[HN Gopher] Flux Pinning in sample of LK-99
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Flux Pinning in sample of LK-99
        
       Author : kochie
       Score  : 272 points
       Date   : 2023-08-05 09:55 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | eugene3306 wrote:
       | Is this material safe to handle?
       | 
       | It feels like this thing soon will start appearing all over ebay
       | and aliexpress
        
         | makeworld wrote:
         | It has lead in it.
        
           | HDThoreaun wrote:
           | Lead is safe to handle, you just can't eat it.
        
             | crote wrote:
             | Handling lead tends to result on lead being on your hands,
             | which has a nasty tendency to result in lead being on your
             | lunch if you are not careful.
        
               | Ancapistani wrote:
               | Basic safety precautions are fine.
               | 
               | To put it in perspective: millions of people in the US
               | regularly handle ammunition and shoot firearms at indoor
               | ranges. Those contain lead in many forms: the projectile
               | itself, lead fulminate in the primer compounds, lead
               | suspended in the air after firing, etc.
               | 
               | You make sure to have adequate ventilation, don't touch
               | your face, and wash your hands when you're done. It's
               | important, yes, but not really that big a deal.
        
         | naillo wrote:
         | Would that be legal, considering they have a patent (pending)
         | for it? Not denying it won't appear anyway just curious
        
           | mensetmanusman wrote:
           | It is illegal in places that have rule of law.
           | 
           | This is to create a risk reduction mechanism for investing in
           | capital to make this at scale, which will cost on the order
           | of $100-500M to scale for world use through trial and error.
           | 
           | If IP is ignored, no business will invest in the initial
           | experiments due to first mover disadvantage in game theory.
        
             | Iulioh wrote:
             | >If IP is ignored, no business will invest in the initial
             | experiments due to first mover disadvantage in game theory.
             | 
             | Not if you belive that
        
               | mensetmanusman wrote:
               | This has been shown to be historically true, because
               | startup costs can be tens to hundreds of million in R&D.
               | 
               | The business that spends will have their workers
               | immediately poached if they don't have IP protecting
               | their initial startup costs.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
           | I'm not sure how it works, but this was the first result:
           | 
           | > Patents are territorial and must be filed in each country
           | where protection is sought.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.stopfakes.gov/article?id=Is-My-US-Patent-
           | Good-in...
        
             | jtwaleson wrote:
             | Not a patent attorney, but as far as I know: The patent is
             | currently pending (as in, being evaluated to see if it will
             | be granted). Once it is granted in one country it can be
             | expanded to multiple countries within a couple of months,
             | given that the first country is part of the Patent
             | Cooperation Treaty. So if an invention is marked "patent
             | pending", you know you will have the risk of being sued by
             | said company at some time in the future if you copy the
             | invention.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | I hope it is. It will be a perfect toy for little kids, right
         | along the little ball magnets.
        
           | 0xfaded wrote:
           | Those magnets can be deadly to children of swallowed:
           | 
           | https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/little-magnets-
           | are...
        
       | justicz wrote:
       | The post just says the video came from BiliBili. Does anyone know
       | the actual source? I want to believe but this video is
       | suspicious.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | To be considered a rumor
         | 
         | > He posted on his personal social media, According to public
         | information, he is an assistant engineer in the Department of
         | Metallurgical Engineering and Materials of Wuhan University of
         | Science and Technology, and is also a doctoral candidate at the
         | school.
         | 
         | https://nitter.net/songwenxuan6/status/1687850304803426306
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | est wrote:
         | the source is Chinese tiktok (douyin)
         | 
         | https://www.douyin.com/video/7263715495256378659
        
       | phreeza wrote:
       | Someone linked to this on the manifold market:
       | https://imgur.io/a/AY1oaIO it does look a bit weird to me but I
       | am not expert enough to tell if this could be explained by
       | optical/compression effects.
        
         | incrudible wrote:
         | Looks unlike any compression artifact I have ever seen. Two
         | remarkable discoveries in one video! Big, if true.
        
       | arecurrence wrote:
       | In the lk99 subreddit, a higher res video was posted
       | https://www.douyin.com/video/7263715495256378659
        
       | PUSH_AX wrote:
       | Forgive me, I know little about these things, but what's the
       | relationship between this phenomenon and the quantum locking seen
       | in other super conducting magnets, this looks as described as
       | "pinned", what would allow it to behave like the famous video of
       | the magnets levitating around that circular track:
       | https://youtu.be/Ws6AAhTw7RA
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | Superconductors will resist moving at any direction where the
         | magnetic flux gets weaker, stronger, or changes direction.
         | That's why they get described as "pinned".
         | 
         | Other diamagnets do that too, but in a decaying way that allows
         | for movement. They usually rotate or move slowly sideways.
         | 
         | No other kind of magnetism show similar behavior. They either
         | attract or repel all the way in.
        
       | incrudible wrote:
       | The most likely explanation: This is a speck of dirt on a string
       | filmed as an attempt to manipulate the prediction markets.
        
       | progrus wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | Zetice wrote:
         | As revolutionary as this stuff is, it fits within our current
         | understanding of the universe, or maybe a tiny bit outside (for
         | now).
         | 
         | Intelligent interstellar aliens using unfathomable technology,
         | secretly interacting with humans doesn't.
         | 
         | What you're asserting at this point is that all of science as
         | we know it is wrong, and everything we've built was just
         | incredible, one-in-a-trillion fortune that any of it worked at
         | all.
         | 
         | It's like looking at a plane or a helium balloon and deciding
         | gravity is wrong.
        
           | Jevon23 wrote:
           | >everything we've built was just incredible, one-in-a-
           | trillion fortune that any of it worked at all.
           | 
           | That's not how revision in science works.
           | 
           | We know that Newtonian mechanics was wrong and incomplete,
           | but at the same time, it didn't work by "luck" either.
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | That's exactly how revision in science works; incomplete is
             | wildly different from "wrong", and most of our
             | understanding of science would need to be fully wrong for
             | aliens to do what is claimed they can do, to the point
             | where we would have needed to get impossibly lucky in order
             | to have built the things we have.
        
               | Jevon23 wrote:
               | Why would, say, FTL travel being possible imply that we
               | needed to be "impossibly lucky" to build the things we
               | have?
               | 
               | I'm not a physicist, but I am mathematically literate, so
               | please feel free to direct me to technical sources.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Because if reality works in a way that lets little green
               | men fly ships across galaxies and secretly hang out with
               | world leaders, then we're incredibly wrong about how the
               | universe works.
               | 
               | And the problem with just being okay with our wrongness
               | is that it doesn't match up with our ability to predict
               | and rely on the science to complete complex engineering
               | projects.
               | 
               | Here's a math example: it's like saying 1+1 is sometimes
               | actually fleeb. Easy to imagine, but wholly destructive
               | to the entire concept of math.
        
               | Jevon23 wrote:
               | >And the problem with just being okay with our wrongness
               | is that it doesn't match up with our ability to predict
               | and rely on the science to complete complex engineering
               | projects.
               | 
               | But a theory can be false while still being predictively
               | accurate.
               | 
               | Classical mechanics predicts that quantum tunneling
               | should be impossible. But as it turns out, quantum
               | tunneling is possible. So classical mechanics is false -
               | or at least partially false. But classical mechanics is
               | still predictively successful in a wide range of
               | scenarios. So, a theory can be both false and
               | predictively successful.
               | 
               | The most natural way to explain this is to say that
               | classical mechanics is an approximation of a deeper, more
               | accurate theory. Similarly, our current best theories
               | could be approximations of as yet unknown theories -
               | theories that allow for certain phenomena that are
               | currently thought to be impossible.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Around the margins yes, but directionally no, a theory
               | isn't this kind of wrong.
               | 
               | There is likely an LK-99 sized gap in scientific
               | knowledge, there is not likely an "aliens land on earth
               | and want to hang out" sized gap.
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | Yes, and I meant to imply that the alien thing is a hoax, but
           | the UFOs are real tech. Obviously. Come on!
        
         | gpderetta wrote:
         | Please. Aliens are only a cover. It is well known that the
         | pentagon has had a supercomputer that reached superintelligence
         | decades ago and has used to slowly tickle advanced technology
         | to the masses.
        
           | rowanG077 wrote:
           | Don't kid yourself. This is only another smokescreen. In fact
           | Abraham Lincoln after his stunt as a vampire hunter was able
           | to seal god. They know use gods body to slowly extract
           | secrets of the universe.
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | Bullshit on both. It's just a bunch of corrupt intelligence
           | folks running a psyop.
        
         | mcpackieh wrote:
         | Even a breakaway civilization of ancient Atlaneans living under
         | Antarctica makes more sense than aliens. Do yourself a favor
         | and look up how far away other stars are, consider how many
         | times astronomers have looked into space and _not_ seen aliens,
         | and then ask yourself why aliens would be so good at cloaking
         | themselves in space but would _ostensibly_ let themselves be
         | seen on Earth itself.
         | 
         | Spoilers: it's not Atlanteans either, it's just a big tangle of
         | hoaxes and self-delusion from people who _want to believe._
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | The aliens are a hoax! Come on! How is everyone so gullible
           | that _that_ is how you interpret me?
        
           | Jevon23 wrote:
           | >Do yourself a favor and look up how far away other stars
           | are, consider how many times astronomers have looked into
           | space and not seen aliens
           | 
           | Exoplanets weren't confirmed to exist until 1992. Just
           | sayin'.
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | And our goggles to see far away aren't that great. We
             | barely know anything about the surface of these planets.
             | 
             | The main argument in favour of the non-existence of aliens
             | are religious books.
        
               | wredue wrote:
               | We don't need to actually see the surface of a planet to
               | know whether or not that planet harbours life capable of
               | space travel depending how far away the planet is.
               | 
               | Unless they took a completely different, or radically
               | faster pathway to interstellar travel.
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | https://www.freethink.com/wp-
               | content/uploads/2022/09/image.p...
               | 
               | These are pictures of exoplanets made in 2022.
               | 
               | I doubt we really know what is going there.
               | 
               | The best we can do is to guess the chemistry of the
               | atmosphere and assume that all forms of lives require the
               | same setup as on Earth.
        
               | mcpackieh wrote:
               | >The main argument in favour of the non-existence of
               | aliens are religious books.
               | 
               | Not in the slightest, that's the worst strawman against
               | it (and for the record, I am an atheist, so drop this
               | line of argument now before I'm forced to counter-insult
               | you.) Try the Rare Earth Hypothesis. There are only 10^11
               | stars in the Milky Way galaxy, you don't need to stack up
               | many terms in a "Drake equation" to push the result to
               | near zero in the Milky Way. The Rare Earth Hypothesis is
               | consistent with all empirical observations thusfar.
               | 
               | Furthermore, even if there were other intelligence
               | species like us in our Galaxy, they would be incapable of
               | reaching us just as we are incapable of reaching them. To
               | believe these aliens are visiting Earth you need to
               | explain why you can't see them _anywhere_ except
               | ostensibly in deserts above American military facilities
               | and installations for testing secret aircraft.
        
               | Jevon23 wrote:
               | >To believe these aliens are visiting Earth you need to
               | explain why you can't see them anywhere except ostensibly
               | in deserts above American military facilities and
               | installations for testing secret aircraft.
               | 
               | FWIW, I think this is a much stronger argument against
               | the existence of aliens than "they don't fit with our
               | current understanding of physics (which is known to be
               | incomplete anyway)".
        
         | progrus wrote:
         | Yes, duh, the aliens are fake. Everything other than the craft
         | is a hoax!
         | 
         | I said this was like pulling teeth. Sheesh.
        
         | BasedAnon wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | Yes, yes, this person gets it. Thank you.
        
           | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
           | the actual room temperature superconductor was adrenochrome
           | the whole time!
        
             | BasedAnon wrote:
             | adrenochrome? chrome? metal? you know what else is a metal?
             | lead!
             | 
             | lead apatite? appetite? hunger? hungry for... metal????
             | 
             | i think you've cracked it
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | I'd rather evoke "alchemy" if we're going to reach for the non-
         | scientific magic explanations.
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | It's not magic, it's a psyop, the aliens are fake, and y'all
           | are gullible fools.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | That's just magic by another name. You believe in magic to
             | assuage your fears and help with a world that can feel too
             | nuanced and complex. Simple answers soothe. That's
             | something humans have been doing for a long, long time. If
             | it helps, great!
        
               | progrus wrote:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_
               | (Un...
        
           | sph wrote:
           | At least in the alchemy camp we have minds like Isaac Newton.
           | 
           | On the UFO side it's mostly hucksters and numpties commenting
           | "wake up sheeple, you can see it's CGI" on ISS live stream
           | videos.
        
             | krapp wrote:
             | Come on. Grusch's mom says he's a nice boy so obviously
             | aliens are real.
        
               | progrus wrote:
               | Grusch is likely just an asset being manipulated. This
               | guy might be involved in pushing the psyop:
               | 
               | https://www.christophermellon.net/
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | In the meantime there is no irrefutable proof
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | sohex wrote:
         | [Citation needed] - What linked patent? It seems incredibly
         | rude to me to dismiss decades of dedicated research this way.
         | This is a human achievement, it's not right to try to take that
         | away from the people who put so much work into it.
        
           | 7thzero wrote:
           | I was curious and did a patent search. This may be it:
           | 
           | https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190348597A1/en
           | (Piezoelectricity-induced High Temperature Superconductor)
        
             | progrus wrote:
             | Yeah this is referred to in the LK99 paper.
        
               | sohex wrote:
               | Where? I don't see a reference to it in either of the
               | initial two papers or in the Korean journal paper.
        
           | progrus wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | BasedAnon wrote:
       | is it possible in theory that flux-pinning could occur without
       | actually causing superconductivity? because LK-99 seems to be
       | decoupling alot of properties we thought were coupled if I'm
       | understanding correctly?
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | That would require 'new physics'. I think most of the weirdness
         | stems from either (1) sample impurity, (2) an extreme form of
         | that where the active bits are really tiny in a large chunk of
         | inert stuff or stuff with its own electromagnetic properties or
         | (3) being mistaken about it being a superconductor in the first
         | place.
        
         | traverseda wrote:
         | It could be an entirely new hitherto unobserved phenomena, but
         | that seems pretty unlikely. I think that having a bunch of tiny
         | superconductors chunks separated by a regular conductor would
         | explain a lot.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | It didn't pin, it bounces, if it was flux pinning it would not
       | bounce when you push it down.
        
         | jack_riminton wrote:
         | Flux pinning doesn't mean it can withstand all forces it just
         | means it will return to where it was
        
           | traverseda wrote:
           | What about those Flux pinned maglev "trains" you see on
           | YouTube?
        
             | mcpackieh wrote:
             | What do you mean "what about?" them? Can you post a video
             | of any of those that don't jiggle when poked?
        
             | XorNot wrote:
             | The idea of those (i.e. like this
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWojYBhvfjM&vl=en) is that
             | they're an example of equi-potential behavior.
             | 
             | The superconductor can move because it's staying at a
             | consistent height.
             | 
             | The video linked is also pretty good at showing similar
             | behaviors to the sample of LK99 we see claimed in the
             | video: the superconductor can wobble, shake and does return
             | to it's original position (or tries to) - but it's got a
             | lot more mass.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | And when you change the mass of the train the height of
               | levitation changes.
        
         | traverseda wrote:
         | Yeah, it's jumping back to a fixed position which isn't how I
         | thought the Meissner effect worked. Since this seems to be
         | posted by someone reputable though it's weird they missed that.
        
           | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
           | Flux pinning is distinct from the Meissner effect
        
         | kochie wrote:
         | That's not true. Here's a video from a few years ago [showing a
         | superconductor flux
         | pinning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSojjjvRCR0). You can
         | see from the video it's moving around. Also if it didn't move
         | when you applied a force to it that would be quite the
         | immovable object.
        
           | cbolton wrote:
           | Another one that looks quite like the behavior shown here:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Hy6F_8n58
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | Ok my bad
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bhaney wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | I've seen people saying this on Twitter and elsewhere, where
         | are we back from?
        
           | sph wrote:
           | Back to annoy us with inane Twitterisms, I reckon.
        
             | alchemist1e9 wrote:
             | It is kinda funny once you get used to it. When there is
             | bad news they say "it's so over" and good news "we're so
             | back". The emotional rollercoaster on LK-99 is pretty
             | intense and these phrases capture that for people. I get it
             | at this point.
        
               | kzrdude wrote:
               | So it's the same as the Bob Ross memes of "Ruined", then
               | :)
        
             | Werewolf255 wrote:
             | X-isms
        
           | beowulfey wrote:
           | Life on twitter teeters on the edge separating intense
           | excitement and horrific despair, and "we are back" means
           | we've switched from one side to the other again
        
           | _0ffh wrote:
           | It's a split meme that refers to the emotional rollercoaster
           | of a prolonged uncertain situation whenever news come in.
           | 
           | Its two parts are "It's so over" when there's bad news and
           | "We're so back" when there's good news.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | I wished they would keep it on Twitter and elsewhere and not
           | bring that crap to HN.
        
             | joquarky wrote:
             | While I agree with your sentiment, the phrase "we're back"
             | is at least as old as the film (1988) Coming to America,
             | probably older.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Can anyone explain if the specimen was found through rigorous
       | research or just sheer luck?
       | 
       | Because it is starting to seem like it's the latter.
        
         | rowanG077 wrote:
         | This is a very odd question to me. All research is essentially
         | this may or may not work. That's why you test it. In a sense
         | finding something cool is a very large part luck.
        
         | sidlls wrote:
         | A very large quantity of discoveries in science are a
         | combination of "well, that's odd" and the "sheer luck"
         | associated with the circumstances producing that statement.
         | 
         | (This isn't a commentary on the truthfulness of the
         | superconductor claims.)
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Yes, but that doesn't answer the question ...
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | Yes it does, the answer is both, but with the caveat that
             | there were people focused on rolling the dice of luck to
             | search for this.
        
         | kijin wrote:
         | Does it matter? Even "rigorous" research depends on luck in
         | many cases, because there are so many unknowns. Theory helps
         | reduce the search space, but there are situations when a brute-
         | force attack is the most efficient way to answer the all-
         | important question: is this real?
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | Many things were discovered out of luck in the course of
         | research.
        
         | mcpackieh wrote:
         | Trying lots of stuff for years and years until something works,
         | aka rigorous research _and_ sheer luck.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Guided brute force search.
        
         | scarmig wrote:
         | There is a combinatorial number of different materials out
         | there. They chose a particular small subset of them that they
         | predicted might have some interesting properties and, over two
         | decades, discovered one that may have those properties.
         | 
         | Most hypotheses are wrong, and even if they turn out right it
         | may well be a case of being right for the wrong reasons.
         | Regardless, this is top tier research: unglamorous,
         | uninstagramable drudgery guided by intellect. Sure, there's
         | luck involved, but research always involves luck.
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | No idea if accurate but there was this which is interesting:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36996337
         | 
         | > " Specifically they were one of the last believers of long-
         | forgotten Russian theory of superconductivity, pioneered by
         | Nikolay Bogolyubov. The accepted theory is entirely based on
         | Cooper pairs, but this theory suggests that a sufficient
         | constraint on electrons may allow superconductivity without
         | actual Cooper pairs. This requires carefully positioned point
         | defects in the crystalline structure, which contemporary
         | scientists consider unlikely and such mode of SC was never
         | formally categorized unlike type-I and type-II SC. Professor
         | Tong-seek Chair (coedongsig) represented a regret about this
         | status quo (in 90s, but still applies today) that this theory
         | was largely forgotten without the proper assessment after the
         | fall of USSR. It was also a very interesting twist that Iris
         | Alexandria, "that Russian catgirl chemist", had an advisor who
         | was a physicist-cum-biochemist studied this theory and as a
         | result were so familiar with the theory that they were able to
         | tell if replications follow the theoretical prediction."
         | 
         | So it might be an old hypothesis brought back?
        
         | overnight5349 wrote:
         | Those two options are not mutually exclusive
        
       | keepamovin wrote:
       | What I like most about this development is that, suddenly, folks
       | with "CEO " or "Founder " in their Twitter bio look uncool, while
       | folks with "<hardscience>" in their twitter bio are uber cool.
       | 
       | Note to pedants: yes yes, the Venn diagram has an intersection.
        
         | naillo wrote:
         | People with <hardscience> in their bio have always been cooler
        
           | fHr wrote:
           | facts
        
         | malermeister wrote:
         | Folks with CEO or "Founder" in their bio have always looked
         | uncool imo.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | I meet on average a hundred of those every year and while
           | some of them are seriously uncool the majority is actually
           | very impressive.
        
             | malermeister wrote:
             | They can be impressive and there's nothing wrong with being
             | a founder or a CEO (I'm one, too!).
             | 
             | Putting it into one's bio is what makes it... cringe, as
             | the kids say.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | It's something pretty standard for funded start-ups
               | because the rest of the ecosystem that they operate in
               | expects it. If it is two guys in an attic it's cringe
               | (see my 'you are not the CEO article') but if you have
               | picked up some funding and employ 20 people I totally get
               | why you would do that.
        
           | mmmpop wrote:
           | [dead]
        
       | shawabawa3 wrote:
       | This is basically proof of room temperature superconductivity
       | correct? (Of course assuming it isn't a hoax)
        
         | pera wrote:
         | This is an hoax and it's sad to see people like Sabine
         | Hossenfelder falling for it so easily:
         | 
         | - video recorder in a kitchen or living room
         | 
         | - created by some random tiktok account
         | 
         | - no credentials, no description
         | 
         | - tagged "mysterious"
         | 
         | It's hard to understand how anyone would believe this,
         | specially after so many other fakes
        
           | p-o wrote:
           | Hoax is quite a strong word where there's been quite a few
           | replication attempts with various degrees of success. Like
           | others have said, we're not sure what this is, but it almost
           | certainly isn't a hoax.
           | 
           | As for this video, well, it's like all the other ones that
           | came before it, we'll know more once we have more
           | data/videos/replication attempts.
        
             | pera wrote:
             | I meant that this video is a hoax. I don't hold any
             | opinions regarding LK-99.
        
             | mr_mitm wrote:
             | Some of the other videos were at least from some more or
             | less reputable sources. This one appears to be anonymous,
             | or am I wrong?
        
               | Hakkin wrote:
               | The source[0] seems to be the Douyin (TikTok) user Lian
               | Dan Shi A Xiang [1], who also posted a different LK-99
               | demonstration video[2] a few days ago that shows similar
               | results to previous demonstrations by other researchers.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.douyin.com/video/7263715495256378659
               | 
               | [1] https://www.douyin.com/user/MS4wLjABAAAAJaTuSBArw0c6b
               | K0eI9T1...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.douyin.com/video/7262676385154583860
        
               | mr_mitm wrote:
               | Yes but what research institute are they affiliated with?
               | For all I know this is an pseudonymous TikTok user who is
               | good at faking videos. Why should I take this for
               | anything but complete fiction?
        
               | Hakkin wrote:
               | Certainly not making any claims of the legitimacy, just
               | providing the original sources. There doesn't seem to be
               | any attribution besides the anonymous account.
               | 
               | The Chinese subtitles in the first demonstration claim
               | "further efforts will be made to reduce impurities", then
               | the subsequent video claims "technical details will be
               | published once they are properly organized and
               | documented".
        
           | fallingknife wrote:
           | I see no indication that it was filmed in a kitchen or living
           | room.
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | In fact I see some serious lab quality glassware in the
             | background. But posting without its provenance is a weird
             | for sure.
             | 
             | IMO there's an awful lot of amateur / informal attempts
             | that are promising enough that, while not convincing, are
             | inspiring of hope. But I do wonder how much is fake. But
             | more than a few seem to be clearly not fake, such as the
             | work Varda is posting.
        
         | oxfordmale wrote:
         | No, it is not yet proof of superconductivity. It also requires
         | measurements of the electric resistance as function of the
         | temperature.
         | 
         | For now LK-99 is an material that displays some of the
         | superconducting properties at room temperature.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Let's use the word evidence and not proof for each part of the
         | puzzle
        
         | dmitrybrant wrote:
         | Assuming everything in the video is real, the only remaining
         | question is: what is the actual temperature of that sample?
         | 
         | If all of this checks out, then it's a new era.
        
           | Enginerrrd wrote:
           | It looks convincing to my naive eyes, but how would you
           | differentiate between this and diamagnetic levitation of
           | something like pyrolitic graphite?
        
             | cthalupa wrote:
             | https://twitter.com/Andercot/status/1687748594563268608
             | seems to indicate that simply diamagnetic levitation cannot
             | create the level of stability shown in this video.
        
               | Enginerrrd wrote:
               | I don't think that's right. Diamagnetic levitation is one
               | of the ways you can get around Earshaw's theorem.
               | 
               | Funny enough this is a quote taken directly from the
               | wikipedia article that Andercot linked, in the
               | "loopholes" section:
               | 
               | >Earnshaw's theorem has no exceptions for non-moving
               | permanent ferromagnets. However, Earnshaw's theorem does
               | not necessarily apply to moving ferromagnets,[4] certain
               | electromagnetic systems, pseudo-levitation and
               | diamagnetic materials. These can thus seem to be
               | exceptions, though in fact they exploit the constraints
               | of the theorem.
               | 
               | ...
               | 
               | >Diamagnetic materials are excepted because they exhibit
               | only repulsion against the magnetic field, whereas the
               | theorem requires materials that have both repulsion and
               | attraction. An example of this is the famous levitating
               | frog (see Diamagnetism).
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | How can a diamagnet be stable on top of a single dipole?
               | Earnshaw's criterion being invalid just means that there
               | is at least one static arrangement of magnetic dipoles
               | that lead to stability. However, if you have a point-like
               | diamagnet resting on top of a single dipole it can't
               | possibly be stable because there is no point at which it
               | will have zero net force and stable higher-order
               | derivatives. You need something like a bowl-shaped
               | magnetic field arrangement for it to stay in a single
               | point, or have the diamagnet itself be shaped something
               | like a bowl over the field.
        
               | Enginerrrd wrote:
               | Yeah you bring up a good point... I don't think it can.
               | 
               | But you CAN do it with concentric rings of magnets. Such
               | magnets seem common for this exact demonstration
               | actually. It doesn't look like one of those in the video
               | though.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | Sure enough. Which, well, makes sense, since
               | superconductors are "perfect" diamagnets, so them being
               | able to do it seems to necessitate that the greater class
               | of diamagnets on the whole can too.
               | 
               | The only examples I can find of stable non-superconductor
               | diamagnets involved 4+ magnet arrays, though, or
               | multipole magnets, e.g.
               | https://phys.org/news/2014-08-diamagnetic-levitation-
               | pyrolit... and not dipole configurations like this video
               | seems to show.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Arn_Thor wrote:
           | No, the video contains no information about its conductivity.
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | Such tiny samples warm up to room temperature very quickly,
           | on the order of a few seconds. In my experience, it's not
           | possible to make such small pieces of YBCO superconductor
           | levitate, they warm up too fast.
        
             | topynate wrote:
             | No frost on the sample either. The only way I can think of
             | to fake this in camera is to make the "sample" out of a
             | strong magnet, and make the "magnet" a hollow shell
             | concealing a chilled piece of YBCO!
        
               | incrudible wrote:
               | You would be surprised what can be achieved with bit of
               | nylon string and an appropriate camera setup. If this is
               | a most groundbreaking discovery, why waste all that
               | screen resolution on the backdrop?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kzrdude wrote:
       | Nitter: https://nitter.net/Andercot/status/1687740396691185664
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Alternative video link here, but it's in chinese so no idea if
         | it gives any more information about the source:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37010498
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | yorwba wrote:
           | The video is watermarked Lian Dan Shi A Xiang  (Alchemist
           | Axiang), which is also the username of the Douyin video, so I
           | think that's the closest to the original source we can get.
           | (The tweet claims Bilibili as the source, but it was
           | apparently a live stream and Lian Dan Shi A Xiang 's Bilibili
           | account currently only has a previous video without full
           | levitation. https://bilibili.com/video/BV1sM4y1H7MX )
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | OT but why do I need to press "enable this playback" and reload
         | the page to view the clip? What does it do?
        
           | meibo wrote:
           | Because they want to avoid sending your IP to Twitter if you
           | aren't going to watch the video, and the way to do that
           | without JS is to only render the video embed if you actually
           | request it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | trashburger wrote:
           | HLS is a way to serve a video in chunks over HTTP. It's how
           | livestreams are implemented in most places. Twitter serves
           | videos in HLS chunks, but Nitter doesn't want to proxy it to
           | you because videos take a lot of bandwidth. In order to let
           | you choose whether you want to connect to Twitter servers, it
           | first asks you whether you want to enable playback.
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | non crap link:
       | 
       | http://farside.link/twitter.com/andercot/status/168774039669...
        
       | semajian wrote:
       | It's hard to imagine how this could be faked short of digital
       | manipulation, and it seems implausible that it would be a known
       | high TC superconductor because it would warm up too fast. Absent
       | the former explantation, I'm starting to believe this is real.
       | Also, it's not like all the author's are unknown hacks. Hyun Tak
       | Kim has about 10k citations (Google scholar, which sometimes
       | combines people who have the same name though) and authored a
       | paper in scientific reports which got L&K interested in
       | collaborating with him. The guy seems to know superconductivity
       | so I'm feeling rather optimistic about this.
        
         | thecopy wrote:
         | According to this video:
         | https://twitter.com/xmal/status/1300754522218913799 it is
         | possible to have stable levitation using a copper plate below
         | the magnet.
         | 
         | OP's video has two stacked metal objects - could the lower one
         | possibly contain copper?
        
           | raziel2701 wrote:
           | The object that is rotating is a magnet. It's not what we're
           | seeing with the flake which appears to be flux pinned.
           | 
           | If this is fake, it's a very well-done fake. I'm feeling 60%
           | sure that LK-99 is RT superconductor at this point. It has
           | theoretical support now since last weekend.
        
           | yorwba wrote:
           | That one is clearly rotating. Magnetic levitation with a
           | rotating field is not too difficult (you can get levitating
           | flower pots as cheap novelty toys) but the sample in the new
           | video appears fully static.
           | 
           | Edit: relevant Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin-
           | stabilized_magnetic_levit...
        
             | nyanpasu64 wrote:
             | The video in the reply
             | (https://twitter.com/xmal/status/1300794329347260417) seems
             | to show levitation even when the magnet isn't rotating?
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | They're stacked to increase the field density.
        
         | Qem wrote:
         | > Hyun Tak Kim has about 10k citations (Google scholar, which
         | sometimes combines people who have the same name though) and
         | authored a paper in scientific reports which got L&K interested
         | in collaborating with him.
         | 
         | It appears he was a latecomer to the project, mostly borrowing
         | his reputation to the trio of anonymous, non anglosphere native
         | original authors.
        
           | light_hue_1 wrote:
           | Let's be less cynical. Nothing to do with borrowing
           | reputation.
           | 
           | The original authors have something. They don't have the
           | expertise in condensed matter physics to really know what.
           | They don't know how to report results and what results would
           | be conclusive. Their work is simply not convincing, and if
           | they were experts they would also not be convinced.
           | 
           | That's why they brought in another collaborator who is an
           | expert. But because the paper was released early it's clearly
           | a mess. You can see the big quality improvement though just
           | between the two drafts.
        
             | Qem wrote:
             | It's not cynism. The disagreement about authorship
             | apparently was motivated by someone in the original team
             | being pushed aside to open a slot for the well connected
             | "10k citations" guy. It's a old problem academia still
             | fails to address. See:
             | 
             | https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jo
             | u...
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-colonial_science
        
               | Facemelters wrote:
               | No one knows if this version of events is true
        
               | Qem wrote:
               | Indeed. But if further investigation reveals the
               | situation to be what it appears to be, this would follow
               | a long list of similar occurrences, the likes of Cesar
               | Lattes and Jocelyn Bell.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | > It's hard to imagine how this could be faked short of digital
         | manipulation
         | 
         | So, it's easy to imagine how this could be faked.
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | I guess the point is, it can be a fabrication, it can be
           | something very important, and it can't really be anything in
           | between.
        
           | ynniv wrote:
           | It can easily be faked, using a technique that would destroy
           | the poster's career. It's one thing to not do something to
           | the letter, and another to commit blatant fraud. Most career
           | academics would not burn their career for the lulz.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | It's an anonymous video.
        
           | ncr100 wrote:
           | Alternatively, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolytic_carbon
           | is discussed in the Twitter thread by the OP as a possible
           | explanation of "not superconductivity" . . .
        
             | cthalupa wrote:
             | Not an expert, but my understanding is that magnet
             | configuration could not create a stable levitation for
             | pyrolytic graphite - you need an array of magnets, e.g.
             | https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1010/1010.5761.pdf
             | 
             | Doing a quick sanity check on youtube videos, every example
             | I can find of it levitating involves use of magnet arrays
             | as well.
        
           | semajian wrote:
           | Well, yes
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | I'm holding a small basket until one of the reputable labs
             | reproduces this. Anonymous videos on Twitter are a bit too
             | anonymous for me.
        
         | pera wrote:
         | Seriously? To me this looks like a chip of graphite glued to an
         | invisible thread. The way the object moves is not what I would
         | expect from magnetism (see second 10 for instance)
        
           | tester457 wrote:
           | This video describes quantum locking as strings going through
           | a superconductor.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/8GY4m022tgo?t=957
        
           | mcpackieh wrote:
           | How can it _look_ like something that is ostensibly
           | invisible? It 's not swinging around like a pendulum, so what
           | exactly are you seeing that makes you think it _looks_ like
           | an _invisible_ string?
        
             | Cushman wrote:
             | What accounts for the smooth "settling" into place after
             | the last touch around 10s?
             | 
             | I have no idea what I'm talking about, but in other flux
             | pinning demonstrations the sample seems to oscillate around
             | the fixed point. That smooth settling looks like some sort
             | of damping, like maybe a force that increases with
             | distance, like maybe spring tension.
             | 
             | (Of course, "we have no idea" is an acceptable answer if
             | that turns out to be the case.)
        
               | mcpackieh wrote:
               | Air resistance seems like a reasonable explanation for
               | the dampening. Furthermore if it's not pure and only
               | partially superconducting, the dampening could be due to
               | magnetic fields forming eddy currents in the sample.
               | 
               | > _(Of course, "we have no idea" is an acceptable answer
               | if that turns out to be the case.)_
               | 
               | Of course.
        
               | Cushman wrote:
               | Good hypotheses both! "We've never been able to pin
               | something this size before" covers a lot of wiggle room.
               | So to speak.
               | 
               | (FWIW I'm thrilled about the _possibility_ of a rtrp drop
               | this year, and I have to assume  'pera is as well. But
               | this video doesn't look _just_ like flux pinning we've
               | seen before. It's visibly a little different in a way
               | that wants explanation. I wouldn't come out the gate
               | calling it a hoax, but I'd feel better about not doing
               | that if the basis for skepticism were at least
               | acknowledged.)
        
             | pera wrote:
             | The thread is horizontally positioned, left to right, not
             | vertically.
        
               | gabesullice wrote:
               | Finding a thread that small would be a feat of its own. I
               | wonder if your eyes might be getting tricked by the
               | watermark?
        
               | mcpackieh wrote:
               | But you haven't explained how it _looks_ like that. It
               | _could_ be that, but it _looks_ like it 's floating. What
               | is it about _the appearance of this thing_ which has you
               | believing there is a string?
        
               | incrudible wrote:
               | If there is a magician on the stage, you can safely
               | presume there is no actual magic involved, even though
               | you do not know how exactly the trick works.
               | 
               | For actual flux pinning, the first thing you would do is
               | show what happens if you put the thing upside down. It
               | should stick. Even if it does not, you would show that
               | _it does not_.
        
           | nullc wrote:
           | This is what a pinned superconductor looks like. Here is a
           | video I made of some YCBO over a small magnet:
           | https://nt4tn.net/random/superconductor.mp4 you can see it
           | settle back back when I move it with tongs (until i push hard
           | enough to get it to snap into a new orientation).
           | 
           | If I had a magnet that was much bigger than the
           | superconductor it would look even more similar (less
           | 'pivoty').
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Excellent video, really very nice. I like it how you forced
             | the flux pinning by punching a hole in the middle of the
             | superconductor, that makes it all much more visible. You
             | can practically visualize the fieldlines escaping through
             | the middle and becoming an elastic pivot connected to the
             | magnet.
        
           | nicpottier wrote:
           | Have you watched other videos of flux pinning? This sure
           | looks like those to me, it's a weird phenomenon.
        
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