[HN Gopher] Why Host in Kosovo?
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       Why Host in Kosovo?
        
       Author : asadm
       Score  : 174 points
       Date   : 2023-07-23 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (basehost.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (basehost.eu)
        
       | peppermint_gum wrote:
       | This is either a joke or a scam/honeypot designed to fool
       | gullible westerners.
       | 
       | Kosovo definitely is a corrupt country, but it doesn't mean you
       | don't have to keep your criminal activities on the low. If you
       | attract the attention of the western agencies, they will
       | absolutely go after you. This isn't Russia, they're west-aligned
       | and they don't want to annoy their western partners too much.
       | 
       | Also, this site doesn't even seem to be hosted in Kosovo:
       | https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?searchtext=192.71.1...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | MrGilbert wrote:
         | Links tend to disappear. It's always good to include a summary
         | of what this link shows. So I guess you are referring to the
         | fact that Pronect Technology Ltd is located in Zagreb, Croatia?
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | Very similar to this were a handful of resellers of resellers
         | in Amsterdam that would totally ignore abuse reports and allow
         | hosting anything. They were half a block from The Hague and an
         | Interpol office. They would get raided a few times a year. I am
         | still unsure how they managed to run for a long time unless
         | they were a honeypot looking for specific targets.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Wasn't this the cyberbunker? It sure sounds like them except
           | for the location.
        
         | Atlas22 wrote:
         | Any product/service directly and publicly marketed to criminals
         | is a honeypot (or will soon be). There is no reason for a real
         | business (legal or illegal) to prefer criminal customers in
         | good faith as all they bring is problems.
         | 
         | There are many agencies around the globe that set these up and
         | continue to operate after siezing them to catch the low hanging
         | fruit criminals. Its a lot easier/cheaper to lure criminals
         | expose themselves directly than it is to actually
         | investigate/track/hunt them down. Its pretty much the quantity
         | over quality approach.
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | Or maybe it's a honeypot, directly or indirectly.
        
       | bfung wrote:
       | Looks like this post is related to another high ranked front page
       | post atm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273
       | 
       | In the other post & comments, they mention hosting things in
       | Kosovo after the person who ran a tor exit node was tried by not
       | convicted of child porn.
        
       | ricardo81 wrote:
       | >Of course DDoS and other attacks are a problem
       | 
       | I wonder if the pipes into the country are smaller than the
       | demand for people to circumvent said reasons for hosting there
       | and said attention.
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | How's the protection from the proverbial balaclava wearing thugs
       | applying a crowbar to your server? (Or more likely someone
       | handing your host some cash to accidentally disappear your VPS?)
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | People have been openly selling drugs on Instagram and Snapchat
       | for years. This isn't really any different.
        
       | malikNF wrote:
       | Wouldn't the same arguments that are for hosting there going to
       | be the reasons not to as well?
        
         | trolan wrote:
         | Yes. See the recent legal actions around Andrew Tate as further
         | evidence of 'its great the government is terrible to these
         | other people' is only good for so long.
        
       | notheisenberg wrote:
       | Kosovo is internationally recognized mainly by non-shithole
       | governments, and it maintains close security cooperation with the
       | United States. However, there are websites with a slavic-serb
       | focus that aim to discredit Kosovo. This seems to be one.
        
         | lazy_moderator1 wrote:
         | well I'd argue that Kosovo recognition map contains some of the
         | most shithole governments on Earth so it all cancels out :D
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | pretty bold to call half of all the countries on Earth
         | shitholes ;)
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | I mean, you've got to draw a line, and wherever you draw it,
           | some countries are going to be shitholes.
           | 
           | But, the GP's claim was that countries that recognize Kosovo
           | are _mainly_ non-shitholes (without naming names, there 's
           | certainly some in the list). There's no claim that the non-
           | recognizers are or are not shitholes.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | It's bold but also a sad truth (or close to it). We're mostly
           | the lucky ones here on this site but we're a minority.
           | 
           | I'd personally consider dictatorships but also countries with
           | heavy corruption and anti-free speech, and anti-lgbt laws
           | shithole countries. Others may have other definitions of
           | course. But I'm glad to live where I live.
        
           | rcbdev wrote:
           | Looking at a recognition map of Kosovo, you'd have to try
           | very hard not to see that almost all educated, developed and
           | stable democracies are on the side that does recognize it
           | while all the unsavory, unstable and dictatorial regimes
           | claim to not recognize it. (Even though countries like China
           | will still de-facto recognize Kosovo by accepting their
           | passports for travel)
           | 
           | Make of this what you will.
        
             | darkwater wrote:
             | And then there is Spain...
        
               | ardit33 wrote:
               | Spain was a fascist country until the 80s.... they have
               | their own agenda, and not a role model of human rights.
               | (i.e. Catalonia independence, where they put the elected
               | leaders of the region in jail or exile just two years
               | ago).
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | This is pretty blatant.. you almost have to respect it. But 100%
       | sure even if I was not doing anything illegal but potentially not
       | in my governments interest. Corruption breeds corruption so you
       | could never trust a company like this to even consider being in
       | your interest if there is a higher bidder.
        
       | vbezhenar wrote:
       | Sounds like a honeypot.
       | 
       | If I would want to host an illegal content, I'd use boring
       | provider and route everything via tor. Stable onion address and
       | disposable web gateways which could be hosted everywhere as they
       | don't carry any particular risks of seizure.
        
         | TDiblik wrote:
         | "If I would ..."
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | TDiblik wrote:
           | TIL HN does not support emojis, so the original comment lost
           | the desired meaning :(
        
       | MikeBVaughn wrote:
       | I'm curious about the thought process of people who use services
       | like this. If the datacenter operators are being truthful, then
       | posting mycrimes dot txt on the internet seems like a bad idea.
       | Fundamentally, they're saying "we operate in a comparatively
       | lawless area, and we're doing <x>, <y>, and <z>." But, all things
       | being equal, I'd expect things like regional militias and
       | organized crime to fill the vacuum of state power, and explicitly
       | saying what you do seems like it opens you up to getting shaken
       | down or worse.
       | 
       | On the other hand, they also have no real obligation to be honest
       | about the service they're providing. If they're already publicly
       | claiming to be doing crimes, then being dishonest about the
       | security and safety of the services provided is a drop in the
       | already-quite-full bucket. My guess is that unless they're
       | _extremely_ principled about their specific view of free speech,
       | the risks inherent in the venture mean they don 't believe this
       | necessarily has, say, decades-long sustainability as a business
       | model. If so, then maximizing near-term profit by cutting corners
       | or abusing access to customer data is probably a very tempting
       | option.
       | 
       | Looking at the angles, I have a hard time seeing who'd want to
       | use a service like this.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | You could host BitTorrent seeds or something. Nobody is coming
         | for you internationally over that.
        
           | simultsop wrote:
           | If you are good with that you can help the guys upgrade their
           | tools: https://kosix.net/ the ISP's there are new to the
           | business.
        
         | throwawaysleep wrote:
         | Probably people who are committing little crimes that can get
         | you in trouble but not worth international level resources?
         | Scamming seniors perhaps?
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | That is kinda India's domain though. Aided by their even
           | lower wages and seniors being susceptible to phone calls, not
           | digital comms. "Hello this is Microsoft calling, we need to
           | fix a problem with your computer". There seems to be an
           | upsurge in this crime lately.
           | 
           | Similar to Serbia India's government seems highly acceptant
           | of these scammer callcenters. They seem to operate without
           | any legal intervention. IMO the country should be hit with
           | sanctions for it, that'll end it in no time.
        
             | TylerLives wrote:
             | While Serbian government is also very corrupt, Kosovo has
             | its own government now, made up entirely (to my knowledge)
             | of Albanian people who conquered it.
        
             | lazy_moderator1 wrote:
             | that's not really a thing in Serbia though
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | I'd like to distribute training data. (I'm one of the authors
         | of The Pile, which was recently knocked offline when The Eye
         | stopped hosting it due to threats.)
         | 
         | I also have the entire books3 dataset -- the original epub
         | files, not text extractions -- sitting around on a hard drive.
         | Many people have wanted metadata or to reprocess the set for
         | their own purposes. I'd like to release those, but distributing
         | 190,000 epubs is a little... hard.
         | 
         | Sadly 50TB of traffic per month is almost nothing when it comes
         | to disturbing 800GB datasets. I'd spend 150 euros a month for a
         | solution, but it'd need to be heftier.
        
           | ddorian43 wrote:
           | Just rent a seedbox. Example: https://pulsedmedia.com/
        
           | WildGreenLeave wrote:
           | What about P2P like a torrent? I think plenty of people would
           | be open to seeding this. (I, personally, would love to see
           | things like this)
        
         | limteary wrote:
         | I've used a similar site for DNS and some hosting.
         | 
         | The main reason was having to deal with CSAM and copyright
         | reports, the more common registrars/providers would threaten to
         | pull me if I didn't reply in 24 or 48 hours and eventually I
         | would get kicked off.
         | 
         | I was hosting copyrighted content, I wasn't hosting CSAM but
         | there was legal content involving minors but average provider
         | doesn't care and will argue with you or say it violates their
         | TOS. These shady hosts/registrars just don't care, sure they
         | might vanish one day but if you have backup it's fine.
        
           | mtmail wrote:
           | I used a shady domain registrar (.com) for fun. They had
           | their legal contact in Ethiopia, didn't ask for anything
           | other than an email address and would even accept cash money
           | sent to them. All kinds of crypto currencies, too. I used
           | Paypal and their annual invoices were shady looking too,
           | always ending up in spam.
           | 
           | Yes, they just didn't care. Then one day they said I had to
           | send them a copy of my passport to continue. Also if I wanted
           | to cancel or transfer the main. I let the domain expire
           | instead (got domain squatted but I managed to get it back a
           | couple of years later).
        
       | ahartmetz wrote:
       | Ctrl-F corrupt... ah yes, their frankness is amusing!
        
       | dpedu wrote:
       | > We utilise legacy IP addresses that cannot be revoked by RIPE
       | 
       | What does this mean? It sounds like ASN spoofing/squatting.
        
         | schroeding wrote:
         | Probably addresses distributed by IANA directly before RIPE
         | (and RIRs in general) existed[1].
         | 
         | I don't know if they actually cannot be revoked by RIPE (or
         | ARIN or someone else), though.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/legacy-
         | resources/le...
        
           | Mindwipe wrote:
           | It's very hard to see how RIPE could not revoke them. They
           | might not have much of a process, but that doesn't mean they
           | couldn't invent one.
           | 
           | And if the argument is that you could undertake legal action
           | to get them not to do that well... given you've essentially
           | just argued you are not subject to the law due to the status
           | of Kosovo's government and you'd likely be defending actions
           | that are illegal in any other state best of luck with that.
        
       | WaxProlix wrote:
       | Probably from this top comment on the TOR exit node fella, if you
       | want more context about why this is being posted now and how it
       | applies to HN more broadly
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837438
        
         | asadm wrote:
         | That is correct. I just wanted to bring more attention to this
         | bizarre site.
        
       | reincoder wrote:
       | The site itself is apparently hosted in Netherlands. -_-
       | 
       | https://host.io/basehost.eu
        
       | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
       | If this is legitimate, these people are idiots. If it's not
       | legitimate it's a honeypot. Either way I'm sure stupid criminals
       | will fall for it, so kudos
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | Taiwan is also not officially recognized as a country, but that
       | doesn't stop the world from engaging in all sorts of diplomatic-
       | like relationships.
        
         | mshockwave wrote:
         | Taiwan also hosts one of the few GCP datacenters in (east) Asia
        
       | aleks5678 wrote:
       | Protection from state? Is this a joke?
        
       | marci wrote:
       | For a bit more context:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837273 (Man found guilty
       | of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node)
        
       | dankai wrote:
       | This is a service by the guy who was raided for operating a TOR
       | exit node.
       | 
       | https://lowendbox.com/blog/man-found-guilty-of-child-porn-be...
        
       | Temporary_31337 wrote:
       | Further, as Kosovo is an extremely corrupt country, we are able
       | to bribe both executive and judicative as well as getting
       | information about court orders and raids before execution,
       | enabling us to move servers out of the affected location,
       | protecting our clients in any situation.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | polemic wrote:
       | I've just spent a week in Kosovo for an international tech
       | conference and it's pretty clear that the article is shit-
       | posting. Kosovo might be small and somewhat 'wild west' but you'd
       | be very silly to take any of that advice.
       | 
       | Even if you believee the claims, the EU - especially Germany - is
       | heavily involved in economic development of the country. Kosovo
       | is very keen to improve their EU integration. So, you might be
       | able to side-step Kosovar authorities, but gain the attention of
       | the EU and you're not going to be protected by incompetance or
       | bribery of local law enforcement.
       | 
       | As an aside - it's a great place to visit. Friendly, safe, cheap
       | (for now), good weather. Looking forward to returning one day.
        
         | nickstinemates wrote:
         | What tech conference was in Kosovo? I feel like most are in all
         | of the normal destinations and would like to add a few that are
         | in more interesting locales.
        
           | polemic wrote:
           | FOSS4G (Free and Open Source for Geospatial Information
           | Systems) - https://2023.foss4g.org/
           | 
           | It's a yearly global conference series run by volunteers.
           | There are also regional versions, e.g. FOSS4G NA will be in
           | Baltimore this year (https://foss4gna.org/), Asia will be in
           | Seoul (https://foss4g.asia/2023/) and Oceania will be
           | Auckland (https://2023.foss4g-oceania.org/). It's a great
           | conference if you're interested in Mapping / Geo tech.
        
           | simultsop wrote:
           | There are ones that like this one https://doku.tech/
           | https://flossk.org/ https://ickosovo.com/events
           | https://kosict.com/ https://itp-prizren.com/events/
           | https://makerspaceprizren.com/events/
           | 
           | Many more others, am also proud to be early student (shortly)
           | of: https://frontendmasters.com/teachers/james-halliday/ who
           | visited: https://flossk.org/projects/prishtina-hackerspace/
           | and mesmerized everyone with his skills and knowledge.
        
             | nickstinemates wrote:
             | Thank you
        
         | myko wrote:
         | Having spent some time there myself, I agree with this. The
         | corruption is more than we expect in the US, but not on this
         | level and getting better all the time.
        
       | Thoeu388 wrote:
       | Kosovo also has very cheap electricity from coal. One time it was
       | bitcoin mining hub.
       | 
       | I would be worried about reliability. It is probably semi
       | residential optical line.
        
       | al2o3cr wrote:
       | LOL reminds me of how a couple dummies get caught every year or
       | so by RentAHitman.com
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | Reminds me of the Silk road owner who was totally scammed by a
         | biker gang to pay for a hit the police think never happened.
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | Either bribery is legal in Kosovo or it's a crime minor enough
       | that you can bribe your way out of it, because that seems like a
       | pretty clear admission of guilt.
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | Well in countries where bribery is a thing, the law just isn't
         | that black and white so the fact whether it's legal or not
         | loses its value.
        
       | locallost wrote:
       | This is a very weird statement:
       | 
       | > Furthermore, the lack of recognition (or even existence at all)
       | by many countries means that Kosovo is less susceptible to
       | outside influence and pressure from both East and West, which can
       | provide a safe haven for content that is regularly targeted by
       | state actors and similar.
       | 
       | I would think the opposite is true -- being only partially
       | recognized makes you very dependent on the countries countries
       | that recognized you. If e.g. the US wants something done it is
       | much easier to bully a country that enjoys their protection and
       | is not 100% recognized.
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | "101 out of 193 (52.3%) United Nations member states, 22 out of
         | 27 (81.5%) European Union member states, 27 out of 31 (87.1%)
         | NATO member states, and 33 out of 57 (57.9%) Organisation of
         | Islamic Cooperation member states have recognised Kosovo."
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_K...
         | (includes a map)
        
       | figassis wrote:
       | I mean, the amount of variables and risk one would have to be
       | comfortable with to take their statements at face value and
       | signup...you'd have to be some cartel. Ping ponging servers
       | between semi-hostile borders? Talk about stressful availability.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-23 23:03 UTC)