[HN Gopher] Why transformative artificial intelligence is hard t...
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       Why transformative artificial intelligence is hard to achieve
        
       Author : hunglee2
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2023-07-30 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thegradient.pub)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thegradient.pub)
        
       | mistermann wrote:
       | "Why _many human beings believe /predict_ transformative
       | artificial intelligence is really, really hard to achieve
       | _according to what we 've thought of so far_" would be a more
       | accurate title.
        
       | jareklupinski wrote:
       | > We could be headed off in the wrong direction altogether. If
       | even some of our hurdles prove insurmountable, then we may be far
       | from the critical path to AI that can do all that humans can.
       | 
       | humans can go insane and start putting memories and thoughts
       | together in ways that don't make sense in any logical or
       | mathematical way
       | 
       | perhaps Skynet will be born the first time someone tries voltage-
       | glitching an AI-enabled padlock
        
       | lkrubner wrote:
       | We should ask, when will AI make a discovery on its own? For
       | instance, computers should be able to understand numbers, and run
       | analysis on numbers. Computers have complete access to every fact
       | that humans know about numbers. So numbers should be the first
       | place that we should expect to see genuine innovation from AI.
       | This is a simple test for the moment that AI is able to make
       | original contributions to our society: when can AI come up with a
       | new thesis about numbers, and then build an original proof,
       | something that can be published in the major, peer-reviewed math
       | journals.
       | 
       | Until AI can do that, we have to admit that it's not really aware
       | or sentient or any of the other more ambitious things that have
       | recently been claimed for it.
       | 
       | Can AI teach us anything new about the pattern of prime numbers?
       | 
       | Can AI develop an original proof for the shape of shadows in high
       | dimensional spaces?
       | 
       | Can AI creatively prove a new limit to mathematics?
       | 
       | There are 2 researchers in AI who deserve more attention: Kenneth
       | O. Stanley and Joel Lehman. They wrote a great book: Why
       | Greatness Cannot Be Planned. They look at the limits of utility
       | functions and explain the importance of novelty. As an antidote
       | to some of the hype around AI, I strongly recommend this book:
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Why-Greatness-Cannot-Planned-Objectiv...
        
         | lucubratory wrote:
         | >This is a simple test for the moment that AI is able to make
         | original contributions to our society: when can AI come up with
         | a new thesis about numbers, and then build an original proof,
         | something that can be published in the major, peer-reviewed
         | math journals.
         | 
         | >Until AI can do that, we have to admit that it's not really
         | aware or sentient or any of the other more ambitious things
         | that have recently been claimed for it.
         | 
         | We have to admit no such thing, that is an absurdly high bar.
         | The vast majority of humanity has not produced an original
         | mathematical proof worthy of being published in a peer-reviewed
         | math journal, and realistically it isn't possible for the vast
         | majority of humanity to do so. Nevertheless, we are essentially
         | all sentient/aware. "If it can't generate new and novel math
         | that can pass peer review, it's not aware or sentient" is a
         | moving of the goalposts so far and fast it should be giving you
         | windburn.
        
         | DennisP wrote:
         | I've started to think of LLMs as not so much AI as collective
         | intelligence. An LLM aggregates a huge amount of human-
         | generated information and thinking into one convenient semi-
         | intelligent entity, without doing much really original thinking
         | of its own (so far).
         | 
         | But this alone is potentially profound. Better ways to be
         | collectively smarter could itself accelerate change. Vernor
         | Vinge's famous essay "The Coming Technological Singularity"
         | wasn't just about AI; he also suggested collective intelligence
         | as a way the singularity could happen.
         | 
         | https://edoras.sdsu.edu/~vinge/misc/singularity.html
        
         | K0balt wrote:
         | I am of the opinion that AI is neither truly artificial in
         | nature nor intelligent, in the way that we imagine
         | intelligence.
         | 
         | But AI is capable of doing the things you mentioned, perhaps
         | not on that scale just yet, but certainly in principle.
         | 
         | The reason being, that transformer AI in LLM models is actually
         | just an engine for parsing human intelligence.
         | 
         | As the engine improves, it will appear "smarter", but it is
         | still just parsing its way through the n-dimensional memetic
         | matrix that is human language and culture. .... Just like we
         | do.
         | 
         | Unless there exists a superintelligence expressed in that data
         | set, AI will not express superintelligence in the way we would
         | expect.
         | 
         | AI does express superintelligence though. In its ability to
         | carry on coherent conversations with thousands of people
         | simultaneously on a diverse range of subjects and create
         | documents and code at the speed of conversation.
         | 
         | Right now it is hobbled by limitations of the parsing engine
         | and an inflexibility of not being able to aggregate new
         | knowledge, but those things are improving and being worked on,
         | just not ready for public access yet.
        
         | Legend2440 wrote:
         | It already has done that. The four-color theorem was proved by
         | computer all the way back in the 70s.
        
         | g42gregory wrote:
         | I recall that DeepMind's AI discovered a new type of Sorting
         | Algorithm. Sorting is one of the most "trafficked" area of CS
         | research, so I would say it's a true discovery.
        
           | interroboink wrote:
           | I think you're referring to this one?
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36228125
           | 
           | (underlying article:
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06004-9)
           | 
           | Certainly computer-aided proofs have been a thing for a
           | while; I wonder where one draws the line between "the AI made
           | a new proof" and "we build a system that proved X"? Which I
           | guess really gets at the more basic question "what is an AI"?
        
             | wslh wrote:
             | I think one line is: you ask the computer about a problem
             | in a declarative way (e.g. Z3) and the computer came up
             | with a solution or a description of where it is blocked by
             | the problem with potential areas of attack.
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | Does the protein folding stuff from DeepMind count?
        
         | sdenton4 wrote:
         | High school students found to be non-sentient by AI critics.
         | Film at 11.
        
           | FormerBandmate wrote:
           | High schoolers come up with new ideas all the time. AI is
           | just generic scenarios that are mathematical average of what
           | you'd expect. It's really reductionist to say people are
           | that, betrays a certain cynicism about humanity
        
             | moffkalast wrote:
             | Those new ideas are hardly ever better than a string of
             | words probabilistically drawn from a bag. Saying that AI
             | can't think the same things we do betrays a kind of human
             | exceptionalism that's been a part of AI criticism forever.
             | The bar is always one step higher, like some kind of
             | mathematical function that approaches infinity as
             | capabilities improve.
        
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