[HN Gopher] Intel returns to profitability after two quarters of...
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       Intel returns to profitability after two quarters of losses
        
       Author : bluedino
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2023-07-27 20:23 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
        
       | fatfingerd wrote:
       | By cost cutting measures, replacing the unrealistic dividends
       | phase.. I have no idea why a ex-monopoly taking every action it
       | can think of for accelerating its descent in market share would
       | be seen positively for getting to barely profitable by steps that
       | are no doubt sacrificing future sales.
        
         | dwallin wrote:
         | Because much of investor behavior is (arguably rationally) not
         | driven by business fundamentals, but how they assume other
         | investors will act. This can lead to counterintuitive and self-
         | fulfilling group think behavior where the metrics might drive
         | the stock price because of an incorrect perception that others
         | value that metric, regardless of actual sentiment.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | They've been promoting MBAs to leadership for years, it lead to
         | the down turn and apparently they've figured out a new
         | financial gimmick.
        
         | rossdavidh wrote:
         | Taking devil's advocate position here:
         | 
         | 1) dividend was not (any longer?) rational, since they needed
         | to reinvest in production process improvements; this is
         | therefore a good CEO decision, which gives confidence to stock
         | owners that CEO can do what needs to be done
         | 
         | 2) "five nodes in four years", i.e. acceleration to catch up in
         | process capability, is said to be on track, which (if actually
         | true) is good news
         | 
         | 3) this was the "pain for future gain" part of Gelsinger's
         | turnaround plan, so if they can actually make a profit even
         | during this phase, that is good news
         | 
         | Not sure if I believe any of this, but that's my take on why it
         | might be reason to buy the stock. Not that I am, in fact,
         | actually buying the stock.
        
         | atomicnumber3 wrote:
         | The market is weird.
         | 
         | It might have jumped because the market was pricing in a faster
         | decline and it beat expectations, causing a correction.
         | 
         | It could also be because earnings reports are times of higher
         | volatility for a stock, and people will use derivatives to make
         | certain bets around it. And then the earnings results can cause
         | them to take decisive action to exit those positions, which
         | might not be happening in the spot market but the spot market
         | can feel the ripple effects of big movements in derivatives.
         | 
         | Or maybe a bunch of meme investors are buying intel because it
         | had good news and there's nothing more sophisticated than that.
         | 
         | The market is weird, and it's especially weird on short time
         | scales. Let's wait a week and see where they land.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | So every sale went down? And the stock still went up because
       | profits went up?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Likely the lower sales were already priced into the stock
         | price, and it was the stronger-than-expected forecast that
         | caused the stock bump.
        
       | LordShredda wrote:
       | Imagine being down 15% YoY and STILL making 12.9 billion
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | Intel made money this quarter, but only because of a $2 billion
         | dollar tax rebate. Without that they're still losing money.
        
       | sixhobbits wrote:
       | Is this an accounting trick to look profitable or is it normal
       | and reasonable?
       | 
       | > Effective January 2023, Intel increased the estimated useful
       | life of certain production machinery and equipment from five
       | years to eight years. When compared to the estimated useful life
       | in place as of the end of 2022, Intel expects total depreciation
       | expense in 2023 to be reduced by $4.2 billion. Intel expects this
       | change will result in an approximately $2.5 billion increase to
       | gross margin, a $400 million decrease in R&D expenses and a $1.3
       | billion decrease in ending inventory values.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | >Is this an accounting trick to look profitable or is it normal
         | and reasonable?
         | 
         | It seems normal and reasonable to me with their change in
         | direction to making chips for others. Previously Intel (for the
         | most part) needed to rapidly depreciate hardware and move to
         | the next process node to stay competitive. Now they can
         | continue running a process node far beyond what they would have
         | historically to create a cheaper chip-line for third parties.
        
           | greenknight wrote:
           | They have been talking about being a foundary for external
           | use for a while, years... yet i have not heard of a single
           | customer yet, just an announcement today that intel and
           | ericsson have a partnership.
           | 
           | It feels like yes they want to become a external foundary,
           | but they just havent fully committed to that task yet.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | It is both normal and reasonable and an accounting trick. The
         | entire concept of depreciation is an accounting trick. Albeit a
         | useful trick if you ask me.
         | 
         | Look at cash flows if you don't like accounting tricks.
        
         | marricks wrote:
         | Could be a benefit from being stuck on the same node for longer
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | Interesting that this is allowed under GAAP.
        
         | drumhead wrote:
         | To make profits look better. It's why analysts tend to build
         | Thier own p&l from the accounts and focus on the free cash flow
         | instead.
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | How much of this is due to salary cuts, benefits/bonus cuts,
         | and layoffs? I live in an area with a lot of Intel campuses and
         | I know a ton of people that were laid off, had their salary
         | cut, no bonuses, etc.
        
         | qwerty3344 wrote:
         | fwiw Google did the same trick with their servers
        
           | metaphor wrote:
           | Likewise Nvidia...buried in supplemental CFO commentary[1]
           | circa FY23 Q4:
           | 
           | > _Starting in fiscal 2024, we are extending the useful lives
           | of a majority of our servers, storage, and network equipment
           | from three years to a range of four to five years, and
           | assembly and test equipment from five to seven years. As a
           | result, we expect favorable impact to operating income of
           | approximately $26 million in the first quarter and $133
           | million in fiscal 2024 from a reduction in depreciation
           | expense based on equipment balances as of January 29, 2023.
           | The favorable impact will be primarily in operating expense,
           | and to a lesser extent in cost of goods sold._
           | 
           | [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1045810/000104581
           | 023...
        
       | bratao wrote:
       | I've always been a fan of AMD, but I must admit, Intel is making
       | some impressive strides in the Machine Learning field, especially
       | with tools like OpenVINO. The process of converting models to
       | ONNX and running them in an accelerated manner on Intel GPUs has
       | become significantly easier compared to using ROCm.
       | 
       | If Intel continues on this trajectory, it wouldn't be a shocker
       | to see them leapfrog AMD and give NVIDIA a run for their money.
        
         | synergy20 wrote:
         | what does openvino run on that is accessible to normal
         | developers? amd has GPU cards for me to use and mi250 mi300 for
         | data centers Nvidia has more of those.
         | 
         | I'd like to have hardware to play with oneapi,openvino,but do
         | not know where the hardware is
        
           | mepian wrote:
           | Any Intel Arc GPU will run it, as far as I know. I bought an
           | A750 for myself to experiment with Level Zero/SPIR-V and
           | SYCL.
        
             | synergy20 wrote:
             | thanks,will buy one
        
           | selectodude wrote:
           | It'll use the built in GPUs on any newer intel CPU.
           | Otherwise, Arc.
        
         | bogota wrote:
         | In the last year we made a 180 from growth at all costs to
         | profit at all costs. Would be crazy if the market just valued
         | consistent sustainable growth but im sure some economist would
         | tell me this is stupid
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | I wish they'd let me buy an Arc A310.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-27 23:00 UTC)