[HN Gopher] St Francis of Assisi
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St Francis of Assisi
Author : Tomte
Score : 92 points
Date : 2023-07-29 06:49 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.lrb.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.lrb.co.uk)
| AlbertCory wrote:
| I grew up Catholic, but would be considered "lapsed" now.
|
| Anyhow, St. Francis _always_ struck me as one of the very nicest
| stories in Christianity. Whenever my Mom was kind to animals,
| someone always compared her to him.
| ttonkytonk wrote:
| Absolutely.
|
| I was impressed to hear that he even started addressing flames
| of fire as "brother flames" (iirc).
| ta1243 wrote:
| Except in the "Backwards" universe in Red Dwarf --
|
| In this universe, he's the petty-minded little sadist who goes
| around maiming small animals.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| This is about "The National Gallery's St Francis of Assisi (until
| 30 July)".
|
| Dear Hacker News crowd, I am from Assisi. I was born and raised
| there. At age ~30 I left Italy and joined a then-small AWS as
| their first employee in Europe, and ended up living abroad for
| ~13 years. I now live in Venice, Italy.
|
| If you're curious about Assisi, please ask. I'll do my best to
| answer.
| situationista wrote:
| I have a question. Blambla or Bibiano?
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| I know the guys working at Bibiano, so I'd recommend that
| one. But both are nice :)
| asielen wrote:
| I am not really religious at all but something about the
| Basilica at Assisi made me feel something that I never felt
| anywhere else I have visited. Hard to describe, I sort of felt
| lighter after visiting. I sense of calm that maybe the closest
| I've felt was after a long session of guided meditation.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| I built the Basilica in Second Life in 2007, eventually
| getting a job at Amazon [0].
|
| [0]: https://simon.medium.com/2008-how-i-got-hired-by-amazon-
| com-...
| rockyj wrote:
| As a person born in India, I learned about St. Francis through
| numerous schools named after him. A lot of those schools were
| also shelters for animals, that is how I learned about the
| saint's love and compassion for all living things. His simple
| life and dedication fascinates me. Anything that helps me learn
| more about him, his teachings, or historical artifacts /
| pilgrimage is of interest to me.
| redandblack wrote:
| Same and that influence held true.
|
| Reading "name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco, I came across
| references and realized that there is a lot the we don't
| about his impact on the society.
|
| Really, by now we should know and expect what happened
| afterwards as explained in the 2nd paragraph -
| https://povcrystal.blogspot.com/2013/01/st-francis-and-
| umber...
| bombcar wrote:
| Do you live IN the Venice of tourist photos or outside on dry
| land?
|
| Assisi was a great stop on my drive through Italy in 2016.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| Yes, I do! Very different than most other places on Earth. I
| like it a lot.
| [deleted]
| pico303 wrote:
| I grew up Christian, but I'm not any longer. That said, St.
| Francis is still a hero of mine and represents what Christianity
| should be.
| motohagiography wrote:
| The analogy would be that what we call _Genius_ is secular
| sainthood today.
|
| What I think about sainthood now is that "they forgave you when
| you won," as many of them could have been condemned as zealots
| and heretics, and many of them have what are effectively cults.
| But if you made enough of a mark, the church authorities had to
| weigh the balance and decide whether to ignore you as a heretic,
| or cannonize you as a saint. Not much has changed about the world
| today, and some of my favourite modern writers could have been
| said to have lived similar lives to saints.
|
| What I have come to appreciate about that religion is related to
| St. Francis and the Franciscans, which is being in nature and
| relating to it. That is, without language or self, which seems
| heavy on the woo, but it can make stark the smallness and
| absurdities of our material world and the suffering we impose on
| each other as the effect of our opinions and perceptions filtered
| through ideas of self. It's meaningful that rivers and trees in
| nature don't care. The Japanese "forest bathing," is related,
| where I think people really benefit from being free from their
| own judgments of themselves and the percieved judgments of
| others.
|
| Where it relates to Francis is that animals absolutely notice and
| behave differently around people who have let go of their self-
| ness(?) and wants, since "wanting" in nature necessarily means
| predation to every other being. Life consumes life, and something
| expressing want of any kind is going to eat something so you
| don't want to be around it. I suspect that hunger is something
| repellant to everything in nature, as you don't want to be around
| anything that is expressing it. If you've ever heard someone
| described as "a bit thirsty," it means to avoid them. There's
| some deep psychosexual stuff going on with that bit of slang,
| imo, but the story of Francis was how he had given up that need.
|
| People certainly let go of that want and hunger of spirit without
| the Christian path, just ask those Buddhist monks how they live
| with tigers. But if someone wanted to emmulate Jesus's example
| from those stories in scripture, I think the stories of Francis
| communing with animals are an example of someone who was able to
| understand that facet of Jesus' presence, and to present himself
| to animals without the want and hunger that defines the self in
| many religions, and like the lions laying down in front of the
| martyrs thrown to them, the acceptance by other animal beings was
| evidence of faith curing that spiritual hunger. The message in
| the canonization of Francis is, we are not merely our hungers and
| thirsts, we are more, and we can exercise it by emmulating
| Christ's example as a map - or just find a way to figure it out
| for yourself through some other path.
|
| If you are in fact a genius, consider that your odds of being
| cannonized as one are pretty low, just do good work and make
| things people want that relieve their suffering, and maybe just
| keep your head down for a bit, as one gets the impression the
| inquisitors these days are restless.
| agumonkey wrote:
| > who have let go of their self-ness(?) and wants, since
| "wanting" in nature necessarily means predation to every other
| being
|
| I was discussing this on a sociology discord until some PhD
| asserted that every being seeks domination unless it's
| dominated...
|
| I found the view a little narrow and I much prefer the one you
| described, even though we are to be predatory at points in our
| live.. (biochemistry dictatest that) we can and often prefer to
| be in a selfless state, a sharing, a harmonizing one.
| michaelsbradley wrote:
| [flagged]
| 50 wrote:
| Better than anything you'll ever conjure up.
| riffraff wrote:
| > had to weigh the balance and decide whether to ignore you as
| a heretic, or cannonize you as a saint
|
| That doesn't seem the right characterization.
|
| Francis of Assisi went to get authorization from the Pope early
| and defined himself and his movement as being part of "mother
| church".
|
| Martin Luther was excommunicated while alive, as was Cauvin, or
| recently archbishop Milingo.
|
| Canonization is kinda independent from being declared heretic.
| analog31 wrote:
| Indeed, had Francis been accused of heresy, he would have
| been prosecuted. A better term might be "reformer."
|
| Excommunication is a finding that someone is not eligible for
| communion.
|
| Now, being a "reformer" runs you the risk of falling afoul of
| the authorities, and a finding of heresy could result from
| that.
| NoZebra120vClip wrote:
| St. John of the Cross put up with this sort of thing.
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