[HN Gopher] Psychopathic tendencies help some people succeed in ...
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       Psychopathic tendencies help some people succeed in business
        
       Author : reqo
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2023-07-29 19:34 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
        
       | johndhi wrote:
       | Hehe - sadly watching this play out at work this very week.
       | 
       | The big one I've observed is people who shoot upward in an
       | organization by being obsequious to those above them and brutal
       | to those below.
        
         | gscott wrote:
         | It is a self-reinforcing cycle. Upper management hires a
         | manager the manager meets all of the sales/service metrics but
         | the employees complain about the managers style. Upper
         | management feels they set the metrics high so this managers
         | style must be working so they promote the manager and dismiss
         | the employees concerns as complaining.
         | 
         | If the manager starts missing metrics, manager start firing
         | employees to cover up for these misses and maybe moves to a
         | different region because they have laid as much destruction as
         | one place can handle.
        
         | kennethrc wrote:
         | "Succession"
        
       | boeingUH60 wrote:
       | I'm not surprised by this, especially on the trait of
       | _fearlessness_. Check many successful entrepreneurs, and you 'll
       | observe that they're crazy.
       | 
       | Take Musk for example, you really have to be fearless and
       | delusional to think that you can build a successful electric
       | carmaker from scratch and a company making re-usable rockets at
       | the same time. These traits serve him positively in business, but
       | it's no surprise to also see it manifest negatively in other
       | areas...
        
         | hristov wrote:
         | I am not sure how Musk would qualify as a psychopath. If you
         | look carefully, his successful ventures were actually the
         | result of very thoughtful and careful long term planning. And
         | this is not usually a strong suit for psychopaths.
         | 
         | He did not build a successful electric car maker, he joined
         | tesla well after it was founded and after it had done
         | significant amount of development. But if you examined why
         | tesla succeeded it was not only boldness or craziness, but
         | careful planning many many years ahead. It is not enough to do
         | something that seems impossible, that usually ends up in
         | failure as the thing ends up being in fact impossible.
         | 
         | The genius is to see how technology and public perception
         | changes in the future as to set out in such a way that after
         | 10-20 years of hard work the impossible will seem possible.
         | 
         | On the other hand his failures and many embarrassments came
         | universally from doing things on a whim. Examples are that
         | "funding secured" tweet and the purchase of twitter. And if you
         | look at those embarrassments they are really more the result of
         | narcissism than psychopathy.
         | 
         | So if I had to guess, I think Musk has developed more
         | narcissistic traits later on due to his success, being
         | surrounded by sycophants, mental exhaustion and perhaps drug
         | use. But I don't think this is the cause of his success.
        
         | rainsford wrote:
         | I wonder about survivorship bias in Musk's case. Lots of
         | fearless people with overdose levels of hubris don't lead
         | successful car and/or rocket companies after all. You could
         | probably make a reasonable argument that those traits helped
         | Elon Musk specifically, but that's different than arguing
         | they're useful traits for success in general. I agree with your
         | point about those traits manifesting negatively for Musk
         | himself, but I feel like that effect is going to be even more
         | significant for entrepreneurs trying to succeed by emulating
         | the 2023 version of Elon.
        
       | hristov wrote:
       | I got really angry reading this. It is a big mistake to think
       | that just because someone does not break the law, and they are
       | successful, they are beneficial to society at large or even to
       | the organization where they are being successful.
       | 
       | The fact that there a successful psychopaths is more an
       | indication that we as a society have not quite created mechanisms
       | of protecting ourselves from such people rather than any evidence
       | that being a psychopath is somehow good.
       | 
       | In the places where I have worked I have seen many of these bold
       | people wreck the business as they are moving up the ranks of said
       | business. In one previous workplace, the business was basically
       | destroyed by these scumbags. But if the psychologists that wrote
       | this article examine these scumbags, they will consider them
       | "successful psychopaths" because they gained ranked and salary
       | quickly within the business before they destroyed the whole
       | thing.
       | 
       | As I have done more work researching publicly traded companies, I
       | have seen many companies destroyed by a bold charismatic leader
       | that has a brilliant plan that can never succeed.
       | 
       | Psychologists should concentrate on creating better tests for
       | identifying psychopaths and creating better social or work
       | structures for protecting against psychopathic infiltration
       | rather than making excuses for or glorifying psychopaths.
        
       | Hizonner wrote:
       | > Psychopathic traits exist in everyone to some degree and
       | shouldn't be glorified or stigmatized, she says.
       | 
       | Sure, of course we shouldn't attach any stigma to being a
       | goddamned asshole, as long as the person is smart enough to only
       | do it when it benefits them.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Notice the word "Some"
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | So, the Gervais Principle has some backing?
       | 
       | https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
        
       | salamiboy wrote:
       | Remember Machiavelli's "The Prince"?
       | 
       | "I conclude therefore that, fortune being changeful and mankind
       | steadfast in their ways, so long as the two are in agreement men
       | are successful, but unsuccessful when they fall out. For my part
       | I consider that it is better to be adventurous than cautious,
       | because fortune is a woman, and if you wish to keep her under it
       | is necessary to beat and ill-use her; and it is seen that she
       | allows herself to be mastered by the adventurous rather than by
       | those who go to work more coldly. She is, therefore, always,
       | woman-like, a lover of young men, because they are less cautious,
       | more violent, and with more audacity command her."
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | Such a fascinating quote. It would be as welcome in red pill
         | dating circles as it would be in the business context
        
         | 1MachineElf wrote:
         | Given the relations among genders today, I wonder how
         | differently Machiavelli would have phrased his ideas here.
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | I appreciate this comment.
         | 
         | Unlike this article, at least Machiavelli didn't pretend he was
         | doing science.
        
       | yamrzou wrote:
       | https://archive.is/Tl9DV
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-29 23:02 UTC)