[HN Gopher] "Absurd": Google, Amazon rebuked over unsupported Ch...
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"Absurd": Google, Amazon rebuked over unsupported Chromebooks still
for sale
Author : specto
Score : 78 points
Date : 2023-08-04 21:32 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| neilv wrote:
| Does the accounting math on the value of having those Chromebooks
| still running include the value of retaining that user of you're-
| the-product advertising and general stickiness?
|
| Or does the math say they'd probably keep that user, no matter
| what device that user uses (at least for now, though over time
| Apple or MS could edge out Google services with their own), and
| that turning old Chromebooks into insecure/irresponsible bricks
| helps generate revenue from sales of new Chromebooks, and keeps
| manufacturing partners happy?
| jolan wrote:
| Would be great if EOL models could be officially transitioned to
| ChromeOS Flex in some way.
| prepend wrote:
| This makes me think that Google is going to kill the ChromeBook
| project. It's not making them much money (if any). Since it's
| just a marketing spend for the small laptop market, they should
| care about PR.
|
| But they don't care about PR as evidenced by this stupidity that
| makes Google look like stupid engineers who can't support their
| product.
|
| And the prices are high. $500 for a "new" Chromebook mode from 5
| years ago is madness.
|
| I give them 5 years until they just kill it all. If we're lucky
| they'll make some bogus foundation that will give it a few years
| to limp on.
| supernova87a wrote:
| The Chromebooks no longer get updates, but how long can they keep
| on working usably? The article doesn't convey enough detail about
| this difference, or the story is making it sound like the laptops
| will die on that day.
| dyingkneepad wrote:
| Meanwhile, I'm still sitting on my unsupported Google Pixel 3
| without absolutely any reason to upgrade it besides "Google
| decided to not give it any more security updates". There's
| nothing on newer phones that I want, this one works just fine,
| even its battery levels! Why, oh why!?
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| They eventually got LineageOS working on the Pixels.
| mciancia wrote:
| > "Google decided to not give it any more security updates"
|
| I mean, this sounds like pretty good reason to me
| rexreed wrote:
| I wish I could keep using my current unsupported android phone
| but slowly all my critical apps are no longer working including
| the banking apps which won't support my android version. What
| do you do about that?
| lostmsu wrote:
| Unlock and install LineageOS or one of other alternatives.
|
| Good resource:
| https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/wiki
| freedomben wrote:
| Can you use banking apps on LineageOS? Will it pass
| SafetyNet?
| Knee_Pain wrote:
| Ask hardware manufacturers where their open source device
| drivers are
| tgflynn wrote:
| Yes, and you can still buy those new on Amazon with no mention
| that they're unsupported, just like the chromebooks.
| causality0 wrote:
| Cloud-dependent goods should be required to carry an expiration
| date right on the package.
| krabizzwainch wrote:
| Honest question, don't we see this constantly with Amazon AND
| news sites that constantly post "deals" on computers? "Buy this
| MacBook Air for $500 off!" But they never mention its from 2015
| and will be not supported by MacOS much longer. Or you'll
| constantly see deals like this on Windows laptops with 4th gen
| intel processors or refurbished business laptops.
|
| In general nothing is changing for me. I still have to babysit
| EVERYONE I know through the computer buying process so that they
| don't get screwed over.
| jsight wrote:
| TBH, I've never understood why they don't just decouple the
| browser from the OS and keep providing browser updates for as
| long as possible.
|
| They wouldn't update the base kernel, but they'd be no less
| secure than the average windows box.
| rkeene2 wrote:
| They have started doing just that with "LaCros" [0].
|
| [0]
| https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/l...
| cunidev wrote:
| This is a disastrous situation in terms of e-waste, if we
| consider how long laptops can survive when using a reasonable
| software stack.
|
| With most Linux setups, web browsing on extremely JS-heavy
| websites is the only area where you might feel considerable
| differences between a new laptop and one from 7-10 years ago.
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| That some of these cost as little as $69 brand new is alarming to
| me. Tech that cheap is usually destined to become e-waste. Used
| models that were more expensive than that when new are better for
| the planet and the user.
| zdragnar wrote:
| This is very much a "let them eat cake" comment.
| benguild wrote:
| The Chromebook death date is absurd in general. I bought my mom
| one a while ago and then she had to basically get rid of it when
| it was perfectly fine.
| specto wrote:
| This is one of the reasons I suggested a friend get the
| Framework chromebook. Even if they stop supporting ChromeOS,
| they can move to another OS.
| riku_iki wrote:
| what happened exactly after end of life date? Was it just no
| update arrived but device being fully functional?
| mh- wrote:
| They stop receiving security updates, too.
| cosmojg wrote:
| Was it locked down enough that you couldn't replace the OS?
| jacquesm wrote:
| They are locked down beyond what the average lay person is
| willing to go through before giving up.
| mdwalters wrote:
| You can, that's what I've done with my current Chromebook
| squarefoot wrote:
| Don't throw away your unsupported Chromebook/box, you can unlock
| it and install whichever OS would be compatible with similar
| architecture PCs, making them a lot more versatile and powerful
| compared to those running ChromeOS.
|
| More information here: https://mrchromebox.tech/
| synack wrote:
| I've spent a fair amount of time messing with the ChromiumOS
| source tree and I think Google's EOL dates mostly coincide with
| dropping support for older kernels. Hardware vendors only ship
| drivers and patches for the LTS kernel at the time the device is
| built, they don't test or port those patches to newer kernels.
|
| OEMs don't want to spend time/money on kernel updates for old
| devices. They'd rather sell you a new one.
| mdwalters wrote:
| Can confirm, my parents bought me a Chromebook off of Amazon, and
| looking at the ChromeOS version, it apparently was out of support
| for a year. We had to return it, along with all of the three
| other Chromebooks my parents bought, due to defects on all of
| them (scratched screen, dead battery, etc.)
| chasil wrote:
| I bought a reconditioned Lenovo Chromebook for my parents last
| Christmas, and I kid you not that black plastic sheets had been
| applied to conceal the scratches on the case.
|
| Of course, the software was entirely out of support when I
| brought the device up and logged in.
|
| _Avoid used Chromebooks at all costs._
| CodeCompost wrote:
| Can you put a Linux distro on it?
| outofpaper wrote:
| Yes. N if they are running on Intel they can run just about
| anything. On ARM you can baked your own or use one of the
| handfull of distros designed specifically for this.
| ricktdotorg wrote:
| great discussion on this exact topic from yesterday at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989569
| tedunangst wrote:
| Is this different from any other used laptop whose condition is
| misrepresented?
| riku_iki wrote:
| you could check eol date for that chromebook in advance?..
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I thought the whole point of Chromebooks was that they were
| essentially thin clients for the web, or Google services in
| general. That they have such short expiry dates seems absurd.
|
| _iPads_ are supported for longer. (And at <$500, not much more
| expensive.)
| numbsafari wrote:
| Most of the people I know who have switched from Android to
| Apple did so because a premium phone they had purchased stopped
| receiving updates after the first year or so they were stuck
| with bugs for which the only fix was "buy another phone".
|
| Everyone has EOL dates in this game, but Google consumer device
| ecosystems are the worst of the bunch in this regard.
| preommr wrote:
| > (And at <$500, not much more expensive.)
|
| It's even worse.
|
| From the article:
|
| > But right now, you can buy a "new," unused Flip C302 for $550
| from Amazon or $820 via Walmart's Marketplace
|
| So it's actually cheaper to buy an ipad than an unsupported
| chromebook.
| btown wrote:
| https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en is the
| program in question.
|
| > These updates depend on many device specific non-Google
| hardware and software providers that work with Google to
| provide the highest level of security and stability support.
| For this reason, older Chrome devices cannot receive updates
| indefinitely to enable new OS and browser features. For this
| reason, older Chrome devices cannot receive updates
| indefinitely to enable new OS and browser features.
|
| https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9367166?hl=en
| confirms that security updates are also discontinued after the
| AUE date.
|
| By contrast, Microsoft supported security updates for Windows
| 7, across all the hardware supporting it, from its release in
| 2009 all the way through early 2020. A five-year AUE, less than
| many students' times in post-secondary education, is
| comparatively user-hostile - and downright dangerous from a
| security perspective.
| bob-09 wrote:
| Dumb question, but aren't iPads full of non-Apple hardware
| too?
|
| I can't imagine buying a brand new device and be told that
| it's already too old for system updates because Google and
| the hardware provider are choosing not to work together to
| provide support. Google can point the finger all they want,
| but this is entirely a self-inflicted issue that other system
| software providers seemed to have worked past.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Dumb question, but aren't iPads full of non-Apple
| hardware too?
|
| They are but the parts that matter (i.e. the SoC containing
| the CPU and GPU, as well as anything RF such as WiFi/BT) is
| either made by Apple themselves or at least Apple has the
| full spec sheets - Apple writes _all_ the drivers on their
| own, which was why NVIDIA got the boot, they didn 't want
| to give Apple the documentation they needed (and were still
| dealing with the fallout of Soldergate, which made it an
| even easier decision for Apple). I _think_ they also do the
| binary firmware blobs for RF devices, or at least that was
| the suspicion years ago when I was more involved in
| Hackintoshes as the stability of the same chipset was night
| and day between Windows and macOS.
|
| Apple controls the full stack from hardware over kernel to
| a huge part of userspace. No other vendor comes even close
| to that level of control and experience, even Google only
| started rolling their own SoC (Tensor series) in the Pixel
| 6 and above two years ago.
| robotnikman wrote:
| >By contrast, Microsoft supported security updates for
| Windows 7, across all the hardware supporting it, from its
| release in 2009 all the way through early 2020.
|
| Exactly. Whats the point of getting a chromebook if you need
| a cheap laptop, when you can get a cheap windows one which
| you know will receive updates for at least a decade
| bushbaba wrote:
| Shows how apples iPads for education might come out ahead in
| the long run.
| HenryBemis wrote:
| Perhaps an institution may go for the iPad as it is harder to
| bypass the security and root/jailbreak and install apps
| (APKs) from a PC.
|
| On the other if you are like me and prefer to read from a 10"
| or a 12.4" (Samsung) tablet, for which I don't mind the 'no
| updates', as I use it only as a reader that is always on
| Airplane mode and never connects to the internet. But I have
| no idea how many people go to that extreme (use a tablet only
| for reading and zero online connection).
| syntaxing wrote:
| Shit like this is why I went full Apple after using android for
| 10 years or so. You pay a premium for Apple products but at least
| you get the proper support and build quality. I have an iPhone 12
| Pro that's coming up on 3 years. I have zero desire to upgrade it
| and I have feeling it'll last at least another 3 years.
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(page generated 2023-08-04 23:02 UTC)