[HN Gopher] Open Source Outdoor Air Quality Monitor
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       Open Source Outdoor Air Quality Monitor
        
       Author : ahaucnx
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2023-07-29 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.airgradient.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.airgradient.com)
        
       | traceroute66 wrote:
       | Time for the usual reminder that there is a search function on
       | the bottom of every single YC page.
       | 
       | Air gradient has been extensively discussed here multiple times
       | already.
        
         | frognumber wrote:
         | I don't mind the repost. It's doing good work. It's good to be
         | reminded of it, and it's a slightly different thing each time.
         | I'll buy it when it's ready for prime time.
         | 
         | The founder reads this.
         | 
         | Founder: What's held me back from buying this is a lack of
         | github links and instructions. EVERY place you say "open
         | source" should link to the repo. The repo should have CLEAR
         | instructions for how to hack this.
         | 
         | There's a lot of copy like "We provide detailed instructions
         | and videos" but NO hyperlink to said detailed instructions or
         | videos. Any place you mention specs should link to ACTUAL
         | specs. What's your BOM? What microcontroller are you using? Do
         | I rewrite the firmware in Python? Rust? MakeCode? Etc.
         | 
         | Those are the tires I want to kick. If my child can program
         | this in MakeCode and it's designed for tinkering, it's a no-
         | brainer. If it's on github, and easy to set up to work from my
         | desktop, it's reasonable. If it involves setting up docker
         | containers and proprietary environments for hacking C code,
         | it's not as obvious a buy. If I can't figure out how to get
         | started in 30 seconds, I assume it's the last one. I have a lot
         | of projects around the house I wish I'd done, and I'm not
         | buying more until a few of those finish.
         | 
         | Also, I will never pay for your service. The whole point of
         | open everything is I control my data.
         | 
         | The other piece I'd like is a dirt-cheap set of temperature /
         | humidity tools. I bought an 8-channel weather station, so I can
         | monitor temperature indoors and in each room. I'd love to
         | switch to something more open.
         | 
         | Again, a lot of this comes down to how easy it is to get
         | started. If I can make dashboards in 5 minutes with numpy /
         | plotly / pylab / etc., I'm delighted. If I can't, but it's not
         | bad, I'm grumpier. etc.
         | 
         | So in conclusion, I'd do user studies and think-aloud protocols
         | with customers.
        
         | kayson wrote:
         | The guy who runs air gradient posts his articles here pretty
         | frequently. Not sure at what point, if any, it breaks the
         | rules. It definitely feels a little spammy to me though.
        
           | hutzlibu wrote:
           | I think there is no rule limiting new links. If it gets voted
           | up, it makes it. And reposting existing links is ok every 6
           | months or so (I think).
        
         | declan_roberts wrote:
         | I don't understand, is this a problem?
         | 
         | There's nothing new under the sun.
        
         | philshem wrote:
         | > ...there is a search function on the bottom of every single
         | YC page
         | 
         | Weird, in all seriousness, I never noticed.
        
         | triyambakam wrote:
         | I appreciate when things come up again. Obviously enough people
         | either haven't heard of it or want to talk about it again for
         | it to be upgoated to the front page.
        
           | traceroute66 wrote:
           | > I appreciate when things come up again
           | 
           | My own position on this is that there is difference.
           | 
           | If, like today's post, we're talking about what in forum-
           | slang would be a "bump" post, then as far as I'm concerned it
           | has near-zero value. Its basically just attention seeking if
           | we're being honest.
           | 
           | Meanwhile if it's re-posting a link but in the context of a
           | significant change, for example a new version with major new
           | features, then obviously it's a different kettle of fish
           | altogether. That's obviously perfectly fine.
        
             | ahaucnx wrote:
             | This page about the monitor is brand new and contains quite
             | a lot of information that has never been published/posted
             | before, e.g. the exact specs of the monitor and
             | explanations about the enclosure design.
        
       | xvfLJfx9 wrote:
       | If the device worked with ZigBee, I would get it immediately.
       | However, it seems to support only WiFi, which means if someone
       | gains physical access to the AirQuality monitor (which isn't
       | exactly difficult since it is placed outside), they can
       | potentially extract the WiFi password and gain full access to my
       | network.
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | Yes that's a good point.
         | 
         | It probably makes sense to put it on a separate WiFi network
         | (or a guest network) if access to the monitor is possible for
         | unauthorized persons.
        
           | seanp2k2 wrote:
           | Definitely recommend a separate 2.4ghz N-mode only wifi with
           | separate passphrase and client isolation on a different vlan
           | with routing only out to the internet for all IoT stuff.
        
             | hpb42 wrote:
             | I'm curious, why N-mode only? What is the issue with a/b/g?
        
       | epaulson wrote:
       | The EPA had some money from the recovery funding and then the
       | inflation reduction act to do more air quality monitoring
       | stations - the EPA gave out 132 awards around the country, my
       | city got one and we're putting up 68 sensors around town (one in
       | each census tract) - the program and the awardees are here, if
       | you're interested in seeing if your city got one:
       | 
       | https://www.epa.gov/arp/arp-enhanced-air-quality-monitoring-...
       | 
       | (My city is using QuantAQ sensors, which weren't cheap)
        
       | stevep001 wrote:
       | I'd be a buyer if you had an indoor unit with a radon sensor.
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | We have looked into adding a radon sensor but it is very
         | difficult to get an off-the-shelf radon module in the market
         | that is reasonably priced.
         | 
         | If any of you can recommend a module I would be very interested
         | to hear.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | Repackaging these sensors might be a better play than an OTS
           | procurement model. Lots of people are making pretty packages
           | for commodity sensors. Few are developing new sensor
           | packages.
        
         | cyberax wrote:
         | Why would you want a radon sensor in a product that does
         | constant monitoring?
         | 
         | Radon concentration is not a transient state, and you need to
         | measure it for a fairly long time to get a good idea of the
         | true concentration.
        
       | jhot wrote:
       | One of the Plantowers in my purple air has died and the power
       | supply is flaking out as well. Think I'll grab one of these as a
       | replacement.
        
       | majkinetor wrote:
       | Can I get the data as CSV or similar for custom presentation,
       | backup and analysis?
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | If you use our data platform, you can easily export an csv file
         | with all the data in our database. But since it is open source
         | you can also easily adjust the firmware and send the data to
         | another server.
        
       | stickac wrote:
       | Open-source is mentioned 10x on the website, but there is no link
       | to the actual source.
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | It is linked on the technical documentation [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/open-
         | airgradient/instructions/di...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ianlevesque wrote:
         | I bought one recently (it's great) and found the source here
         | https://github.com/airgradienthq/arduino
        
       | mkskm wrote:
       | Here's another one on Adafruit (more time intensive but includes
       | a VOC sensor) https://learn.adafruit.com/air-quality-sensor-silo-
       | house
        
       | zerof1l wrote:
       | I don't see any benefit in this product having two identical
       | sensors side by side. Based on the datasheet, the reading between
       | sensors is quite consistent, meaning that there's no improvement
       | in accuracy. What would be better is to have two different
       | sensors, one of which actually counts PM 10.0.
       | 
       | A little-known fact about these air quality sensors is that they
       | don't actually measure three different particle sizes, they
       | typically measure the smallest one and then return some
       | statistically determined value for the larger ones.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.digikey.jp/htmldatasheets/production/2903006/0/0...
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | There are two main advantages of having two sensors:
         | 
         | a) Data quality: You can detect if one sensor fails as the two
         | readings will start to deviate and then replace the faulty one
         | 
         | b) Extend the life of the monitor: The PM sensors with the
         | laser and optics have a limited life. By having two inside, you
         | can alternate the measurement and put them in sleep mode
         | inbetween. Thus extending the life of the monitor.
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | Just a note: can you stagger the sensor time a bit unevenly?
           | 
           | Instead of 50%/50% time split, can you do something like
           | 40%/60%? This reduces the risk of both sensors failing at
           | once because they have approximately the same duty time.
        
             | jeffnappi wrote:
             | Considering it is open source, you could do this :)
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | declan_roberts wrote:
       | I've been running the open source "stop light" design for awhile.
       | It works great but the internet is very flaky on the esp board.
       | Not entirely sure why, but easy to disable internet and just use
       | the colors.
       | 
       | It helped me identify patterns, such as CO2 settling in my large
       | living room.
       | 
       | Knowing that the CO2 levels are healthy throughout the day really
       | helps me feel better about living in a new sealed home.
        
       | xnzakg wrote:
       | How well does the USB-C cable (and the rest of the PCB!) hold up
       | outdoors? Especially in areas with salt, like near a coast or a
       | place where salt is used on the roads in winter? From what I
       | understood the sensor isn't sealed?
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | At the moment it is not sealed. We are currently looking into
         | conformal coating options and will probably have this available
         | in one of the next batches (we are currenly checking what
         | coating our PCB assembler can do).
        
       | ahaucnx wrote:
       | I'm the founder of AirGradient and last year we have decided to
       | focus our company on open hardware air quality monitors that we
       | produce professionally.
       | 
       | Our outdoor monitor Open Air has been designed from the start as
       | an open hardware project with a beautiful plastic injected
       | enclosure to demonstrate that open source hardware can look and
       | perform on the same level like traditional products.
       | 
       | We do also work intensively with research institutions around the
       | world to test the monitor and ensure that the monitors are as
       | accurate as possible [1].
       | 
       | Happy to answer any question that might come up.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/research/
        
         | cvwright wrote:
         | This is random but I'd love to hear more about what's involved
         | in designing an enclosure and getting it manufactured at scale.
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | The tooling for the plastic enclosure was quite complex and
           | time consuming. If there is interest I can write a blog post
           | about it.
        
             | smokelegend wrote:
             | That would be a interesting topic!
             | 
             | If you write it, people will read it!
             | 
             | I am one of those many people who will read it.
             | 
             | "Sharing is caring"
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | I think the website is very unclear about what you get, other
         | than part names. What can the pro do that the normal can't do?
         | Can I connect the TVOC to the non-pro?
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | The TVOC module is only for the PRO indoor kits. The BASIC
           | kit does not have space for the TVOC module.
           | 
           | The PRO comes with a nice plastic enclosure, has a larger
           | display and due to its larger size measures temperature and
           | humidity more accurately (since there is more space, the
           | temperature sensor has more distance to active components
           | that heat up).
        
         | kingsloi wrote:
         | Awesome work! Do you have any plans to add/track gas
         | pollutants?
         | 
         | I run a similar open source app specifically for my little
         | community in Gary, IN https://millerbeach.community and run a
         | RAMP monitor provided by a local company Sensit Technologies,
         | and a PurpleAir II and have about ~4 years worth of data in 15
         | min intervals. I've been meaning to swap out the PurpleAir with
         | another, but I'll swap it out with this instead!
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | We started testing electrochemical NO and NO2 sensors from
           | Alpha Sense in our lab and are in the early stages to design
           | a unit that would also measure these gases but we are many
           | months away to have something in the market.
        
             | declan_roberts wrote:
             | I can't wait for this, especially with how often gas stoves
             | are in the news lately.
        
         | CommanderData wrote:
         | I'm struggling to see the benefit of your product. Apart from
         | the outdoor element. You can buy a 4 in 1 air monitor from
         | Amazon for half the price (Co2, PM, Temp and Humidity) i.e.
         | https://www.amazon.co.uk/Indoor-Air-Quality-Monitor-Multifun...
         | 
         | There are others with 6 in 1 with app control for less.
         | 
         | Aren't there other sensors that would be more useful providing
         | better insights on pollutants and health you could provide at a
         | premium that these cheaper monitors can't.
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | We use high quality sensor modules like e.g. the SenseAir S8
           | NDIR CO2 sensor that is made in Sweden and also Sensirion
           | modules from Switzerland. These are much more expensive than
           | less accurate sensor modules that you find in many other
           | monitors.
        
         | chsreekar wrote:
         | Do you have an indoor version?
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | Yes, we also have a popular open-hardware, open-source indoor
           | air quality monitor that measures CO2, PM, Temperature and
           | Humidity. You can also get an optional TVOC module that can
           | measure chemicals and NOx.
           | 
           | This version we currently only sell as a pre-soldered kit [1]
           | but it is very easy to assemble (no need to solder anything)
           | and you just need to plug a few modules together and close
           | the enclosure with a few screws.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/kits/
        
         | cyberax wrote:
         | How good is the calibration for your temperature and humidity
         | sensors?
         | 
         | I'm absolutely miffed by the poor-quality sensors that are off
         | by 10% humidity and 2-3C of temperature. I bought several
         | sensors to try and find the best ones, and now like a man with
         | two watches I'm never sure what the actual time is.
        
           | ahaucnx wrote:
           | Most of the times the sensor modules are actually pretty
           | accurate but the heating up of the enclosure e.g. from heat
           | radiated by the MCU creates the issues. In our indoor monitor
           | it took us several months to get the airflow through the
           | enclosure right so that the temperature and humidity sensors
           | are very close to ambient.
        
             | RobotToaster wrote:
             | My Xiaomi one has exactly that problem.
        
       | SJetKaran wrote:
       | The indoor monitor looks really interesting! I bought a Aranet4
       | recently, so don't think I'll invest in another Air Quality
       | monitor soon, but I'm interested in checking this device for next
       | buy.
        
       | bozhark wrote:
       | I'm excited, this is on the build list.
       | 
       | All I need to add is moister meter and CO2 controller to be
       | complete
        
       | Brosper wrote:
       | I strongly recommend to not always trust everything because it's
       | open source. Air Quality as all different weather ingredients are
       | measure and there is a big difference how you measure. I am not
       | advocate of any "pro" solution. I just want you to know to check
       | many sources.
        
         | ahaucnx wrote:
         | Yes, I totally agree. This is why we do extensive research to
         | ensure the accurateness and reliability of the monitor against
         | reference instruments. You can read more about it on our
         | research page [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/research/
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-29 23:00 UTC)