[HN Gopher] True shape of lithium revealed for the first time
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True shape of lithium revealed for the first time
Author : wglb
Score : 95 points
Date : 2023-08-07 20:03 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| The researchers are looking into "leveraging Li rhombic
| dodecahedra as nucleation seeds, enabling the subsequent growth
| of dense Li that improves battery performance compared with a
| baseline" [1]. Does that means being able to run a more-
| conventional manufacturing process once you have the seeds?
|
| [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06235-w
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Possibly, I was looking at it thinking they were going for
| seeding the re-crystallization process during recharging in
| order to avoid dendrites and maintain cell energy density. I
| find it is often hard to deduce _exactly_ where they are
| thinking of applying this due to the incredible competition
| around patenting and rechargeable battery ideas. (electrolytes,
| electrode configurations, etc). I 've gotten to the point where
| I search patent applications with the lead authors names in
| them to get better clarity on why the author thinks they have
| made a breakthrough :-)
| willprice89 wrote:
| > "Now that we know the shape of lithium, the question is, Can we
| tune it so that it forms cubes, which can be packed in densely to
| increase both the safety and performance of batteries?"
|
| Is the idea that they would stack the dodecahedrons into an
| approximate cube shape, or can they tweak the synthesis so that
| lithium cubes are deposited directly?
| rtkwe wrote:
| The latter. Though you can pack rhombic dodecahedrons with 100%
| efficiency I doubt you could get them to grow that way at an
| industrial scale.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombic_dodecahedral_honeycomb
| pishpash wrote:
| "It was surprising for us to discover that when we prevented
| surface corrosion, instead of these ill-defined shapes, we saw a
| singular polyhedron that _matches theoretical predictions_ based
| on the metal 's crystal structure."
|
| Why is it surprising that it matches theoretical predictions? So
| people knew the true shape of lithium in the first place.
| cubefox wrote:
| Next: The Shape of Water
| timerol wrote:
| > But the UCLA investigators developed a technique that prevents
| that corrosion and showed that, in its absence, lithium atoms
| assemble into a surprising shape--the rhombic dodecahedron, a
| 12-sided figure similar to the dice used in role-playing games
| like Dungeons and Dragons.
|
| I've never seen a rhombic dodecahedron d12 before. They do exist
| after a quick search, but the much more common d12 is just a
| dodecahedron, with pentagonal faces.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| They're not common, but you can get them
| https://mathsgear.co.uk/products/rhombic-d12-dice
| [deleted]
| akomtu wrote:
| Is it the shape of lithium's electron shell?
| lightedman wrote:
| It is the crystalline shape of pure lithium metal which is
| shown.
| dylan604 wrote:
| aren't shells just these vague clouds where an electron "might"
| be?
| colechristensen wrote:
| No.
|
| Shells are rather precise representations of the wavelike
| properties of electrons as they exist bound in atoms.
|
| Electrons are neither exactly waves or particles, they have
| properties of both.
|
| If you try to interact with an electrons' particle like
| properties you tend to get particles, when you try to inject
| with electrons' wavelike properties you tend to get waves.
|
| The dual nature can be hard to say just right and
| communicate.
|
| The math of what's going on describes it extremely well...
| the "this is what's actually going on" descriptions are more
| like metaphorical stories because on a human scale quantum
| objects just don't exist.
| akomtu wrote:
| On this dual nature, can it be that the electron cloud _is_
| the electron itself? i.e. it 's not a point-like particle
| that jumps around, but it's the probability function
| itself, that upon interaction with another cloud-particle
| may shrink into a tiny ball-like cloud, but never a point.
| In atoms, electrons interact in such a way that they assume
| curious drum-like shapes, but when they are set free
| somewhere in the interstellar space, the same electron will
| be a gigantic planet-size, albeit very thin, cloud. Edit:
| continuing this speculation, in the double-slit experiment
| an electron passes thru both slits, then shrinks into an
| atom-size cloud upon contact with the screen, and a "weak
| measurement" would be a way to slightly disturb the shape
| of the electron, to correspondingly disturb the shape of
| the detector.
| colechristensen wrote:
| The "reality" of any QM interpretation should be taken
| with a grain of salt and not too seriously. There is some
| debate, but yet what you're proposing goes considerably
| too far. The dual nature is more or less real, you can't
| distill it into one exact thing.
|
| QED describes the behavior of electrons very well.
| Interpretations are projected from equations but what a
| thing "actually" is only comes from the models.
|
| It can be hard to let go of wanting to come up with an
| intuitively satisfying explanation but there is not one.
| Your brain evolved in s world where experiences are
| classical not quantum. Unless you spend a ton of time
| interacting with quantum systems (and still maybe not)
| you're not going to come up with an intuitively
| satisfying explanation of what an electron is.
| dmwood wrote:
| No. The 'faceting' of a crystal is determined by a minimization
| of the 'Gibbs free energy' [a thermo quantity determined mostly
| by the relative energies of different faces of the crystal, at
| low temp] over all the faces. The relative energies of the
| facets are in turn determined by the crystal structure, and the
| favored crystal structure is determined by the 'electronic
| structure' of the material itself. Li is an alkali atom, so
| presumably in the metal donates its outermost 's' electron to
| make a relatively simple metal. Almost never does crystal shape
| in any way reflect directly the atomic structure
| porsager wrote:
| Seems the artwork i did, for my friends research, that got the
| cover on "Advanced Energy Materials" wasn't quite right?
|
| https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/toc/16146840/2012/2/3
|
| Crazy that it's over 10 years ago he made a material with so huge
| gains, and nothing has come of it yet. Scaling really is hard!
| [deleted]
| jug wrote:
| I enjoy the fact that the study's author is named Yuzhang Li.
| puffyengineer wrote:
| [dead]
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