https://www.klennet.com/notes/2022-11-25-zfs-and-ecc-
           | rant.as...
           | 
           | IF you can get ECC cheap, get it, otherwise, meh.
        
             | monstermunch wrote:
             | Yeah, I think you and me are on the same page there. It has
             | ECC? Great! It doesn't oh well
        
       | kuon wrote:
       | Here you would need a breaker after the UPS before going into the
       | wall because UPS is not considered up to code for breaking
       | leaking current and all outlets must have protection. That's why
       | I ended up not having a central UPS. How is it in USA?
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Allowed in the USA per code NEC 400.7
         | 
         | But, It would have been better if I fed a small sub-panel from
         | the UPS, and then went out from there. Shoulda-coulda-woulda!
        
       | thecosas wrote:
       | "This is also how you are probably getting to this blog, which is
       | hosted at home."
       | 
       | Curious to know how hitting HN impacted your setup (if at all)!
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Not much, because a lot of it is cached by CloudFlare
         | 
         | Total bandwidth over the past 5 hours is 253.37 GB. But total
         | cached and served by CloudFlare is 237.82 GB. Uncached is just
         | 15.54 GB
         | 
         | Here is CPU load on the VM:
         | https://files.networkprofile.org/apps/files_sharing/publicpr...
         | 
         | Networking on the VM:
         | https://files.networkprofile.org/apps/files_sharing/publicpr...
        
       | jancsika wrote:
       | Looking at this setup makes me think it would be interesting to
       | have a public-facing chat service on a 30-second clock where the
       | user has to pad tweet-sized messages with a pre-determined number
       | of zeros and complete sending them off before the deadline is up:
       | 
       | 1g lounge: must pad message with 1gig of zeros
       | 
       | 10g lounge: must pad with 10 gigs of zeros
       | 
       | 100g lounge: must pad with 100gigs of zeros
       | 
       | 1t lounge: must pad with 1 terabyte of zeros
       | 
       | 100t lounge: intelligence community meet-and-greet
       | 
       | Edit: relevance :)
        
       | tdhz77 wrote:
       | Reading this post makes me happy we are in the world of cloud
       | providers, but realize they don't magically work. People build
       | them. I'm glad I don't.
        
         | wredue wrote:
         | It's really not all that complicated. Although I still haven't
         | figured out if there's some secret way to properly creating
         | working Ethernet cables.
         | 
         | I get blisters on blisters on my finger tips when making lots
         | of cables.
        
           | monstermunch wrote:
           | Your time is too valuable to make ethernet cables. Either
           | punch down to a keystone jack or patch panel, or buy patch
           | cables
           | 
           | Gave up on that years ago
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Do you use a crimper?
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | You can get an Aeotech USB Zwave stick and plug it into your
       | Homeassistant RPi if you want to get rid of Hubitat.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | Are there any building code considerations (e.g., chimney effect
       | for a fire) regarding a multi-floor wiring chase? Isn't this why
       | laundry chutes are no longer permitted in some places?
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Its a single story home, however it is from 1968, so its
         | possible that in new code its outlawed or something
        
         | mindslight wrote:
         | I've also been curious about this in the context of making a
         | dumbwaiter, but not enough to do the research. I would think
         | having passive automatically closing fire rated doors would
         | take care of it, but I don't know.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | You could look into it but I think the reason laundry chutes
           | aren't made anymore has more to do with kids getting stuck in
           | them and less to do with fire code (after all, stairways are
           | chutes connecting floors).
        
         | gnopgnip wrote:
         | Riser or plenum rated cables are required by code if you go
         | between floors, except in plenum rated conduit. Conduit is
         | usually more expensive though.
         | 
         | Non rated cable more easily catches fire and makes a lot of
         | smoke. Plenum rated cable is about twice the price, but
         | ethernet is pretty cheap for a single home.
        
       | LouisvilleGeek wrote:
       | Really nice setup! the pfSense part made me smile!
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | as long as you're good that pfsense is not open and phones
         | home.
        
           | systems_glitch wrote:
           | Plus the domain squatting with hitler and goatse thing... :/
        
           | monstermunch wrote:
           | I've thought about switching to OPNSense, but honestly I'm
           | just set in my ways with PFSENSE now. Maybe when they really
           | piss me off I'll switch
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | I'm sorry- when did they start doing this? I've been mulling
           | making the switch to OPNSense. If pfSense is phoning home
           | aside from the update check I might have a busy weekend ahead
           | of me
        
             | comprev wrote:
             | Have a quick search about the bad activity undertaken by
             | pfSense against OPNSense and you'll soon change your
             | opinion on the company.
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | Welp, that was... A thing they did. Reminds me of middle
               | school antics, except these are grown folks. Guess it's
               | time to jump ship after all!
        
           | woleium wrote:
           | and that BSD still cannot do line speed gigabit on an Intel
           | gigabit nic.
        
             | hqsolomo wrote:
             | I dunno if this is entirely true- my current pfSense router
             | gets as close to line speed as I'll ever be able to get
             | with my setup (~900 both ways to a test server in Chicago
             | and on LAN) and I'm running an (overkill) i5 in my generic
             | Chinese minipc. It's possible that I don't have Intel NICs
             | but I swear I do
             | 
             | Got anything more I can read? Dunno if I'm just blind but I
             | couldn't find anything on this. I'd like to learn more!
        
             | systems_glitch wrote:
             | [citation needed]
             | 
             | We had no problem routing gigabit on an Intel Atom D525
             | years and years ago at a previous job. Consumer Mini-ITX
             | board, onboard gigabit NIC, and an Intel gigabit NIC in the
             | one expansion slot. It did require minor tuning, but
             | nothing that couldn't be done thru the web UI.
             | 
             | Everything I have to manage runs plain OpenBSD managed with
             | Ansible now, so I don't know what the current state of
             | pfSense/OPNsense throughput is.
        
             | monstermunch wrote:
             | Mine certainly can
        
       | ThatPlayer wrote:
       | What are the plans for the Meshastic mesh? I think having one
       | hooked up to a server to do responses could be interesting. Or
       | have you actually convinced other people to carry one around for
       | messages?
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | I wish every apartment would have at least some units of at least
       | half-depth of rack space. Fitting anything (even a basic setup of
       | a PaspberryPi + the PON modem + a minuscule switch + a PoE
       | inhector) into the tiny space behind hatch where the cables from
       | all the wall sockets end in my condo apartment is extremely hard.
       | And I am still looking for a 5-port switch which would be
       | manageable, support vlans, handle gigabit ethernet and inject PoE
       | if possible while being really small.
        
         | tosie wrote:
         | When powered adequately, the Ubiquiti Flex (USW-Flex) [1] might
         | fit your needs.
         | 
         | [1] https://eu.store.ui.com/eu/en/collections/unifi-switching-
         | ut...
        
           | qwerty456127 wrote:
           | Looks great but I woud prefer to avoid Ubiquiti because I
           | don't want to involve a 3-rd party cloud to manage it.
           | 
           | But I really appreciate your suggestion, perhaps I am going
           | stick to it as I've seen no alternative so far and my
           | previous experience with Ubiquiti makes me confident it will
           | do the actual job great.
        
             | jamespo wrote:
             | How about MikroTik hEX S 5 Port Router ?
        
               | qwerty456127 wrote:
               | This one seems suiting my preferences perfectly. I even
               | wonder how did I overlook it. Now I'm looking for a WiFi6
               | access point which would work on the passive PoE it would
               | feed.
               | 
               | You really helped me a lot! I wish you could feel how my
               | mood has improved. Now I feel empowered to implement the
               | set-up I wanted. This is a minor home improvement task
               | but it sitted in my to-do list (after numerous attempts)
               | for over a year.
        
               | jamespo wrote:
               | No problem, I only became aware of this recently and it
               | seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck.
        
         | ianburrell wrote:
         | I wish 10" half-width racks had taken off. They are available
         | in Europe but not the US. They would be good size for home
         | networking gear, if anything supported it, and gear would fit
         | in normal rack with bracket.
         | 
         | Is there a place nearby for cabinet, table, or shelves? Those
         | are good for hiding network gear.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | I keep meaning to produce a post like this. My setup is not
       | nearly as pretty though. Love to see the cannabis grow operation
       | exhaust fan, haha. Very well done!
        
         | f-securus wrote:
         | I didn't see a filter on the exhaust fan. He is so thorough I'm
         | sure he thought of it but I think he needs a filter to keep the
         | fan running long term unless he is filtering the air into the
         | room and that is good enough?
        
           | monstermunch wrote:
           | Nope, its ALL completely full of cat hair 24/7/365
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I hope you do, we need more like it!
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | Thank you for encouraging others. You've earned a loyal fan.
           | 
           | And thanks for sharing your knowledge. Infrastructure has
           | been an off and on hobby, but it's hard to know how to take
           | it to the next level. Or absurd levels (in the best possible
           | way), in your case.
        
       | adr1an wrote:
       | To all the comments on energy usage, check this out! this person
       | is using solar power, https://blog.networkprofile.org/17kw-
       | enphase-solar-install/
        
         | brandhout wrote:
         | Yeah but the sun doesn't shine during the night.
        
           | bcohen123 wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery
        
             | brandhout wrote:
             | I know but lead-acid and batteries aren't stellar for the
             | environment either.
        
       | saberience wrote:
       | But why? I looked at the page but could find no understanding of
       | what he gained from doing all this? I have a single wifi router
       | and power everything through that and still have much faster
       | bandwidth than the author does. It seems like a lot of energy,
       | time, and effort (especially for maintenance) for something with
       | minimal gains. I get 1 Gbit down and 500 mbit up and even in the
       | worst signal rooms it only drops to 600 mbit down and 93 mbit
       | up). Printers etc all work through wifi and backups are done to
       | several redundant cloud services. No wires required, no expensive
       | and energy guzzling servers needed, no patching or maintenance
       | needed.
        
         | snoman wrote:
         | Still cheaper than golfing.
        
         | orloffm wrote:
         | And now add the noise question to the equation.
        
         | chambored wrote:
         | OP presumably enjoys it. There's your why.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | 10g1k wrote:
       | My home network: Wifi router. Laptop. External hard drive,
       | encrypted. Ready to move at any time.
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | Sync that data to cloud-backed storage and you would literally
         | need nothing more than an Internet connection!
         | 
         | Granted, that means you NEED an Internet connection... But it's
         | as close to "walking data center" as anyone can get.
        
       | darkwater wrote:
       | When I worked with racks in datacenters, we usually put the
       | network gear facing the other side of the servers, so there was
       | no need to cross cables for the rack depth.
        
       | jolux wrote:
       | I just bought a Ubiquiti Dream Machine SE along with a U6
       | Enterprise a few weeks ago and so far it's my favorite tech
       | purchase ever. The management interface is years if not decades
       | ahead of everything else I've used before.
       | 
       | My only complaint is that there's no public API and thus no
       | official Terraform providers.
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | I actually moved away from ubiquiti stuff to OPNsense + TP link
         | AP. The firewalls rules on OPNsense makes a ton more sense and
         | the plugins are pretty awesome.
        
           | LeoPanthera wrote:
           | You can have both, as I do. I use UniFi switches and APs
           | controlled by a Cloud Key, but my router runs OPNsense
           | because UniFi routers are pretty bad.
        
             | syntaxing wrote:
             | You can run a UniFi hardware controller through a plugin on
             | OPNsense. Worked pretty well minus mongoDB conflicts with
             | zenarmor. But I switched to omada APs because they had
             | better range and speed.
        
         | petepete wrote:
         | I love my Dream Machine too. I bought it about six months ago
         | and it's been solid and was really easy for me, a novice with
         | advanced networking, to get going with vlans and firewall
         | rules.
         | 
         | I don't _need_ this setup at all, like I don 't _need_ cat6
         | ports in every room, there 's definitely an element of it being
         | a hobby. Maybe I just like flashing LEDs.
         | 
         | Sonos gear still using STP was an unwanted pain, all part of
         | the fun I guess.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | I would take Ruckus Unleashed over unifi all day long.
         | Ubiquiti, unfortunately, feels like everything is constantly in
         | beta, both hardware and software. Wait until they release a UDM
         | SE v2 and abandon firmware on the UDM SE.
         | 
         | The UDM in particular is a masterclass in how to upset all your
         | customers. (coming from a previous all-in UBNT customer that
         | had a first gen UDM Pro).
         | 
         | Ebay Ruckus + OPNsense and my network has never been more
         | stable and performant.
        
           | jolux wrote:
           | Yeah I've heard a lot of mixed things about their software
           | support but I did a lot of research and people seem to say
           | it's gotten a lot better over the past couple years. I
           | certainly wouldn't say any of it feels like a beta, it's
           | currently been up since I bought it two weeks ago with no
           | issues.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | How does Aruba InstantOn compare to Ruckus Unleashed?
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | The Unifi software is pretty incredible. I am not using their
         | router though (well... an ER-4 but it does not share the same
         | management mechanism) so I am missing out on a lot of the
         | goodies.
        
           | donutshop wrote:
           | ERX here. The EdgeMax line is still rock solid and have
           | incredible value for the price.
        
             | whalesalad wrote:
             | I see absolutely no reason to jump ship, it's one of the
             | most solid pieces of infrastructure in my network.
        
         | ErneX wrote:
         | I wanted to replace my EdgeRouter Lite with one of these but
         | sadly Unifi hasn't reached feature parity with their Edge line.
         | The Dream Machines for example do not support multiple VLANs on
         | the WAN port, when many ISPs use that configuration to deliver
         | internet, VoIP and TV.
         | 
         | I also read some bad stories of the Dream Machines unable to
         | restart after a power loss.
        
       | 404mm wrote:
       | This is some HW NSFW!! Wow!
       | 
       | I'm in a very similar situation when it comes connections, FW and
       | needs. I'm about to get a backup line for internet and it's
       | between Verizon (just like you) or Spectrum (same price, 500mbit
       | down). What was your reason for VZW? Was ATT your only wired
       | option?
        
       | Summertimes wrote:
       | What you using for out-of-band in case something goes wrong?
       | 
       | My favorite is ZPE Systems HSR, comes with 2 LTE modems that
       | supports GPS and I can run some containers on it too.
        
       | imiric wrote:
       | This is inspiring. Great work!
       | 
       | My homelab is a mess of cables, and half-baked deployments
       | running on old Supermicro and custom servers, that is way too
       | noisy, and probably pulls a lot of power. I wouldn't know, as
       | I've yet to track power usage... (One of those projects I never
       | get around to ';-D)
       | 
       | Everything's stacked on a Lack rack, even though I have a 24U
       | rack in a closet doing nothing. This is partly because of space
       | and cabling constraints, but _one day_ it will all be neat and
       | tidy, clean and efficient. One of these days...
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | >My homelab is a mess of cables, and half-baked deployments
         | running on old Supermicro and custom servers, that is way too
         | noisy, and probably pulls a lot of power.
         | 
         | I dunno man, sounds identical to mine...
        
       | stn8188 wrote:
       | Wow, and my wife says my network is complicated! :)
       | 
       | In all seriousness, thanks for sharing, this is really
       | incredible. I see a few similarities (fellow Harbor Freight
       | shopper, ADS-B receiver)... but I took the mostly lazy way out
       | and just use the TP Link Omada router, controller and access
       | points. Works great for well over 50 wireless clients that we had
       | at a recent BBQ. I particularly love your note about encrypted
       | LoRa networks at the bottom there, I'll be interested in a
       | follow-up on that topic. Thanks again!
        
         | xpe wrote:
         | Exactly. Those 50 wireless clients must be fed Internet while
         | their 50 subjugated humans eat BBQ and prioritize device
         | interactions over human ones. (I'm exaggerating of course! At
         | least you are having gatherings -- better than many of us!)
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Thanks!
         | 
         | I've been very interested in the new TP-Link stuff, they have
         | really come a long way. I don't know if I've really ever heard
         | of much wrong with the TP-Link stuff
        
           | applied_heat wrote:
           | I have the tp-link Omada APs with controller running in
           | docker on synology nas and am happy with it
        
       | gchokov wrote:
       | My first thought is - imagine hiring this guy to architect your
       | corporate network. The cost would probably be 10x for hardware,
       | for the "just in case" factor and coolness to the setup...
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | For a corporate network I would love to have more "just in
         | case". We had a day long wifi outage at the office once,
         | productivity plummeted and the cost of that far outweighs the
         | cost of buying and setting up back-up hardware.
        
           | justapcgamer wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | abwizz wrote:
           | it's even more economical to buy more hardware than hire
           | somebody to maintain it properly
        
       | envyac wrote:
       | Curious why you didn't stack them like...
       | 
       | 1. 24p Patch Panel (Odd ports of switch) 2. 48p Switch 3. 24p
       | Patch Panel (Even ports of switch) 4. 1u Cable Mgmt
       | 
       | Then you could have bought 4-6" Cat 5e/6a pre-made patch cables
       | to connect in the majority of your patch panel ports. The only
       | cables that would traverse through the cable mgmt panel would be
       | longer cables to the servers in your rack.
       | 
       | I have a similar Cisco switch as your 24 port. I am not fan of
       | how they arranged all the ports at the right side of the
       | enclosure. Why not make the 24p one row along the top (or
       | bottom), like the 48p with the 2nd row removed? It would be a lot
       | easier for cable mgmt.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | The reason its arranged like that is because it started as 1
         | switch and 1 patch panel, and slowly evolved, so its not ideal,
         | but I am fairly happy with the outcome
         | 
         | If I could re-rack it all, I might make some changes. But that
         | means turning everything off, and I'm not sure when, if ever, I
         | want to do that
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | > But that means turning everything off, and I'm not sure
           | when, if ever, I want to do that
           | 
           | Decent robustness check
        
         | greggyb wrote:
         | I noticed this as well. The patch panels seem only to bring
         | some wire to the front of the rack, only to immediately send
         | the patched wire toward the back of the rack again.
        
       | makach wrote:
       | This is not a home network but a home data center. I am envious,
       | but also glad that I don't have to deal with the maintenance of
       | this setup.
        
       | Fabricio20 wrote:
       | This is a pretty cool setup! I'm personally working on getting a
       | backup ISP connection going this week as well (two different isps
       | with wildly different upstreams), since poorly configured ISP
       | network issues have been plaguing me (random packet loss out of
       | nowhere, PPPoE issues, scenic routing to companies that have POPs
       | on my city, etc..) and I've pretty much exhausted all ISPs in my
       | area and they all have some manner of weird issue. So two ISPs it
       | is!
       | 
       | My setup currently consists of a single server with an i3-12100F,
       | which does all of nas + hosting (9TB array for windows image
       | backup of all local machines over smb + Home Assistant +
       | AgentDVR) and networking (dual ISP in, single gigabit out, all
       | handled by systemd-networkd and ip + firewall), and several
       | 1G-CAT6 runs connected to an unmanaged switch. Wireless as
       | several random brand APs scattered around the house, all running
       | on low power mode and being pretty much room-confined, 5GHz
       | everywhere, had mesh before and my experience is it just sucks!
       | 
       | Your post made me interested in those RIPE Atlas boxes.. I might
       | see if they are willing to send one down here for me.. with two
       | different ISPs on different upstreams I might have some
       | interesting data.. and maybe use that raspberry-pi I have for a
       | stratum gps server like you did as well... and maybe a weather
       | station too.. down the rabbit hole I go again!
        
       | edent wrote:
       | Can someone explain what the multiple GPS receivers are for?
       | 
       | I get using one for NTP.
       | 
       | I guess a second for redundancy even though it is picking up the
       | same satellites as the first.
       | 
       | And the rest?
        
         | defrost wrote:
         | There are 2x Internet connections + racks - one in a house
         | closet rack, the other in the garage.
         | 
         | Garage rack has a NAS that mirrors storage of the closet rack.
         | 
         | Garage rack has one Raspberry Pi GPS for time services.
         | 
         | Closet rack has two (different) Raspberry Pi GPS for time
         | services.
         | 
         | Looking at it that way, if you accept the 2x Internet
         | connections each being independant and acting as cross backups
         | in case of ??? then it's just the second GPS on the closet rack
         | that's "extra".
         | 
         | That can likely be written up as a home experiment in messing
         | about with a different Pi setup.
         | 
         | It's overkill .. but often these home setups are there to keep
         | current on new technology and different ways of doing the same
         | thing .. in that light it's not uncommon to have multiple ways
         | of achieving the same end just to gain knowledge on the pros |
         | cons of different approaches.
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Overkill... as the author says in the title.
        
       | godman_8 wrote:
       | Nice setup! I have a very similar Homelab minus the Generac (I
       | regret not getting one before inflation kicked in, especially
       | since I already have LNG to the home.)
       | 
       | My only recommendation would be switching your virtualization
       | over to Proxmox (LXC / KVM) and setting up an HA cluster with
       | Ceph and MLAG. It's relatively easy and free and will give you a
       | lot more features than plain ESXi and even free vSphere/vCenter.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Thanks!
         | 
         | Yeah, the price on this genset I think has gone up around $4000
         | since I bought it, not including the install
         | 
         | I've been meaning to try Proxmox, but my day job heavily relies
         | on ESXi, so its nice having something to mess with at home. I
         | am also running vSphere with an Enterprise licence, so I get
         | all the fancy stuff
        
       | zoom6628 wrote:
       | Ok seriously jealous of the setup. Have always wanted a rack -
       | just because.
       | 
       | I have way too many power cords under the desk but use fused
       | plugs and boards. Want a small cabinet just to keep cables and
       | devices away from small curious people.
        
       | deepsun wrote:
       | SpeedTest.net tests are useless, as ISPs give higher priority to
       | traffic to known speed checkers.
       | 
       | They can legally do that as we don't have Net Neutrality anymore.
        
         | bonestamp2 wrote:
         | https://speed.cloudflare.com/
         | 
         | I like this one because your speed really depends on what
         | you're downloading and this one tests some of those scenarios.
        
         | cardsofinhuman wrote:
         | Is this true? Do you have a link?
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | Not coming in with proof but I have personally seen this- a
           | buddy and I did some testing and the Ookla tests were the
           | only ones we did that were much higher than the others.
           | 
           | I'm sorry for not contributing with hard evidence but I've
           | seen this behavior (though I never heard about it from anyone
           | else before now)
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | I used to work for a small ISP. The boss specifically wanted
           | speed tests to be exempted from traffic shaping.
        
             | smegger001 wrote:
             | Not surprised. I have long noted that when my my browser is
             | strugeling to load tabs all i have to do is try connecting
             | to speedtest.net for all open tabs to suddenly load and i
             | have decent speed for the next 15-30 minutes.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Eh kinda... priority traffic shows the maximum potential speed
         | of your link. The max speed of your link has nothing to do with
         | the speed you'll get on any particular node on the internet.
         | For example if the ISP has too little peering bandwidth to some
         | other speed test.net host you will still be capped by that
         | link.
         | 
         | These days I rarely need large bandwidth to any single host,
         | but have a lot of bandwidth use between many hosts including
         | streaming applications. Bufferbloat is far more apt to be
         | problematic under this workload than ISP priority, unless there
         | is a bandwidth shortage on the local links.
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | That's the reason fast.com comes from the same servers as
         | Netflix content - it's difficult to prioritize one without
         | prioritizing the other.
        
         | NoPicklez wrote:
         | I believe that's why Netflix introduced the fast.com speedtest,
         | which runs through Netflix servers. Reducing the likelihood
         | that the test gets shaped.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | The link - https://fast.com
           | 
           | Cloudflare's - https://speed.cloudflare.com
        
             | SushiHippie wrote:
             | fast.com is the only browser based speedtest that shows the
             | accurate results for me. The results from there resembles
             | the download speeds I get when downloading files from
             | different sites or installing upgrades through my package
             | manager.
             | 
             | Cloudflare's speedtest often performs worse for me.
             | 
             | iperf3 - https://iperf.fr Is the most accurate CLI speed
             | test I've found (depending on which server you choose).
        
               | judge2020 wrote:
               | What's "accurate" is going to be different for every
               | website / destination network anyways. Unless you suspect
               | there's some issue with the speedtest software running on
               | the browser / target, it's showing you the accurate speed
               | you get to Cloudflare or whatever server you're trying to
               | pull from. If you just want to see what your ISP is
               | limiting your bandwidth to, sure, you need to find a
               | server that can hit that.
               | 
               | The best speed test is to download some large linux ISOs
               | with 100+ peers, so you max out your connection to tons
               | of networks.
        
               | SushiHippie wrote:
               | "accurate" is for me the speed I have on average
               | throughout the day no matter what endpoint and not the
               | max througput. If I'm doing a speedtest, most of the time
               | I just want to know if I'm now downloading file $x from
               | $y what download duration can I expect.
               | 
               | Downloading packages with $PACKAGE_MANAGER, downloading
               | files from $CLOUD_STORAGE, downloading videos from
               | youtube, downloading linux ISOs, receiving files through
               | $INSTANT_MESSENGER, ... they all are very close to the
               | speed I get with fast.com.
        
       | tibbydudeza wrote:
       | Overkill indeed - got just a single router but it is so flexible
       | (TP Link Omada) and runs various VPN tunnels without rebooting or
       | hanging.
       | 
       | No fancy CPU just a dual core MIPS based MediaTek 7621AT - the
       | key difference is the software, stable and well designed and not
       | some hacked together version of OpenWRT and some old version of
       | Linux from some random OEM that never get's updated after
       | release.
        
       | riley_dog wrote:
       | This person is pretty average over on /r/homelab.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I've stopped posting there as much, when my colo post got
         | removed for not being "in my house" i knew it was going
         | downhill
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | If you think a colo is a "homelab", then maybe _you've_ gone
           | downhill.
        
       | bazmattaz wrote:
       | This is incredible. I still can't believe some people get 1gb
       | symmetrical in their home. In the UK I'm stuck with 70mbs down
       | and 6mbps up. Pitiful
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | I had 1g symmetric in the bay area (thanks at&t) and it was
         | nice, but am now around your speeds (85m/13m) and it's clearly
         | worse, but not really terrible. Certainly not terrible enough
         | to pay $50k+ install to get munifiber, even though I'd enjoy it
         | a lot. Maybe if one of the ISPs on munifiber starts offering
         | 10g to residences. Not that I need it, but it'd be fun.
        
         | rjsw wrote:
         | I'm in the UK, getting 500MB symmetrical installed tomorrow,
         | could have ordered 900MB for PS2 per month more.
        
         | stwr wrote:
         | I'm in Spain and get 10Gbit symmetric which comes down to about
         | 7000mbps up and down on speedtests to my airbnb (in a small
         | town 30min away from a touristic hotspot) for 30 euro's. My
         | home in Barcelona gets 1gbit symmetric for 25 euro.
         | 
         | Competition here has gotten pretty good with lots of virtual
         | carrier being allowed by law to use telefonicas ftth which has
         | driven prices down.
         | 
         | I'm the opposite to you where I'm always surprised when I hear
         | people in fairly big towns/cities in US/UK etc are still on
         | less then 100mbit symmetric!
        
         | vel0city wrote:
         | A chunk of AT&T's residential fiber actually supports 5Gbit
         | symmetrical for ~$110/mo in the US.
        
           | throwaway1777 wrote:
           | I'm really hoping they upgrade my area some day but not
           | counting on it.
        
         | bashy wrote:
         | Maybe search around. I got YouFibre[0] few months ago and it's
         | 1000/1000.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youfibre.com
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | When I bought this house, a requirement was fiber internet. Not
         | dealing with garbage cable!
        
         | tdfirth wrote:
         | I'm in the UK (Oxfordshire) and have a 1gb symmetrical
         | connection at home. It's provided by Gigaclear - there's a
         | handful of other similar operators that do fibre in more
         | "rural" areas. It costs PS79 a month, so it's not cheap to be
         | honest, but I love it.
        
           | jonathantf2 wrote:
           | Ring em up and tell them you're leaving, they'll drop you
           | down to the new customer pricing. I've got the 1G up and down
           | for something like PS38 a month now?
        
         | PaulKeeble wrote:
         | Should hopefully change in the next few years, about 54% of
         | houses have fibre to the property and the plan is over the next
         | five years to expand that to nearly 100%. I have had 100/1000
         | for a while now but symmetric is still a rare product that only
         | smaller competing fibre companies are rolling out.
        
       | mpsprd wrote:
       | The single thing I am most envious in this setup is the little
       | box giving symmetrical 1Gbps from the ISP. I wish fiber could
       | grow in remote areas...
        
       | megraf wrote:
       | I've been fascinated by home labbing for a while now, and
       | maintain something with comical simplicity.
       | 
       | ESXI 8.0.1 worked out of the box with the 7090 I was given.
       | 
       | I'm migrating it from 6.7u3, which is running in 14 year old
       | hardware (injecting the drivers was easy btw - finding the
       | drivers was difficult).
       | 
       | ESXi is not managed with vCenter, it's a standalone host. I'm
       | hosting a handful of VM's that do everything I need.
       | 
       | Critical items are never sorted solely on the server; they're
       | stored on three remote sources, with integrity checks , and mock
       | restorations.
       | 
       | Fortigate 140d PoE, which handles a phone system and all of the
       | PoE I need.
       | 
       | Backups are simple. No RAID, again, critical stuff is not solely
       | on the server.
       | 
       | I use enterprise disks, and SMART - I'll get a notification with
       | ntfy if something gets wonky.
       | 
       | Server is consuming 60-160w. 16gb of RAM, non ECC, 5th gen i5,
       | 12TB of storage.
       | 
       | Homebridge, home assistant, scrypted, Asterisk, Samba,
       | Timemachine backups (all containers configured with compose,
       | checked into Git) windows 10 and 7 VM's
       | 
       | All of the hardware is second hand, with exception to the disks.
       | Ambient in the closet is 29, no dedicated cooling.
       | 
       | UPS with cyberpower.
       | 
       | Glad to see you're using solar, and that your hardware too is
       | used. When I worked in the industry they'd toss stuff I could
       | never afford...
       | 
       | FWIW: Proxmox seemed like something new to learn entirely, ESXi
       | seemed similar for me; I don't mind the RAID stance, or the
       | licensing...
        
       | fastball wrote:
       | I don't know if it was just a lucky guess, but as soon as I saw
       | that first pic of the house exterior with the BMW, I said "that
       | looks like it is in Houston", and sure enough...
       | 
       | Can someone with more knowledge comment on whether that
       | particular design is more common in Houston or was it really just
       | a lucky guess? I kinda feel like that carport-style design is
       | very Houston, haven't seen it as much in other cities.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Houston or Southern California was my guess, because I've seen
         | things like that there, too.
         | 
         | But I suspect it was popular in the south as a whole for a
         | short time, that time being when major sections of Houston were
         | built.
        
       | rbc wrote:
       | Much nicer than my setup. I have three small form factor PCs
       | running OpenBSD tied together with a small Netgear gigabit
       | switch. Each has an external drive for backups using rsync and
       | dump. Copies of the backups are made to another drive for offsite
       | storage. One computer is a workstation, the other two are
       | servers. One server is for internal use, the other is for
       | external services. WireGuard is used to tie the outward-facing
       | server to an Internet hosted server so services can be passed
       | between them. There's no UPS though. I didn't want to deal with
       | battery maintenance... Power outages are taken when they occur.
       | One thing about that, the computers bios are set to leave the
       | computers off if the power blips. The whole thing sits on a
       | single shelf of the bookcase.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | Is there a post that covers the "why?" of all this? As someone
       | researching maybe running some Ethernet for more stable WiFi and
       | faster Internet access for general stuff, _maybe_ some fiber for
       | infotainment other purposes since it can lengthen various cables,
       | and hooking up some security and nature cameras, I can 't fathom
       | why all of this is needed outside of it just being a hobby or
       | running some sort of business (trading?) at home. For example,
       | isn't $600 for redundant Internet for like the minutes the
       | Internet is out every year worth it? Why is that level of
       | connectivity needed?
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | I have been working remotely since about 2005-2006. I have
         | always love a good Internet connection with backups (wherever
         | possible). I remember befriending the local cable guy so I can
         | get 1Mbps in 2000.
         | 
         | Now, I have three Internet connections bonded and balanced. It
         | is not about the minutes of disconnection but more about the
         | disconnection when I needed it most. I have ample non-internet
         | time and personal/family downtime. However, when the time
         | comes, I'm happy that the Internet is never a bottleneck in my
         | work and play. I have had this setup since around the early
         | days of the Pandemic and our home, per se, "never had an
         | Internet Outage" since.
         | 
         | I'm not into servers, devops, networking or anything of that
         | sorts, but I love tinkering with them. I would love to have an
         | "overkill home network" one day.
         | 
         | Internet is super cheap in India and I can afford all three for
         | a really decent price. https://www.instagram.com/p/CUWeopdPVOp/
        
           | LeafItAlone wrote:
           | Sounds pretty neat!
           | 
           | Just wondering: 1. How often do you actually need the third?
           | As in, both primary and secondary are down. 2. Is it that
           | important that you always have an internet connection?
        
             | Brajeshwar wrote:
             | After the 2nd, it was more of a fun and why-not! It is
             | cheap, and comes built-in with a free Netflix subscription
             | and quite a few others. I think it even has an unlimited
             | voice call if I want to plug in a phone and use it.
        
         | wesapien wrote:
         | Most of the time it's the IT Infrastructure, Operations,
         | Security guys that love to do this for (WHY) learning, testing
         | and as a hobby. Check out r/homelab and r/selfhosted for more
         | on this.
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | Servethehome forums and smallnetbuilders are also good
           | resources, if you're not a fan of Reddit for some reason!
        
         | hqsolomo wrote:
         | Speaking personally, it's just another form of tinkering.
         | Nobody HAS to do it, much like nobody has to buy and maintain
         | their own computer, car, home, etc... We do it because we can
         | and it makes us happy.
         | 
         | Extra note- I would NEVER recommend a business use their home
         | resources for work unless you know what you're doing (and why
         | you're doing it). Even my homelab has vulnerabilities and I'm a
         | security professional- more moving parts = much larger attack
         | surface. There's a reason why corporations pay big buck$ for
         | managed security services. Most homelabs I've seen are mostly
         | for fun and personal comfort.
         | 
         | "What good is knowledge that is never applied" is what drives
         | me to stuff like this. I can't speak for others but I'm sure
         | I'm not the minority here.
        
           | fjfuvucucuc wrote:
           | Pretty much this. I wanted to learn about networking and
           | server management that I no longer get to do as part of my
           | day job.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Gotcha. Thanks for the reply! To be clear, it wasn't a
           | judgment but just a question to understand there weren't some
           | unapparent reasons why. I think it makes total sense as a
           | hobby and learning, but perhaps still overkill as the post
           | title mentions. Haha.
        
             | hqsolomo wrote:
             | I apologize if it seemed like I was irate- I'm not and your
             | question is 100% the question we all ask ourselves before
             | doing things like this (or for some of us, it's the first
             | question on the wife acceptance factor audit). If anyone is
             | running a data center in their home for a serious reason
             | they either have small loads to justify the power
             | consumption (rpi k8s cluster says hi), stacks to blow,
             | regulatory pressure, or isn't factoring the costs in and is
             | in for a rude awakening. I don't think (but also don't
             | know) these labbers are the majority, and us homelabbers
             | are already a rarity.
             | 
             | If it makes you feel better, megacorps are getting out of
             | the "self-managed data center" industry and embracing the
             | cloud, to exemplify your very point.
        
               | bmitc wrote:
               | Lol. I was under zero impression that you were irate or
               | anywhere close. My question was a little judgemental
               | perhaps but not necessarily meant in any way. I was also
               | curious if there was some interesting need that had come
               | up. My primary thing that I want is a bunch of PoE
               | powered nature cameras, buy I'm still figuring that out.
               | It will affect whatever comes up though. Oh, and stable
               | WiFi coverage.
               | 
               | I certainly have hobbies that go above any need or
               | reasonable collection, namely synths and books. Haha.
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | It's interesting that you mention PoE nature cams- I
               | designed a PoE home surveillance system for a friend that
               | involved setting up a solar panel on a 30' pole that fed
               | a box with a shitty camera system in it at ground level.
               | From there he set the cams around his property-
               | particularly where the foxes and coyotes would travel to
               | get to his hens. The whole project was apparently about
               | $800 aside from the solar panel (I just gave him the
               | idea- I didn't help him build it).
               | 
               | He eventually got rid of the cameras because, well...
               | They were shitty and only told him the critters were near
               | AFTER he popped 'em. I think he's got a for-purpose
               | system (in his own words "the new cameras didn't fall off
               | a truck") now but it was a fun project!
        
             | resonious wrote:
             | I still think your question is reasonable. Even when
             | someone is doing something for joy, there's usually a spark
             | - an essence to it. There's usually an initial motivation
             | that sent them down the rabbit hole, and it's interesting
             | to hear what it was.
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | There is no "why". Some people like boats. Some people like
         | servers. People spend money and time on things they like.
        
         | comprev wrote:
         | For the same reason some people cycle around the world instead
         | of just a casual ride on Sunday morning like many cyclists.
         | 
         | Some tech people enjoy "homelabbing" and happily throw money at
         | their hobby.
        
           | frankreyes wrote:
           | I'd say similar like sport sailing, but yeah there's some
           | bikes that cost more than a sailboat.
        
             | comprev wrote:
             | Being out on the water is such a peaceful experience.
        
               | thombles wrote:
               | Take too long to winch in the jib and it's another matter
               | though. :)
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | It's a good question, as long as the why is not a burden to be
         | met.
         | 
         | First it's a useful skill set that helps troubleshoot problems
         | in code and apps that run on networks by knowing how such
         | things work.
         | 
         | Second, try to think of it as a private cloud instead of a
         | network. Because it uses a lot of the same types of software
         | cloud provider do. Proxmox is one example that is a self hosted
         | vps provider that is tremendous. So, it's a private hybrid
         | cloud that can push from your cloud to the other voids (or
         | back). Build using a private hybrid cloud and you can push
         | to,or between manu clouds
         | 
         | Wifi is for convenience, wired is for reliability. When wifi
         | gets jammed, spotty, interfered with which can happen more
         | often than imagined, especially during break ins, wired wins.
         | Transferring files? Wired wins. 4K streaming ther doesn't cut
         | out when multiple devices are doing it at once? Wired wins.
         | 
         | Self-hosting is much easier than it was 5,10,15 years ago.
         | Tools like proxmox loaded with yunohost running on a 1L
         | usff/mini/tiny pc with 64 gb of ram and mirrored ssds ther
         | maybe mirror to another i de oval box can sip power but power
         | production grade apps for you personally. If you buy big beefy
         | servers it will cost a bit more electricity.
         | 
         | Still, hosting locally can quickly pile up the savings on saas
         | not spent.
         | 
         | Imagine being able to keep up all your test projects you might
         | spin up a paid VPS for and run for way too long. They might not
         | be production grade, but there is something valuable about
         | having them around.
         | 
         | Data backups - the cloud is just someone else's computer sold
         | as convenient but not secure. Having your own local copy when
         | the internet goes down means not as much of your life or work
         | goes down. Remember it's not a backup if there is only one copy
         | of it.
         | 
         | Backing up your computers in the cloud are only so helpful when
         | they are down, a lot of time to download them. Local backups
         | win again.
         | 
         | Multiple connections can matter for people who wfh and can't be
         | down, or have spotty internet that is up.
         | 
         | If you like smart home tech, it's a ticking clock until the
         | cloud based supports for it that are usually free dissapear
         | leaving perfectly good gear unusable. Instead you can run a
         | local instance of home assistant, etc.
         | 
         | I used to host morethan I wanted ina. Data centre much like
         | this rack. I was hesitant to come back to self hosting or
         | homelabs but j have realized a home server that runs like an
         | appliance (in between that wiring) capturing the sum of all my
         | data and worn as services come and was pretty much unavoidable.
         | Luckily it's getting easier and easier to do.
         | 
         | Hope that helps.
        
         | Emjayen wrote:
         | Although not as elaborate as this, I have what one would call a
         | "homelab" and it's for, well, testing and experimenting -- I
         | write a lot of high-performance server/network-centric software
         | (e.g, saturating a 100G link with 64B frames is a common test)
         | and virtual machines just aren't suitable/capable most of the
         | time.
        
         | theossuary wrote:
         | There's a reason other than "because it's fun to tinker." I do
         | it because I love the capabilities it provides. I don't love
         | managing Ceph & Proxmox & whatnot, but I love being able to
         | deploy whatever I want into a beefy cluster with 10gb without
         | having to worry about cloudspend. If I wanted to replicate what
         | I run in my home infra (I don't consider it a lab), it'd cost
         | 200-300 in compute and easily another 300 in storage a month.
         | Instead I spent ~2k on hardware and ~35/month in electricity.
         | 
         | It's the same thing with 3d printers, some like them because
         | they want to install clipper and tune the best/fastest benchy.
         | I do it because they love being able to CAD something and have
         | it in my hands as soon as possible.
         | 
         | That said, nobody goes as far as this guy without really
         | enjoying the tinkering
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | Very well said- good catch! That's a very compelling reason!
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | What do you run on your cluster? CAD compute?
        
             | theossuary wrote:
             | No, but that'd be neat! I don't have GPUs in my cluster
             | though.
             | 
             | My big services are a Ceph cluster, a VPN, Borg (backups)
             | and a K8s cluster (using kubespray).
             | 
             | In K8s I have the main stuff: Plex, Gitlab, Gitlab runner
             | (for CI), vaultwarden (passwords), miniflux (RSS, might be
             | moving to freshrss though), rust desk (remote-desktop),
             | home assistant (smarthome).
             | 
             | My next project is to stream metrics into grafana. I have
             | soil moisture sensors in my garden connected to stm32
             | boards, I just need to setup the receiving side and I can
             | control my drip lines (they're using opensprinkler) with
             | soil moisture information along with weather info.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | It's a hobby that can pay dividends in multiple ways, don't
         | really have to look deeper than that.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Why not? I had a pretty elaborate setup in the house I sold
         | during covid (fortunately the purchaser was enthusiastic about
         | it) with a wiring closet in each wing and a fibre spine running
         | between them. Not at all as elaborate an external connection as
         | the author but I had a lot of machines and wanted to keep
         | wireless bandwidth for things that moved around.
         | 
         | One handy trick: I had at least one drop in each room, often
         | one for each wall of the room. Behind the wallplate was a NEMA
         | box with a conduit running straight down to the crawlspace (6'
         | high in my house so hardly "crawl"). That made it easy to pull
         | cable, not only initially but if I found I needed an extra run,
         | which hardly ever happened. Instead of trying to run through a
         | rat's nest of conduit the conduit was a straight shot and then
         | the cables could easily be managed.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | This is clearly the guys hobby. He does it for the act itself.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Setting up a home network, especially with cisco gear, can
         | easily pay for itself 1000x in sysadmin or network engineer
         | employment opportunities.
         | 
         | This is exactly the kind of nuts and bolts guy that is
         | indispensable when keeping a cloud running.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | Another personal anecdote.
         | 
         | Wifi is rock solid, networking is fast, backups good and
         | outages are almost nonexistent and are always due to me messing
         | with things. I have Netflix, Apple TV+ (is that what it's
         | called?) and a few others. Particularly with Netflix, the
         | quality is junk so I watch off Plex.
         | 
         | Other benefits are pretty neat too. POE just works. You can
         | power cycle things remotely if you want (have never needed to)
         | and the abundant local storage makes everything easy.
         | 
         | Enterprise stuff that is getting old is also dirt cheap.
         | Converting sections of the network to 10gbe was very
         | inexpensive.
         | 
         | It's all rather addictive...
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | I mean, "need" is a pretty strong word. No one needs a MacBook
         | Pro, you can do everything on a Raspberry Pi just slower
         | (exaggerating but you get the point). Personally, having
         | reliable internet has been a significant increase in quality of
         | life but admittedly, mesh routers are getting closer and
         | closer. The biggest draw are VLANs. When even the FBI
         | recommends separate networks, it shows how prevalent these
         | issues are. I know a bunch of people that got affected by
         | cryptolocker. While having good practice is probably what helps
         | me a lot, a hardened network helps tremendously.
        
         | matthew-wegner wrote:
         | I built a pretty serious "homelab" over a few years, in the
         | sense of building out 24/7 services as robustly as possible.
         | There is an element of practicality for very long-term
         | maintenance if you run i.e. VMs off a different storage layer.
         | 
         | But mostly? It felt exactly like exploring computers in my
         | childhood for the first time (I'm 43 now). I was bumping into
         | things I had never bumped into it before, and it was really
         | satisfying to figure all that stuff out.
         | 
         | I'm a game developer, too, and I realized awhile ago a big part
         | of that is I like technical puzzles, and game development is
         | very fertile soil. But there is a whole new world of enterprise
         | networking/storage/virtualization/etc things that you wouldn't
         | normally bump into in the course of software development.
         | 
         | And as a bonus, I have set up a lot of build systems for
         | friends; being infrastructure-savvy is like the digital
         | equivalent of owning a truck and helping people move all the
         | time.
        
           | fzeindl wrote:
           | > There is an element of practicality for very long-term
           | maintenance if you run i.e. VMs off a different storage
           | layer.
           | 
           | That is very good advice. I know about a datacenter
           | outage/degradation in a very large company, which all of you
           | know.
           | 
           | A couple of network switches got overloaded. The switches
           | connected the SAN to the VMs, so it caused all kinds of weird
           | problems in different applications.
        
             | nanidin wrote:
             | AWS or cloudflare?
        
         | groby_b wrote:
         | This depends on your area, and your ISP.
         | 
         | If, say, you use AT&T and you need Internet for your job
         | (WFH?), redundant Internet is crucial. It's not exactly
         | "minutes" they are out. (Their outages states are often "meh,
         | we'll get around to it in a day or so", figuratively)
         | 
         | If you live in a rural area, even more so. You're not high
         | priority for fixes in the first place. (And AIUI, the author
         | lives somewhere in rural Texas)
         | 
         | Do you need to run it as high tech as that? Probably not. My
         | alternate Internet is my cell, tethered. (And if that breaks
         | e.g. during travel, yes, I have a second cell with a separate
         | provider, because heaven forbid the US had consistent cell
         | coverage)
         | 
         | And most of us probably don't give a damn about e.g. 1,000 year
         | photo retention. Or many of the other things he's doing. But it
         | sure is fun if it appeals to your personality, and you can
         | afford to keep it running.
        
       | rsecora wrote:
       | Cool
       | 
       | but is astonishing how expensive is the connectivity in other
       | countries.
       | 
       | >>> Verizon Gateway sitting on top of the rack. I get pretty good
       | signal here and get the rated speed, of around 300Mb/s down and
       | 20Mb/s up. This costs $50/mo.
       | 
       | There are offers [0] in the EU of 10Gbps / 25 Euros/mo.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.digimobil.es/fibra-optica/
        
       | ListenLinda wrote:
       | I knew this wasn't an overkill network when I saw an SG300 switch
       | in the first pic.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Call be crazy, but I dig the SG switches
        
       | systems_glitch wrote:
       | Very nice setup, thanks for documenting it! I used to have a much
       | more involved at-home network, but since moving the business out
       | of the garage, I've moved most of the network stuff with it.
       | Still think I'm going to have to pay pole attach fees and string
       | my own fiber if I ever want it at the house...
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | We want to see you run that fiber! Do post about it if you ever
         | do it
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | Come on, let's admit it fellow HNers... Most of us are
       | jealous/envious of this network setup and would love to have the
       | money and time needed in order to own something similar. Extra
       | points for powering all these from solar panels and also for all
       | the "little" gizmos (ADB, NTP, LoRa, TinyPilot, MQTT and
       | temp/humidity/power monitoring).
       | 
       | @monstermunch You're living the dream :-)
        
         | doublerabbit wrote:
         | I'm more interested in my colocation setup than my home setup.
         | I have 2x1u in two different data centres.
         | 
         | Just built one of my new servers (Cisco UCS 220 M5) with 2x 4TB
         | Enterprise NVMe drives, 4x 2TB enterprise SAS SSD drives and 4x
         | 2TB SSD drives, 256GB of ram and 2x Intel Gold 6230 (20cores).
         | I don't even need this, I just want it.
         | 
         | Just deciding on if to keep with FreeBSD and bHyve which I
         | love, or go with VMware.
         | 
         | If owning an IP block wasn't EURLOL, I'd complete my monopoly
         | set.
         | 
         | (Sorry, had to brag somewhere)
        
           | Qwertious wrote:
           | Owning an IP block is baaically free, with IPv6. Pity that
           | network effects (pun not intended) make that impractical
           | right now.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | wink wrote:
         | I'd guess a good portion of us have been at that point in our
         | lives but has moved on and downsized or shudders at the thought
         | of keeping that monstrosity of a rack in service or updated :P
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | And not a single mention of the noise level in this room. Those
         | rack servers get insanely loud.
         | 
         | I had a single SuperMicro in the basement one summer and it had
         | to go after a month or so. You could hear it everywhere.
        
         | throwawaylinux wrote:
         | It's very cool, I just don't know what I would ever do with it.
         | And I'm not saying that means therefore I don't see why anybody
         | else would need or want it, I would never use it though. I was
         | thinking about running an ethernet cable or two around the
         | house to hook up a 1gb link but I couldn't be assed in the end
         | because wifi is good enough. It's not like I can max out my
         | 11mb/1mb home internet. \My new laptop's wifi is a bit flaky so
         | maybe I'll do it this year if the drivers and firmware don't
         | come good.
         | 
         | Cameras and weather station are nice though.
        
         | saberience wrote:
         | I'm definitely not jealous, it just looks like an annoying pain
         | in the ass. I have a faster network than the OP and it's
         | cheaper and wireless and I don't have any servers or cable
         | everywhere nor maintenance to do...
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | I wouldn't want to read a blog about your setup.
        
           | snoman wrote:
           | You're running faster than 10Gbps on wireless? How's that?
        
             | ElectricalUnion wrote:
             | It's probably running several aggregated 60GHz links, or
             | it's own private 5G millimeter wave deployment.
        
               | snoman wrote:
               | That's still not going to crack 10Gbps.
        
         | larschdk wrote:
         | I'm not, even though I also DIY. A multi-2.5GBe port fanless
         | N6005 mini-PC (plus a cheap barebones WiFi AP) does it for
         | router, switch, storage, game server (Valheim & Satisfactory),
         | timeserver (chrony), DNS (unbound with blocklist), InfluxDB,
         | MQTT, and it doesn't even sweat, and consumes less than 20W
         | combined.
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | I'm definitely jealous. I think it's ridiculous and awesome at
         | the same time. I imagine it uses a lot of electricity though.
        
       | cyounkins wrote:
       | Anyone else have experiences with Ruckus APs? I have Unifi right
       | now.
       | 
       | edit:
       | 
       | RUCKUS R760 - $1800 - Wi-Fi 6E 4x4:4
       | 
       | RUCKUS R560 - $950 - Wi-Fi 6E 2x2:2
       | 
       | RUCKUS R750 - $820 - Wi-Fi 6 4x4:4
       | 
       | RUCKUS R650 - $520 - Wi-Fi 6 4x4:4
        
         | VTimofeenko wrote:
         | I have been running Ruckus I got off ebay for quite a while
         | now. Flashed it into unleashed mode and it has been rock solid.
         | In fact I am typing this comment while being about 100 ft away
         | from the AP.
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | Buy used off eBay 100%! Don't pay those prices
         | 
         | Even a few year old AP will work great. My R510 is pretty old,
         | but works flawlessly
        
       | hqsolomo wrote:
       | Nice and clean, great work!
       | 
       | If you don't mind me asking, does your energy bill take a huge
       | blow because of this? I had a modest homelab set up and had to
       | start shutting things off due to how much it costs to keep it
       | running
       | 
       | I apologize if I missed this info in the blog!
        
         | pm2222 wrote:
         | Perhaps there's solar.
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | That would definitely be a big help, lol. I also imagine part
           | of my problem is my house wiring- the previous owner had the
           | place reno'd in '96 and clearly got the landlord special
        
           | monstermunch wrote:
           | Correct, 17kw of solar on the roof
        
         | phito wrote:
         | I had bought an used enterprise server (Dell something), but it
         | just used too much power and made some much noise. It's not as
         | professional or reliable as op's homelab, but I'm now hosting
         | most of my stuff on an Intel NUC. It's a much better fit for my
         | use case and budget
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | Having a rack alone doesn't consume anything, it's what you put
         | on the rack.
         | 
         | I have a rack setup and most of the time it consumes around 200
         | watts during the daytime and 100 watts at night, but can spike
         | upto 600 watts if I put a heavy CPU+GPU load on it.
         | 
         | I also put my desktop into suspend at night, something which I
         | think a lot more people with desktops could do. Don't run 24/7
         | services (e.g. Home Assistant) on your massive desktop with an
         | i7/i9 and a GPU. Run that stuff on a NUC or Pi4 or anything
         | that has low power consumption. Then turn your desktop on only
         | when you're actually using it.
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | I get that but the blog discussed a pretty beefy setup. My
           | whole rack still used less power than my gaming PC at load
           | but after doing the math I ultimately saved more money by
           | going serverless for my apps and dumping (non-critical) data
           | into a B2 bucket on paper. In reality I just started shutting
           | things off and only turn them on when I need them.
           | 
           | I'm curious as to what others are doing to save costs if
           | anything. I love the hobby but we're in a recession, lol!
        
             | CTDOCodebases wrote:
             | If you don't require ECC RAM a common setup these days is a
             | Proxmox cluster set up on refurbished USFF PCs like the
             | Lenovo m720. They sip power at idle.
             | 
             | My personal approach is separate archived storage from
             | working storage and keep archive storage offline until I
             | need it. Keeping hard drives spinning is costly.
        
             | getwiththeprog wrote:
             | MiniITX boards are low idle power, 17 watts for idle with a
             | Ryzen 5600 compared to a full size boards 50 watts. I would
             | no longer buy anything larger, even for a gaming machine.
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | I really wish more Mini-ITX boards came out that allowed
               | GPUs to be horizontal so it could fit in a 2U case.
               | Unfortunately making it vertical makes it 4U, negating
               | the size advantages of Mini-ITX.
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | So I actually "repurposed" a riser cable from an old ITX
               | build to slap it into my primary proxmox server to play
               | around with home-rolled VDI. Surprisingly, it worked. If
               | you're feeling bold you could try that route
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | Amen on that. The past few rigs I built for myself were
               | all ITX machines. I went through and undervolted my CPU,
               | RAM, and GPU. Once my current gaming rig dies I'm just
               | going to stick with the consoles for gaming until they
               | goes to shit as well.
               | 
               | In an era of abundance we seem to be trying to use more
               | power to support what we already do, rather than
               | rethinking what we do to use less power. It's a shame!
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | Honestly I could I could easily solar power all of my
               | compute needs (and probably a lot more) from my
               | apartment's roof.
               | 
               | But at last, I'm a renter and my property management
               | isn't going to allow that.
               | 
               | We're literally wasting clean energy because of a bunch
               | of rich turds hogging real estate with shitty rules about
               | what you can't do. When my property changed management
               | the new management even _banned_ EV charging on the
               | property and locked up all the outlets in the parking
               | lot. These kind of management are not welcome in Silicon
               | Valley but somehow they are here.
        
               | hqsolomo wrote:
               | It jumbles my jimmies hearing about outright rejection of
               | modern tech by industries that would best benefit from
               | said tech.
               | 
               | I'd almost be willing to bet money that your landlord
               | would charge a "renewable energy" fee even if they're
               | just dumping power back to the grid for $$$ even if they
               | had the panels
        
         | monstermunch wrote:
         | I have 17kw of solar, so usually very close to $0 or below!
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | Holy smokes, living the dream! Kudos!
        
         | momirlan wrote:
         | energy bill might go up, but the heating bill goes down ...
        
           | hqsolomo wrote:
           | "Chestnuts roasting on an open server rack"
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | Great for the arctic circle.
        
           | monstermunch wrote:
           | We don't do heating here in Houston. Maybe for the 2 days of
           | Winter
        
             | ihattendorf wrote:
             | > Maybe for the 2 days of Winter
             | 
             | That's what the generator is for.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-08-11 23:02 UTC)