[HN Gopher] Painting the Eiffel Tower
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       Painting the Eiffel Tower
        
       Author : redbell
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2023-08-04 11:16 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.toureiffel.paris)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.toureiffel.paris)
        
       | lycos wrote:
       | I would've loved to see those early colors in person
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Or at least in photograph.
        
           | petepete wrote:
           | At least photographs of the Eiffel tower before 1985 can't
           | fall foul of their slightly obsessive copyright restrictions.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Just turn it to black&white, and then ask Color Diffusion to
           | colorize it for you
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | They should try bright pink.
       | 
       | Or paint it white, then use lighting to make it change colors.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | I'm surprised they have not installed LEDs on it to make it
         | whatever color they want
        
         | yoz-y wrote:
         | For the colours with light they already do it, only on
         | occasions though.
        
       | tmountain wrote:
       | A painting campaign lasts between 18 months and 3 years, and the
       | tower is repainted every 7 years. So, basically it's being
       | painted upwards of 35% of the time for longer campaigns. That's a
       | lot of maintenance!
        
         | p-e-w wrote:
         | A paint job takes up to 3 years today, yet the _entire tower_
         | (including painting) was built in 2 years, 140 years ago?!?
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | It wasn't open while it was being built, but it _is_ open
           | while being painted.
           | 
           | And I dare say they could paint it _much much faster_ if they
           | really needed to, but it would involve very large crew for a
           | short period of time.
           | 
           | Better for everyone involved if the work is basically steady
           | - then you can hire one group or company for a three year
           | stint, instead of hiring 5-10x for 6 months.
        
             | contravariant wrote:
             | Might even be better to delay it even further so you can
             | just keep painting indefinitely with a small crew.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | That's what SF doesa with the golden gate. Want to say it
               | gets repainted every 18 months or something?
        
             | hammock wrote:
             | I imagine you could just tape it, wrap it and then fumigate
             | it with paint. Would go much quicker.
             | 
             | Someone tell me why I'm wrong
        
               | whycome wrote:
               | > fumigate
               | 
               | I guess it'd be more like the electrostatic paint they do
               | for cars. Negatively charge your object and positively
               | charge your paint...
        
               | jagged-chisel wrote:
               | You'll miss lots of nooks and crannies because you can't
               | convince the air currents to blow in every conceivable
               | way to move paint around. You air movement apparatus will
               | take on much of the paint, probably causing it to
               | function in much less than an ideal manner. There are
               | challenges with keeping the paint wet while moving it
               | with air pressure.
               | 
               | You could probably get VC funding to solve these problems
               | and then you'd be onto something.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Depending on how paint "wears out" maybe the parts you
               | would miss are the parts that don't really need to be
               | repainted.
        
               | kulahan wrote:
               | I don't think there's any part of the structure that
               | doesn't need repainted, or rain/dust will get in and tear
               | it apart over decades.
        
               | gffrd wrote:
               | Where do you think "speed" sits on the stack-ranking of
               | priorities for Eiffel Tower repainting/surface
               | maintenance?
               | 
               | For a monument of its value, I would almost think
               | speed/lower cost would be seen as red flags.
        
               | franky47 wrote:
               | The obvious, much quicker way would be to drop the
               | required 60 tonnes of paint from Canadairs in a fly by.
               | /s
        
             | Karellen wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_Bridge#Maintenance
        
           | trvr wrote:
           | They also appear to be stripping the old paint during this
           | re-painting process.
        
           | contravariant wrote:
           | To be fair that would mean taking it apart, repainting and
           | rebuilding it would optimistically take 4 years, so painting
           | it in situ is still faster.
        
             | jameson71 wrote:
             | I think the question is why does it take longer to paint it
             | than it took to build it?
        
               | jccalhoun wrote:
               | The article says there are 50 painters. I'm sure there
               | were more than 50 people working to build it.
        
               | manarth wrote:
               | Did they build it then paint it? Or paint it (the
               | components, during fabrication), then build it, with
               | already-painted components?
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | They pained individual pieces before assembly but that
               | was included in the total construction time.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | that's the point of the question. of course this is much
               | faster than building then painting.
        
               | mattlondon wrote:
               | Because they probably didn't need to strip any old paint
               | off first.
               | 
               | I my experience of painting houses etc (limited I know),
               | the actual painting bit is the final 25-33% of the time.
               | The rest of it is making the rest of it _ready to be
               | painted_. So stripping off, preparing the surfaces,
               | making good any bad bits etc ... only then can you start
               | to paint it.
               | 
               | When they had fresh new metal to work with they could
               | probably just paint straight away with zero prep. It may
               | have even arrived at the site already primed. Plus it was
               | probably easier logistics too in terms of seeing which
               | bits were painted or not - if you are painting over the
               | same colour it is hard to know what you have done and
               | what you have not unless you are quite meticulous.
               | However if you have a good contrast you could just give
               | paintbrushes to 100 people and say "keep painting until
               | all the grey bits are red" or whatever and not worry
               | about the planning or tracking of which bits have been
               | done when - just keep going until everything is red or
               | whatever.
        
               | brewtide wrote:
               | As a housepainter, this is probably the best reasoning
               | and where my mind immediately jumped to. The prep work in
               | painting is as you said the majority of the work -- many
               | many many hours spent first slowly destroying something
               | further, then bringing a surface back to the state where,
               | finally, you get to make it all one solid color of
               | protection, once again.
               | 
               | Generally the largest difference in a homeowner painted
               | themselves vs a professional painter -- the amount of
               | prep work required can be astronomical and absolutely
               | mind numbing but without it, one will never end up with
               | the final very nice and long(er) lasting result.
               | 
               | Once again, you get back what you put in!
        
               | guhidalg wrote:
               | This guy paints.
               | 
               | Seriously though, if you use house drywall painting over
               | existing paint as an example, the actual "paint on
               | surface" step really is short. In my most recent paint
               | adventure the procedure was:
               | 
               | o move furniture
               | 
               | o lay down canvas
               | 
               | o tape
               | 
               | o sand
               | 
               | o [prime, depends on base and final color]
               | 
               | o paint
               | 
               | o wait to dry
               | 
               | o sand
               | 
               | o paint
               | 
               | o undo the coverings.
               | 
               | o enjoy.
               | 
               | It is very difficult to get all that done in one day, but
               | I see new house interiors get basically painted in one-
               | two day by a crew of like 6 guys, followed by an unending
               | series of touch-ups where the painters did a half-assed
               | job on trim, ceilings, and large featureless wall
               | sections where it's difficult to see where paint is
               | lacking.
               | 
               | IME Painting is boring and very easy to get wrong so I
               | have respect for painters that patiently do the job right
               | the first time.
        
               | mauvehaus wrote:
               | Painting a room is one of those weird jobs that takes a
               | lot of concentration (especially cutting in), and very
               | little thought. I find it goes better with a beer in one
               | hand. Given that basically every paint can opener on the
               | planet is also a bottle opener, I suspect that I'm not
               | the only one.
        
           | DougBTX wrote:
           | The numbers measure different things, so hard to compare. One
           | of the biggest sources of variation listed is the weather,
           | while the first paint was done in a workshop (presumably
           | where there is no influence from the weather).
           | 
           | Also, a painting campaign also includes:
           | 
           | > ... a preparatory stage to search for the most corroded
           | areas ... these areas are then stripped, and a first coat of
           | an anti-rust primer is applied
           | 
           | ...presumably there was no corrosion just after the parts
           | were originally made.
        
             | stephen_g wrote:
             | For sure on corrosion/rust - I'm experiencing this on a
             | very small scale now - I'm working on repainting my old
             | barbecue, it's incredible how much time it takes to strip,
             | apply rust remover, clean, fill, sand, prime and repaint
             | the metal parts. Easily 5 to 10 times as much effort and
             | time than it would take to paint fresh parts.
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | On the other hand, building it took a lot more manyears than
           | one round of repainting.
        
           | soared wrote:
           | Because they're using very old methods. We have much more
           | modern ways to paint metal that aren't being used. They could
           | use electrostatic painting and finish the thing in a day if
           | they really wanted.
           | 
           | https://www.ghasterpaintinginc.com/blog/what-
           | electrostatic-p....
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | foobarfoox2 wrote:
           | Doing this with fewer employees over a longer period of time
           | may just be more efficient. Surely they could speed it up by
           | throwing more money at it, but does that help with anything?
        
           | bfeynman wrote:
           | as an analogy, consider that renovating often is much more
           | difficult and complex than new construction. As you build up
           | you're making some irreversible moves, i.e. you build a door
           | or a set of trusses, now you can't move a large piece through
           | it anymore.
        
         | yttribium wrote:
         | Similar maintenance schedule to large steel naval vessels. Rust
         | never sleeps.
        
         | danjc wrote:
         | It's like rolling updates. You don't want to take the whole
         | cluster offline while you upgrade. reply
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | They should probably just rebuild it in cor-ten and be done
         | with it.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel
        
         | ihaveajob wrote:
         | The Golden Gate Bridge is constantly being painted. The
         | conditions are harsher, I suppose.
         | https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/is-the-golden-gate-bridg...
        
           | helsinkiandrew wrote:
           | I thought this was a fact of all famous and suitably large
           | bridges like the Sydney harbour and Forth bridges. Because
           | painting doesn't effect the running of the bridge much they
           | just hire enough painters that gets the bridge painted in
           | time and then start again. Apparently the Forth bridge now
           | uses a new paint that means it doesn't need to be painted for
           | 20 years though
        
           | YZF wrote:
           | Seeing the signs near the Golden Gate Bridge about how it's
           | painted (EDIT: like a decade ago) made me think that it'd be
           | a good idea to use drones to paint it. I explored that idea a
           | bit deeper but it never went anywhere. There are/were some
           | attempts at painting drones. I still think it'd be cool and
           | could be made to work ;)
        
             | ihaveajob wrote:
             | I suppose the risk of pollution would be too high, but it'd
             | make for a cool demo.
             | 
             | Once on a bike ride, I met a guy who worked painting the
             | GGB. He said he was about 50, but look 65, so it seemed
             | plausible. He wasn't wearing a helmet even on descents,
             | which I asked him about, and his answer was that he spends
             | all day in a harness with hard helmet, so the last thing he
             | wanted was more helmet time in the weekend.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | twelve40 wrote:
       | one lifehack for me was to skip the claustrophobic packed
       | elevator and to go on foot, at least on the way down. Ran into
       | almost no people, much closer experience of the tower.
        
       | ricardo81 wrote:
       | Reminds me anecdotally, at least in local folklore- the Forth
       | Road Bridge near Edinburgh. One man would paint it and as soon as
       | he's finished, he had to start again due to the size of it.
       | 
       | Engineering marvels, but maintenance required.
        
       | erickhill wrote:
       | I have a recurring nightmare where I'm painting the top of the
       | Seattle Space Needle. I'm tethered to the roof with a belt and
       | rope. I have a paint roller on a long stick about the length of a
       | broom. I have to walk to the edge of the top of the saucer, and
       | every dang time I accidentally drop the stick, which falls over
       | the edge. Sometimes a seagull flies close to me startling me, or
       | a stiff wind, or just a fumbling of my hands. Fearing for the
       | safety of the families down below I scramble to try and snatch it
       | and lose my balance and footing and go over the edge.
       | 
       | I'm tethered to the roof so I don't plunge to the ground. But I'm
       | violently swinging hundreds of feet in mid-air unable to get back
       | up. It's always the same. And I can feel the wind, my hands
       | sweating, my feet tingling and my heart beating beyond belief.
       | Usually when I start to fall over the edge I wake up. Sometimes I
       | dangle for a second or two as I dizzily flip around hearing
       | muffled screams from far below.
       | 
       | I can't imagine being one of the people forced to paint the
       | Eiffel Tower, or Golden Gate Bridge - whatever. The thought of it
       | makes me ill.
        
         | johnmaguire wrote:
         | Forced to paint? Do they use prison labor or something?
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | Hey, Eiffel tower: if it's illegal to photograph you, taking a
       | photograph slower by using human hands and paint using the you as
       | canvas should be just as illegal. Stop trying to have your cake
       | and eat it, too, Paris has a history of cake-related incidents
       | that apply here.
        
         | johnmaguire wrote:
         | To say nothing of your argument around painting the Eiffel
         | Tower (which I assume you meant in a different sense than the
         | article...)
         | 
         | It has been legal to photograph the Eiffel Tower since 1993
         | (its copyright expired.) It is legal to take photographs of the
         | Eiffel Tower's light show since Oct 2016 ("freedom of
         | panorama") unless used for commercial purposes.
        
       | jabl wrote:
       | Wonder what kind of paints they use nowadays? Presumably ye olde
       | lead oxide paints are verboten.
       | 
       | While I'm no expert on this topic, it seems zinc epoxy primer +
       | polysiloxane topcoat is the state of the art these days for
       | industrial / marine steel coating applications.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | Surely you mean lead oxide paints are _interdite_ >.<
        
       | Kuinox wrote:
       | French newspaper critized the current company managing the Eiffel
       | Tower, saying they botched maintenance job:
       | https://www.marianne.net/societe/mal-en-point-rouillee-la-to...
        
         | achr2 wrote:
         | Marianne est peut-etre pas la meilleure source..
        
           | jylam wrote:
           | Pourquoi ?
        
             | tasogare wrote:
             | [dead]
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | The Eiffel-inspired tower in Tokyo is painted orange to comply
       | with air safety regulations [1]. The color always looked odd to
       | me but I guess it's not so different from the Eiffel in the past.
       | 
       | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Tower
        
       | redbell wrote:
       | So basically, the Eiffel Tower has been painted nearly twenty
       | times. It's been shades of red, yellow, brown, and grey, and has
       | never been painted black.. yet I always had the impression of it
       | being black.
        
         | scbrg wrote:
         | _I see a Tower and I want to paint it black..._
         | 
         | I've never thought of it black, and I'm a bit at loss as how
         | someone could do so. Look, for instance, at the picture from
         | the associated Wikipedia article. Does that strike you as
         | _black_?
         | 
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Tour_Eif...
        
           | saalweachter wrote:
           | It's probably souvenir tchotchkes, eg:
           | https://www.amazon.com/Eiffel-Tower-Statue/dp/B072KLPVG5/
        
             | Muskwalker wrote:
             | Lots of black-and-white pictures, lots of pictures in
             | silhouette.
             | 
             | Pictures of the tower can also have a lot of... texture? If
             | you don't know you're looking at "brown with shadows" you
             | might think you're looking at "black with highlights."
        
           | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
           | In Person it really looks like dark gray. None of the
           | pictures I took last time I was there look anything like the
           | picture linked. They show a very dark gray tower.
        
             | stephen_g wrote:
             | Depends on the light, in the ones I have from April it
             | looks quite brown but in my pics from cloudier days it does
             | look a bit more of a brown-grey colour.
        
       | xutopia wrote:
       | I once read that it took 7 tons of paint for a single coat.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | I read just now, from the article, that it takes 60 tons of
         | paint total.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-04 23:02 UTC)