[HN Gopher] Dear Websites, Stop Asking for Ransom Sign-Ups
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       Dear Websites, Stop Asking for Ransom Sign-Ups
        
       Author : vishnuharidas
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2023-08-01 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (iamvishnu.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (iamvishnu.com)
        
       | nickthegreek wrote:
       | My biggest current peeve is not allowing me to see shipping costs
       | until I've given basically all my information to a company before
       | I've checked out.
        
         | TheAngryCanuck wrote:
         | This actually worked out to my advantage! I did this on a site,
         | found out that they didn't ship to Canada so I abandoned the
         | cart. I got all the oh no emails so I emailed them back telling
         | them I CAN'T buy their stuff because you WON'T ship to me.
         | 
         | Couple of days later the company CEO emails me back. First he
         | apologises (bonus points to a Canadian), promises to fix the
         | cart abandon logic, and offers to ship me 2 of the things I was
         | going to buy for free.
         | 
         | They will hopefully arrive this week
        
         | WirelessGigabit wrote:
         | Including your email address.
         | 
         | And then you abandon the cart, because it doesn't make sense
         | for you to pay $50 for shipping.
         | 
         | But then you get those emails 'you forgot something'. No I
         | didn't.
        
           | badwolf wrote:
           | And you're forever on their "mailing list" because they don't
           | process unsubscribes, since they probably just manually
           | upload a .csv of everyone every time they want to send
           | something to you, whether you ever opted in, or not.
        
         | ianlevesque wrote:
         | This is why Amazon is still winning. The competition needs to
         | compete better.
        
       | rlpb wrote:
       | I wish there were a way for users to share the websites that do
       | this and other dark patterns so that I can avoid them.
       | Effectively a reputation system. Search engines used to do this,
       | but apparently not any more. We need a replacement.
        
         | tsuujin wrote:
         | https://www.deceptive.design/hall-of-shame
        
         | datavirtue wrote:
         | I agree, we need a replacement. At the protocol level I would
         | like life insurance policy returns and banking service as a
         | place to store my money that allows me to pay any portion of
         | currency I want at any time. So Facebook can be paid for the
         | time I'm on the site, for instance. The returns from the
         | insurance contract might even make it all free to me (it would,
         | easily). Everyone is happy except those who rely on reaching
         | you via forced advertisements. Oh, and the people who rely on
         | enslaving others.
         | 
         | Any such protocol would be labeled as evil, filthy socialism.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I also dislike websites that get you down a path before requiring
       | an email signup or cell phone verification.
       | 
       | But I much prefer the former to the latter; pretty much everyone
       | has a spam-only email address, right? Whereas I won't give out my
       | phone number under pretty much any circumstance (and don't have a
       | spam-only number).
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > pretty much everyone has a spam-only email address, right?
         | 
         | I used to, but I've since taken to just not signing up to
         | things instead.
        
           | 63 wrote:
           | When I have no choice, I use a free throwaway email service.
           | Unfortunately it's much harder to get a throwaway phone
           | number so it greatly annoys me when services (Twitter,
           | specifically) require one
        
             | datavirtue wrote:
             | All of big tech is checking phone numbers against
             | sophisticated databases to determine if it is possible for
             | an individual to have that number associated with their
             | cell phone device. If it isn't a real mobile number you are
             | not getting in.
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | Where do these databases even get their data? IIRC the
               | phone network is very opaque compared to IP addresses and
               | internet routing.
        
             | anonym29 wrote:
             | smspool, smspva, etc. not free but not expensive.
        
       | DamonHD wrote:
       | Indeed a dark dishonest practice.
       | 
       | I won't touch services that do such things.
        
         | Gordonjcp wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | scohesc wrote:
       | Adobe's web-based JPG to PNG converter is exactly like this.
       | Upload a JPG, hit convert - it uploads the file, processes it on
       | their end, and then refuses to give you the result until you
       | "sign up for a free adobe account that we conveniently didn't
       | tell you about until now!"
       | 
       | Similar enough - some shopping websites will grab your email
       | address when you start doing a guest checkout but eventually
       | decide not to purchase from them. They'll then start spamming you
       | without your consent a day later.
       | 
       | Ransom sign-ups belong in the same tier of horrible.
       | 
       | Modern downloadable software does this too. You download a "free"
       | partition manager or "free" PDF converter, or whatever "free" -
       | you install it, get through their wizard/main workflow to do what
       | you want, but then it says "oops, sorry, you have to pay for
       | this!"
       | 
       | Anti-consumer stuff it all is. What a shame software and websites
       | like this are allowed to exist.
        
         | veave wrote:
         | If you use a web service to convert from jpg to png you've
         | already lost.
        
         | 63 wrote:
         | This is a little tangential, but your post reminded me that
         | I've struggled with converting images at work because our vpn
         | blocks a lot of those file conversation sites (presumably for
         | good reason, but I'm not privy). Converting common file formats
         | seems like such a common use case that I really feel like there
         | should be a tool built into modern operating systems for it. It
         | seems like an obvious add to me, but then again the Windows
         | search functionality barely works so I'm not sure they're
         | incentived to actually help their users right now.
        
           | JoshTriplett wrote:
           | Grab a copy of netpbm or GraphicsMagick that's compiled for
           | Windows.
           | 
           | Or, grab a free image editor (https://www.getpaint.net/ is
           | popular for Windows), open in one format, save in the other.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | This. I honestly don't understand why people use online
             | image converters when there are high-quality OSS programs
             | that will do the job locally. I'll bet that the majority of
             | the online converters are using these programs to do the
             | actual conversion anyway.
        
           | asynchronous wrote:
           | Especially since almost all conversions can be done in the
           | browser with JavaScript libraries now.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | A browser + JavaScript seems like a pretty heavy lift to do
             | something as trivial as converting an image from one format
             | to another. ImageMagick is simple, fast, and available for
             | just about every system imaginable.
        
       | malikNF wrote:
       | Just saying, some of these sites don't have captcha or any kind
       | of spam prevention implemented. Something something simple shell
       | script feed them garbage data something.
        
         | veave wrote:
         | It's unlikely that they are actually storing anything until you
         | sign up. And even if they did it would take a lot of effort to
         | feed them garbage from tons of different ip addresses.
        
         | s-xyz wrote:
         | How would this work?
        
           | malikNF wrote:
           | curl is a very powerful tool.
        
       | s-xyz wrote:
       | I understand the point; ideally you want to have some free
       | content before you actually need to sign up. However, when
       | integrating a paid solution like OpenAI for example, the tricky
       | part is to limit the number of free requests to prevent going
       | bankrupt by one user. I can imagine that this would be a
       | potential reason to ask for a sign up.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-01 23:00 UTC)