[HN Gopher] Magic Earth: OSM based map and routing with crowd so...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Magic Earth: OSM based map and routing with crowd sourced traffic
       data
        
       Author : executesorder66
       Score  : 181 points
       Date   : 2023-08-08 11:21 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.magicearth.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.magicearth.com)
        
       | ohadron wrote:
       | This is how Waze started.
        
       | reboot81 wrote:
       | So I can go places, without the oogling.
        
       | dghughes wrote:
       | Isn't this basically the Traffic part of Google maps? Google Maps
       | > Layers > Traffic (enable)
        
         | pbmonster wrote:
         | Well, yes. But not from google or from apple (which also has
         | live traffic), but instead on top of OSM.
        
       | atbpaca wrote:
       | Seems like not available to download in the US (for iOS).
        
         | xorl wrote:
         | Same issue.
        
       | leokeba wrote:
       | If the developers are around, I would like to ask a simple
       | question : Does this app only use realtime data for calculating
       | ETA and routes, or does it learn some statistical regularities in
       | the traffic patterns to make predictions ?
       | 
       | I'm asking because this is the main weakness of all similar apps
       | that I know of, they always give you an estimation using only the
       | current state of traffic on the whole journey, so if you are
       | going towards a busy city at peak traffic time it may add one or
       | two hours to the ETA even if you are still 5 hours away and
       | everything will be gone by the time you get there. Obviously the
       | reverse situation is even more annoying, I live in the Paris
       | area, and when I leave home around 4pm and ask google maps an
       | itinerary, it may tell me I'm only 30 minutes away, but 15
       | minutes later shit hits the fan and I end up an hour late on my
       | schedule.
       | 
       | Obviously after a while you start learning the traffic patterns
       | and plan accordingly, which is okay I guess, but we're in 2023,
       | how can google not be up to the task of correctly predicting a
       | traffic spike when it's regular on a daily or weekly basis ? Is
       | that just too much data / compute for them ? If anybody has a
       | clue, I'm curious.
        
         | PcChip wrote:
         | I thought the "arrive at" feature of Google maps took into
         | account usual traffic patterns at that time of day?
        
           | leokeba wrote:
           | Well that's also what I used to believe, kinda makes sense.
           | But drawing from my own anecdotal experience I had to
           | conclude that's not the case. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's just
           | VERY bad at it, or it doesn't work where I live.
        
             | matsemann wrote:
             | Gmaps give me a different estimated time if I ask for a
             | route tomorrow afternoon ("normally 35-45 minutes") or
             | tomorrow evening ("26 minutes").
        
             | beardyw wrote:
             | Well you can set a departure time and it gives "Typically
             | ..." so it must have some information like that. And their
             | Waze gives a graph of journey times by time of departure.
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | In theory.
           | 
           | However it appears to underestimate traffic delays for
           | DC->OBX beach traffic. On a summer Saturday morning, that's a
           | 6-7 hour drive. Or worse. Apple Maps has it closer to 5-5:30
           | for most of the day. Google gives a range from 4:45-6:30 -
           | 4:45 is basically impossible any time of day and year but
           | 6:30 is ballpark-ish if you don't hit a major traffic jam.
           | 
           | But maybe that's a worst-case route.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | Here We Go is frighteningly accurate for SF bay area
             | traffic predictions. (E.g., within 2 minutes, driving
             | between south bay and north San Francisco, with traffic).
             | It must be using statistical models to predict future
             | traffic.
             | 
             | It is often pre-loaded on European car console units so you
             | may be using it without realizing it. It's free for iOS and
             | Android, and works offline (offline support is the killer
             | feature for me).
        
               | eredengrin wrote:
               | How long have you used Here WeGo? It used to be my
               | primary maps application but a couple years back they
               | updated it and broke everything (offline address search
               | stopped working, no route choices anymore, I think they
               | removed the TTS options which made the voice directions
               | much harder to follow, etc).
               | 
               | The reviews for the app tanked after that disaster and
               | practically all of them mentioned the update as the pain
               | point, do you know if they ever recovered a semblance of
               | what it used to be? Maybe I'll have to check it out
               | again, I've been using Magic Earth ever since then and
               | it's pretty solid but there are a few minor things I
               | still miss.
        
       | hexmiles wrote:
       | Off-topic question from non-native English speaker, on the
       | website is present this phrase; "We agree that the worst person
       | to be stuck in traffic, is you.", I instinctively read it as them
       | calling me the worst person, which is clearly not the case, and I
       | understand what they mean, but I still feel like this phrasing is
       | off...
        
         | mminer237 wrote:
         | The biggest problem is that random comma.
        
         | dave881 wrote:
         | As a native speaker, this is awkward phrasing.
        
         | hardlianotion wrote:
         | It is correct, but phrased to be surprising.
        
         | mnky9800n wrote:
         | I suppose it is supposed to be tongue in cheek but as a native
         | english speaker i also find it awkward even though it might be
         | correct.
        
         | foundart wrote:
         | If the intent was to communicate a pause, I think an ellipsis
         | would be the way to go.
         | 
         | "We agree that the worst person to be stuck in traffic ... is
         | you."
         | 
         | One source for this is item 7 at https://www.merriam-
         | webster.com/grammar/ellipses-definition-...
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | One would argue that there is no such thing as being stuck in
         | traffic. You are the traffic and thus part of the problem. So
         | it is not that badly phrased. ;-)
        
         | dtgriscom wrote:
         | Not a fan of that comma, but it's probably there to make the
         | best of an awkward sentence structure.
        
       | admaiora wrote:
       | A product using free and open-source data generated by the OSM
       | community plus crowd sourcing traffic and keeping the code
       | proprietary does not sit well with me. You can have a paid
       | product but open source the project.
        
         | ho_schi wrote:
         | Describes Komoot and "social" media.
         | 
         | I recommend Brouter instead of Komoot: https://bikerouter.de/
         | 
         | Best thing. Your planned route isn't stored there, it is your
         | actual link to the website. Incredible simple and reusable.
        
           | jeffreygoesto wrote:
           | Using BRouter together with OsmAnd for convertible (small
           | roads) and bike (i.e. gravel paths) trips. Works like a charm
           | and completely offline.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | While I'd prefer something completely community-driven and open
         | source, the fact that this app is on the OSM wiki suggests the
         | project is generally OK with it.
         | 
         | I was just wishing for a Waze alternative last night, and here
         | it is. It's proprietary and commercial, but it's not from FAANG
         | or a company subject to the Chinese or Russian governments.
         | I'll take that as an improvement.
         | 
         | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Magic_Earth
        
           | pietervdvn wrote:
           | Being on the wiki does not necessarily indicate "official
           | endorsement". However, as long as the app holds onto the
           | official copyright guidelines (see
           | https://openstreetmap.org/copyright - more or less equivalent
           | to CC-BY-SA), a closed source,commercial app is perfectly
           | fine.
        
         | OfSanguineFire wrote:
         | > A product using free and open-source data generated by the
         | OSM community plus crowd sourcing traffic and keeping the code
         | proprietary does not sit well with me.
         | 
         | This is already common. For example, Komoot which is now big in
         | the bicycle-travel world, uses OSM data but keeps its code
         | proprietary and even locks community-generated content down.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | Is there a just-as-good FOSS alternative? Or at least one that
         | could catch up if it receives more support?
        
         | friend_and_foe wrote:
         | It doesn't sit well with anyone familiar with OSM. This doesn't
         | really have a good market fit; people who don't care about
         | these things just use google, anyone that would use this won't
         | use proprietary software, and especially anyone that uses OSM
         | exclusively such as myself.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | The problem with crowdsourcing data is that you need a crowd,
           | the bigger the better.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | > It doesn't sit well with anyone familiar with OSM.
           | 
           | Please speak for yourself :) OSM contributor here: I'm
           | already happy if there's a great mapping product that uses
           | open geo data, might not use it myself if it's closed source
           | but it's better than google keeping everything to itself or
           | behind a paywall. I understand it costs them money to keep
           | their map up to date, but they could also collaborate with
           | the rest of us and have free geo data for all. Apple taking
           | OSM data for their devices, for example, is to me exciting
           | rather than "not sitting well". I'd be ten times as thrilled
           | if they'd open source it, don't get me wrong, but still
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | I think this would have been true in the past, but it may be
           | changing. Google are fast degrading their maps UX as part of
           | their maps monetisation efforts, to the point that backlash
           | has even reached normal users. I was listening to a very
           | mainstream commute-time FM radio talkshow yesterday that
           | brought up Google Maps' UX degradation - that's an extremely
           | non-tech audience. I can see a new space growing in the
           | market for people wanting a Google alternative for reasons
           | entirely removed from ethics.
           | 
           | In addition to all of the above, Maps.me has had a pretty
           | ample userbase for a long time now - while it is technically
           | an open-source codebase (to the extent its even been forked &
           | put on FDroid), its privacy policy & general Russian links of
           | the company behind it still leave a lot of red flags for your
           | typical OSM users.
        
             | ho_schi wrote:
             | May check Organic Maps? A fork.
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | It's not really a matter of "Russian links". Maps.me was
             | sold from its original founders to a payment-processing
             | company that hasn't been developing the app further. That
             | was the reason for the fork of its open-source codebase as
             | Organic Maps, which is very actively developed.
        
               | amne wrote:
               | "to a payment processing company". Ok. Now it makes
               | sense. I just launched maps.me on my phone for the first
               | time in more than 2 years I think and I was wondering why
               | it's asking me to log in and also inviting me to use the
               | Maps Wallet? What? A wallet? In a maps app? Haven't
               | uninstalled an app faster in my life.
        
               | matkoniecz wrote:
               | Also, Organic Maps is run by (some subset of?) original
               | founders.
               | 
               | Interesting case of why developers may prefer open
               | source: company was sold, but code was open to legal
               | reuse under a new brand.
        
               | tuukkah wrote:
               | Users may prefer for the same reason.
        
               | verve_rat wrote:
               | Surely a non-compete was involved?
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | Depends on the region you're in but non-competes vary
               | wildly in enforceability. They mainly survive on the
               | threat of incurring costs of a legal fight rather than
               | likelihood of actual follow through enforcement.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | It's had 3 separate forks over the years: I was mainly
               | basing my comment on the 2 predating the sale as I
               | haven't actually tried Organic Maps (yet) - good to hear
               | its actively developed. I had given up on the other two
               | due to various challenges with the tile hosting. Must
               | give this one a try.
        
           | Accacin wrote:
           | I run GrapheneOS, and have Magic Earth installed for car
           | navigation.
           | 
           | The reason for that is it's search actually works, it
           | displays live traffic info, and they have a simple easy-to-
           | read privacy policy: https://www.magicearth.com/privacy/
           | 
           | Would it be better open source? Yeah, for sure. However, as
           | far as I can tell, they abide by all the licencing terms for
           | OSM, etc.
        
             | joshvm wrote:
             | I find OsmAnd to be OK in a pinch. I use it a lot abroad
             | with full offline maps (the fee is less than $10 a year,
             | bargain). You're right that search is bad. Often an exact
             | search for a POI doesn't work, and it only shows the
             | "increase radius" option. Generally search is very viewport
             | dependent, which makes sense because there isn't a massive
             | caching/index server managing geo requests. But, for "where
             | am I" when Google refuses to cache anything, it's
             | invaluable and there are nice plugins for tracking/logging
             | trips.
             | 
             | I was in remote NZ without reception and we used it for
             | navigation/routing. It wasn't the most efficient and Google
             | disagreed when we finally got signal back, but it got us to
             | where we wanted to be and the map was up to date enough.
        
             | gspencley wrote:
             | I also run GrapheneOS. Did you have to install Google Play
             | to be able to install and use Magic Earth?
             | 
             | I'm trying to keep my phone as de-Google'd as possible.
             | 
             | That said, the one thing I miss from proprietary Android
             | land is Google Maps so I am very interested in a comparable
             | alternative. I'm trying Organic Maps at the moment, and had
             | played with OsmAnd~ but found it lacking when I tried to
             | use it for real-time navigation while driving.
        
               | morserer wrote:
               | F-Droid - Aurora Store for all your Play Store needs. No
               | login needed.
        
               | gspencley wrote:
               | Thanks!
               | 
               | Do you get many apps that complain about not having
               | Google Play Services installed? Just had one (not Magic
               | Earth). Seems to work fine after I hit "OK" to dismiss
               | its message. I'm assuming it only requires it for auto
               | installing updates.
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | I do but ordinarily for services that are not anonymous
               | in the first place. Banking, ride-sharing, so on.
        
               | womod wrote:
               | Google Play Services implements a lot of increasingly
               | vital features and interfaces on Android. Not having it
               | kills a good number of things people consider important,
               | like push notifications (some apps are designed to still
               | send push notifications like Signal, but it's kind of a
               | hack and does drain the battery). If you're looking for
               | almost the same functionality without google play
               | services, MicroG[1] is an open source implementation of
               | Google Play Services and its' associated components. I
               | don't think it works on GrapheneOS unfortunately, but
               | GrapheneOS already sandboxes all the Google Play Services
               | components, so you should be fine as is. "Normal"/stock
               | Android roms aren't set up the same way however, so you
               | pretty much need either Google Play Services or MicroG
               | for push notifications, location services, etc.
               | 
               | [1] - https://microg.org/
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | Here is a crazy fact... Google Maps doesn't require Play
               | Services to be installed. About once a week it will popup
               | a message about no services installed, but it still
               | functions (other than logging in).
        
               | the_third_wave wrote:
               | In my experience this goes for most - for me actually
               | 'all' but I don't tend to use much from the Play store -
               | apps which insist on having _Google Play services_
               | installed. They blatantly tell you to  'Enable Google
               | Play services' because (e.g.) _BankID won 't work unless
               | you enable Google Play services_. Just click outside of
               | the dialogue to make it disappear and use (e.g.) BankID
               | as normal, it just works as it should.
        
           | mmaia wrote:
           | > This doesn't really have a good market fit; people who
           | don't care about these things just use google
           | 
           | Counterexample: Mapbox [1]
           | 
           | 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapbox
        
             | notpushkin wrote:
             | Which used to be mostly open source until 2020.
        
           | KoftaBob wrote:
           | Yet surprisingly, the majority of the iOS apps that OSM
           | themselves list on their wiki are closed source:
           | 
           | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iOS_applic.
           | ..
        
           | GoldenRacer wrote:
           | I use it. It works substantially better than other OSM based
           | map apps imo. My big use case for it is I frequently travel
           | places without cell service and like having a mapping app
           | where I can download whole regions worth of maps to use
           | offline.
        
             | PinguTS wrote:
             | Google Maps can download whole regions of maps to use
             | offline.
        
             | friend_and_foe wrote:
             | I use osmand and have all my maps saved locally.
        
             | smcleod wrote:
             | Apple Maps lets you download maps offline, also check out
             | Organic Maps which uses OSM -
             | https://apps.apple.com/au/app/organic-maps-offline-hike-
             | bike...
        
               | PinguTS wrote:
               | Apple Maps lets you download maps offline? How?
        
               | aeontech wrote:
               | It's a new thing in iOS 17 -
               | https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/07/ios-17-offline-maps-in-
               | apple-...
        
               | smcleod wrote:
               | Oh maybe it's iOS 17 only? I've got the option there in
               | maps to download any area offline and have the city I'm
               | in downloaded.
        
         | foooorsyth wrote:
         | They're not violating the OSM data license. Why would it "not
         | sit well" with you that they keep their client closed source
         | and try to earn a real living?
         | 
         | >you can have a paid product but open source the project
         | 
         | And you'll instantly create 10 competitors overnight. If you
         | use the GPL, those competitors will just be Chinese or from
         | some non-western jurisdiction that doesn't care about GPL
         | enforcement.
         | 
         | Man, rms followers are annoying. Stop trying to GPL the entire
         | internet. Magic Earth is a great tool. A big part of why it's
         | great is probably because its authors were motivated by profit.
        
           | dspillett wrote:
           | While your main point, that in this case no license or other
           | agreement is being broken and there is no evidence to suggest
           | that the OSM project is unhappy with the situation...
           | 
           |  _> If you use the GPL, those competitors will just be
           | Chinese or from some non-western jurisdiction that doesn't
           | care about GPL enforcement._
           | 
           | This is true - some in China will use GPL code and not stick
           | to the license and that may be a competitive advantage over
           | companies that do play ball1. _But_ other people ignoring the
           | license should not be considered a reason for anyone else not
           | to, and that shouldn 't stop people choosing the GPL if that
           | is what they want for their software.
           | 
           |  _> Man, rms followers are annoying. Stop trying to GPL the
           | entire internet._
           | 
           | Man, anti-GPL people are annoying. Stop trying to have
           | someone else's cake and eat it. :)
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | [1] Onyx and their Boox range2 being one example, last I
           | heard the company was trying to play the race card and make
           | it an anti-China-sentiment issue instead of a blatantly-
           | disregarding-a-license-agreement matter.
           | 
           | [2] Not the only issue that puts me off those devices,
           | apparently hidden call home code is present and always active
           | on at least some of them.
        
             | foooorsyth wrote:
             | I'm not anti-GPL. I'm anti-FSF-fanatics-applying-GPL-dogma-
             | to-non-GPL-projects. OSM doesn't use the GPL or a GPL-like
             | license for their data.
        
         | OGWhales wrote:
         | An open-source alternative is Organic Maps:
         | https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | Does it have live traffic information? It looks quite
           | polished but for an offline feature set OsmAnd~ has a lot
           | more and is more established. OsmAnd does not (to my
           | knowledge) have any live traffic info.
        
             | JeremyNT wrote:
             | Compared to OsmAnd, Organic Maps is quite basic.
             | 
             | The advantage is that it does have a very streamlined UI,
             | so if you just want to get to a map and navigate it's far
             | more straightforward. You really need to spend some time to
             | understand the "quirks" of how to use OsmAnd (a downside of
             | its long feature list).
        
             | benoliver999 wrote:
             | No
        
             | hk__2 wrote:
             | > It looks quite polished but for an offline feature set
             | OsmAnd~ has a lot more and is more established
             | 
             | OrganicMaps is a fork of Maps.me, which is very well known
             | among the general public: 55k ratings on the Apple Store
             | and 50M downloads on the Play Store for Maps.me vs. 1.8k
             | and 10M for OsmAnd.
             | 
             | Unfortunately a lot of people who use Maps.me/OrganicMaps
             | don't know that maps come from OSM, whereas with OsmAnd
             | it's clear right from the name.
        
               | matkoniecz wrote:
               | > Unfortunately a lot of people who use
               | Maps.me/OrganicMaps don't know that maps come from OSM
               | 
               | OM has quite clear attribution, as required by ODBL
               | license of OpenStreetMap data.
        
               | kzrdude wrote:
               | OsmAnd feels like an app for a map nerd, and I like it.
        
             | OGWhales wrote:
             | Unfortunately it does not have live traffic data like the
             | app it is forked from, maps.me.
             | 
             | Hopefully they add it, but there aren't many good open
             | traffic projects that exist, so they'd need to rely on
             | crowd sourced data like Magic Earth is doing and I'm not
             | sure how well that would work.
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | > Receiving objects: 100% (556180/556180), 5.88 GiB | 3.33
           | MiB/s, done.
           | 
           | What the holy hell is going on with that repo? do they `git
           | add local.osm.dump` or something? I mean, I was kidding but
           | evidently not that crazy far off: https://github.com/organicm
           | aps/organicmaps/blob/master/data/...
           | 
           | I was expecting to find `git add release/organicmaps-1.0.apk`
           | which is a super common "I've never used git before"
           | antipattern
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | since I already paid the price, some `git archive HEAD | tar
           | -tvf - | sort -k3 -n` coughed up                   -rw-rw-r--
           | root/root   1854526 2023-08-07 05:45
           | android/src/fdroid/play/listings/en-US/graphics/phone-
           | screenshots/1.jpg         -rw-rw-r-- root/root   1863096
           | 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_e
           | s3/openglessl/libMali-T600_r11p0-00rel0.so         -rw-rw-r--
           | root/root   2583640 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/l
           | inux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-T600_r12p0-00rel0.s
           | o         -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3017640 2023-08-07 05:45 too
           | ls/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMal
           | i-T600_r13p0-00rel0.so         -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3155104
           | 2023-08-07 05:45 data/06_code2000.ttf         -rw-rw-r--
           | root/root   3451900 2023-08-07 05:45 data/02_droidsans-
           | fallback.ttf         -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3676527
           | 2023-08-07 05:45 data/packed_polygons.bin         -rw-rw-r--
           | root/root   4696613 2023-08-07 05:45
           | software_renderer/default_font.cpp         -rwxrwxr-x
           | root/root   6131664 2023-08-07 05:45
           | tools/shaders_compiler/linux/glslangValidator
           | -rwxrwxr-x root/root   6498904 2023-08-07 05:45
           | tools/shaders_compiler/macos/glslangValidator         -rw-
           | rw-r-- root/root   7315682 2023-08-07 05:45
           | 3party/opening_hours/opening_hours_integration_tests/opening-
           | count.lst         -rw-rw-r-- root/root   8384030 2023-08-07
           | 05:45 data/kml_test_data/test.kmz         -rw-rw-r--
           | root/root   8757104 2023-08-07 05:45 data/WorldCoasts.mwm
           | -rw-rw-r-- root/root 20,461,104 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shader
           | s_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-
           | Gxx_r3p0-00rel0.so         -rw-rw-r-- root/root 43,812,962
           | 2023-08-07 05:45 data/World.mwm         -rw-rw-r-- root/root
           | 50,994,390 2023-08-07 05:45 data/dictionary.slf
           | 
           | and then, as I feared                   $ git log
           | --format='%cs %s' -- data/World.mwm         2023-07-13
           | [planet] New data from 230710.         2023-06-05 [planet]
           | New data from 230602.         2023-05-08 [planet] New data
           | from 230503.         2023-04-02 [planet] New data from
           | 230329.         2023-03-01 [planet] New data from 230227.
           | 2023-02-13 [planet] New data from 230210.         2023-01-24
           | [planet] New data from 230121.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | executesorder66 wrote:
           | I tend to agree with admaiora. And Organic Maps is a cool
           | project. However I shared this post because it's the first
           | OSM based map/routing project I've seen that actually has
           | traffic data. I thought that was interesting. It is
           | disappointing that the traffic info isn't open as well.
        
           | striking wrote:
           | I ended up in the winding mountain roads near Saratoga
           | without cell service, and though I had SF downloaded on
           | Google Maps, I hadn't added the rest of the Bay. We decided
           | we wanted to change our destination and realized we wouldn't
           | have any further navigation only after canceling our current
           | trip.
           | 
           | But then I remembered I had Organic Maps tucked away, ready
           | to go, with a highly detailed map of California for offline
           | navigation use.
           | 
           | Big thanks to Organic Maps for making me seem prepared and
           | allowing me to recover gracefully from what could otherwise
           | have been a somewhat annoying situation.
        
             | wildzzz wrote:
             | I had the same thing happen to me once while driving in
             | very rural West Virginia on some mountain highway. Google
             | Maps crashed or something and cleared out my route. This
             | place was so desolate that I was concerned I wasn't going
             | to find any gas station nearby to even ask for directions.
             | I had just enough EDGE cell service to make a phone call
             | but couldn't get any app to download data. I called up my
             | friend, gave her my GPS position from a GPS Status app I
             | had recently installed (Google maps wasn't giving me a lat
             | and long), and wrote down the route. I downloaded a map
             | covering the entire route home when I got to my destination
             | and have been doing that ever since for long drives.
             | 
             | I almost miss the days of printing out MapQuest directions
        
               | seanw444 wrote:
               | I just have the entire US downloaded on OsmAnd+ now. I
               | feel so much more relaxed knowing that I've got
               | directions pretty much anywhere, always.
        
             | Zak wrote:
             | I always keep Organic Maps in reserve. Waze and Google Maps
             | provide better navigation when they're working, but I've
             | had them fail in places lacking mobile data even when I had
             | offline maps downloaded to Google Maps.
             | 
             | I've never seen Organic Maps fail.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | Here We Go's (previously, Nokia Maps) offline support is
               | as good as Organic Maps, and the routing is as good as
               | Google/Apple. It runs on iOS and Android. CarPlay support
               | is good. Haven't tried android's car ui.
               | 
               | I use it on my iPhone, but I'm rooting for OSM, long
               | term.
               | 
               | I'd happily pay a bit to a company that put the money
               | towards an open source, privacy preserving OSM app, and
               | towards improving the upstream map data.
        
               | richiebful1 wrote:
               | How is address lookup? That's the only bad thing about
               | OSM based apps vs Google Maps in my region (rural
               | Kentucky)
        
               | troyvit wrote:
               | It worked well when I used it. It was bought by Microsoft
               | and is suffering the usual degradation that comes with
               | that, but it's still a good app.
        
         | Accacin wrote:
         | Odd, because in reality they can do whatever the OSM licence
         | allows.
         | 
         | I still find it very odd that people have problems with
         | projects using open source projects as the licence allows.
        
           | StockHuman wrote:
           | The displeasure is the the same as that from "not returning
           | the shopping cart;" it isn't illegal to do so and no one will
           | punish you, but the community as a whole is collectively
           | taken advantage of when you do so.
        
             | foooorsyth wrote:
             | Terrible analogy. Returning the shopping cart is expected
             | behavior of user as expressed by the grocery store.
             | Expected user behavior as expressed by OSM is that you can
             | use the data as you please, even for profit, and if you
             | alter the data, you need to share that data back. That's
             | it. YOUR desired behavior for users of OSM's data (open
             | sourcing any app that uses it) really has no bearing. You
             | aren't the licensor and you have no say. Why do you feel as
             | though you should get to impose your dogma on OSM's data
             | product?
        
         | mark_undoio wrote:
         | I think the key thing with OSM is that the data is open.
         | 
         | It would be nice if this app had more open code and it's nice
         | if people contribute back to the data set too.
         | 
         | But the database is the open source artifact here, not the
         | software - as long as they're respecting that then it feels ok,
         | even if more would be desirable.
        
       | doodlebugging wrote:
       | Thanks for the link to this app. I had not heard of this one and
       | normally don't use navigation apps because I don't like
       | distractions while I'm driving. I do run into situations where it
       | would be great to have current traffic information so that I can
       | avoid getting caught up in someone else's malfunction though. I
       | usually ask a passenger to check traffic if it looks dicey down
       | the road or just wing it if I'm driving alone.
       | 
       | I read through each of the pages and found the website to be easy
       | to navigate and found descriptions of features to be pretty good.
       | I did find a couple things on one page that I think could be
       | clarified. Both are on the "AI Dashcam" page.
       | 
       | The text in one of the subheadings should be changed since there
       | is a pretty common grammar error in one sentence.
       | 
       | Under the subheading "Forward Collision Warning" where the
       | sentence reads - "When a vehicle that is driving in front of you
       | breaks abruptly, a quick response may be required."
       | 
       | Change "breaks" to "brakes" and I think it makes more sense.
       | English homonyms got you there. It's very common to see breaks
       | used when the writer means brakes.
       | 
       | The other thing on this page is just something that reads funny
       | to me.
       | 
       | Under the subheading "Advanced Driver Assistance notifications on
       | Apple Watch." there is a sentence that really puts the whole app
       | situation in context.
       | 
       | The second sentence is great - "First, install Magic Earth for
       | Apple Watch and add a Magic Earth complication to your Watch
       | face. "
       | 
       | I wonder whether "complication" should have been "application" or
       | whether the developers actually see this app on an Apple Watch as
       | a complication like I do.
       | 
       | Pretty funny stuff.
       | 
       | I sent a link to one of my kids who is currently traveling to see
       | what they say about it. They are in the US and from other
       | comments the app may not be available here on iOS today but they
       | will check it out when it is available.
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | > homonyms
         | 
         | homophones
        
           | doodlebugging wrote:
           | Got me! Thanks for that correction. Too late to revise the
           | post though.
        
         | heystefan wrote:
         | Complication is not a typo here btw.
         | 
         | "A complication is an element on the watch face that displays
         | information or allows you quick access to an app by tapping on
         | it."
        
           | doodlebugging wrote:
           | Thank you. I obviously did not know that but it makes sense
           | and certainly fits.
        
             | ddalex wrote:
             | To be more specific, in traditional watch making, a
             | complication is the display of a calculation - the
             | traditional clock is a complication, the date display is
             | another complication, a chronometer is another
             | complication, the displayed phase of moon is another
             | complication, an additional time indicator for a different
             | zone is another complication, etc...
        
               | doodlebugging wrote:
               | That makes perfect sense now. Each additional feature
               | complicates the original design and adds to the
               | complexity of the finished product. Each complication
               | requires a level higher skill set for the maker. I had
               | never dug into watch or clock making but I see how the
               | term fits the situation for this app.
        
       | fredsmith219 wrote:
       | Not available on the iOS app store in the US, according to my
       | iphone..
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | Does Magic Earth contribute data upstream to OSM in any way? Like
       | making it easy for users to report issue?
        
       | filleokus wrote:
       | I wonder how many users you need in a given metro area to get
       | resonable accuracy? Probably not that many, but seems like a
       | tricky problem to boot strap.
       | 
       | Is the point to be an non-google alternative to Google Maps on
       | Android? (On iOS as well of course, but there I guess you have
       | almost no option but to trust Apple, and can use Apple Maps).
       | 
       | Little bit weird that the App Store listing says they are not
       | collecting any data when they have this crowd sourcing of data?
       | 
       | Is this the same General Magic as the one publishing the app?
       | https://www.generalmagic.io
       | 
       | EDIT: Probably not the same: This seems to be the company behind
       | it https://www.magiclane.com/web/about/ if you sleuth round a
       | bit. Then the pricing model of free makes more sense at least.
       | 
       | EDIT2: Or maybe not at all, the street addresses don't match up.
       | Enough playing internet detective for this coffee break, back to
       | work.
        
         | NGRhodes wrote:
         | You are right, on the about page:
         | 
         | >Team > >We are a team of 46 - young yet experienced. The
         | founders of Magic Lane also build the very first route planner
         | which ran on the Mac and PC in the 1990, formerly known as
         | Route 66. Route 66 was also the first to release navigation
         | solutions for Nokia, Samsung and HTC mobile phones. With over
         | 30 years of experience in the Maps, Location & Navigation
         | industry, the founders decided a few years ago to rebuild the
         | entire software from scratch. The aim was to do this without
         | compromise, with privacy and three other basic principles in
         | mind: the platform must operate on minimal hardware, be fully
         | functional offline, and be easy to integrate. The development
         | project was carried out under the name General Magic, with the
         | navigation app Magic Earth as a testing ground for Android and
         | iOS
        
       | V__ wrote:
       | No one likes to sit in traffic, but I do wonder if such tools
       | don't create too many additional problems, by increased traffic
       | on minor roads [1]. Suddenly small roads, have heavy traffic,
       | because it's 1-2min faster. Leading to more road wear,
       | circumventing road hierarchy etc.
       | 
       | [1] https://citymonitor.ai/community/neighbourhoods/google-
       | maps-...
        
         | rompic wrote:
         | two things come to my mind: - use a capacity / slot based model
         | to avoid heavy traffic on small roads - work together with
         | cities / police etc. to define traffic strategies especially
         | for events.
         | 
         | that's what we do at graphmasters with NUNAV:
         | https://www.nunav.net/trafficStrategies
        
       | munhitsu wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | oh_sigh wrote:
       | It's strange that they're making a default feature in Google maps
       | for like 10 years seem like a magical idea they just invented.
        
         | stevehawk wrote:
         | That's the cycle of software. Remember when Google Maps was
         | about the mapping and finding places? Now it's about reviews,
         | photos, online ordering, the menu, price point, and everything
         | else. Less feature filled apps will now move in to replace the
         | void they left. Rinse repeat. (see: every note taking / todo
         | app ever)
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | Not available in Canadian app store either.
        
       | rompic wrote:
       | Shameless, but related, plug for NUNAV (I work for the company
       | behind it, but not on this product): If you are located in Europe
       | you might like to try NUNAV Navigation as well, which uses a
       | collaborative routing based approach to distribute traffic.
       | 
       | iphone: https://apps.apple.com/de/app/nunav-
       | navigation/id1193133974?...
       | 
       | android:
       | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nunav.play
        
         | rsolva wrote:
         | Hey, this looks great! The only thing I miss is an option to
         | add multiple destinations or search for gas stations, shops etc
         | on an ongoing route.
        
           | rompic wrote:
           | It's on a very long list. Afaik it does exist on ios, but
           | via-routing has low usage so it's not a high priority atm.
        
         | btzs wrote:
         | Is NUNAV based on OSM data?
        
           | rompic wrote:
           | yes. we are also (of course) a quite active contributor: see
           | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Graphmasters
        
         | exikyut wrote:
         | Mild expression of curiosity, since I'm not sure if this'll be
         | useful for me (I'm in AU): this is listed as "requires Android
         | 6+", yet shows "Does not work on your device" for every single
         | device listed, including my main phone which definitely isn't
         | _that_ old. But it 's not showing "not available in your
         | country".
        
           | rompic wrote:
           | thanks for the feedback. I'll check with the developers.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | the_third_wave wrote:
       | Somewhat off-topic but why oh why do nearly all app developers
       | who have things on both Android as well as iOS insist on using an
       | iPhone to show their app and also insist on saying the app is
       | available 'on iOS and Android' instead of ordering these
       | alphabetically? Does Apple give some incentive to do so or some
       | punishment if it is done the other way around? This is a free app
       | on both Android as well as iOS, it targets those who know what
       | OSM is and as such feels like more of a fit for those running
       | AOSP-derived distributions than closed-source walled-garden iOS
       | yet still they advertise Apple-first. I realise that Apple is
       | bigger than Android in the USA but the world is so much bigger
       | than the USA and Android is so much bigger than Apple in most
       | other locations. Android devices also offer more opportunities to
       | show off the product with their bigger screens and less prominent
       | or absent notches, so much so that seeing the Android version
       | next to the iOS one - they show one Android device on the bottom
       | of the screen, hidden behind an iPhone - makes the iOS version
       | seem rather cramped and cluttered.
       | 
       | I can understand this when they're specifically advertising to
       | the paying iOS crowd but it just seems out of place elsewhere.
        
       | jasonlfunk wrote:
       | My iphone is telling me that it's not available in my region
       | (USA).
        
         | OGWhales wrote:
         | I emailed them last week to ask about that and they said it's
         | currently only available in Europe, but they'd hope to have it
         | released in the Americas this week if all goes well. This is on
         | iOS.
        
           | KoftaBob wrote:
           | Did they say why it's not available in the US? I installed it
           | a year or so ago before it was removed from the US app store,
           | which is why I still have it on my phone.
        
         | richiebful1 wrote:
         | That's strange. It works well on Android in the USA
        
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