[HN Gopher] Mozilla VPN: CVE-2023-4104: vpndaemon wrongly implem...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mozilla VPN: CVE-2023-4104: vpndaemon wrongly implements Polkit
       authentication
        
       Author : rkta
       Score  : 240 points
       Date   : 2023-08-04 08:25 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.openwall.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.openwall.com)
        
       | p-e-w wrote:
       | > We publish this report today, because the maximum embargo
       | period of 90 days we offer has been exceeded. Most of the issues
       | mentioned in this report are currently not addressed by upstream,
       | as is outlined in more detail below.
       | 
       | > [...]
       | 
       | > 2023-05-04: We privately shared the findings with
       | security@...illa.org, offering coordinated disclosure according
       | to the openSUSE disclosure policy.
       | 
       | > Until 2023-06-12: There has been a lack of communication by
       | upstream. Relevant questions about the disclosure process
       | remained unanswered, there was no formal reply to our report and
       | no wishes have been expressed about how to continue the
       | coordinated disclosure, or what the next steps would be.
       | 
       | > 2023-06-12: We learned that the embargo over this issue was
       | violated by upstream via a GitHub PR [3] and, inspired by that,
       | our community packager followed suit via another GitHub PR [5].
       | 
       | What a complete clusterfuck. It's unbelievable that in 2023, a
       | company of Mozilla's stature appears to have no proper processes
       | in place for handling serious security vulnerabilities even when
       | they are being reported to them (for free!) by cooperative third
       | parties.
       | 
       | This taints the image of the entire product in my view.
        
         | mcpackieh wrote:
         | This is what happens when lawyer/MBA executives fire technical
         | workers to take those salaries for themselves. Mozilla, like
         | fish, is rotting from the head.
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | In my eyes, at least, Mozilla has been tainted since the Pocket
         | fiasco, if not before. That's when they made it obvious they'd
         | sell their users off for a buck.
        
           | memefrog wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | inferiorhuman wrote:
             | You're preaching support and tolerance for a man who used
             | his money to oppose civil rights for people he disliked.
             | IOW paradox of tolerance. You've got to draw the line
             | somewhere and the right to marry is as good a place as any.
             | 
             | While _you_ might not have a problem with Eich 's behavior,
             | he was working to marginalize other folks that worked at
             | Mozilla. There's no way he could've actually been an
             | effective leader. Full stop.
        
               | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
               | Cool... So if eich was in the wrong, then ipso facto,
               | Mozilla did a good thing kicking him out? If that is the
               | case, why are people lapping to brave as if its the next
               | best thing?
               | 
               | Brave has this, brave has that.
               | 
               | Brave is chromium. It is helping google cement its
               | dominant position. If brave wanted to "help" the internet
               | be free, they could have easily forked Firefox or
               | safari/WebKit? even but no. They decided the least work
               | high margin work of skinning chromium. And no. Brave is
               | not a fork. They are not a hard fork, soft fork maybe but
               | definitely helps count chromium numbers.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | I see Brave doing a lot of advertising and PR, not
               | organic switching.
        
               | memefrog wrote:
               | You cannot simply declare your every worldly desire to be
               | a "civil right". You don't have a civil right to change
               | the meanings of words.
        
               | woodruffw wrote:
               | I don't think there's a point in stretching the author's
               | claim here: marriage between competent adults is about as
               | firmly within the "civil right" category as anything can
               | be.
        
               | p-e-w wrote:
               | That includes polygamy of course, right? I mean, if all
               | people involved are competent, consenting adults, why
               | _wouldn 't_ that be a civil right? Do you agree? Or is
               | that one of those "Let me in, then close the door" type
               | of issues?
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Polygamy is a tough one because historically it has been
               | strongly associated with certain fringe sects that are
               | heavily male dominated, and the women are treated more
               | like household servants than wives. Old school "it isn't
               | rape if we're married" types. The women aren't allow
               | jobs, divorce, or personal finances.
               | 
               | Actual, honest to goodness, full-freedom and consent
               | polygamy I personally have zero issue with. Live and let
               | live, as long as you aren't tell me how to live MY life.
        
               | p-e-w wrote:
               | So marriage is a civil right, except when people have a
               | gut feeling that it's problematic and throw around "think
               | of the X!" moral panic tantrums.
               | 
               | This attitude seems to define civil rights today, from
               | drug prohibition to sexual liberty. Ironically, it very
               | closely resembles how conservative moralism operates and
               | has always operated.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Not at all what I said. I'm done with your bad faith.
               | Good day.
               | 
               | It's hardly a gut feeling, it's extremely well
               | documented.
               | 
               | https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/07/arizona-
               | poly...
               | 
               | https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/04/10/comm
               | ent...
               | 
               | https://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-sect12may12-story.html
               | 
               | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-member-of-polygamist-
               | sect-mo...
               | 
               | https://peacefulsocieties.uncg.edu/2011/03/17/polygamist-
               | mor...
        
               | woodruffw wrote:
               | I'll reframe this for you: in a liberal society, we
               | default to open social policies rather than closed ones.
               | There's no moral or principled legal basis for the civil
               | right of marriage being extended to only straight
               | couples.
               | 
               | Restricting polygamy _does_ have a principled legal
               | basis: it 's _historically_ associated with subjugation,
               | and you don 't have a civil right to subjugate others. If
               | and when that association vanishes (i.e., society is
               | convinced that all parties are able to competently
               | consent), then there will be no legal basis for excluding
               | them from the civil right of marriage. Your "ick"
               | response is not a valid basis.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | You seem to be conflating the legal definition of
               | marriage with a christian definition of marriage. While
               | both are malleable, it's well within the scope of
               | government to alter legal terms. In fact that's precisely
               | what Eich was trying to do in the first place.
        
               | p-e-w wrote:
               | If Eich was legally trying to change legal terms using
               | legal means, then what is the problem?
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Because we like gay marriage, duh.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | I was not the one making a claim that legal terms are
               | immutable. My argument is that by working to deny civil
               | rights to a subset of what would become his employees he
               | is incapable of leading Mozilla.
        
               | brigandish wrote:
               | I fail to see how that fits the paradox of tolerance.
               | Popper's proposal was that those we should deem
               | _intolerant_ to the point where the rest of us should not
               | tolerate them are:
               | 
               | - intolerant to the point they do not engage in debate
               | and the political process, or prevent others from doing
               | so
               | 
               | - urge or use violence instead of debate and the
               | political process
               | 
               | Eich made a donation to a political campaign that, to the
               | best of my knowledge, engaged in debate and the political
               | process and did not use violence, and I'm pretty sure
               | someone would've brought it up by now if it had.
        
               | xvector wrote:
               | It's irrelevant. What was his approach to software?
               | That's what matters. Clearly his removal has not boded
               | well for the company.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | As a CEO his ability to lead the people that work for him
               | is entirely relevant.
        
             | joshstrange wrote:
             | > traditional free software values (like respect for
             | others' beliefs, freedom of conscience)
             | 
             | A. I'm not sure such a state ever existed in open source,
             | this feels very "Make open source great again", pining for
             | a time that never was
             | 
             | B. Nothing says "respecting others' beliefs" like trying to
             | prevent others from marrying.
             | 
             | Mozilla was on the downslope long before Brendan and given
             | what he did afterwards (Brave) it's clear he would only
             | accelerated Mozilla's demise. I guess we all missed out on
             | FireCoin or whatever other scam he would have run.
        
               | memefrog wrote:
               | ESR used to be a widely respected figure in open source.
               | Open source has pretty obviously become much less
               | politically tolerant over time.
        
             | Dalewyn wrote:
             | >the only view you are allowed is the one approved by
             | people that spend their lives on Twitter.
             | 
             | I'm reasonably sure most of those people moved to Mastodon.
        
             | WhyNotHugo wrote:
             | > [...] he was appointed chief executive officer, but
             | resigned shortly after his appointment due to pressure over
             | his firm opposition to same-sex marriage.
             | 
             | Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
        
               | memefrog wrote:
               | Over his donation to a (very) popular political campaign
               | in California.
               | 
               | Recall that Obama was elected in the same year as Eich's
               | donation on a platform that marriage is defined to be
               | between a man and a woman, and that the proposition in
               | question passed with 52% support in California, one of
               | the most socially liberal states in the USA.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | What a distortion do the facts. It passed because people
               | like Eich spent a ton on advertising.
               | 
               | It waa also extraordinarily unpopular with many folks.
               | 
               | PS: Many state GOP platforms, today, have anti-gay
               | marriage in them.
        
               | yoasif_ wrote:
               | People don't like Obama either. The virtue signalling by
               | proxy is lame, no?
        
             | monooso wrote:
             | Given how much flak Brave (and by extension Eich) gets on
             | HN, it's somewhat ironic that you identify his departure as
             | the moment when Mozilla abandoned its traditional values.
        
               | memefrog wrote:
               | HN is obviously, by its very nature, representative
               | primarily of silicon valley.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Much less so than 10 years ago, when 2/3rds of the posts
               | were about either combination itself or companies taking
               | part in the accelerator.
               | 
               | This is VASTKY more popular and diverse now.
        
               | p-e-w wrote:
               | Diverse in nationalities and backgrounds, yes. Diverse in
               | viewpoints, not so much.
               | 
               | The Overton window is quite narrow on HN, and I have the
               | distinct impression it is narrowing further. Though I do
               | admit that _within_ that window, discourse is very
               | lively, to the extent that a casual observer can easily
               | be fooled into believing this is a place for free
               | exchange of ideas.
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | > This is VASTKY more popular and diverse now.
               | 
               | How do you measure diversity on HN?
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Looking at the amount of traffic coming from Non-US IPs
               | would be a start. It was incredibly US centric back in
               | the day.
        
             | jamespo wrote:
             | thanks memefrog
        
               | mike_hock wrote:
               | Based frog.
        
           | p-e-w wrote:
           | Pocket is crapware, and I don't want it in my browser, and
           | the way they forced it upon me left a bad aftertaste, but I
           | still don't see how it constitutes "selling out their users".
           | Pocket is actually owned by Mozilla. It's not like the data
           | is going elsewhere or something.
        
             | anonymous_sorry wrote:
             | I was a Pocket user from before they were bought, so I
             | wouldn't call it crapware personally.
             | 
             | Isn't it just a way to sync a reading list across browsers,
             | and have those pages pre-cached on a mobile device for
             | reading when you have no connection?
             | 
             | I'm interested in what people find objectionable about it.
             | 
             | The strongest argument I've heard is that it's not core
             | browser functionality, it was fine before Mozilla bought
             | them, and therefore it's just a distraction/bloat for
             | Firefox. Which is definitely arguable, but probably not a
             | reason to write off the biggest independent browser.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | As a Firefox appreciator, it's just not something I ever
               | really wanted to use and it got a pretty prominent place
               | in the UI when it came out. Has similar vibes to when
               | windows added the weather forecast to the awesome bar.
               | 
               | Imo the people making a big deal out of it are using it
               | to justify why they're OK sticking with chrome (best
               | case), or have a partisan political reason to hate
               | Mozilla because of their ESG / DEI positions (ughhhhhh)
        
               | AshamedCaptain wrote:
               | I was a Pocket user basically since it launched (I was
               | looking for an AvantGo replacement, so imagine that), and
               | I still don't understand Mozilla's purchase or very
               | heavy-handed advertisement of it.
        
               | internetter wrote:
               | I'm bothered that it's still not open source, despite
               | promises when it was first announced (it's been 6 years!)
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | > Isn't it just a way to sync a reading list across
               | browsers, and have those pages pre-cached on a mobile
               | device for reading when you have no connection?
               | 
               | Basically, and I've been using it for that since before
               | the acquisition, although recently the Android version
               | had removed the option to cache full versions (only
               | reader mode remains), which has enough of an impact on my
               | usage that I'm planning to migrate away.
               | 
               | Still, there's a lot of things that seem very misaligned
               | with Mozilla's mission: the huge dark-pattern tracking
               | banner, the non-open-source nature, the huge dark-pattern
               | tracking banner, the default homepage with weird US-
               | politics-related recommendations that has replaced the
               | actual list, the huge dark-pattern tracking banner, the
               | recommended links inserted at the end of each article as
               | an engagement-driven manipulation, and have I mentioned
               | the huge dark-pattern tracking banner with the
               | accompanying tracking. This would be an expected amount
               | of evil assholery from a random SV startup, but from
               | Mozilla it does feel like a point to add to the betrayal
               | tally (hello EME/Widevine),
        
             | Knee_Pain wrote:
             | The funny thing is that even though it's a Mozilla product
             | now and even though it's somehow "integrated" in the
             | browser, I still have to log into it separately regardless
             | of the fact that I am already logged with with Firefox Sync
        
               | p-e-w wrote:
               | And that's more than _six years_ after the acquisition.
               | This was very poorly handled for sure.
        
               | AshamedCaptain wrote:
               | My wild guess is that they could not do a SSO with Pocket
               | and Firefox Sync until they got rid of all the other
               | authentication providers/methods that Pocket supported, a
               | change which people like me would complain about.
        
               | benterix wrote:
               | > My wild guess is that they could not do a SSO with
               | Pocket and Firefox Sync until they got rid of all the
               | other authentication providers/methods that Pocket
               | supported
               | 
               | Why? Technically, it shouldn't be impossible - one
               | shouldn't exclude the other.
        
               | mariusor wrote:
               | JavaScript that the Kobo can't execute for example. The
               | browser/web view on Kobos is very very limited.
        
               | internetter wrote:
               | Actually as a kobo owner I've always wondered what
               | JavaScript it _can_ execute, what styles it can render,
               | ect. Always seemed wildly inconsistent. Any idea?
        
               | mariusor wrote:
               | I suspect that very little, if any can be executed. No
               | hard data nor first hand knowledge on that though.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | mariusor wrote:
               | Funny that you mentioned that, they're switching quite
               | soon: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/pocket-
               | firefox-account-...
        
               | __jonas wrote:
               | I was using Pocket when they announced the start of the
               | transition a while back and their flow to migrate
               | bookmarks to the Firefox account just didn't work, I
               | ended up with an empty account - maybe because I was
               | using a different email address for my Firefox account
               | than for my Pocket account but it made me stop using
               | Pocket altogether, really annoying.
        
           | twelvechairs wrote:
           | What's the alternative though? All the others have already
           | sold their users off ...
        
             | memefrog wrote:
             | The alternative is Mozilla not doing so.
        
             | Espionage724 wrote:
             | You either use Firefox, Edge (fork of Chrome), or Chrome
             | today. Serious companies and the average person only use
             | Chrome or Edge. Anyone serious about privacy is using Tor.
             | Hipsters acting like they're serious about privacy are
             | compiling Firefox or Chromium from source.
             | 
             | "Selling users off" only matters to anyone trying to push
             | some unheard of and less-secure forks of Chrome or Firefox.
             | Nobody notable code-reviews theses browsers, you're at the
             | mercy at some random person or small group to play catch-up
             | with upstream browsers, and you're ultimately still locked
             | into somebody else's decisions.
             | 
             | I use Firefox because double-clicking code one-liners from
             | my wiki doesn't add a newline when pasted into Terminals on
             | Linux, which I use on desktop for the challenge of it.
             | Windows Terminal on Windows doesn't have this issue from
             | any browser and I'm free to use Edge or Chrome there.
        
             | reitanqild wrote:
             | I use LibreWolf.
             | 
             | Free, up to date and does not send neither money nor data
             | to Mozilla.
             | 
             | But personally I don't care so much about privacy
             | extremism:
             | 
             | The day another more liberal organization forks it again,
             | adds Google search for some easy cash and start fixing the
             | extension API etc I am probably going to recommend that.
             | 
             | I already dial back some extreme measure(s), nuking my
             | sessions whenever I close the browser comes to mind.
             | 
             | Also of course I will not use Google myself, but it seems
             | to be the way for browser developers to make a living so
             | I'll allow whoever takes care of the future of Firefox to
             | do the same.
        
               | smarx007 wrote:
               | > If you own an Apple Silicon powered MacBook the
               | relative builds are refered to as aarch64, they are
               | cross-compiled and we did not test them before release.
               | 
               | > It is possible that Apple Silicon users see their
               | recently downloaded LibreWolf flagged as broken or unsafe
               | by the OS. This happens because we do not notarize the
               | macOS version of the browser: we don't have a paid Apple
               | Developer license and we don't want to support this
               | signing mechanism that is put behind a paywall without
               | providing significant gains.
               | 
               | Eeerm... no, thank you.
               | 
               | Will reconsider if it appears in openSUSE Tumbleweed
               | repos after passing a security review from the openSUSE
               | team ;)
        
             | MikusR wrote:
             | It's worse than selling users off. Pocket was integrated
             | for free and Mozilla later bought Pocket. In essence
             | Mozilla paid to sell it's users. (And I liked "read it
             | later" the extension that saved an offline copy of the
             | website. And was later renamed Pocket and removed that
             | ability).
             | 
             | Same with that hidden spyware ad/extension (distributed
             | using channels reserved for delivering 0day bugfixes).
             | Mozilla shit on it's users without even getting paid for
             | it.
        
               | yoasif_ wrote:
               | > It's worse than selling users off. Pocket was
               | integrated for free and Mozilla later bought Pocket. In
               | essence Mozilla paid to sell it's users.
               | 
               | Maybe I have reading comprehension issues, because it
               | seems to me like it isn't worse than selling users off.
               | Mozilla sold its users... to itself. That's really bad,
               | right?
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | They're all effectively the same on that point, so I use
             | the one who's interface I prefer, and which performs best
             | on my hardware. Firefox is neither.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | I cannot believe how much Hacker News equivocates:
               | 
               | A browser made by an Ad Tech company that aims to lock
               | down and control the web.
               | 
               | And a browser made by a nonprofit that occasionally makes
               | a minor mistep.
               | 
               | You _cannot_ seriously compare the remote attestation
               | DRM, manifest v3 changes, to, what ? the Mr. Robot ad
               | that was tacky? the pocket integration that 's pointless
               | and annoying but otherwise harmless?
               | 
               | Seriously, y'alls double standards are insane and focuses
               | so much towards how bad it was that Brendan Eich got
               | kicked out that it comes off as extremely political
        
               | account42 wrote:
               | Firefox is NOT made by a nonprofit, that's the problem.
               | It's made by a for profit corporation using the shell of
               | a noprofit to claim legitimacy. This for proffit Mozilla
               | Corp is primarily funded by an ad tech company and has
               | itself dabbled in ads multiple times, contrary to the
               | interests of the userbase that the nonprofit should be
               | looking out for. These aren't minor misteps but repeated
               | deliberate decisions to ignore user preferences.
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | The Mozilla Corporation is a for profit company
               | completely owned by the nonprofit the Mozilla Foundation.
               | Originally there was just the nonprofit, but that caused
               | tax issues with the money generated from the search deal,
               | and after paying a few million to the IRS they switched
               | to the current setup.
               | 
               | I don't think it's fair to claim the nonprofit side only
               | exists to "claim legitimacy." All of their revenue goes
               | back into the corporation or the foundation.
        
               | jlokier wrote:
               | I agree with boomboomsubban above.
               | 
               | This a very common arrangement used by charities to
               | enable a commercial process that funds the charity. For
               | example, high street charity shops may be part of the
               | commercial sub-entity so that their accounts are
               | processed like a normal company, but 100% of their
               | profits become donations to fund the parent charity's
               | activities, called the charitable purpose(s).
               | 
               | If they didn't separate into a parent charity with a
               | commercial sub-entity, all of the activities of the sub-
               | entity would be subject to charity auditing, accounting
               | and purpose rules, which in practice would make it
               | difficult to run a shop competitively, or alternatively
               | the parent could not have charity status and the shop
               | profit would be subject to tax instead of all being
               | directed to the audited, charitable purpose(s).
               | 
               | In Mozilla's case, if it was a tax-exempt non-profit
               | _without_ a commercial sub-entity giving 100% of profits
               | to its parent, it would not be able to take Google
               | funding as a trade in exchange for making Google the
               | default search engine without losing its tax-exempt
               | status, and it might not be able to pay its software
               | engineers a competitive market rate, even if it needs to
               | do that to compete. It would be able to take donations
               | (not as a trade in exchange for something, just as a
               | donation), but that wouldn 't be enough to develop a
               | competitive browser.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Look - I cant claim that there weren't repeated and
               | deliberate bad decisions, and I can't claim that being
               | funded mainly by google gives the best incentives.
               | 
               | But it is really a nonprofit in that (like the sibling
               | says) the corp is fully owned by a nonprofit, not public
               | shareholders.
               | 
               | And its not like google doesn't get anything out of their
               | $. They get set as the default engine. Apple gets paid
               | hundreds of billions by google for this. So its not like
               | Google is paying Firefox for control over it's
               | development.
               | 
               | Like, seriously, they're not perfect but its a pretty
               | wide jump in behavior between it and chrome
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Non-profit status and being publicly traded are
               | orthogonal. There are tons of for-profit companies that
               | aren't publicly traded.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | the point is - the corporation is fully owned and
               | controlled by a nonprofit so it is essentially a part of
               | the nonprofit. if you don't see this as a meaningful
               | difference, I don't know how to help ya.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | I honestly don't give an fuck about drm or attestatuon.
               | There are only so many things one can find time to care
               | about, and neither makes my list.
        
               | alyandon wrote:
               | I already get pop ups from my insurance company (a major
               | one I might add) that FF is not a supported browser when
               | I log into their website. I assume that one day I'll be
               | told to use Edge or Chrome and not allowed to log in at
               | all.
               | 
               | I'm not a privacy fanatic and I don't really care if my
               | browser supports proprietary DRM so that I'm able to
               | watch shows on streaming platforms. However, I see a lot
               | of potential for the remote attestation mechanism
               | proposed by Google to give companies an easy way to
               | enforce "We support this set of browsers on this set of
               | operating systems" and effectively cut off support for
               | Linux and browsers that aren't popular Chromium variants.
               | That doesn't mean I can't go and switch companies but
               | that requires a lot of effort on my part to do so.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Yeah, I'd understand not caring. That's a pretty common
               | and reasonable take, though I'd hope a tech website like
               | this would be more pro-privacy.
               | 
               | But actively caring about browser companies, and choosing
               | Chrome because Mozilla "sold out" when they added pocket
               | is a pretty wild take imo.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Privacy... eh. I care... somewhat. I'll do things I
               | personally consider reasonable, but I think that, say,
               | the people who completely clear browser state every 5
               | minutes are barmy (and also probably much more exposed
               | than they think they are - the very act of trying to not
               | Leak anything makes them stand out, if anything).
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Yeah that's a pretty reasonable take tbh. I do all that,
               | but I'm fully aware its silly and probably
               | counterproductive.
               | 
               | & hey, if you prefer Chrome because you find it more
               | usable or performant that's a perfectly good reason
               | 
               | I'm mostly upset at the people in this thread (presumably
               | not you) who seem to be against Firefox for ideological
               | reasons which seems completely backwards to me
        
               | shrimp_emoji wrote:
               | Pretty reasonable to support the erosion of privacy and
               | foster a "I have nothing to hide, and if you act like you
               | do you're probably guilty lmao" culture along with an
               | Orwellian monopolistic grip on the foremost medium of
               | information exchange of this and probably the next
               | century because of your personal apathy. :)
               | #justreasonablethings
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Hey, I'm pretty big into privacy myself. Firefox all the
               | way, 100%. Totally feel you that it's awful.
               | 
               | As much as I'd love it though, I don't think it's
               | reasonably to expect everyone else to care as much as we
               | do. There's plenty of other issues that matter too that
               | I'm glad other people are out there caring about on my
               | behalf. Eg. I know being vegan is better but its a big
               | annoying change and I haven't been able to do it yet.
               | 
               | I'm mostly concerned with all the rhetroic here that's
               | trying to paint firefox as unsympathetic when they are
               | clearly the people fighting on our side. If you don't
               | personally care enough to switch to FF, or use Graphene
               | OS, or run Linux etc. I get that, but pleeease don't also
               | try to discourage other people too, y'know?
               | 
               | (& ofc the real solution is through policy and getting an
               | American version of GDPR/California Privacy act, getting
               | courts to stop the NSA etc. Being preachy online is
               | counterproductive to getting broad support and the
               | mission overall imo)
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | > What a complete clusterfuck. It's unbelievable that in 2023,
         | a company of Mozilla's stature appears to have no proper
         | processes in place for handling serious security
         | vulnerabilities even when they are being reported to them (for
         | free!) by cooperative third parties.
         | 
         | While I agree with your sentiment here, it's not exceptionnal
         | at all and I've seen security researcher complaining about the
         | same thing comming from at least Intel, Cisco and Google[1]!
         | And I wouldn't be suprised if you could find example if that
         | regarding Apple and Microsoft as well.
         | 
         | [1] and for Google it was just one month ago:
         | https://matan-h.com/google-has-a-secret-browser-hidden-insid...
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | > _> 2023-06-12: We learned that the embargo over this issue
         | was violated by upstream via a GitHub PR [3]_
         | 
         | To add further context, that PR violating the embargo:
         | 
         | - removes authentication entirely instead of fixing it
         | 
         | - discusses it as if they've discovered the CVE independently,
         | even though it had seemingly been reported to them just 1 month
         | prior. It may be that they did discover it independently, but
         | the timing seems odd for a bug that existed for 3 years.
         | 
         | - discusses it in an extremely casual way, as if the vuln is
         | not severe. Honestly I don't know enough about the vectors here
         | to know what type of CVSS it might end up with.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Edit: Based on @AAchen's HN comment, it seems compromise
         | requires local shell, so not an incredibly high severity it
         | would seem. Still curious to see what NVD come out with.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Dayshine wrote:
           | > Still curious to see what NVD come out with
           | 
           | 9.8
           | 
           | It's always 9.8.
           | 
           | To be fair, this is an application, so the score might be
           | more grounded in reality. The CVEs I encounter as a developer
           | are always insane and generally massive overreach from
           | security to product design. It's not a vulnerability against
           | all downstream libraries and applications that using some
           | obviously unsafe C++ call might cause a DoS due to poor
           | performance.
        
             | lucideer wrote:
             | CVSS is a poor metric because (by its own definition /
             | admission) its got a very narrow intent: it doesn't really
             | deal with exploitability in any meaningful way (like e.g.
             | the shell access required here). There is a lot of ongoing
             | discourse on its limitations, but its all in relatively
             | early stages & imo its better to have something than
             | nothing (especially when the maintainers of that
             | "something" are aware of its limitations & actively working
             | on better processes).
             | 
             | If you have 10 security bugs, 3 are genuinely high severity
             | and 9 get assigned high severity by NVD, then at least
             | you've managed to deprioritise one of them. It's something
             | (unironiccally).
             | 
             | This is a pretty decent overview
             | https://www.first.org/epss/model
        
               | er4hn wrote:
               | CVSS is really just used to stack-rank issues and decide
               | how to handle them. Orgs get a list of CVEs, they sort
               | them by score to decide which ones to handle first. From
               | there someone removed from the actual process comes up
               | with deadlines such as "All critical issues, defined as
               | 9.0 or above, must be handled in 30 days." If they are
               | reasonable there is additional language around "or best
               | efforts must be made to resolve or mitigate the issue."
               | If not, gghfdd.
               | 
               | On a side note, CVSS v4.0 arrived around 2023-01 and is..
               | maybe(?) better: https://www.first.org/cvss/v4-0/
        
               | paulddraper wrote:
               | Okay so almost useless, not entirely useless
        
             | arghwhat wrote:
             | NVD scores and bug classifications are completely useless,
             | as they are often entirely misclassified. My favorite being
             | that they slap the "network" attack vector on things which
             | are not at all network related or exploitable.
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | >an openSUSE community packager wanted to add the Mozilla VPN
       | client [1] to openSUSE Tumbleweed, which required a review [2] by
       | the SUSE security team, as it contains a privileged D-Bus service
       | running as root and a Polkit policy.
       | 
       | and this is why I tell everyone who wants to run a rolling
       | release distro to go with Opensuse rather than distros where
       | people just install random packages from community repositories.
       | They are so underrated given the scrutiny they put into their
       | packaging and build process.
        
       | WhyNotHugo wrote:
       | These are some nasty implementation bugs, but honestly, there are
       | some way more serious design issues at hand here.
       | 
       | A user-configured VPN should not run as root and affect
       | networking for the entire system; the whole VPN process should
       | run in its own network namespace with no more privileges beyond
       | those of the user activating it. Processes that need to use the
       | VPN (rather than clearnet) should be attached to that same
       | network namespace. If necessary, you can even avoid attaching a
       | NAT (e.g.: slirp4netns) to the namespace so that if the VPN dies
       | there is no data leakage.
       | 
       | I get that running things as root has a bit more performance, but
       | compromising on security for the sake of performance doesn't
       | sound like the right approach for this kind of software.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | What VPN software doesn't run as root?
        
         | insanitybit wrote:
         | I can't imagine that root is any faster. It's just a _lot_
         | easier to run things as root vs splitting out separate
         | processes with their own isolation mechanisms.
         | 
         | That the service runs as root isn't really the issue here. None
         | of the attack relies on the abuse of some root capabilities,
         | it's an authentication issue that abuses _how the service
         | works_. Even if it were unprivileged somehow, this would still
         | be the same impact.
        
         | Joker_vD wrote:
         | Yeah, for some reason almost all user-specific customization of
         | network-connectivity (VPN, DNS, etc) requires root privileges.
        
           | Vogtinator wrote:
           | Yeah, because it affects networking in the entire system.
           | 
           | If some pam session module were to set up its own network
           | namespace that is shared by all user processes after login,
           | this could be (mostly) solved. The result would be some
           | surprising behaviour though, as processes outside have a
           | possibly vastly different view of the network.
        
             | Joker_vD wrote:
             | Just like containers?.. I don't see how that's surprising
             | or undesirable.
        
       | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
       | "Open" is a great marketing term to signify to geeks that you're
       | hip to the whole movement thing, and "Wall" of course is a
       | classic Cybersecurity term that is an instantly recognizable part
       | of "firewall", but when you make a portmanteau into "OpenWall"
       | and a big gaping security hole is revealed, surely the irony is
       | not lost on us.
        
         | segfaultbuserr wrote:
         | OpenWall is a highly-respected security research and hacking
         | project from the early 2000s. This group was responsible for
         | revealing numerous 0days during the chaotic days of the early
         | Web, as well as developing exploit mitigation techniques. These
         | days it's mainly known for hosting security-related mailing
         | lists such as oss-security and kernel-hardening, widely read by
         | security researchers and kernel developers.
         | 
         | The name is more than appropriate. It's not the developer of
         | Mozilla VPN.
        
         | tedunangst wrote:
         | You are aware that openwall doesn't make the mozilla vpn,
         | right?
        
       | insanitybit wrote:
       | A major action item here from Mozilla would be to bring this VPN
       | under the same policies and teams that manage Firefox's security
       | issues - or standardize the policies across the company and
       | ensure products are staffed for it (if there is a reason to avoid
       | centralizing that to the team). I would never expect such poor
       | handling from a browser vendor.
        
       | Aachen wrote:
       | Impact: local users on the system, including dummy service users
       | like 'nobody', can perform actions on a running Mozilla VPN
       | daemon via D-Bus, including activating the VPN with a server of
       | the attacker's choice, deactivating the VPN, obtaining log files
       | to see when the user historically activated the VPN, and clearing
       | log files
       | 
       | So you need to have a local shell on the system of the user you
       | want to attack. Not cool, it violates permission boundaries that
       | are there for a reason, but the headline sounded to me like a
       | remote authentication bypass (I'm not into the whole D-Bus/Polkit
       | thing) which this is not
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | This is a great attack vector on corporations that use shared
         | servers for their users.
        
           | makkes wrote:
           | I don't think they would be running the Mozilla VPN client on
           | those servers, though.
        
         | lapinot wrote:
         | Local unprivileged shell is not an unreasonable thing to get on
         | linux since most people are building random software regularly.
         | Among the things i know i should be doing but i don't: using a
         | dedicated user for building everything; sandboxing the build
         | process using some bwrap/container.
        
           | insanitybit wrote:
           | Privesc is also trivial on desktop linux :P so if your
           | barrier is "but I'm an unprivileged user" it's likely not
           | enough. You need a proper sandbox if you want to make
           | escalation difficult.
           | 
           | ex: Desktop Linux's running X have a trivial escalation path;
           | any program can read all keystrokes across all users. You
           | type your sudo password in, you're screwed.
           | 
           | Or if the attacker is running as your user they can just
           | modify your bashrc, aliases, etc, to do a whole bunch of
           | things - like having `sudo` go to an attacker controlled
           | binary - that one will work on the server, too!
           | 
           | So yeah sandboxing builds is super important because
           | "unprivileged users" are almost always one trivial step away
           | from full root.
        
             | tedunangst wrote:
             | There's no reason for your build user to require access to
             | X.
        
               | bravetraveler wrote:
               | Or even most (all) namespaces of the host!
               | 
               | Beyond just minding privileges of the user, building in a
               | container/chroot/etc is nice from a
               | cleanliness/repeatability perspective.
               | 
               | For those interested in the Fedora packaging ecosystem --
               | look into _fedpkg_ and _mock_
               | 
               | https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-
               | maintainers/Pac...
        
       | veave wrote:
       | In case you needed any more excuses to switch to using mullvad
       | directly.
        
         | smolyeet wrote:
         | Unless you need port forwarding. I switched to ovpn for that
         | very reason.
        
       | Vogtinator wrote:
       | Looks like another case of a vulnerability which was handled
       | poorly by upstream: Bad/insufficient communication and multiple
       | embargo violations.
       | 
       | Ultimately this means there is no fix available yet and no ETA
       | when there will be one.
        
       | TylerE wrote:
       | NB: < on Linux >
        
         | rkta wrote:
         | It's in the original headline, but I had to cut it because it
         | was too long.
        
           | Anthony-G wrote:
           | You made the right call. Polkit is most commonly deployed on
           | modern GNU/Linux distributions so the "on Linux" is mostly
           | redundant.
           | 
           | On a related note, Polkit, itself, has had its own privilege
           | escalation problems:
           | 
           | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2021-4034
           | 
           | https://blog.qualys.com/vulnerabilities-threat-
           | research/2022...
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | Polkit only runs on GNU/Linux with systemd anyway.
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | polkit does not require systemd.
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | One could easily not know that, given how many SomethingKits
           | there are in The Apple ecosystem.
        
       | alrlroipsp wrote:
       | The summary seems to ignore upstream.
       | 
       | They did infact
       | 
       | removed polkit : https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/mozilla-vpn-
       | client/pull/70...
       | 
       | refactor auth using D-Bus: https://github.com/mozilla-
       | mobile/mozilla-vpn-client/pull/71...
       | 
       | These are why author's PR was dropped.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-04 23:01 UTC)