[HN Gopher] Fed raises rates 25 bps
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       Fed raises rates 25 bps
        
       Author : mutant_glofish
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2023-07-26 21:31 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.federalreserve.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.federalreserve.gov)
        
       | ginko wrote:
       | 25 bits per second?
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | Basis points. Aka: a percent-of-a-percent, or one-tenthousanth.
         | 
         | 25 BPS is therefore 0.25%.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | basis points i.e. 0.01%
        
           | ginko wrote:
           | Why not say 0.25%? No one knows obscure English language
           | economics terms.
        
             | xnx wrote:
             | "25 bps" eliminates that ambiguity between "0.25%" meaning
             | (current rate% + 0.25%) or (current rate% * 1.0025)
        
             | marvin wrote:
             | It's a term of art in finance; people who work with it
             | daily don't think twice before using it. Computer science
             | has a whole book full of these; comes with the subject.
        
             | sudobash1 wrote:
             | Presumably the target audience of federalreserve.gov does.
             | I also know the terms, just from talking to a loan officer
             | while shopping for a mortgage. So calling obscure may be a
             | bit unfair.
             | 
             | Also, bits per second is very familiar to many of us in the
             | HN audience, but that is just because of our particular
             | technical background. It is the same in other technical
             | areas (such as finance).
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | The Fed could do a better job wrt to expanding that
               | target audience.
               | 
               | I've always found it slightly silly that getting the
               | rates and prices needed to judge the performance of the
               | Fed, Treasury, and so on effectively requires use of a
               | Bloomberg terminal (there are structural reasons why this
               | is the case but the fed wields a big stick).
               | 
               | Even worse in the UK - DMO supposedly not competent in
               | general but I have no first-hand experience.
        
             | shove wrote:
             | That's exactly why
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | Exactly why what? "0.25%" is a lot easier to understand.
               | It's even fewer characters than "25 bps"
        
               | nequo wrote:
               | But it isn't 0.25 percent. It's 0.25 _percentage points._
               | [1] Writing 25 basis points is shorter than that.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point
        
               | bryanlarsen wrote:
               | It's inaccurate. An 0.25% increase on 5% is 5.0125%.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | linhvn wrote:
             | Traders learn bps on the first day of their job, similar to
             | you learn version control on your first day of your SWE
             | intern. What's the difference?
        
             | AdamH12113 wrote:
             | It would have been better to spell out "basis points" in
             | the title, but the term is not at all obscure -- it's very
             | widely used in the finance sector.
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | This is a tech forum, not a finance forum though.
               | 
               | The original article doesn't even use bps. It just says
               | "In support of these goals, the Committee decided to
               | raise the target range for the federal funds rate to
               | 5-1/4 to 5-1/2 percent"
               | 
               | The title could have just said "Fed raises rate from 5.25
               | to 5.50". That'd contained a lot more information.
        
               | signatoremo wrote:
               | This is not a tech forum. I bet the tech posts are less
               | than 50%.
               | 
               | How many times have you seen a post when the submitted
               | article was scorned for not using accurate terminologies?
        
           | LikesPwsh wrote:
           | Bps is also specifically a flat change rather than relative
           | to the previous value.
           | 
           | E.g. If without bps if you have an interest rate of 2% and
           | somebody states that it has increased by 10%, it's unclear
           | whether they meant a result of 2.2% or 12%.
        
         | Analemma_ wrote:
         | bps = basis points. A basis point is 0.01% (absolute), so this
         | means they raised rates by an absolute amount of 0.25%.
        
       | Dig1t wrote:
       | Is this whole thing caused by those stupid covid relief checks
       | that they sent out? Or are there other reasons why inflation got
       | so out of control?
        
         | baseballdork wrote:
         | I can't tell if this is a serious question or not considering
         | the past few years of disease and war.
        
           | Dig1t wrote:
           | Legitimate question, I'm not very economically literate.
           | 
           | We went through wars in the past without crazy inflation,
           | gulf war, Iraq, Afghanistan. Is it because of all the Ukraine
           | aid we're sending? If so, why is this different than other
           | conflicts?
           | 
           | How does disease cause inflation?
        
             | stu2010 wrote:
             | Disease, disaster, war all cause significant inflation
             | because they harm or destroy both things and productivity
             | in the real world without destroying money.
             | 
             | If factories shut down and supply chains are disrupted and
             | we only make half as many cars this year, how much would
             | people be willing to pay for those cars? Much more.
        
         | pers0n wrote:
         | The mere $2000 stimulus checks are nothing.
         | 
         | It was the billions in PPP loans that lots of people used
         | fraudulently, including our own politicians. On top of that, it
         | was decided they didnt need to be paid back, so people go to
         | keep all the fancy cars, electronics and real estate they
         | bought with it.
        
         | epakai wrote:
         | It's a combination of things. Tax cuts juicing an already hot
         | economy, economic stimulus attempting to minimize the effect of
         | a temporary pandemic, former executive fighting against
         | interest rate increases. However this is a very US centric
         | view.
         | 
         | It's also important to remember inflation is a global
         | phenomenon. US policy might have outsized effect, but it is
         | certainly not the whole story. Global gas prices hit decade-
         | long highs last year, after massive lows during the pandemic.
         | We had to somewhat jumpstart the global economy, and recover
         | from slowdowns during that time as well.
        
       | leemelone wrote:
       | I'm floored that people are willing to keep accumulating debt at
       | these rates. I have a feeling it can't go on much longer...
        
         | ojbyrne wrote:
         | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession:
         | 
         | "The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to
         | 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, an important
         | economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982"
        
         | sudobash1 wrote:
         | These aren't the exact rates that ordinary folks will be
         | borrowing at. See credit cards for instance (way higher), or
         | mortgages (a little higher).
         | 
         | Counterintuitively, it is possible for mortgage rates to go
         | down even when the Feds are raising their rates. The interest
         | rates for us normies are dictated in large part to how
         | confident the financial sector feels. If the Fed's raising of
         | the interest rate makes the financial sector feel that
         | inflation is under control, then mortgage rates may go down.
        
         | WaxProlix wrote:
         | For things like mortgages, they're still historically low(ish).
         | See the graph on this page for instance
         | 
         | https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/historical-mortgage-rates...
         | 
         | so folks have been taking on debt at current rates, and
         | substantially higher ones, for some time.
        
           | S201 wrote:
           | True, but home prices are also much higher than in the past
           | partly thanks to that long period of low interest rates.
           | Taking on these huge loans with corresponding (comparatively)
           | high rates is a different ballgame than it was in the past.
        
           | mholt wrote:
           | Home prices in the '80s were ~$60,000; equivalent homes now
           | are about 10x that [0]. With inflation bouncing around 2-6%
           | on average [1], and only modest wage increases over decades
           | [2], that makes the median home today _way_ less affordable
           | even with these relatively low interest rates.
           | 
           | [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS
           | 
           | [1]: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/inflation-cpi
           | 
           | [2]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003
        
         | chriscappuccio wrote:
         | Half of the federal govt's $31 trillion debt comes due in the
         | next two years. It will be refinanced at much higher rates...Or
         | we'll see Yield Curve Control from the federal reserve. Take
         | your pick.
        
       | dragontamer wrote:
       | Press Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy0_JtAMjps
       | 
       | I haven't watched it yet, but Powell's speech is traditionally
       | the more important thing with FOMC meetings, because the speech
       | gives more insight into what the FOMC was worried about / not
       | worried about / etc. etc.
       | 
       | The +25 BPS was long predicted. All eyes are on September, and
       | the only hint at what happens in September is what Powell said
       | today (and the questions the press asked him).
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | Doesn't seem like the Fed has any other moves that won't tank the
       | economy (https://fortune.com/2023/07/10/jerome-powell-federal-
       | reserve...). They really need Congress to step in and help soak
       | up the excess.
        
         | arcticbull wrote:
         | They don't have any other moves, period, they've really only
         | got a hammer.
         | 
         | That said your article is about the balance sheet, not the
         | funds rate. The balance sheet will sort itself out over time.
         | They can just let their long-duration assets mature and roll
         | off.
        
           | jjoonathan wrote:
           | No, the balance sheet will not sort itself out over time.
           | Every time the fed starts making progress markets tank and
           | rich people flex their influence to get their assets pumped
           | back up.
           | 
           | How much do you want to bet that it goes under, say, $1T by
           | 2030?
        
             | arcticbull wrote:
             | That's not the argument I am making, I'm saying if you
             | leave the balance sheet alone it will shrink. We don't need
             | anyone to step in and sop anything up. I'm not opining on -
             | nor do I really care - about future growth of the balance
             | sheet.
             | 
             | Generally speaking increases in the size of the balance
             | sheet represent flows into the economy of money. Static
             | balance sheets, or ones that roll off over time, have
             | little to no impact.
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | It's a bit weird that you seem so focused on a
               | hypothetical future that isn't going to happen (balance
               | sheet rolls off) but don't care about the perpetually
               | rising balance sheet that is actually happening and will
               | almost certainly continue to happen. Why is your
               | hypothetical parallel universe more interesting than this
               | universe?
               | 
               | We've set up a system to pump trillions into rich
               | peoples' pockets every time they pull the lever and they
               | are going to keep pulling that lever.
        
               | arcticbull wrote:
               | Whose pockets does new money go into and by what
               | mechanism?
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | Asset owners, in proportion to how many assets they own,
               | because the fed buys the assets.
        
               | arcticbull wrote:
               | They're not exactly out there buying the S&P 500.
               | 
               | > These assets include: holdings of Treasury, agency, and
               | mortgage-backed securities; discount window lending;
               | lending to other institutions; assets of limited
               | liability companies (LLCs) that have been consolidated
               | onto the Federal Reserve's balance sheet, and foreign
               | currency holdings associated with reciprocal currency
               | arrangements with other central banks (foreign central
               | bank liquidity swaps). [1]
               | 
               | They're buying bonds that mature at some point in the
               | future.
               | 
               | Or rather they were, because they stopped a while ago.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fed
               | sbalanc...
        
         | seatac76 wrote:
         | I think they are banking of student loan payments resuming as
         | one lane to absorb liquidity.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-26 23:02 UTC)