[HN Gopher] Alcohol without the hangover - scientists are findin...
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Alcohol without the hangover - scientists are finding ways
Author : meany
Score : 50 points
Date : 2023-07-29 13:59 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| thoughtegting wrote:
| Some DHM (Dihydromyricetin) before heading out for drinks does
| the trick for me every time
| bluefishinit wrote:
| I love my IPAs but I have to admit that the UK does social beer
| right. 3% or even 2.5% ales are the way to go if you want to
| socially drink. We have a concept of a "session" beer in the US,
| which is lower ABV but the selection of really good, really low
| gravity beers is the best in the UK as far as I can tell.
| Helmut10001 wrote:
| I really like Full Sail Session IPA, every time I visit the US
| I get some. Germany is really lacking behind this hole
| development, the beer is just very poor these days here.
| fileeditview wrote:
| What are you talking about? Even most common supermarkets
| have a small variety of IPAs and other craft beers. And even
| without them there are small breweries everywhere in southern
| Germany which have great "classical" beers..
| wheels wrote:
| Crew Republic, one of the biggest German craft beer
| producers, makes a session IPA.
| walthamstow wrote:
| Londoner here. These beers exist and are part of the historic
| English beer tradition but are few and far between in city pubs
| these days. Pubs have started to stock Radlers like
| Schofferhoffer which is my go to, or a half pint (284ml/~10oz)
| of a strong beer like IPA.
| rcarr wrote:
| This. You used to be able to get a few "session ales" in pubs
| which were under 4% and meant for long drinking sessions, now
| because of the rise of craft beer you're lucky if you get
| one. Meanwhile, there's always a ton of options over 5.5%
| which used to be unheard of.
| quaffapint wrote:
| I have been on the hunt for the past year in the mid-atlantic
| area of the US looking for <4% beers. The closest I've come is
| a German grapefruit beer (Schofferhofer), but it doesn't really
| have that beer taste. Most US 'light' beers are around 4-4.2%.
|
| Moosehead for example makes a Moosehead Light for the states at
| 4%, but they also offer Cracked Canoe which is only 3.2% but
| not sold in the states (available in the Canada, UK and Costa
| Rica of all places where I tried it).
| yCombLinks wrote:
| I drink miller 64. It's 2.8%. I like it, very light.
| slenk wrote:
| Founders All Day IPA is like 4% if you can find it
| MrMan wrote:
| [dead]
| gdprrrr wrote:
| Here in Germany, it's common to mix beer and sprite 50:50 for
| a 2,5% drink. It keeps more of the beer taste than you'd
| think.
| mstipetic wrote:
| It most certainly does not
| joncrocks wrote:
| In the UK it's called a Shandy.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shandy
| User23 wrote:
| A Radler.
| shaftoe444 wrote:
| In theory yes but the problem is many people here (England) end
| up picking the session beers and then drinking 10 of them.
| drcongo wrote:
| ...before moving on to the stronger ones.
| [deleted]
| gniv wrote:
| I was first introduced to 3% beer in Norway. It was crazy
| expensive (due to taxes on alcohol) and really good. I was
| disappointed that I couldn't find anything similar in the US.
| danielfoster wrote:
| That's a shame to hear. While I understand why Norway taxes
| alcohol, placing such high taxes on a low-alcohol alternative
| encourages purchase of higher alcohol options in the same
| product category.
|
| Ideally low alchol beer would have a mild tax discount to
| encourage sustainable consumption.
| nicholasbraker wrote:
| I'm in Sweden on vacation now (and still binging HN..) and
| they have 3,5% variants of most major brand of beers like
| Carlsberg, Heineken and others, It's great! It tastes like a
| real beer, but without the buzz I usually get after a six-
| pack.
| soderfoo wrote:
| Falcon Export is my go to local beer here in Stockholm.
| It's also available in 3.5%.
|
| Hope you enjoy your visit!
| adamfarhadi wrote:
| 3,5% is actually the maximum ABV you can get in
| supermarkets in Sweden by law. For anything higher ABV than
| that you need to go to the government-owned chain called
| Systembolaget or go to a bar or restaurant that has a
| license to serve alcohol.
|
| Because of the restrictions though, craft breweries have
| been making some great <3,5% beers that they sell at
| supermarkets.
| laurels-marts wrote:
| > 3,5% is actually the maximum ABV you can get in
| supermarkets in Sweden by law. For anything higher ABV
| than that you need to go to the government-owned chain
| called Systembolaget
|
| Jesus that sounds terrible. I get the good intent I
| suppose but the hell..
| blackguardx wrote:
| It used to be the same in Colorado until recently. State
| law mandated only 3.2% alcohol by weight (~4.0% ABV)
| could be sold in grocery stores or consumed in state
| parks. It changed with a state-wide referendum.
|
| There is a theory that this law is why craft beer boomed
| in Colorado. It is easier for small breweries to sell
| beer through a mom & pop liquor store than a national
| chain grocery store. Folks were more used to buying beer
| at liquor stores than other states.
| m0llusk wrote:
| There is currently a big surge in low alcohol concentration
| brewing with a range of new options available. You should
| check out distributors for more. I find many options at Whole
| Foods so this stuff must be approaching the mainstream.
| eterps wrote:
| > 3% or even 2.5% ales
|
| I am not familiar with those, can someone give some examples of
| these types of beers?
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| This is close to home-brewed kefir.
| boomskats wrote:
| Your joke made me chuckle. I then googled it and realised
| the kefir I make and drink every morning apparently has
| 0.5-2% alcohol.
| bluefishinit wrote:
| The brown ales can be very low gravity. Usually you get low
| gravity stuff from a cask. I've had lighter ales that are
| really low too, but I think they are hard to find.
|
| https://learn.kegerator.com/london-brown-ale/
| alasdairking wrote:
| Yeah, this is like "pints of mild" in 1980s old man pubs in
| the North. I am skeptical such beers exist now in any
| mainstream pub or bar.
| ljm wrote:
| Boddy's was a staple back up north until the Manchester
| brewery at Strangeways shut down. Going back a fair while
| now though.
|
| Feels like these days the selection of cask ale is more
| limited but you have more variations on an IPA than you can
| shake a stick at.
| flir wrote:
| I can't, and I'm in the UK. Even UK-brewed Fosters, widely
| conidered to be flavoured water, is 3.7%.
| pfannkuchen wrote:
| Even humans are basically flavored water.
| [deleted]
| eggy wrote:
| Great, fry your brain and rot your liver without feeling a thing!
| Is the stock public?
|
| A hangover is feedback that you have poisoned your system that
| most animals would then learn from and avoid, but not intelligent
| humans.
| znpy wrote:
| Actually it's been observed that some animals willingly seek
| fruits that have fallen and have started fermenting to get some
| buzz.
|
| Such animals don't have an alcohol industry and a logistics
| network though.
| [deleted]
| LeanderK wrote:
| What's the purpose of live if you won't allow yourself to enjoy
| it a bit? So yeah, I'll do it, have fun and socialise with my
| friends. Of course within bounds, we're adults after all.
|
| I bet/hope there are less harmful alternatives out there but
| unfortunately there's not a lot research afaik on different
| chemicals.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Other substances are gaining popularity specifically because
| people are learning enough about them to have a conversation
| beyond grade school scare campaigns.
|
| People are objectively noticing that they can get a social
| lubricant without a hangover, without liver damage, without
| esophageal damage, without lung damage (not an alcohol thing,
| just a reference to smokers of anything), and that alcohol is
| more toxic than more tightly regulated drugs.
|
| I believe the person you were responding to was pointing that
| out, while I believe you wrote a false dilemma as nobody here
| is talking about abstaining from mind altering substances,
| they find it absurd to try to force making alcohol the
| substance of choice, given that harm reduction already exists
| for recreational use of other substances.
| tblt wrote:
| Could you share what some of these substances are?
| yieldcrv wrote:
| THC (weed)
|
| Psilocybin (mushrooms)
|
| examples of substances that fit the criteria above and
| where many people would like more research to exist on
| longer term recreational use.
| Eumenes wrote:
| This is on par with the trend of biohacking ... from ozempic,
| ADHD meds, transgender hormone therapies, to cheating hangovers
| ... You can't cheat nature, for long at least.
| drewrv wrote:
| As someone who had their appendix removed yesterday, I'm
| grateful that cheating nature can actually be done safely and
| effectively.
| pakitan wrote:
| It's not necessary for this drug to have the same negative
| effect, just because it has similar positive effect as alcohol.
| andrepd wrote:
| I don't know about you but I feel that I'm drunk long before
| the hangover kicks in :)
| hash872 wrote:
| Wasn't synthetic alcohol part of the Star Trek mythos? It's been
| a long time since I've watched TNG but I seem to remember it was
| part of their world, at one point I have a vague memory of
| someone handing Picard a bottle of 'real' alcohol and him being
| amazed- 'this is the real stuff??' he asks? Or something to that
| effect.
|
| Maybe that's what Guinan was always serving at the Enterprise
| 'bar', synthetic alcohol. (Does Data ingest it? Can he?)
| thumbuddy wrote:
| So synthesized ethanol will be the same in every respect as
| purified naturally sourced ethanol except perhaps down to the
| balance of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen isotopes.
|
| But yes startrek was/awesome regardless.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| Synthehol. It's never really fully explained how it affects you
| other than you can kind of readily shake it off.
|
| There are plenty of instances in Star Trek of people drinking
| the real stuff though. Picard himself had a family winery. I'm
| guessing he was amazed at a bottle of Romulan Ale, which was
| illegal in the same way Cuban cigars were here.
| ben_w wrote:
| In the show, Romulan Ale is also extremely strong; Worf
| nurses a hangover from it and says it "should be illegal" and
| LaForge replies "It is"; while in DS9 several of the human
| main cast infiltrated a Klingon event and had to take
| something to avoid dying from drinking so much Blood Wine.
|
| (That said, I don't know if it's been canonically stated
| Blood Wine is ethanol based, so future writers might just
| decide that's because Blood Wine is based on methanol rather
| than ethanol, and the ABV is unsurprising...)
| [deleted]
| xmddmx wrote:
| I'm drinking 12% ABV AleSmith Speedway Stout, which also has
| coffee in it. This beer is so good, it should probably be
| illegal, along with Romulan Blood Wine.
|
| That being said...
|
| I read an interesting thing about the interaction of Tylenol
| (acetaminophen / paracetamol) and alcohol.
|
| Common wisdom: "don't drink alcohol while taking Tylenol, as it
| leads to liver damage"
|
| Yes, Tylenol breakdown has a toxic metabolite. Chronic alcohol
| use induces certain liver enzymes, one of which increases this
| metabolite.
|
| So if you are a hard-core drinker, taking Tylenol is bad, in
| general.
|
| However, since alcohol is also a target of this enzyme, it's
| actually _better_ to drink alcohol with Tylenol (since the enzyme
| will prefer reacting with ethanol vs. acetaminophen) vs. taking
| the Tylenol alone.
|
| One can imagine why the FDA doesn't put that on the
| "instructions" label.
|
| (I'm not a biochemist, so don't sue me if you blow out your liver
| based on bad advice).
| funkychicken wrote:
| I love the idea of the nasal naltrexone. Naltrexone has been
| known for years to reduce the number of drinks consumed (by
| blocking opioid receptors).
|
| I wish we could figure out a better system for accessing
| medications like this -- like perhaps allowing pharmacists to
| prescribe low risk medicines in more states.
| miduil wrote:
| I've been three+ years sober, really can recommend. Life is much
| different now, things that used to be fun aren't anymore - but
| I'm making strong connections nevertheless.
| mentos wrote:
| Waking up early on a Saturday without a hangover is what I look
| forward to. I'll just sit in bed and revel in it now ha
| SavageBeast wrote:
| For my own personal experience, the worst part about drinking
| regularly - and I mean nightly if we're being at all honest -
| seems to be the people you meet. Having cut down drastically
| and switched from Volume Drinking kind of venues to Boutique
| Cocktail Venues I find I'm spending my time around a smaller,
| higher quality group of people while at the same time
| drinking less and enjoying my few drinks much more.
|
| [EDIT] I suppose in hanging out with drunks every evening, it
| normalized the idea of being drunk every night. What I was
| doing seemed normal because everyone I hung out with was
| doing the same thing. Thats a good way to start a bad habit.
| nunez wrote:
| Pacing my drinks (sip every ten minutes; bigger drink of water
| between sips) and Pedialyte or Gatorade Zero after drinking if
| I've had a lot is the only system that works for me.
|
| I'm 36 and haven't had a serious hangover[0] in a very long time.
|
| As an added bonus, since I drink way slower when doing this, I
| can enjoy my drinks more and pay less for fewer drinks.
|
| Additionally, because I drink fewer drinks when I go out, I'm
| much more selective about what I drink, which means I'll opt for
| higher quality stuff or a good NA if no good options are
| available.
|
| YMMV of course.
|
| [0] I define "serious hangover" as "unable to get out of bed;
| serious nausea; serious brain fog." The worst hangover I've had
| since doing this is mild brain fog that recovers after a few
| hours.
| 1ba9115454 wrote:
| I've switched to alcohol free beers. They're a bit sweeter but
| for me it's fine.
| eatonphil wrote:
| Likewise! I'm trying not to drink much anymore. But I always
| want something cold and fizzy. So it's a switch between
| refrigerated carafes of water, seltzer, and zero-alcohol beers.
| Although I feel incentivized not to have even the zero-alcohol
| beers since it's still 60 calories. While the seltzers I find
| are 0.
|
| Any beer recommendations? I haven't tried much outside of the
| locally-supplied zero-alcohol Heineken and Corona.
| cota wrote:
| Asahi Dry Zero has 0 alcohol, 0 calories.
| defphysics wrote:
| My favorite is Run Wild from Athletic Brewing Co.
| gniv wrote:
| > Any beer recommendations?
|
| Where? In eastern US, Athletic Brewing makes really good
| hoppy ales. The ones from Brooklyn Brewery are good too, but
| a bit heavy for my taste.
|
| In continental Europe, Germany has a large selection of
| lagers, good but not great. Clausthaler is an example. Also,
| I like the Czech beer Staropramen.
| dgb23 wrote:
| I like drinking a beer or two sometimes during the week. It's
| tasty, cool and calming. Alcohol free beer is great for that.
|
| However most alcohol free beers don't taste nice. Takes a bit
| of shopping around to find a brand that doesn't taste like
| Ovomaltine.
| thehappypm wrote:
| Brew Dog is great
| nprateem wrote:
| I checked the sugar content of one the other day and it was
| like 12% sugar or something ridiculous.
| jebarker wrote:
| Yeah, the average NA beer appears to have the equivalent of
| about 3 teaspoons of sugar. So about the same as regular
| beer.
| moribvndvs wrote:
| So far, my favorite has been Guinness' NA. It's _almost_
| imperceptible from the normal canned draught. My only real
| hangup with it is the extra plastic waste via the widget.
| jebarker wrote:
| I really like the Guinness NA too. But I heard someone say it
| had a hint of BBQ sauce to it and now I can't help but taste
| that when I drink it!
| jmspring wrote:
| Another vote for Guinness NA. Mikkeller also makes good NA
| beers, but pricey at $24/6 pack.
| andrewl wrote:
| It looks interesting. There's a good bit of information, and
| marketing, of course, at gabalabs.com.
| electrondood wrote:
| 500mg NAC before drinking, then a pint of water + fish oil + B
| vitamin complex before bed = zero hangover.
| Animats wrote:
| That's GABA Labs.[1] They've been working on this for years. They
| have a product, called "Sentia". It's plant-based and "natural",
| which avoids some regulatory problems. Their better product is an
| entirely synthetic molecule.
|
| It's self-limiting. It's said to produce a pleasant buzz, but
| more of it won't produce drunkenness.
|
| You can buy Sentia. It's insanely expensive.[2]
|
| [1] https://gabalabs.com/
|
| [2] https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits
| wincy wrote:
| It's less expensive than a good quality whiskey. Honestly I
| might try some. 50cl == 500ml, so a liter for PS54 doesn't
| strike me as even "very expensive", unless I've made some major
| metric maths error.
| Nihilartikel wrote:
| Reading about this venture to make anf popularize GABA tickling
| drug without the self limiting ill effects is worrying in the
| long term.
|
| Such things exist, and sure, one is fine.. but one a day for a
| week and then you are heading for an undescribably hellish
| withdrawal.
|
| I had a brief dalliance with Phenibut for anxiety self
| medication. It targets GABA receptors, and boy does it work. But
| read about it in the forums and then you'll find the horror
| stories of people trying to quit, or running out and having
| months of nightmares and shakes and paranoia. I noped out of that
| in time, thankfully.
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| Also used to enjoy Phenibut quite a bit. Felt a bit like
| Alcohol without the "stupid". Although the onset time wasn't
| the best to handle and there was huge difference whether I took
| it on empty stomach in the morning or at some point later in
| the day. Haven't done it for a while though. Sleep was also
| amazing. Easy to fall asleep and so sweet. Definitely shouldn't
| use very frequently like you said. Best to leave at least 2
| weeks inbetween. I had periods of using it every day.
| SomeRndName11 wrote:
| Alcohol is the most boring psychoactive substance ever, even
| Benadryl is more fun. I really do not understand those who enjoy
| the experience.
| dragonmost wrote:
| Am I wrong? No it's the other people that are wrong
| pr0zac wrote:
| You shouldn't assume the effects you get match those of other
| people. People experience different effects because of
| differences in brain/body chemistry and genetics. People that
| get "asian flush" for instance process alcohol in a way that
| results in more toxic metabolites thus making alcohol literally
| more poisonous and less enjoyable for them.
|
| Holds true for other substances as well. My brother absolutely
| loves weed and finds it relaxing but I cannot use even a small
| amount without crippling levels of anxiety. Meanwhile anything
| that works on GABA (alcohol included) completely removes
| anxiety for me in a way that's so enjoyable I have to be
| careful with the whole class of substances. Because of a
| genetic quirk modafinil has little to no effect if I take it
| but I use prescribed amphetamines 3-5 days a week. Human bodies
| are complicated!
| SomeRndName11 wrote:
| Precisely. Most people "enjoy" alcohol because it is socially
| accepted drug, but for many people so many other substances
| would be a lot more enjoyable, without collateral damage of
| alcohol for society. Alcohol is a poor choice for
| recreational drug for many, for the exceptions those who
| likes depressants.
| anthony_d wrote:
| Sounds like you didn't actually read the comment you're
| responding to. Any chance you work in politics?
| spiderice wrote:
| GP's comment is a perfectly acceptable response to GGP's
| comment. Yours however..
| xmddmx wrote:
| Are you Italian?
|
| I was shocked, about 15 years ago when some Italian friends
| (who were very drug familiar) said how much they liked that
| they could buy Benadryl (diphenhydramine) w/o a prescription
| here in the USA.
|
| I was like " _?_???* " this is not a party drug.
|
| (note: there are folks who use it in massive overdoses as an
| ACh deliriant [1] but that's not my cup of tea)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliriant
| popularrecluse wrote:
| cool
| PedroBatista wrote:
| Oh great, I'm sure this will end as well as the pain pills from
| Purdue..
|
| There is a sizable minority of people who don't have a "governor"
| when it comes to drinking, we call them alcoholics.
|
| Then there is a big group of people who have some moderation, but
| part of that "moderation" are the hangovers and by the late 20's
| they start to hurt much more than consecutive nights of boozing
| can offer.
|
| Let's hope this is yet another pseudo-science piece to fluff some
| careers and little more, otherwise I'm guessing it could in the
| early 80's again when coke "was fun and gave you energy to do
| more even at work".. ( not the company line, but the general
| feeling in the streets )
| ttul wrote:
| David Nutt is an esteemed scientist. He previously chaired the
| UK's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. He is " David
| Nutt is a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, Royal
| College of Psychiatrists and the Academy of Medical Sciences."
|
| Source: Wikipedia
| bratgpttamer wrote:
| I read something a while back where the owner/CEO/VP/Head Brewer
| of Sam Adams, who was expected to go to certain beer/brewing
| events and basically have a beer with each vendor, would eat a
| packet of yeast beforehand.
|
| He claimed it allowed him to make his rounds and sample
| everyone's beer without getting drunk/hungover.
| distortionfield wrote:
| Whoa, I had never heard of this before but there seems to be
| something to this.
|
| https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/al...
| thumbuddy wrote:
| I can't imagine a mechanism where that's plausible, but it
| wouldn't be the first time I felt that way and was shown
| something surprising. He probably just built up a tolerance.
| danwilkerson wrote:
| Sadly, debunked:
|
| https://www.mashed.com/439154/can-eating-yeast-really-
| preven....
| znpy wrote:
| That doesn't really make sense. Yeasts consume sugars and emit
| alcohol and co2 ad byproducts. They can't process alcohol and
| too much alcohol kills the yeasts.
|
| If anything, eating yeasts should make things worse, as yeasts
| might have a chance to digest some sugars and produce more
| alcohol (unlikely to happen, if you ask me)
| yuppie_scum wrote:
| I used to see Jim Koch at those events and he'd be pretty lit
| up.
| rdn wrote:
| Looks like a rebranding of GHB
| chasebank wrote:
| I think you're right. I've always wondered why they don't water
| down GHB to be the equivalent of a low ABV drink. The only
| scary thing about GHB is its relative potency to volume. It's
| honestly a wonderful drug.
| GordonS wrote:
| Didn't David Nutt suggest this several years back? I seem to
| recall hearing he was really trying to make a go of it too.
| rdn wrote:
| It is a pretty nice alternative to alcohol, and since their
| name is GABA Labs, and GHB can be synthesized from GABA, I
| assume they will be selling some analog or even rebranding
| and packaging GHB properly for consumption.
| jdjdjdjdjd wrote:
| I have discovered that for me personally, taking magnesium
| before, during or shortly after having drinks greatly reduces
| hangovers. I typically get really strong headaches the day after
| from 2-3 drinks. If I take a 100mg magnesium supplement it is
| massively reduced. Alcohol depletes magnesium from your body so I
| guess it counters that.
| Frost1x wrote:
| I just hydrate and take a multivitamin when I do plan on
| drinking a bit. And drink lots of water after.
| zgluck wrote:
| Drinking lots of water before going to bed works really well
| - when you remember doing that...
| IanCal wrote:
| In my university days I advocated for a tactical sandwich.
| Something easy to eat, probably salty like a blt and with a
| glass of water - had at the time you feel you transition
| from drunk to hungover (that's what makes it tactical). I'd
| make it before going out, and set an alarm for 3-5 in the
| morning. The alarm wakes you up, you inhale the food and
| drink and fall asleep immediately. Made (in my detailed
| scientific studies) a big difference.
|
| Drinking less would have been the much more sensible
| option.
| amelius wrote:
| +1 yes, this is the most important trick.
| pgt wrote:
| NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione, which is
| used up by your liver to break down the primary toxic
| metabolite of alcohol: acetylaldehyde. NAC is known as an OTC
| hangover "preventative," but don't take it chronically because
| it is a mucolytic and messes with other processes.
|
| Aside: as a non-alcoholic fermentation, kombucha contains a lot
| of acetylaldehyde, so avoid it during a hangover.
| mabbo wrote:
| This is interesting. I take a high absorption magnesium pill
| daily. I'm not sure what the full reasons are but it seems to
| improve my sleep apnea and mood (though the mood may be from
| sleeping better).
|
| But alcohol always seems to counteract that effect.
| kradroy wrote:
| Magnesium saves me too. I've had persistent leg cramps since my
| teens. If I look at my right calf the wrong way, it seizes up,
| _especially_ after a night of drinking. All of that went away
| when I started taking 200mg supplements daily. Big, big
| difference.
| consumer451 wrote:
| I have the exact same personal anecdote. That and also one
| glass of water per drink.
| amelius wrote:
| Chronic alcohol consumption can also cause thiamine deficiency.
| predictabl3 wrote:
| Random, but this makes me wonder about Gabapentin. I had a family
| member take it and apparently acted very erratically, and reports
| online indicate that it might have similar effects as those
| boasted by these new drinks.
|
| Can any of the (armchair) pharmacologists shine any light for me?
| Thanks! I googled some, but I think I'm too inexperienced to even
| have a foothold to know where to start for researching or really
| even knowing what I need to understand to guess at this.
| Gud wrote:
| Or better yet, legalize a wide range of drugs, slap some warning
| stickers on them. Like the Nutriscore you see in many countries,
| where an A rating won't be too bad for you(green tea) and an F
| rating will lead to certain death(Fentanyl)
| andrewstuart wrote:
| A hangover is primarily dehydration.
|
| Just drink alot of water during your drinking session or before
| bed.
| thehappypm wrote:
| It's a lot if things, but also a buildup of acetaldehyde, which
| is really nasty.
| spacemadness wrote:
| The more interesting thing here to me is the nasal spray that can
| supposedly help alcoholics want to drink less. That could help a
| lot of people stay sober-ish if it's effective, albeit there is a
| psychological component to just wanting to enter oblivion that it
| might not be effective for.
|
| Out of curiosity I tried the hangover cure on Nootropics Depot
| and found it to not really help at all. Not drinking helps the
| most so I stick with that normally these days.
| thesz wrote:
| My personal trainer once told me that athletes that become
| alcoholics belong to either endurance sports of various kinds or
| to archer or pistol shooting. The shooting sportsmen use small
| amounts of alcohol to reduce tremor [1], and small amounts of
| alcohol became bigger with time.
|
| [1]
| https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_p...
|
| The situation in endurance sports is very different. Very
| elevated count of mitochondria in cells of endurances athletes
| make their whole body a liver, basically - these mitochondria
| organelles get rid of alcohol metabolites during sleep very
| effectively. Top level endurance athlete drinks to heart content
| and does not experience a hangover the next day. It is all good
| and well for some time, athlete can drink everything for a long
| time, until he has his body physiologically depend on the
| alcohol, now this endurance athlete is an alcoholic.
|
| I saw an example of alcoholic former endurance athlete once in my
| life. It was not pretty. He drank anything he can find (or what
| he brought in) and sleep the work day throughout, delivering
| nothing.
| yawnbox wrote:
| Acetaldehyde (from consuming alcoholic beverages)(1) is a Group 1
| carcinogen, along with things like Asbestos. Does it fix that?
|
| [1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-
| prevention/understanding-...
| zaphod420 wrote:
| I've been taking zbiotic before drinking. It's a probiotic that
| eats the Acetaldehyde. It works surprisingly well!
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Yes and...
|
| This is not ambiguous: There is no safe amount that does not
| affect health.[1]
|
| "We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It
| doesn't matter how much you drink - the risk to the drinker's
| health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage.
| The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you
| drink, the more harmful it is - or, in other words, the less
| you drink, the safer it is,"
|
| It is possible that a totally sober and mentally healthy person
| can determine that the benefits of alcohol counterbalance the
| health risks. I've heard a dozen meandering explanations here
| and they all boil down to "I like it and it seems to be helping
| my life more than hurting it." That seems reasonable.
|
| However not everyone has the same risk profile, or even the
| same moral grounding, so demonstrating to others that there are
| few relative risks to alcohol consumption or not (based on your
| personal threat model) biases the threat models of others.
|
| It helps nothing to continue to reject some of the strongest
| correlations we have and risks imbuing incorrect epistemic
| biases to others via demonstration. Accept the fact that you
| are taking a risk instead of trying to brush off the scientific
| consensus and be vocal about the risks given the fact that this
| literature is not accessible to most people.
|
| [1]https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-
| of-...
| maxerickson wrote:
| In an absolute sense, it also isn't safe to take a sip of
| water.
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| No these aren't the same risk calculations and in fact use
| different measurement language - this is important because
| it's an actual argument that is fallacious and regularly
| used.
|
| This is the same poorly argued version of: "Milk is a
| gateway drug" when we're evaluating a claim like "x% of y
| users used z drug before starting y, therefore z induces y"
| but actually irrelevant when asking for causal precursors.
|
| That is a completely separate type of claim and argument.
|
| "Risk to health" increases with abstention of water, the
| direct opposite of the mechanism for alcohol.
| Etheryte wrote:
| Your own argument is exactly the same though, just for
| alcohol.
| [deleted]
| archagon wrote:
| I feel like these kinds of statements are not very helpful.
| Knowing that even a single drop of alcohol is harmful without
| calibrating that risk does not give me enough information to
| alter my behavior. Fermented foods are inherently a bit
| alcoholic; does eating them mean I'm doomed? If not, then at
| what point does imbibing alcohol turn into a real health
| hazard? What are the risks compared to, say, eating
| prosciutto or grilled meats?
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Yes well luckily there's an entire field dedicated to this
| problem: actuarial science
|
| It's pretty accurate at this point
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science
| anjel wrote:
| Why I always took 300-500mg of acetyl L Carnetine capsule
| before commencing an evening imbibing. It handily blocks
| Acetaldehyde formation quite handily. Doesn't protect your
| cardiac rhythms in the least however, and this is a another
| attendant risk of accrued long-term damage as with
| Acetaldehyde.
|
| https://www.wikihow.com/Minimize-Cancer-Causing-Acetaldehyde...
| OJFord wrote:
| The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't the
| lack of drunkenness feeling?
|
| Especially beer has improved a lot but it's not there yet, I
| don't see how developing synthetic 'alcohol' will help when we
| still can't remove, or make the drink without causing, real
| alcohol?
|
| As for hormone shots to treat an already acquired hangover... It
| seems niche/less than ideal - I don't think many people would
| want that as a regular expected thing, 'I am going to drink
| heavily and then take a hormone shot in the morning' sort of
| thing? And isn't it a solved ('banana bag') problem? Or is it the
| idea that you could buy injectable hormones for home use whereas
| you can't (and probably shouldn't want to) self-cannulate at
| home, and that's the only way(?) banana bags can work (because it
| takes more than reasonably fits in a syringe? Needs to be
| administered at a more gradual flow?)?
|
| Personally I hope we find a way to remove alcohol without
| impacting taste at all, and then you can buy either version of
| the same drinks. I'd probably still get both, I do acknowledge
| the alcohol plays _some_ role in me enjoying the drinks, but I
| can imagine having say an alcoholic pint or two, then alcohol-
| free. Or an alcoholic gin & tonic followed by AF wine. But until
| it's as good...
| mcronce wrote:
| > The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't
| the lack of drunkenness feeling?
|
| That depends on your goals. I like to catch a buzz once in a
| while but the majority of the time I'm drinking is because I
| really love the flavor of my favorite cocktails and the quality
| would be very poor as mocktails.
|
| Using a Mai Tai as an example, of I could get a couple 0ABV
| rums, I could sub clarified orange juice for the orange liqueur
| and probably have something pretty good with no booze in it.
| I'd be quite happy with that.
| OJFord wrote:
| Exactly, re-reading I think my phrasing (or rather use of
| question mark) was ambiguous but that's exactly what I mean,
| the problem _isn 't_ the lack of 'buzz', it's the taste not
| being as good.
| jebarker wrote:
| I'm not a chemist, so this may be false, but I've heard it's
| almost impossible to make NA drinks that are very similar to
| the real thing. The reason I heard is that whilst ethanol has
| no flavor itself it does enable/carry (whatever that means)
| interactions between other chemicals meaning there are flavors
| present that will never be there without ethanol. Would love to
| know if that's actually true...
| darkmarmot wrote:
| We could replace alcohol with GHB. Done.
| martinald wrote:
| GHB is horrendously addictive and has absolutely brutal
| withdrawal symptoms. It's drastically worse than alcohol in
| those two senses.
|
| Plus overdoing it even marginally (as in taking 50-100% more
| than the "recommended" dose) results in you going into a
| complete coma, which can happen with alcohol but more like
| 5-10x.
| monkey_monkey wrote:
| https://archive.is/jUUsw
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| The hangover is an essential part of drinking. It's what stops
| you from starting all over again the next day / week.
| boomskats wrote:
| I've had a subscription to David Nutt's Sentia Spirits [0] for a
| few months, which uses an extract from GABA Labs. I enjoy the
| mild effect and I do think they're onto something, but I have to
| mix it as it tastes a bit soapy (that's the red, I've yet to try
| sentia black).
|
| I like the idea that the subscription to Sentia funds the
| development of Alcarelle (the product mentioned in the article),
| but the overwhelming reason I subscribe to it is just to support
| Professor David Nutt[0]. He is a true scientist with true
| integrity and will be remembered as being on the right side of
| history. The way he was treated by the UK government at the hands
| of big booze is an absolute tragedy.
|
| [0]: https://sentiaspirits.com/ [1]:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt
| rcarr wrote:
| I also bought a few bottles of the red about 18/19 months back.
| I found that it tasted quite nice when it was mixed with orange
| juice if I remember right. It did have a very mild relaxing
| effect but it needed to be stronger, in the end I couldn't
| justify the price for what it was. I do hope they crack the
| code though and get something a bit closer to alcohol. And I
| agree about Nutt, absolute travesty that the government/UK
| media basically forced him out after his report.
| jrflowers wrote:
| I like how the FAQ has many, many different wordings of "What
| is in this?" and "How does this work?" with absolutely no
| information in response to them. It is good to not to have to
| worry about what is in a thing I'm ingesting or how or if it
| works at all.
| predictabl3 wrote:
| Yeah, four or five clicks and my BS meter is off the charts.
| Not even so much as a hint as to a keyword to Google for more
| research. :/
|
| But also, I'm rather intrigued and am doing some more looking
| now...
|
| EDIT: I can't even tell what the difference between Sentia
| Red and Black are. I can't tell if one of them actually
| contains Alcarelle (Which is hard to research since that's
| GABA Labs' former name). Folks, this is not how you do it.
| jrflowers wrote:
| It is engineered to appeal to those enlightened enough to
| move past the petty question of "What am I putting into my
| body?" to the really important questions like "Was it made
| in A Lab of some sort?"
| boomskats wrote:
| The article mentions Alcarelle trial dates are in a couple
| of years, it isn't on the market yet. The formulation in
| Sentia is just herbs, black and red are just flavours.
| Spivak wrote:
| Smart to frame it as synthetic alcohol instead of as a drug
| because the US has decided that substances that make you feel
| good are tools of the devil.
|
| The one that really gets me is pain killers. I had to recover
| from surgery in the hospital for a few days where I couldn't do
| anything but lay there and focus on the pain. The only thing they
| we're allowed to give me was Tramadol which I can only describe
| as "it doesn't make any of the pain go away, it increases your
| ability to put up with it." The doctors know it's shit, the
| nurses know it's shit, they were apologizing constantly about it.
| We had all the tools available to make me not suffer at all
| during the experience but think that "getting high" is so
| terribly evil it's worth suffering for.
| Nursie wrote:
| Same in the UK where this lot are based. It's likely to be
| banned as soon as the active ingredient is revealed IMHO.
| thumbuddy wrote:
| The war on drugs has done incredible damage to chronically ill,
| and patients suffering severely. The amount of relief patients
| could get from debilitating pain was far better in the 1800s
| than it is today.
|
| People often end up rehospitalized or denied care entirely
| because their pain or anxiety goes unmanaged or because they
| "might maybe be drug seekers".
|
| Our current laws have fast tracked ordinary people to heroin or
| otherwise dealers. Difficult to imagine that wasn't part of the
| point of them...
| pharmakom wrote:
| Substances that make you feel good are for the elite youth when
| attending Harvard, Yale, Oxford, ... not for the regular joe.
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