[HN Gopher] Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being reta...
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       Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex
       workers
        
       Author : mathandstuff
       Score  : 95 points
       Date   : 2023-07-29 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theintercept.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theintercept.com)
        
       | beebmam wrote:
       | > "I fought the worst of the worst: ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban,"
       | Skull Games president and former Delta Force soldier Jeff Tiegs
       | has said. "But the adversary I despise the most are human
       | traffickers." Tiegs has told interviewers that he takes
       | "counterterrorism / counterinsurgency principles" and applies
       | them to these targets.
       | 
       | I agree with this. Human trafficking is a nice way of saying
       | slavery. Human traffickers are some of the worst criminals on
       | earth and I'm very happy that the counterintelligence techniques
       | we've developed are used against them.
       | 
       | > The attempt to merge computerized counterinsurgency techniques
       | with right-wing evangelism has left some Skull Games participants
       | uncomfortable. One experienced attendee of the January 2023 Skull
       | Games was taken aback by an abundance of prayer circles and
       | paucity of formal training.
       | 
       | However, this is cultish stuff. It seems to me that Tiegs'
       | statement above is cover for what seems to be a religio-political
       | organization with overarching goals. It co-opts the good
       | intentions of decent human beings who oppose slavery and sexual
       | abuse into a situation that seems pretty exploitative on its own.
       | Despicable.
        
         | Natsu wrote:
         | This article is weird. It goes on an on about things like
         | QAnon, 9/11, etc. that are simply not connected to anything and
         | exist only to flavor the article. It says this harms people...
         | but provides one random quote and no real substantiation of
         | that. And the 'harm' seems to be that... someone might get
         | punished for breaking the law?
         | 
         | It's also not clear what they think the solution is here,
         | ignore a child being prostituted online because they might not
         | be a sex slave to a cartel? Sure, advertising under certain
         | emojis or whatever may not be "statistically significant"
         | according to some report in terms of whether someone is
         | trafficked, but if there's a child prostitute, maybe it's not a
         | bad thing if someone helps the police go make sure she's not
         | literally a child sex slave?
        
         | Hizonner wrote:
         | > Human traffickers are some of the worst criminals on earth
         | 
         | ... which is why it's so valuable to some people to expand the
         | definition of "human trafficking" beyond ACTUAL human
         | trafficking.
         | 
         | Right at the moment, if you hear the phrase "human trafficking"
         | in some random place, especially used by somebody who's asking
         | for money, power, or support of whatever kind, there seems to
         | be about a 95 percent chance it's being used to refer to
         | something that is NOT human trafficking as understood by normal
         | people.
        
           | Natsu wrote:
           | Someone going after people keeping child sex slaves doesn't
           | really seem to be stretching the definition of human
           | trafficking.
        
       | scrum-treats wrote:
       | Wow. Who could have guessed that "evangelical military vets" who
       | are programmed by cults of sexual repression, exploitation, and
       | human/sex trafficking would use surveillance tools to target
       | vulnerable populations (i.e., sex workers)... Just like the
       | FBI...
        
         | gagged_s_poster wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | foota wrote:
           | I don't think this is factual, see:
           | https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-
           | stu... or the current controversy in the methodist church as
           | an example.
        
         | anaisbetts wrote:
         | Who could've guessed that when we give law enforcement or the
         | military leeway in violating civil rights in the name of a
         | specific societal concern, they will take that power and start
         | broadening its scope
        
           | throwbadubadu wrote:
           | As always, first promise promise only for the biggest crimes,
           | terrorist et al.. then suddenly it used for someone consuming
           | weed. And then we are all excited to see what happens when
           | the next ruler with dictatorship ambitions comes into place.
           | 
           | All for the good, "I had a bad feeling when voting for it but
           | it was against the bad guys, right?" blablahblah, "noone
           | could have ever expected it", "why do people always assume it
           | goes that way" - bah.
        
         | slashdev wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | BasedAnon wrote:
         | >vulnerable populations (i.e., sex workers)
         | 
         | got a giggle out of me
        
           | pestatije wrote:
           | they need all the support we can give them
        
             | BasedAnon wrote:
             | i honestly can't tell if this is a joke
        
               | zer8k wrote:
               | Their wages should be tied to inflation, certainly.
        
       | fwungy wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | fwungy wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | ChoHag wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Retarget them at religious pedophiles. The biggest pedophile
       | problems seem to come from religious officials with the backing
       | of their organization. There's been Catholic priest scandal after
       | Catholic priest scandal.[1] The Boy Scouts of America turned out
       | to be a nest of pedophile scout leaders.[2] Brooklyn's haredi
       | community [3] and ultra-orthodox in Israel [4] had their own
       | organized pedophile rings.
       | 
       | Quit worrying about sex workers and porno. It's those well-
       | organized religious conspiracies with their claim to moral
       | authority that are the real problem.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_c...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-america-
       | have...
       | 
       | [3]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Brooklyn...
       | 
       | [4] https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/22-haredi-sex-offenders-
       | ar...
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | Any evidence for your implication that sexual abuse is more
         | common in religious organizations than secular organizations
         | that deal with children? There's about 15,000 sexual abuse
         | complaints _every year_ in schools:
         | https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/sexual-violence-
         | rep.... Every year CPS agencies receive 4.4 million referrals
         | for child mistreatment, about 10% of which relate to sexual
         | abuse: https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/canstats.pdf. About
         | 1 in 6 of the referrals overall are substantiated, suggesting
         | 50,000+ child substantiated sexual abuse complaints _annually_.
         | 
         | For comparison the John Jay report found about 11,000 sexual
         | abuse allegations against catholic priests over a 50+ year
         | period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jay_Report. There
         | are estimated to be about 12,500 victims in the Boy Scouts in
         | total: https://abcnews.go.com/US/12000-boy-scout-members-
         | victims-se....
         | 
         | That is not to say religious organizations should be off the
         | hook for failing to deal with the pedophiles in their ranks.
         | But estimates suggest 1-5% of the male population is
         | pedophiles. The evidence suggests that abuse is actually a
         | cross-cutting problem. It arises whenever you put adults in
         | proximity to children. Why focus only on the religious
         | organizations?
        
           | enterprise_cog wrote:
           | The school stat is not limited to complaints about school
           | personnel, it includes child on child violence.
           | 
           | The abusers in the church were part of the power structure.
           | That same power structure systematically covered up and
           | protected the abusers. Same thing for the scouts.
        
             | rayiner wrote:
             | That happens at schools too:
             | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oversight-failures-allow-
             | sexual....
             | 
             | This happened at my kid's (not religious at all) school:
             | https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/29/key-
             | sch...
             | 
             | It's obviously easier to uncover this when dealing with
             | large national or supra-national organizations like the
             | Catholic Church or Boy Scouts than tens of thousands of
             | individual school districts.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | The number of adults in the school system is vastly larger
           | than the number of Catholic priests.
           | 
           | There are 37,302 diocesan and religious-order priests in the
           | United States vs 3,500,000 full and 500,000 part time
           | teachers in the US + even more support staff.
           | 
           | You can look into the past demographics, but it looks like
           | there is dramatically more victims per priest per year than
           | per teacher per year.
        
             | rayiner wrote:
             | Of course--congregations are much bigger than classrooms.
             | But the figures above are cited in terms of complaints
             | (corresponding to number of victims) not number of
             | perpetrators. Thus the better comparison is how many people
             | attend school versus the number who attend Catholic Church.
             | Catholics are 1/4 of the population, and over the relevant
             | timeframe (back to 1950), probably half or more attended
             | church regularly.
        
           | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
           | John Jay Report also found that the sexual abuse has largely
           | been a problem of homosexual pederasty, not pedophilia.
        
           | zer8k wrote:
           | > Why focus only on the religious organizations?
           | 
           | Likely because OP hates religion. Their post was a reddit
           | tier hot take on an issue that transcends religious bounds as
           | you've pointed out. It's a common trope about child-abusing
           | priests but people forget the vast majority of these cases
           | occur in schools. Anything to take a shot at the church and
           | paint it as a pedophile training camp, I guess. OPs sources
           | are absolutely garbage.
           | 
           | For the downvoters here's some evidence: a 55% increase in
           | sexual assault from 2016 to 2018 in schools [0]. They
           | estimate it is likely undercounted.
           | 
           | We'd do a lot getting groomers out of school as quickly and
           | as forcefully as we can.
           | 
           | EDIT: Seems I upset the groomers on HN with this post lolz.
           | It's funny OP's trash sources are getting upvotes and I'm
           | getting downvoted to hell. Perhaps HN needs to cull it's own
           | groomer population.
           | 
           | EDIT 2: Stay mad groomers.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-
           | nea/sexua...
        
             | Supermancho wrote:
             | Perhaps posts that lead and end by hurling childhood
             | insults, paired with vague statements presenting as obvious
             | facts, is always going to be considered noise.
        
               | weaknit wrote:
               | A weak nitpick, no substantial responses to the
               | inconvenient facts provided, instead make it go away is
               | the typical hn style, just like joe biden, just pretend
               | it doesnt exist, censor, deny, and lie lie lie.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-29 23:01 UTC)