[HN Gopher] Polars: Company Formation Announcement
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       Polars: Company Formation Announcement
        
       Author : mmastrac
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2023-08-03 12:00 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pola.rs)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pola.rs)
        
       | eatonphil wrote:
       | Congrats! I'm confused by the Appendix in the post though. When
       | it says "Ignoring database research", what is that connected to
       | in the article?
        
         | radus wrote:
         | Seems like that isn't directly referenced in the article, but
         | the first sentence is: "The suboptimal state of DataFrame
         | implementations can mostly be attributed to:", so I take that
         | section to provide justification for the need for polars in the
         | first place, in a world where there exist several other popular
         | DataFrame implementations.
        
       | claytonjy wrote:
       | What is it about the funding environment that makes VCs suddenly
       | willing to fund companies built around open source python
       | libraries? They generally aren't beating the AI drum, but are
       | they benefiting by proximity to AI via python?
        
         | antidnan wrote:
         | VCs have been doing this for a while, but not limited to python
        
         | TAForObvReasons wrote:
         | It's not sudden and it's not limited to python libraries.
         | 
         | The popular open source projects make great targets for low-
         | multiple acqui-hires, derisking the investment. They also have
         | huge established branding and generally obvious opportunities
         | for displacing existing players. In a non-zero interest rate
         | environment, those factors make established open source
         | projects a more appealing bet.
         | 
         | Since they mentioned the company, undercutting and eating the
         | market share of DataBricks is enough to appeal to some
         | investors.
        
         | lmeyerov wrote:
         | Python is growing well, even relative to Java, for $$$ data
         | stack stuff that VCs have a reason to like
         | 
         | Compare:
         | 
         | Funding databases is some of the most appealing for sw infra VC
         | b/c as business fundamentals like monetization (pay for
         | hosting, data, etc), growth, retention, are some of the most
         | successful & low-risk
         | 
         | Funding the sw compute tier is a peg down but appealing for
         | similar reasons. Basically same-but-weaker than DBs on the
         | above dimensions, but still worth it as customers struggle w/
         | compute at scale (technical + business), so still works. Think
         | early databricks vs snowflake, and how databricks grew to
         | owning more than compute to data lakehouse, dashboards, etc:
         | started as pure compute and now closer to snowflake.
         | 
         | Python is popular for a lot of these compute tier stacks.
         | Orchestrators, AI, ETL, etc. The technical, social, & economic
         | reasons are all interesting & relevant for why.
        
           | vosper wrote:
           | Where's the profit in funding a library, though? The others
           | examples you gave are SaaSable, I don't see that for a
           | library. Paid support, sure, maybe, but does that get the
           | kind of return a VC needs?
        
             | lmeyerov wrote:
             | They're not selling the library but a managed cloud runtime
             | for a scaleout compute tier. The clientside library is part
             | of the freemium, and as workloads need to go bigger, they
             | want to be the easy button for that.
             | 
             | That's similar to anyscale (ray), coiled & saturncloud
             | (dask), and early databricks (spark). Managing infra for
             | that kind of thing is annoying. These companies don't OSS
             | their cloud stack.
             | 
             | Wishing them luck! A lot of arrow-core compute tier & db
             | co's emerging, so cool to see the many years paying off.
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | They already have distribution; the question of whether the
         | product is wanted is answered, derisking the investment. All
         | that's missing is monetization.
        
       | fritzo wrote:
       | What's your business model? Contract development of features?
       | Paid support? Paid-only features?
        
         | infogulch wrote:
         | Highlighted for your convenience:
         | 
         | > We are aiming to deliver a Rust-based compute platform that
         | will efficiently run Polars _at any scale_.
         | 
         | > We believe that the Polars API can be used for both local
         | _and cloud /distributed environments_. Our API is designed to
         | work well on multiple cores, _this design also makes it well
         | poised for a distributed environment_. We also believe that a
         | Rust based columnar OLAP engine (Polars), is perfectly suited
         | for _efficient distributed computing_.
         | 
         | I suspect they will sell "cloud-scale distributed computation"
         | systems. Perhaps something like snowflake?
        
       | jurgenaut23 wrote:
       | Super happy, I think Polars is just an amazing tool! We are in
       | the process of kicking Pandas out of our codebase to replace it
       | with Polars, and I can't tell how satisfactory this has been. The
       | API is so clean and nicely designed compared to Pandas... and
       | with the extra speed/laziness, this is just a miracle ;-)
        
       | jeroenjanssens wrote:
       | This is great news. Makes me proud to be a co-author of the
       | forthcoming Polars book [0]. Congrats to Ritchie, Chiel, and the
       | rest of the team!
       | 
       | [0]: https://jeroenjanssens.com/pp
        
         | dr_kiszonka wrote:
         | I am so glad you are focusing on Python Polars! When do you
         | think the book will be available?
        
           | jeroenjanssens wrote:
           | Thanks! Our goal is to have it published in Q3 2024.
        
       | godelski wrote:
       | Off topic pet peeve: can we stop posting graphs and images with
       | transparency to sites that offer dark mode? This seriously just
       | leads to an unreadable mess. This seems to be a common thing
       | (wikipedia...) and I'm not quite sure why, but then again I'm not
       | sure how people live with light mode.
        
       | infogulch wrote:
       | One of the interesting components of Polars that I've been
       | watching is the use of the Apache Arrow memory format, which is a
       | standard layout for data in memory that enables processing
       | (querying, iterating, calculating, etc) in a language agnostic
       | way, in particular without having to copy/convert it into the
       | local object format first. This enables cross-language data
       | access by mmaping or transferring a single buffer, with zero
       | [de]serialization overhead. Something genius and obvious in
       | hindsight.
       | 
       | For some history, there has been a bit of contention between the
       | official arrow-rs implementation and the arrow2 implementation
       | created by the polars team which includes some extra features
       | that they find important. I think the current status is that
       | everyone agrees that having two crates that implement the same
       | standard is not ideal, and they are working to port any necessary
       | features to the arrow-rs crate and plan on eventually switching
       | to it and deprecating arrow2, but it will take some time to get
       | there.
       | 
       | https://github.com/apache/arrow-rs/issues/1176
       | 
       | https://github.com/jorgecarleitao/arrow2/pull/1476
        
       | bbkane wrote:
       | Congratulations! I use Polars to process my banking csvs into a
       | monthly report. Speed isn't a priority, but ergonomics is- I love
       | Polars consistent and readable Python API!
        
         | avtar wrote:
         | Are you willing to share more information about this? What does
         | the report look like or include? Curious to learn more.
        
           | alanbernstein wrote:
           | Seconding this request, I do something similar and it is
           | quite janky
        
           | pea wrote:
           | If you're looking for an easy way to build an HTML report
           | using Python, you might find Datapane
           | (https://github.com/datapane/datapane) helpful. I'm one of
           | the people building it! We don't support polars (yet, on the
           | roadmap) but we do support pandas so you can convert to a
           | pandas DataFrame and include your data and any plots, etc.
        
       | pietawilterdink wrote:
       | Chiel and Ritchie I'm very proud, good luck.
        
       | orlp wrote:
       | I just joined Polars as a fresh hire, I'm excited to help make it
       | easier to use and faster :)
        
         | ismailmaj wrote:
         | Congrats! I was wondering where you'd go after announcing that
         | you were looking for a job at FOSDEM.
        
       | dweinus wrote:
       | Exciting! What is the argument for Polars on clusters instead of
       | Dask?
        
       | dongobread wrote:
       | Oh boy, a giant seed round with BCV leading. I'll stick with
       | data.table + Clickhouse.
        
       | singhrac wrote:
       | I would love to use Polars today (I have a lot of thoughts about
       | good dataframe API design, and Polars gets a lot of the big ones
       | right - including removing indexes).
       | 
       | However we have a huge amount (and growing) of Pandas code - is
       | there an easy way to convert that in small pieces to Polars code?
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | https://pola-rs.github.io/polars-book/user-guide/migration/p...
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | Can I use rust with polars for explorative data analysis?
       | 
       | I feel like its the data exploration that locks me into Pandas,
       | and I kinda want out.
        
       | nequo wrote:
       | We are hiring ... We are looking for +- 4 CET.
       | 
       | This rules out people in North America, right?
        
         | ritchie46 wrote:
         | Yes, initially we want to hire a bit closer to our base (the
         | Netherlands). Eventually that might change.
        
       | ayembee wrote:
       | This is really exciting stuff; gives polars a stable base to
       | build on. Given how far it's already come without this kind of
       | backing, the sky's the limit :))
        
       | no_wizard wrote:
       | Congratulations team! Big win for Polars
       | 
       | This has me thinking:
       | 
       | Every time I think to myself _no way there is a business for X_ I
       | need to remember there quite frankly could be a business for most
       | things, as long as the problem domain being solved for saves
       | labor vs cost, enables new use cases, or business expansion etc.
       | 
       | I've sat too long on far too many things that I'm like _oh no one
       | would pay for this_ when in fact, I bet at least one of my
       | projects could be revenue generating.
        
       | naiv wrote:
       | Good luck, I ran into Polars by coincidence just yesterday and
       | already a big fan.
       | 
       | Will you also offer paid support?
        
         | ritchie46 wrote:
         | We are looking into some sort of support system. Once our new
         | website is out there will be more info on that.
         | 
         | You can also email us info@polars.tech to get more info now.
        
       | dmillar wrote:
       | Great stuff. After using datatables in Python, I was excited by
       | the performance but disappointed by the support (hey, everyone
       | has different priorities). I had started my own DataFrame library
       | in Rust that could be used as a pandas corollary/drop in. I
       | wanted out-of-core, efficiency, threading, memmapping, and sql
       | also! My long-abandoned implementation was a SQLite wrapper, as
       | opposed to Arrow, but this looks exciting. Will be watching.
        
       | necubi wrote:
       | Congratulations! Exciting to see more companies in the Rust data
       | space.
        
       | anton_ai wrote:
       | I am very happy for you, egoistically I want Polars to become a
       | the best tool it can. On the other hand it is not going to be
       | easy to build a company around it, I think you need a
       | different/better business model compared to Databricks/Spark.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-03 23:01 UTC)