[HN Gopher] Depthboot - Your Chromebook, your way
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Depthboot - Your Chromebook, your way
        
       Author : lwhsiao
       Score  : 238 points
       Date   : 2023-07-27 03:34 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (eupnea-linux.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (eupnea-linux.github.io)
        
       | omjha wrote:
       | I actually picked up a Pixelbook Go off ebay this week because I
       | wanted a really nice quality laptop for Linux. Getting things
       | figured out was kind of hellish (I'm working on a guide) but I
       | was looking into Depthboot yesterday as a way to see if I could
       | get audio working (the custom kernel seemed like it had better
       | chances).
       | 
       | Ended up not working, as Depthboot requires you to build your own
       | images and there's a problem where the builder gets stuck on the
       | DE step (and also the github seems to imply the project might be
       | getting sunset?)
       | 
       | In my experience, follow MrChromebox's firmware utility guide to
       | set up UEFI firmware, use a recent kernel as they have good
       | support for most chrome os devices, and for audio the absolute
       | amazing https://github.com/WeirdTreeThing/chromebook-linux-audio
       | solved like 3 days of headache for me with one script.
       | 
       | I'd highly recommend it. Picked up an i5/16GB/128GB config for
       | ~$200 and it's hardware on par with my M1 Macbook Air, and the
       | first x86 laptop I've owned with battery life to match,
       | especially with Arch. Amazing value and I think my favorite linux
       | device ever.
        
         | zinekeller wrote:
         | > (and also the github seems to imply the project might be
         | getting sunset?)
         | 
         | It seems that the custom distro (similar to Asahi Linux for
         | Macs with Apple Silicon) is the one being sunsetted, not this
         | one
         | 
         | > EupneaOS (Discontinued)
         | 
         | > Some of you may have noticed EupneaOS has been removed from
         | most pages, this is due to the development of EupneaOS being
         | stopped. The sole focus will be on maintaining and improving
         | Depthboot, for more information please checkout our Discord.
        
       | amilios wrote:
       | Anyone able to give a quick rundown how this works without
       | modifying the firmware?
        
         | chronogram wrote:
         | By enabling developer mode and running "sudo crossystem
         | dev_boot_usb=1 dev_boot_signed_only=0" to allow booting
         | alternative images. Then you can boot USB based images and they
         | don't have to be signed.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | I have no idea. I was under the impression that only google
         | could sign images that the firmware will boot.
        
         | jojobas wrote:
         | And why sharing what exactly is "illegal" as per their FAQ?
         | 
         | Edit: apparently anyone can build their image, but distributing
         | a ready image would be in breach of trademarks (not licenses).
        
           | shultays wrote:
           | it is as if linux desktop people hate having users
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | WTF are you both talking about? and why legality/illegality
             | is even mentionned here?
        
               | jojobas wrote:
               | Their FAQ has a "why is distributing our images illegal"
               | section.
               | 
               | Not sure why that would mean hating users, distributing
               | modified software while keeping their trademarks is
               | always a no-no, at least with Linux it's possible to just
               | rebrand (which these guys don't want to do).
               | 
               | I guess they could ask to merge their stuff upstream and
               | get away from these roundabout ways.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | Well it depends of the distro.
               | 
               | - Archlinux has clear trademark policies that allows you
               | to distribute derived product as long as it is not done
               | with a commercial intent.
               | 
               | - Ubuntu policies mention asking them for permission, I
               | guess Eupnea just didn't bother.
               | 
               | - Debian trademark policy do not mention derived work, my
               | wild guess is it would be allowed as they say you can use
               | their trademark to promote debian and distributing a
               | lightly modified version that works on more devices looks
               | to me like promoting debian work. In doubt I would still
               | ask.
               | 
               | - Pop!OS do not have a public trademark policy, so Eupnea
               | would have to ask.
               | 
               | - Fedora trademark says you can do it if you are using
               | their secondary mark: Fedora Remix. And they facilitiates
               | this with the existence of 3 packages generic-logos,
               | generic-release, and generic-release-notes that need to
               | replace fedora-logos, fedora-release, and fedora-release-
               | notes packages in your distro (you can also do your own
               | derivatives). Not a huge deal.
               | 
               | So basically Eupnea is lying. They just don't want to
               | bother. In 1 or 2 cases, it is clear that it can
               | distribute it as is, in 2 cases it needs to ask
               | permission before arguing it is or not possible and in
               | the last case they can distribute it as is but need to
               | advertise it differently (fedora remix instead of fedora
               | and replacing 3 packages).
        
               | jeroenhd wrote:
               | This sounds like a pretty annoying thing to keep on top
               | of. I would do the same thing in their position to be
               | honest.
        
             | igravious wrote:
             | They add some of their own sauce to each of the distros.
             | (This you're allowed to do (and do very easily because it's
             | free (as in freedom) software). What you're not allowed do
             | is build an ISO of the result and distribute and still call
             | it Arch or Pop!_OS or whatever (because ... _drumroll_ ...
             | it isn 't any more). You can't expect Distro makers to be
             | getting user support requests from users from custom
             | versions of their distros that a 3rd-party made.
             | 
             | All this is obvious and perfectly reasonable when you think
             | about it. And without free software it'd be difficult for a
             | non mega-corp to create and maintain a project like this.
             | So what you see as user hostile is actually users being
             | allowed an able to try shiny new software on their
             | proprietary hardware/software combo.
             | 
             | So your snark is unnecessary.
        
           | igravious wrote:
           | That's answered in the FAQ:
           | 
           | https://eupnea-linux.github.io/faq#why-is-sharing-
           | depthboot-...
           | 
           | "The Depthboot base distros all allow image/iso/rootfs
           | sharing, but only in an unmodified form. The Depthboot script
           | customizes some internal distro behavior (for example it adds
           | our eupnea packages) and thereby creates modified images. To
           | allow modified images to be shared, all trademarked content
           | would have to be removed, i.e. all Distro logos."
        
         | war-is-peace wrote:
         | chromebooks can boot from other sources in developer mode,
         | pressing ctrl + u on startup brings up a generic SeaBIOS when
         | certain flags are enabled from crosh
        
       | burnte wrote:
       | This looks great, I'm going to try it on my Galaxy Chromebook 2,
       | but aside from that:
       | 
       | "git clone --depth=1 https://github.com/eupnea-linux/depthboot-
       | builder && cd depthboot-builder && ./main.py"
       | 
       | STOP GIVING INSTRUCTIONS LIKE THESE. Holy crap, people will copy-
       | paste malware right into their boxes if we let this become the
       | new normal.
        
         | grrdotcloud wrote:
         | Is the alternative to source every dependency and inspect for
         | any known exploit?
         | 
         | The (current) repo owner perhaps - is
         | https://github.com/QuantumChilipepper
         | 
         | He describes himself as "Spicy Boi"
        
       | shortrounddev2 wrote:
       | I had a chromebook which required you to open it up and flip a
       | hardware switch to allow write access to the OS. Have to open it
       | up and push the switch with a little screwdriver.
        
         | brocha wrote:
         | My pixelbook is the same way. However, I custom made a debug
         | cable so I wouldn't have to pull the battery out which often
         | destroys it because of all the adhesives they use
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | That's probably the best way to "lock down" a machine while
         | also keeping it in use after the manufacturer decides that it's
         | not worth their time to support. Lock it down for most people,
         | but unlock it for those who know what they're doing.
        
         | gh02t wrote:
         | I had a Asus Chromebox that did this and I actually always
         | thought it was a good compromise. Still let me install my own
         | OS with minimal hassle (case was well designed, screw was easy
         | to get to), but normal users can get the security of a locked
         | down bootloader.
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | Ah yes, that was it; a screw. Asus C201 or something like
           | that
        
       | asimovfan wrote:
       | Somehow this doesn't work in my tiger lake chromebook. Actually
       | it works, but the final "install-to-internal" script fails, it
       | somehow gets stuck at the wipefs command.
        
       | insanitybit wrote:
       | I'm using a Chromebook 100% of the time. It's a great experience.
       | The primary limitation is that the dev environment is a bit
       | quirky - it's not running directly on the virtual machine,
       | instead it's in a container. This can lead to some weird stuff
       | when you're trying to do other containery things or if you need
       | to run a nested virtual machine.
       | 
       | I've created a script to set up an EC2 instance, rsync changes
       | from my project directories over to it, and manage the instance
       | state to save money. This pretty much solves any issues.
       | 
       | I really like a couple of things:
       | 
       | 1. It is the only OS that "just works" for me. It's the only non-
       | Windows that I can actually plug multiple monitors into and not
       | have it flip out and freeze for minutes.
       | 
       | 2. It keeps risky stuff (code development) isolated from
       | sensitive stuff (web browsing). If I SSO in my web browse and
       | install malware in my devbox I'm actually pretty safe.
       | 
       | 3. I get to use debian, which works well for me.
       | 
       | 4. It's the only OS that feels truly multiuser. I can `ctrl + alt
       | + .` to switch desktops to a totally different user and users are
       | completely isolated with distinctly encrypted directories so if
       | one person is logged in and another isn't you can't just access
       | their stuff. This worked really well when I was using ChromeOS
       | for work since my work profile was very isolated from my personal
       | environment - I could follow 'work profile' stuff like "only
       | install these extensions" while doing whatever I wanted in my
       | personal profile.
       | 
       | Basically it's everything I want in a laptop and nothing I don't
       | want. The main limitation is the VM, but the limitations are
       | sorta niche - I doubt many people need to run Firecracker.
        
         | ufmace wrote:
         | I pretty much agree. I'd only add that container stuff seems to
         | work fine for me, including everything I've tried with docker
         | and docker-compose, and I haven't felt the need to do anything
         | on a remote instance. The only thing I haven't been able to get
         | working locally (yet) is minikube, but I can live with that for
         | now.
        
           | insanitybit wrote:
           | Yeah actually most container stuff should handle it well,
           | it's really nested VMs that are tricky, or if you're manually
           | working with user namespaces.
        
         | linsomniac wrote:
         | I tried using a Chromebook as my primary home machine (so
         | browsing, plus remote access to my work Linux machine for work
         | stuff like programming or fixing production issues, ansible,
         | etc)... It worked great for 95% of things.
         | 
         | The remaining 5% were mostly small things EXCEPT for one: I'd
         | occasionally like to do some video editing (cutting up work
         | screen recordings, making youtube videos, family videos). And
         | to solve that, I ended up getting my first Mac. It totally
         | solves the video editing problem, even allowing me to make
         | videos on a laptop rather than being tied to a desktop (the
         | only previous option that even half-way worked).
         | 
         | One thing that really irks me about MacOS, that ChromeOS has
         | down is updates: ChromeOS it takes <30s to do a full system
         | update and be back in business. For MacOS, I can count on my
         | machine being out of commission for an hour.
        
           | insanitybit wrote:
           | Yeah I think part of the problem is that ChromeOS relies on
           | the Android SDK for apps. I'd rather Android provide a native
           | SDK for apps that really require fine tuned performance -
           | something like video editing is a good example.
        
         | IE6 wrote:
         | > 1. It is the only OS that "just works" for me. It's the only
         | non-Windows that I can actually plug multiple monitors into and
         | not have it flip out and freeze for minutes.
         | 
         | This sums up my experience completely - I used linux for over a
         | decade and finally got tired of the little annoyances that no
         | desktop environments seemed to solve. ChromeOS wraps it all up
         | (presumably because the hardware is known and the OS is built
         | against that hardware). And then Crostini allows me to do all
         | the fun full stack development things (like k8s, minikube,
         | docker, etc.)
        
         | malkia wrote:
         | Same here, I'm happy Google Eve user since 2017 or was it 2018.
         | The little beast has 16GB of RAM, and initially I was using
         | crouton, but one crostini got better I switched to it. There
         | are little things that are missing:
         | 
         | - No idea how to compile/link/load kernel modules. This is
         | rarely needed, but can happen. - No Vulkan support yet, OpenGL
         | / ES seems to be fine.
         | 
         | Mmm.. that's pretty much it... And yes, Bonuses:
         | 
         | - Android! - As posted above said - web browsing, NetFlix (DRM
         | support)
         | 
         | And lately, since I've returned to the office and left my
         | Windows machine at home while waiting for beefier at the
         | office, started using Chrome Remote Desktop and that works
         | super well with additional huge monitor and first time noticed
         | how well the laptop also supports multiple monitors.
         | 
         | As last bonus: It can flip around and become an "iPad". Perfect
         | when we were visiting our niece and I gave their 2 year old to
         | watch youtube kinds on it.
        
           | malkia wrote:
           | I have only one real complaint: - I can't find any newer
           | chromebook laptop with 32GB of RAM (or even 16GB, apart from
           | mine). Feel like 32GB is going to make it a lot better to use
           | for development.
        
             | seized wrote:
             | Then you'll love the Framework Chromebook, up to 64GB RAM:
             | 
             | https://frame.work/laptop-chromebook-12-gen-intel
        
               | malkia wrote:
               | Oh thanks a lot! Awesome!
        
             | insanitybit wrote:
             | Dell used to sell one with 32GB, and thankfully I grabbed a
             | few at the time. Next time I'll probably end up grabbing a
             | Framework.
        
               | malkia wrote:
               | ditto! THanks a lot for that one!!!
        
       | Jeff_Brown wrote:
       | This is exciting. I was shocked to discover I could not change
       | the OS on the Dell 3120 Chromebook I bought. Nor can I update the
       | Chrome browser it includes to a version that understands HBO Max,
       | which was why I bought it.
        
         | KetoManx64 wrote:
         | Did you remove the write peotection screw?
         | https://joshuawoehlke.com/galliumos-dell-chromebook-3120/
        
         | alamortsubite wrote:
         | There's no problem changing the OS on your 3120. I have a bunch
         | running Debian. As a sibling comment points out, the first step
         | is to remove the write-protect screw. It's very easy to do.
        
       | vlark wrote:
       | There needs to be a way to do this same thing with MediaTek and
       | Snapdragon ARM-based Chromebooks. MediaTek and Qualcomm need to
       | let their firmware and bootloaders allow ARM-based Linux distros
       | to be installed on bare metal. Too many cheap Chromebooks that
       | schools purchase use ARM-processors and get consigned to the
       | e-cycle bin when they can continue to be useful low-end machines
       | if only we could easily get pure Linux on them.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | FWIW, postmarkos supports at least some ARM Chromebooks -
         | https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Chrome_OS_devices
        
       | jordanreger wrote:
       | just a note: the owner (?) of the project has gone on some sort
       | of archiving spree, and has hacked (?) the discord and github
       | accounts of the real owner...
        
         | jonas-w wrote:
         | One of the former main devs posted this on discord:
         | 
         | "Sooo here is a timeline: 1. WTT (the other core dev) left 2. I
         | decided to also leave (see message in #announcements) 3. I gave
         | the discord server, subreddit and github to QuantumChilliPepper
         | 4. QuantumChilliPepper didnt really do anything, then went on a
         | vacation, came back and went completely m.i.a. for over a month
         | 5. Hackernews talks about eupnea 6. QuantumChilliPepper got
         | compromised (at least eupnea email, github and discord) 7.
         | Hacker deleted a lot of important channels and after messing a
         | bit finally have back the server"
        
           | jordanreger wrote:
           | yeah i watched this all go down - it was a nightmare lol
        
       | rollcat wrote:
       | I always loved the premise of the Chromebook: disposable device
       | with a disposable OS; secure by default; your data is always
       | backed up; if you have any doubts or problems you can always
       | restore to the factory image and be back in action within
       | minutes, etc.
       | 
       | I would love to see these principles implemented in a privacy-
       | respecting manner: bring your own device, choose your identity
       | provider (including self-hosted options that integrate with e.g.
       | email or even plain old SSH), choose your storage backend
       | (including other clouds but also e.g. Syncthing, SFTP...).
       | 
       | Immutable / secure-by-default OS would also be interesting, but
       | nothing else out there is quite like ChromeOS. NixOS/Guix would
       | be good candidates, but the underlying scaffolding is quite
       | complex. Alpine & OpenBSD are both radically simpler, but lack
       | the aspect of trivially reproducible builds. Then of course
       | there's the question of providing a good UX on top of that base:
       | I want to connect to Wifi, select the ID provider, type my
       | username/password, and start working. That's an enormous gap to
       | close.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | > I always loved the premise of the Chromebook: disposable
         | device with a disposable OS; secure by default; your data is
         | always backed up; if you have any doubts or problems you can
         | always restore to the factory image and be back in action
         | within minutes, etc.
         | 
         | As long as device can be reused, wiped completely and supplied
         | with new OS etc. otherwise "disposable device" we should avoid
         | at all cost as that is not green.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | In this case (Linuxifying Chromebooks), it would be green
           | because the supported Chromebooks are pretty ancient and
           | available in large quantities from refurbishers.
        
           | ikurei wrote:
           | I see disposable as having several meanings here.
           | 
           | If it means crappy quality and unreparable, something that
           | will last for a couple of years tops, I agree that is
           | terrible.
           | 
           | It could also mean decent quality that will last, but is
           | cheap enough that you won't worry too much about it being
           | damaged or lost or stolen.
           | 
           | I love my Macbook, and my previous one is still going strong
           | after 8 years, in the hands of a family member with lower
           | need for computational power, but I hate carrying around a
           | device so expensive. I don't dare eat near it, and I wince
           | whenever my backpack bumps on something.
           | 
           | I miss the careless freedom of carrying around a cheap,
           | crappy linux laptop.
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | Maybe we should use word "reusable" instead. It still
             | carries those points, but does away with suggesting that
             | device may be tossed to the bin once you are done with it:
             | 
             | > reusable device with a replaceable OS; secure by default;
             | your data is always backed up; if you have any doubts or
             | problems you can always restore to the factory image and be
             | back in action within minutes, etc.
        
             | bzzzt wrote:
             | If the result of making hardware inexpensive is people
             | getting careless about damage that's a loss imo.
        
               | balder1991 wrote:
               | It's not about being careless, it's about not being
               | overly worried and limited on what you can do with it.
        
           | rollcat wrote:
           | u-24tb1.112xlarge in us-east-1 is $218.40/h and you can
           | dispose of it after a few minutes of use. Does AWS physically
           | throw away the hardware?
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | > I want to connect to Wifi
         | 
         | To quote that xkcd, I'll need a research team and 5 years.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | A few UEFI firmwares support netboot from a URL over wifi.
         | 
         | With that, you could set up a special secret URL which you'd
         | type in on system boot, and have your personal OS loaded for
         | you, complete with your settings and data, on any machine.
         | 
         | The local hard drive could be used as an encrypted cache so
         | that it's only slow the first time you boot up.
         | 
         | Sadly, support for wifi from UEFI is rare, and bugfree booting
         | over the network is tricky to get working on a wide variety of
         | hardware.
        
           | rollcat wrote:
           | The URL wouldn't have to be secret. You should not be baking
           | secrets into an OS image anyway. But this is a very cool
           | idea! Just specify e.g. https://start.example.com as your
           | boot URL to get to the installer; you can point the system at
           | your personal data later.
           | 
           | macOS (at least on Intel) is able to download and start the
           | installer from the Internet, straight from the UEFI
           | environment - you just have to hold the right magic button
           | combination. I've only done this once, but it felt like one
           | of those ideas, "why isn't every computer in the world able
           | to do this".
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | iPXE allows you to do this too, with some hackery. I've also
           | done this with wired connection and menus for remote VM
           | installs.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > secure by default; your data is always backed up; if you have
         | any doubts or problems you can always restore to the factory
         | image
         | 
         | I found that Qubes OS provides all of that for me, without any
         | reliance on megacorporations. All software runs in VMs, which
         | are automatically backed up and can be restored to a state
         | before reboot easily. VMs run Linux and Windows, so all apps
         | are working as expected (except those relying on GPU). And the
         | UI is great.
        
         | shortrounddev2 wrote:
         | I coded on a chromebook throughout college. It was the crucible
         | of learning software development in the mid-2010s because you
         | had to improvise. Most assignments were in Java back then (from
         | what I understand, colleges teach mostly python now) and I
         | couldn't run eclipse (the standard IDE used in college at the
         | time). I ended up renting a VPS from Vultr for $5/mo and
         | SSH'ing in. I coded everything in vim with no debugger or code
         | completion, and compiled everything with makefiles.
         | 
         | Classes usually only required a single java file to turn in
         | your work, which was then compiled and run automatically with
         | the results being verified by another program, so as long as
         | your individual java file output the same results as what was
         | expected, it didn't matter what build system (if any) you used.
         | 
         | The only other class that didn't use java was systems
         | programming, where we did C. I had been doing C since I was 12
         | at that point, and since I was already using ubuntu server via
         | ssh, it wasn't a difficult class at all for me.
         | 
         | For my OS final, we had to write an operating system simulator
         | (a program which simulated the kind of events that would occur
         | in an OS: new processes, processes being deleted, memory
         | paging, single process multi-tasking with pre-emption). I
         | didn't actually read the instructions and ended up writing a
         | kind of hypervisor(?) which ran programs in an 8080 emulator
         | with some of my own custom instructions for memory banking and
         | forking to meet the requirements of the class (your program had
         | to be able to do memory paging up to something like 512mb of
         | RAM).
         | 
         | You had to have some kind of user interface, so I wrote it as a
         | web server in C with a custom HTTP server implementation. The
         | program returned an HTML page which looked like a desktop. You
         | could spawn terminal windows and run specific programs. I wrote
         | a few long-running programs which printed out numbers to
         | demonstrate memory paging and process pre-emption. There was a
         | special instruction I made to fork the program so you could
         | clone a process from another process, and I used one of the
         | unused flag register bits to signify which fork the program
         | was.
         | 
         | The professor was impressed by the implementation (and I
         | implemented all the algorithms required to get 10 points extra
         | credit), but because I didn't actually write an OS simulator
         | (closer to an actual OS, but not quite there), he gave me 100%,
         | but no extra credit. I was happy with that, because I'm not a
         | grade chaser.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, I failed the class because I couldn't answer
         | trivia on the exam like "What does GRUB stand for" because I
         | spent the whole semester working on the hypervisor and not
         | actually going to any of the lectures. I just read the textbook
         | and coded in C at the library.
         | 
         | Here's the very rough code, with a slightly buggy 8080 emulator
         | implementation:
         | 
         | https://github.com/ShortRoundDev/8080-Remote
        
           | rollcat wrote:
           | This is one of the most random, slightly off-topic, and
           | absolutely amazing stories I've ever read in my life. So much
           | of it rings familiar, down to (almost) failing the exam on
           | trivia questions :)
           | 
           | BTW have a look at this blog post:
           | <https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2023/faas-in-go-with-wasm-
           | wasi...>. It uses a lot of off-the-shelf components like a
           | WASM runtime instead of a custom 8080 emulator, and net/http
           | rather than rolling your own HTTP server - but it's
           | fascinating, how close your crazy project ended up from
           | actually viable real-world use cases.
        
       | atorodius wrote:
       | Is there a Chromebook people can recommend? I would like to
       | replace my 7y old MBP woth one for light office work and such.
        
         | grrdotcloud wrote:
         | Google Pixelbook Go has been great.
        
         | wgjordan wrote:
         | For replacing a MBP, here are some higher-end models I'd
         | recommend (2K+ display, 16GB+ ram, 12th gen Intel i5/i7):
         | 
         | - HP Dragonfly Pro Chromebook - i5-1235U, super-bright 1200-nit
         | display - $999.99
         | 
         | - Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition - i5-1240P, upgradable
         | (only 8GB RAM but supports up to 64GB), modular, repairable; no
         | touchscreen - $999.00
         | 
         | - Acer Chromebook Spin 714 (specifically CP714-1WN-720J) -
         | i7-1260P, solid 360deg hinge - $1099.99
        
           | evilos wrote:
           | I had no idea people paid that kind of money for chromebooks.
           | I was under the impression it was firmly in the three to six
           | hundred dollar range.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | You get what you pay for, and, well, the $1,000 -$1,200 set
             | is nicer than the $300 - $600 set.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | Can you share what Chromebook you have, and do you use it for
       | light programming or something else?
       | 
       | The other day I read that there's an Android Studio for
       | Chromebook, which kind of surprised me, in a pleasant way.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Given the experience of using Android Studio on regular
         | computers, and the hardware of most Chromebooks, that is most
         | likely targeted for people that like to suffer.
        
         | rkeene2 wrote:
         | I've been using Linux and UNIX (Solaris, HP-UX) on my
         | workstation since 1999. I did a 2 year experiment on using a
         | (non-rooted) Chromebook as my only machine and it works fine
         | for everything except the terrible window management, very
         | basic UI, and occasionally having access to the system to debug
         | peripherals.
         | 
         | I'm back on Linux using XFCE, and it's much better being able
         | to set hotkeys to what I want.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | HP Dragonfly Pro Chromebook. I don't use it for "light"
         | programming, I just use it for anything. I picked this hardware
         | because the display backlight is extremely bright and it can be
         | used outdoors under any conditions.
        
         | cj wrote:
         | I'm using 4-5 year old Pixelbooks. I think they're discontinued
         | now probably because the high price point ($999).
         | 
         | But they last an extremely long time, durable, fast, simple.
         | 
         | I don't use it for development, more so for day to day web
         | browsing and when traveling since it's smaller and thinner than
         | average laptop.
         | 
         | I really don't know what chromeOS hardware I would go with once
         | the pixelbook dies.
         | 
         | Edit: anyone try the Pixelbook Go? Same price point as the
         | original pixelbook and upgradable to 16gb ram.
        
           | omjha wrote:
           | Picked one up this week! It may seem like there aren't any
           | resources online for it (I'm working on a guide) but it
           | actually works great! Just use a recent kernel and
           | https://github.com/WeirdTreeThing/chromebook-linux-audio for
           | audio which works pretty great.
           | 
           | Hardware is amazing, arch flies on this thing and the battery
           | life lasts forever.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | I owned a Pixelbook Go and it was good but it died after
           | getting only slightly damp, wrecked the keyboard somehow. I
           | can't imagine getting one today since at the same price point
           | you can get the much much faster HP Dragonfly Pro. The only
           | real drawback is the 14" HP is bigger and heavier than the
           | 12" Pixelbooks.
        
         | mdhb wrote:
         | I've been doing full stack web and mobile development on a
         | Chromebook for about 18 months now. It's actually the best
         | developer experience I've ever had.
         | 
         | Everything is nicely sandboxed, things work well by default.
         | 
         | I probably spend about 50/50 of my development time either
         | locally in the integrated Linux developer environment or
         | remotely using GitHub Codespaces where I'm just using a PWA
         | essentially as my IDE.
        
           | balder1991 wrote:
           | What's the specs of your Chromebook? I'm thinking about
           | buying one and sell the crappy tablet I almost never use. But
           | I have the impression from reading the subreddit that 4GB
           | isn't enough to use Android apps on it. Also I'm not sure how
           | to know if Linux container is available from random
           | Chromebooks in local stores.
        
         | TheCycoONE wrote:
         | I have a Samsung Chromebook Plus (v1/kevin). I was looking for
         | something that wouldn't be too cumbersome to carry around with
         | my work laptop during my 1hr commute and at roughly 1cm thick
         | and 2lbs this machine fit the bill. I swapped the OS to
         | ArchLinux ARM and used it as a light dev environment sticking
         | to nvim+lsp.
         | 
         | These days I work from home and rarely use it - just for
         | writing.
        
         | ufmace wrote:
         | I'm typing this on a Asus Spin 713. IMO, works great both for
         | web browsing and other consumer-level tasks and for development
         | and system administration. The Linux container image gives me a
         | full command line, and pretty much everything works, including
         | my usual Tmux+Neovim development environment. I've never felt
         | the need to do any development on a remote VM or anything.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Or better, never buy a chromebook to start with.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | I would certainly never buy a new one, but there are tons of
         | used Chromeboxes/books for sale on Ebay and elsewhere at very
         | convenient prices. I've reflashed a good number of them and
         | installed various Linux distros; this can be invaluable for
         | people who need an unrestricted OS but have not much money to
         | spend on a new PCs, beside repurposing hardware that could end
         | up in a drawer or, worse, in a landfill. For those interested,
         | my method of choice is described at https://mrchromebox.tech/
         | It is not destructive, one can backup and restore the original
         | firmware at any moment, although I wouldn't see any reason to
         | do that.
        
         | thriftwy wrote:
         | If it's cheap, good and you can make a real PC out of it, why
         | not?
        
           | arcanemachiner wrote:
           | Gallium OS worked great... until it got abandoned.
           | 
           | Then, those seeking updates were stuck finding a distro that
           | worked well, with available drivers, had to deal with the
           | stupid keyboard and remapping the keys, etc.
           | 
           | I'm not going down that road again.
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | A relative still uses an Asus C200 Chromebook. When
             | GalliumOS was abandonned, we were able to successfully
             | install Linux Mint. Mainline Linux now works correctly, we
             | took some packages related to the keyboard from GalliumOS
             | and pinned them. A bit annoying but workable.
             | 
             | The sound has always been capricious though, but it was
             | also the case on GalliumOS.*
             | 
             | I think buying this machine was a good call at the time,
             | almost 10 years ago. Very good battery life, lightweight,
             | cheap and now we know, incredibly durable.
             | 
             | But I'm with you. It definitely was a maintenance burden
             | and it's good that this relative is patient with the flaws
             | that it exhibits, and its slowness.
             | 
             | Today, it would make more sense to just buy a refurbished
             | pro laptop and put Linux on it and be done with it. It'll
             | be as cheap, but the whole experience will be way better.
             | That's what I do for me, and that's what we'll probably do
             | with this relative when they or the machine gives up, which
             | does not seem to want to happen. Good for the environment I
             | guess.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | thriftwy wrote:
             | If it's cheap (and shabby) enough to reason once in 3 years
             | upgrade, that is no longer a problem. And that's exactly
             | how long my Lenovo laptops tend to survive these days.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Just what the world needs right now, throw away hardware
               | every 3 years.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | Yeah, that's crazy. 3 years is barely what we ought to
               | aim for _phones_ , let alone laptops.
               | 
               | If only software didn't get more and more heavy.
        
             | sdf4j wrote:
             | Debian12 works great out of the box
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Because you can also buy a real PC pre-loaded with GNU/Linux
           | for about the same price, around 300 euros.
           | 
           | And if one is going for the 1000 euros Chromebook variants,
           | then there are certainly real PC deals much better than a
           | Chrome kiosk OS.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > Because you can also buy a real PC pre-loaded with
             | GNU/Linux for about the same price, around 300 euros.
             | 
             | In the US, decent Chromebooks usually go for about 200 USD.
             | Decent meaning intel mainstream core processors. From what
             | I've seen, those tend to be well supported by 3rd party
             | firmwares; Intel Atom based Chromebooks seem to have a lot
             | of delays in support, ARM based seem to be mostly
             | unsupported, I don't know about AMD based. It's better to
             | confirm the 3rd party firmware details before purchase, of
             | course, but Intel mainstream core is a good rule of thumb;
             | and it's a good rule of thumb for performance too (although
             | current AMD is likely better if you know you can boot your
             | OS of choice)
        
             | LAC-Tech wrote:
             | _Because you can also buy a real PC pre-loaded with GNU
             | /Linux for about the same price, around 300 euros._
             | 
             | Not everyone lives in Europe.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Indeed, but they order online.
               | 
               | Also I bet that there are similar offers on their
               | continent.
        
               | LAC-Tech wrote:
               | _Indeed, but they order online._
               | 
               | And pay heavy import duties, or maybe their items seized
               | by customs.
               | 
               |  _Also I bet that there are similar offers on their
               | continent._
               | 
               | Based on what evidence?
        
               | quickthrower2 wrote:
               | Oh come on. There is no way it is hard to get a Linux PC
               | anywhere you can get a Chromebook anyway.
               | 
               | I'll start: Australasia - https://arkpc.com.au/
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | $500 Lenovo in North America, flips all the way open, had
               | to swap the WiFI ($25), drop that trash RealTek and add
               | Intel. Big SDD, 8 cores. Runs Gentoo+Xfce. Multi touch,
               | webcam, all work a treat. I prefer it to a similar sized
               | Chromebook ($400) cause it's got more power.
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | Things you get on a Chromebook that you don't get on a
             | 300-euro laptop with Linux include: working multitouch
             | input devices, working webcams, working suspend and resume,
             | working audio, working wifi, and 7 years of software
             | support.
        
         | forgotmypw17 wrote:
         | Not everyone chooses which device to have, nor is buying the
         | only way to acquire a device.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Most certainly true for Google employees.
        
             | forgotmypw17 wrote:
             | I think most Google employees can get whatever device they
             | want.
             | 
             | I was thinking of someone who does not have the money for a
             | new device, but acquires a salvage one.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | They are in good position then, plenty of good deals on
               | proper computers as well.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | You're still talking about buying and choosing, and I was
               | talking about not doing that.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | "....but acquires a salvage one."
               | 
               | => buy or obtain (an asset or object) for oneself.
        
               | n6h6 wrote:
               | I encourage you to look up "obtain" and stop being
               | intentionally ignorant.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | I encourage you to be clever when obtaining computers and
               | find one that is actually designed to be a proper PC.
               | 
               | It surely shouldn't be hard for any clever person to find
               | out such offers, it might even lie beside that shinny
               | chromebook one.
        
               | quickthrower2 wrote:
               | I am seeing $40 chromebooks on ebay - tempting to buy one
               | just for the steal-factor. Why buy an RPi?
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | I bet you will find other computers for similar prices on
               | ebay.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Please forgive me for failing to get this idea across
               | clearly, and I will try again, because I consider it an
               | important one:
               | 
               | There are people in the world, many people, who do not
               | have any access to either money or the ability to choose
               | their computing device, and the only devices they have
               | available to them, if they are lucky, are the ones which
               | they have already been granted by the circumstances.
               | 
               | These people include, but are not limited to, people in
               | disadvantaged financial situations, such as countries
               | with low monetary flow; those living in abusive
               | households, especially minors; those imprisoned or
               | otherwise having their freedom restricted; those attached
               | to a device for sentimental reasons; those who are able
               | to exchange money for a device, as you suggest, and are
               | waiting for it to arrive.
               | 
               | To the overwhelming majority of the world, 300 dollars,
               | or even 20 dollars, is a huge sum, one that is either
               | unattainable, or can only be attained through much
               | struggle, difficulty, and sacrifice.
               | 
               | To an individual in such a situation, their Chromebook,
               | or 10-year-old Android phone, or 20-year-old PC, may be
               | the only option at accessing the digital world. And we
               | should do everything in our power to facilitate their
               | ability to use such a device.
        
       | madduci wrote:
       | I find depressing that there aren't binaries available, as
       | everyone is required to build their own distribution from
       | scratch.
       | 
       | Why don't they use some hosted workers (GitHub Actions, GitLab
       | Runners) to do the job?
        
         | igravious wrote:
         | That's answered in the FAQ:
         | 
         | https://eupnea-linux.github.io/faq#why-is-sharing-depthboot-...
         | 
         | "The Depthboot base distros all allow image/iso/rootfs sharing,
         | but only in an unmodified form. The Depthboot script customizes
         | some internal distro behavior (for example it adds our eupnea
         | packages) and thereby creates modified images. To allow
         | modified images to be shared, all trademarked content would
         | have to be removed, i.e. all Distro logos."
        
       | bhaney wrote:
       | > Does the Eupnea Project collect any telemetry?
       | 
       | > No, setting up telemetry services is too much work.
       | 
       | Ha
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Security through laziness is a principle I can get behind.
        
       | hattmall wrote:
       | Long Live Crouton!
        
       | nextos wrote:
       | Very interesting, seems to support fairly new devices (e.g.
       | Jasper Lake).
       | 
       | Although newest ones tend to have unsupported boot or audio (e.g.
       | Lenovo 100e Chromebook Gen 4, codename rusty): https://eupnea-
       | linux.github.io/docs/project/supported-device...
       | 
       | Mapping between devices and codenames:
       | https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-f...
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | I have a very cheap Chromebook that I have been using for
       | everything for the last few months since my laptop fan stopped
       | working properly.
       | 
       | I have Linux setup in the settings and use it a lot. For work I
       | usually end up sshing in to a VPS.
       | 
       | It seems like a normal Ubuntu. What benefit does the Depthboot
       | have?
        
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