[HN Gopher] IRS launches paperless processing initiative
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IRS launches paperless processing initiative
Author : xdfg13345
Score : 118 points
Date : 2023-08-02 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (home.treasury.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (home.treasury.gov)
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| This announcement is _not_ about the IRS pre-filling income tax
| returns, a topic that is discussed regularly on HN.
|
| This is about handling all the _other_ activities surrounding tax
| filing, such as getting copies of 3rd-party information returns
| (W-2s, 1099-Rs, etc), receiving and responding to notices
| regarding errors or questions in the previously filed tax return,
| etc.
|
| California FTB (tax agency) set up an online system for taxpayers
| starting five or more years ago, with continuing enhancements
| since then. IRS is just now catching up, by providing the ability
| for a taxpayer (or tax practitioner with permission) to create a
| secure login account with access to their personal information.
| NickM wrote:
| They currently don't allow individuals to e-file unless they
| either:
|
| 1. Acquire commercial software, or; 2. Hire a paid preparer to
| file it, or; 3. Use "Free File Fillable Forms" (but this isn't an
| option if you fall into one of the numerous special cases that it
| doesn't support)
|
| So, basically, mailing in a paper return is the only free option
| for some people (myself included).
|
| I genuinely don't understand why paid preparers can e-file
| directly with the IRS, but individuals can't. There's nothing in
| the linked article that says this will change, so if they go
| ahead and ban paper filing in a couple years, I'm not sure what
| options are left for people like me.
|
| Yes, I can easily afford to shell out for software or a paid
| preparer if I really have to, but I'm very much against doing
| this on principle, since the whole tax prep industry in the US is
| a huge rent-seeking racket.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35950836
| noodlesUK wrote:
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that paid
| preparers can only e file if they are using a commercial
| software package that supports it such as Lacerte.
| efitz wrote:
| How about this: let's go to a single flat rate for everyone and
| everything (say 20%) and eliminate all deductions except for a
| standard deduction (say whatever is the poverty line, eg $25000
| or so). This would be for corporations and individuals.
|
| Now your taxes can be filed on a postcard. And the IRS can
| preprint it and send it to you, with an online code or something
| to click "ok" on a web site and be done.
|
| The government uses the tax code like a Swiss Army knife, trying
| to reward friends, punish enemies, encourage and discourage
| behaviors, etc. As a result we collectively spend millions of
| person hours and untold $$$ paying accountants to find and
| exploit loopholes and try and avoid undue attention.
|
| Let's just stop.
| kccqzy wrote:
| So how would the government now incentivize things it wants and
| disincentives things it doesn't want?
|
| Most recently I improved insulation at my house. I was
| surprised to see an IRS form that gives me tax advantages for
| making my home more energy efficient. How would the government
| now do this?
| halestock wrote:
| Sounds great, except a flat tax rate is extremely regressive so
| you either tank the amount of tax revenue the government
| collects, or you punish low income earners far more than
| wealthy individuals.
| peter303 wrote:
| My state has flat tax rate of federal taxable income (after
| deductions). Most years its free online filing and typing 5
| or 6 numbers. Takes five minutes. The tax softwares dont like
| that because they get half their income from state filings.
|
| I dislike that I dont get the long term capital gains
| discount like on federal.
| efitz wrote:
| The regressive aspect of it is offset by the large standard
| deduction.
| halestock wrote:
| That still won't solve the issue. The reason for
| progressive taxation is that there simply _isn 't_ a tax
| rate that allows you to both sufficiently fund the
| government and doesn't punish low income earners. The gulf
| between what the lowest and highest earners make is simply
| so vast that you can't do it without progressive taxation.
| efitz wrote:
| I disagree. "Funding the government " is a policy
| decision; everyone needs to live within a budget.
| Secondly, eliminating all deductions except a standard
| deduction actually increases funding by avoiding the
| situation where megacorps don't pay any taxes.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > The reason for progressive taxation is that there
| simply isn't a tax rate that allows you to both
| sufficiently fund the government and doesn't punish low
| income earners.
|
| Sure there is. After eliminating deductions and special
| treatment (including, e.g., for capital gains), do a flat
| income tax at the current maximum marginal rate with a
| standard exemption at the level that results in the same
| median total tax rate as currently.
|
| You'll more than make up on the high end the revenue
| you'll lose on the low end. Of course, all actual flat
| tax proposals are designed to be massive tax cuts,
| especially for the rich, which is why they tend to
| feature a flat rate that's similar to the marginal rate
| for one of the lower brackets. Do that and you can't pay
| for much government.
| orangepurple wrote:
| Wealthy Democrats living abroad do not file US tax returns
| and the IRS never goes after them because they are friends
| with the leadership back in the country.
| halestock wrote:
| [citation needed]
| orangepurple wrote:
| Hearsay from my friend who lives abroad and who was
| attending a Democrats abroad function and they kicked him
| out of the meeting after he suggested that they pass a
| rule that anybody who could be eligible to be elected to
| the board of directors should be able to pass a basic tax
| audit. There was support in the audience but the
| organizers immediately banned him.
|
| There are stories of the IRS being used as a political
| weapon floating around online as well.
| thfuran wrote:
| There are stories of alien abductions floating around
| online as well.
| yetanotherloss wrote:
| [dead]
| delecti wrote:
| What about business deductions, or are you okay with low-margin
| businesses being forced to evaporate overnight? And what about
| all the charities that suddenly get vastly less donations
| because they're no longer deductible? Also as the other comment
| notes, that's either a drastic cut to revenue, or incredibly
| regressive on lower-income earners.
|
| Taxes are more complicated than they need to be, but they're
| also complicated because the world is complicated.
| abhayhegde wrote:
| This would be a godsend! I'm not sure of its applicability to
| non-resident aliens yet, but having to mail the documents has
| been a really slow process. They don't open them even after two
| months of receiving them, and then take another few weeks to
| process.
|
| Going digital would at least alleviate the fears of having
| submitted the returns on time, since otherwise IRS doesn't
| acknowledge them receiving on/before time.
| kasperni wrote:
| Welcome to 21st century. Sincerely, the rest of the developed
| world.
|
| I hope TurboTax and friends doesn't manage to screw this one up.
| y-curious wrote:
| They must be pissed that their ROI for their lobbying money is
| so low. Fingers crossed!
| deprecative wrote:
| Given this doesn't interfere with their business I don't see
| why they would.
| forgotusername6 wrote:
| The UK has had online tax returns since 2001. It always amazes me
| how many things in the US still use paper.
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| The article is primarily about processing documents other than
| actual income tax returns. Does the U.K. have a completely
| digital (paperless) way of communicating with taxpayers and
| resolving issues after the tax return is filed?
|
| The U.S. has had "online tax returns" (e-file) since the 1990s.
| Paid tax preparers are mandated to efile, it is only the
| minority of DIY taxpayers who insist on paper filing their
| income tax returns.
| callalex wrote:
| >it is only the minority of DIY taxpayers who insist on paper
| filing their income tax returns
|
| This is a gross misrepresentation of the situation. Being
| forced to chop down and bleach trees if you don't want to pay
| a bribe to a rent seeking company that lobbies directly
| against your interests is not "insisting on paper filing" at
| all.
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| So you are claiming that not _wanting_ to do one thing
| means you are _forced_ to do some other thing? It is a
| choice, nothing is "forced".
|
| More importantly, you don't have to "pay a bribe to a rent-
| seeking company" (talk about gross misrepresentation!), the
| IRS offers free online filing to everyone (and I'm not
| talking about the "Free file alliance" with tax software
| vendors, but a direct service from the IRS).
|
| https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-
| form...
| buzer wrote:
| > the IRS offers free online filing to everyone
|
| Not to dual-status individuals for example. Those
| individuals must mail/fax their return to IRS.
| khuey wrote:
| Free Fillable Forms is run by "On-Line Taxes, Inc", not
| the IRS. It's not a direct service.
| callalex wrote:
| The whole point of this discussion introduced by the
| article linked at the top of the page is that electronic
| communication is only available to the general public for
| initial filing.
| khuey wrote:
| Electronic filing of tax returns has been available for over 30
| years. This is about everything else.
| [deleted]
| supportengineer wrote:
| Are they going to be using MOVEit for our sensitive documents?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Big thanks to y'all at the IRS and US Digital Service who are
| working on this.
| progrus wrote:
| They're getting scared. Trying to justify their paychecks.
|
| Why do this now?
| gordon_freeman wrote:
| will this allow me to digitally file my amended federal taxes?
| That's the one thing that I was looking forward to when I started
| reading this and possible may impact most taxpayers but looks
| like IRS still needs amended tax returns in a paper form being
| mailed out to them?
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| Filing amended returns electronically with the IRS (efile) has
| been available for several years. The ability to catch up with
| unfiled prior year returns by efiling has been available for
| even longer. (IOW, you can efile your unfiled 2021 tax return
| in 2023).
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| > This includes amendments to Forms 940, 941, and 941SSPR,
| which are some of the most common forms taxpayers file when
| amending returns.
| SilasX wrote:
| >Taxpayers will be able to digitally submit all correspondence,
| non-tax forms, and responses to notices;
|
| Nice! I had to reply to a notice last year, and fortunately, I
| was able to respond to it "digitally", but only via a workaround:
| since one accepted medium is fax, I used an e-fax service to send
| the response.[1] It definitely felt like there had to be a better
| way.
|
| [1] Shout-out to faxrocket, featured on HN:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15484390
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Maybe they just got funding for email?
|
| I think it is intentional that governments, especially bigger
| ones like state and federal, make on the record communication
| with them more difficult. I have called government offices many
| times only to receive a message that says "call back the next
| business day"..at 10AM. No way to submit an email, or even a
| simple call back function.
|
| No, you have to spend hours of your time trying to reach them,
| and the only way this makes sense is if they want to make some
| people give up.
|
| The only advice for this is to contact a politician and hope
| they take up your personal cause. Basically, what you would
| expect in a poor, developing country, except there, at least it
| is known how much you need to bribe someone to get service.
| siruncledrew wrote:
| Finally, at least it's promising that the process looks to be
| less bad
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(page generated 2023-08-02 23:01 UTC)