[HN Gopher] The Billionaire Who Controls Your Medical Records (2...
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       The Billionaire Who Controls Your Medical Records (2021)
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2023-08-06 21:07 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.forbes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.forbes.com)
        
       | haspoken wrote:
       | https://archive.is/xanUq
        
       | jackvalentine wrote:
       | And Larry Ellison's Oracle now owns Cerner.
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Oracle might actually be an improvement over Cerner.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | I always wondered why so many hospitals adopted EPIC, it's got
       | the worst UI I've ever seen. This article provides insight to
       | complete the picture: network effects, and lock-in.
       | 
       | It's likely resulted in many deaths. When my friend worked ER,
       | any time Epic went down, they simply switched back to paper
       | forms, the ER waiting room would empty within a few hours. EPIC
       | is, in my opinion, a large fraction of why ER waiting rooms are
       | always full these days.
       | 
       | Between Epic and HIPPA privacy rule[1], the effectiveness of
       | emergency care in the US can only spiral downward. You're forced
       | to slow down and fill out a bunch of online forms before you can
       | let a patient go, filling the ER. Then you're not allowed to
       | follow up on patients and complete the feedback loop of care,
       | because they're no longer an ER patient, and you're not allowed
       | to inquire any more.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_a...
        
         | photonerd wrote:
         | You're going to have to explain how HIPPA privacy slows things
         | down because, frankly, it's one of the most important privacy
         | laws for citizens I can can think of.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | That is simply misinformation. HIPAA rules do not prevent
         | healthcare providers from following up with patients. You
         | should read the actual HIPAA final rule.
        
       | master_crab wrote:
       | The key to making money: find something with extreme regulatory
       | capture.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | There is actually not much regulatory capture in the EHR
         | market. The FDA doesn't classify most of those products as
         | regulated medical devices. Provider organizations are required
         | to implement certain open interoperability standards so that
         | authorized parties can securely access patient charts so they
         | are unlikely to buy an EHR without those features. But the
         | required APIs are fairly easy for any competent engineering
         | team to build, and there are open source libraries like HAPI
         | FHIR which already get you halfway there.
         | 
         | https://www.healthit.gov/topic/oncs-cures-act-final-rule
         | 
         | The real barrier to entry is _relationships_. Epic has made
         | huge investments in direct sales and consulting services to
         | give the decision makers in large provider organizations
         | exactly what they want.
        
       | majormajor wrote:
       | You can't just blame to tools for annoying hospital policy, but
       | similarly to https://chrisgagne.com/1255/mary-poppendiecks-the-
       | tyranny-of... there's a nasty feedback loop that the provisioning
       | of software for administration and tracking (vs direct use as
       | tools) unlocks and enhance.
       | 
       | The perceived ability to have more detailed documents means all
       | the effort goes into the detail of the documents and, with finite
       | effort (or at least finite amount the higher-ups are willing to
       | spend on individual contributors to give them more time to do
       | things), more effort is spent on record-keeping than on the
       | actual job.
       | 
       | Now that you have more record-keeping you can dig into "stats"
       | and "trends" etc that may not have any statistical significance
       | at the level you're inspecting them, but are suddenly much more
       | visible, and pushes you towards tinkering with the process
       | instead of the what of the work.
       | 
       | And then that slows down the doing, which makes you more
       | interested in tracking and improving the process, repeat repeat
       | repeat.
        
       | zdw wrote:
       | This software is the epitome of a roach motel, or Hotel
       | California - data enters, but can never leave. Epic software is
       | so proprietary and customized for each customers that two
       | hospitals using it can't even exchange records, or have the same
       | interaction methodology (source: I have family that worked at two
       | large hospitals, both with Epic).
       | 
       | People had a fit over Windows in the 90's and 2000's being
       | proprietary lock in, but it was never the OS that was the
       | problem, it was MS Office format lock-in that caused all the
       | issues, which is still a problem.
       | 
       | Open, simple, interoperable formats are the way out. We need more
       | of these, especially in the health care sector.
        
         | pajushi wrote:
         | Unless you have additional sources, you're not being very
         | honest. Standards exist like FHIR, published by HL7 which sets
         | global standards for healthcare. https://www.hl7.org/
         | 
         | Epic provides support for these standards.
         | https://fhir.epic.com/
        
           | adwf wrote:
           | FHIR is about as far from what I'd call a standard as you can
           | get. Each individual country/region/hospital/department/lab
           | can define "profiles" that configure the data to their
           | specific use case and no-one else's. Not exactly the aim of a
           | standard in the usual computing sense.
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | The baseline HL7 FHIR standard is more of a toolkit than
             | something intended for real-world interoperability.
             | Fortunately there are multiple FHIR accelerators such as
             | CodeX, Argonaut, Da Vinci, etc which write detailed
             | Implementation Guides for specific use cases. Any
             | organization can follow those IGs and be confident of
             | achieving meaningful interoperability. Some of them are
             | even mandated by federal regulations.
             | 
             | http://www.hl7.org/about/fhir-accelerator/index.cfm
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | Does it actually work in practice? I often see 'theoretical'
           | support, you can export data but if you re-import it, it's
           | all fucked.
           | 
           | Like Zigbee, in theory like every company supports it but in
           | practice moat imlementations is not compatiable with each-
           | other
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Yes, it works in practice. The trouble is more with the
             | customers than the vendor. Some customers are still using
             | obsolete versions that are missing the latest standards-
             | based open interoperability features. Or they just haven't
             | enabled those features.
        
             | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
             | Yes; Epic participates in the CareEverywhere network which
             | has a gateway to the CareQuality network, thus supporting
             | decent interoperability with other hospitals and clinics
             | using a variety of EHRs.
             | 
             | Now, how _much_ they share is potentially open to debate.
        
               | rawgabbit wrote:
               | Is there any public documentation on Epic and how one can
               | interact with it?
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | https://open.epic.com/
        
         | Herodotus38 wrote:
         | This is not universally true, but I don't know where your
         | family works or in what capacity. There are a lot of issues
         | with epic but unfortunately it is the best out of all the
         | garbage out there. Out of all the EMR's I have used, Epic is
         | the easiest to share information both within different
         | hospitals using epic and sharing from epic to other emrs like
         | Cerner. Source: Am physician who has worked in many different
         | hospitals, and use Cerner currently, grabbing info from Epic
         | most days.
        
           | secabeen wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm starting to see records from different medical
           | organizations showing up in each other's EPIC MyChart logins.
           | Not terrible!
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-06 23:01 UTC)