[HN Gopher] Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
        
       Author : keepamovin
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2023-07-23 10:07 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gutenberg.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gutenberg.org)
        
       | robin_reala wrote:
       | Ah, a rare appearance of the copyrighted Project Gutenberg book.
       | See also their translation of Kafka's _Metamorphosis_ [1] and the
       | not-awful edition of Verne's _Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the
       | Sea_.[2]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5200
       | 
       | [2] https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2488
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | totetsu wrote:
       | It is reminding me of "Feersum Endjinn".
       | 
       | And the current season of Adventure time which is set in an
       | alternative future Disneyworld.
        
         | flufferstutter wrote:
         | Current season? I had a look and there is the new Fiona and
         | Cake series coming at the end of August. But I thought there
         | the last episode before that was in 2021?
        
       | donohoe wrote:
       | I love gutenberg, but how did they allow the reading experience
       | to be so awful. It could be so much more if they were to update
       | the basic template or whatever directions they provide for
       | content submission.
        
       | lproven wrote:
       | As far as I know, _all_ of Doctorow 's books are on his website
       | for free download anyway.
       | 
       | E.g. here is _Content_...
       | 
       | https://craphound.com/content/download/
       | 
       | DAOITMK is here:
       | 
       | https://craphound.com/category/down/
        
         | totetsu wrote:
         | Wow every format imaginable. Even the ebook as gba rom
        
           | matt-attack wrote:
           | Apple Newton??
           | 
           | Curious though, is there a way to get it on an iPhone in the
           | built in Books app?
        
             | jilX wrote:
             | EPUB format, DAOITMK was listed as "for Stanza".
        
         | idlewords wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | I think I remember reading a blog post explaining why one was
         | not free, but I can't find it now. There's a reference to it
         | here:
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/rub7ff/is_corey_do...
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Typical commercial publishing contracts, you can't just stick
           | the book up online for free.
        
             | mkl wrote:
             | But up to that point, Doctorow had custom contracts where
             | he _could_ put the books online for free.
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | I don't think they're _all_ there, e.g.
         | 
         | https://craphound.com/category/redteamblues/
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | Don't know. Maybe it's too new?
        
         | dochtman wrote:
         | I don't think the newer ones (like Walkaway) are Free like the
         | early ones?
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | Looks like that could be the case, yes. Maybe his publishers
           | changed their minds. I know he and Charlie Stross had great
           | difficulty getting Charlie's publishers to agree to a free
           | ebook of _Rapture of the Nerds_.
           | 
           | It looks like there was briefly a giveaway of _Walkaway_ and
           | as a result it 's on the Internet Archive, but I've not
           | checked it.
        
             | garrisonhh wrote:
             | Regardless, you can easily find the ebook online which Cory
             | Doctorow won't have any problem with
        
         | doctor_eval wrote:
         | How cool to see Plucker in that list. Something I started in
         | the 90s.
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | The more usual link for Gutenberg is:
       | 
       | https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8086
       | 
       | Which gives you different formats, and links to the author's
       | other works.
        
         | keepamovin wrote:
         | I prefer this 'HTML (as submitted)' version. Kind of the
         | canonical "first edition" seems ~~ guess it's how Doctorow sent
         | it to the big G himself? Plus it has the cute little lime green
         | frontispiece, and I love that.
         | 
         | That's why I posted this link not another one.
        
         | khimaros wrote:
         | https://openlibrary.org/books/OL3570141M/Down_and_out_in_the...
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2011)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20716878 - Aug 2019 (16
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Down and out in the magic kingdom - A tale of software
       | consulting in the midwest_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11595120 - April 2016 (126
       | comments)
        
         | wgx wrote:
         | Dan your second link isn't about the book, and it's now a 404.
         | 
         | Edit: neither link are about the book.
        
       | pwdr_mnky wrote:
       | I read this book on an iPod because Doctorow releases the vast
       | majority of his work freely, so I could just upload a text file
       | to my clickwheel. Weird, but awesome.
       | 
       | The book itself is great too. I still think about a lot of the
       | concepts to this day.
        
         | ddingus wrote:
         | Me too! Read a few of his books on a Nano. I had several people
         | ask me about what I was doing with my Nano.
         | 
         | Was a small screen, but workable at the time.
         | 
         | I used iPad note format to read my copy.
        
         | bitsoda wrote:
         | Ha, I had completely forgotten this was a thing I used to do.
         | Thanks for bringing back good memories of scrolling through
         | .txt files. It might sound tedious to those who never tried it,
         | but the Clickwheel was a genuine pleasure to use for so many
         | things. I still miss it to this day.
        
           | kaycebasques wrote:
           | Obligatory repost of this 2009 gem:
           | 
           |  _Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard_
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/9BnLbv6QYcA
        
       | BruceEel wrote:
       | Read this in paperback when it came out. Highly entertaining and
       | highly recommended!
        
       | dawyne wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | I like this book and I'm never quite sure how some of the terms
       | were Doctorow capturing what's going on and writing it down vs
       | inventing it. I think how whuffie was described here seems like
       | something that will really exist and I don't know if there were
       | any sites displaying cumulative karma for people.
       | 
       | It was at least the first time I read it.
       | 
       | Also, I think the "comm" described in Eastern Standard Tribe is
       | the first time a smartphone was practically described with
       | functions we had later in the iPhone (payment, maps, pervasive
       | information, camera, image and video sharing). I wondered if
       | phone designers ever drew inspiration from Doctorow's specific
       | books.
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | I find Whuffie as a concept pretty interesting, though not that
         | different from regular wealth. For example, being the daughter
         | of prominent Imagineers did hold a lot of sway in their world,
         | despite the daughter herself not being particularly remarkable.
         | 
         | What I mean to say is, trust-fund kids will still be alive and
         | well in some form in a post dollar world.
        
           | keepamovin wrote:
           | Maybe I'm extending your sentiment-vector too far in its
           | direction (or maybe mistaking its direction entirely!), but
           | are you at the: "So no matter what kind of future we have,
           | there's still no point in trying, because in the end it's not
           | about what you choose, it's about what's given to you?"-Level
           | or a less extreme version of that-Level...?
        
             | tetris11 wrote:
             | The latter, as anything is better than what we have now; a
             | semi-meritocracy for STEM and maybe a handful of other
             | professions.
             | 
             | Whuffie seems like it would open up that definition to a
             | wide range of careers and interests (artists for example),
             | but would still suffer from some of the nepotism after the
             | initial uptake of the value system.
             | 
             | I'm also wondering how one could redistribute Whuffie in a
             | charitable kind of way
        
           | dochtman wrote:
           | I think Doctorow later was more explicit about the downsides
           | of a Whuffie-like reputation systems, IIRC even in one of his
           | fictional works?
        
             | egypturnash wrote:
             | One of the early antagonists in _Walkaway_ is a group of
             | reputation economy jerkbags.
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | > I think how whuffie was described here seems like something
         | that will really exist and I don't know if there were any sites
         | displaying cumulative karma for people.
         | 
         | The book was written when slashdot.org was really big, it
         | basically invented the "Karma" system. There was this idea of
         | user generated and curated content being a bright happy new
         | future, and DAOITMK basically shot that idea dead by showing
         | all the faults such a system would have. Of course subsequent
         | sites (re: reddit) have exhibited all of those flaws. HN stays
         | reasonable because of the mods, but even so the culture is a
         | lot different here than it was 10 years ago. When I first
         | created an account here short comments almost always got
         | downvoted, posters who didn't have anything substantial learned
         | to stay quiet.
         | 
         | (The downside of that culture is people learned to type
         | intelligent sounding long form fluff!)
        
         | jes5199 wrote:
         | Eastern Standard Tribe is a weird one because its predictions
         | turned out to be rather short-term, half of the ideas seem
         | obvious now and half seem foolish
        
         | tialaramex wrote:
         | > I wondered if phone designers ever drew inspiration from
         | Doctorow's specific books.
         | 
         | I'm sure at least somebody was thinking about that because
         | Doctorow's books are popular, but all that specifically
         | happened is vendors discovered if you tell people that the
         | handheld computer you're selling them is a "phone" they'll buy
         | that, and then of course they actually wanted a handheld
         | computer, so they'll keep buying them even as actually they now
         | realise they don't want to make telephone calls.
         | 
         | Both Android Inc. and the Apple secret project to develop their
         | smartphone pre-date Doctorow's novel. Which doesn't mean he
         | knew about them, but it means he couldn't have inspired these
         | efforts.
         | 
         | The handheld computers aren't specifically doing those things,
         | they can just do whatever, because they're a general purpose
         | computer, and the features you listed are among the popular
         | things to use that for. I guess _maybe_ they needn 't have
         | happened to have cameras, but given how cheap that is to do
         | it's not a big surprise.
         | 
         | The Young Lady's Illustrated Primer from Diamond Age is maybe
         | more directly inspirational, various technologies are clearly
         | inspired by the Primer which substantially pre-dates them
         | because it's from a time (the mid-1990s) where many people
         | don't have Internet access.
        
           | kbutler wrote:
           | > vendors discovered if you tell people that the handheld
           | computer you're selling them is a "phone" they'll buy that,
           | and then of course they actually wanted a handheld computer,
           | so they'll keep buying them even as actually they now realise
           | they don't want to make telephone calls
           | 
           | So much this.
           | 
           | And we expected tablets to become more popular, but instead
           | phones grew to the max screen size that still allows
           | pocketability.
        
       | radarsat1 wrote:
       | I read this a while ago. I don't know if it's because I've never
       | been to disney world or know enough about it, but I didn't really
       | "get" the book. Some of the concepts were interesting like dead
       | heading and backing up but not really things I haven't read by
       | other authors of the same decade. Although, maybe some of these
       | ideas stem from this book so not sure. But overall I found it
       | hard to follow, mostly because i didn't understand the importance
       | of the various venues or why the various characters were in that
       | particular location in the first place.
       | 
       | I think the point was more about the kind of social credit
       | system, in that sense it seemed not to be able to decide if it
       | was depicting a utopia or dystopia. But please tell me if I'm way
       | off, interested in hearing what people felt about this book.
        
       | silveira wrote:
       | I read this book on paper many years ago. I only visited Walt
       | Disney World once because the curiosity it caused. Of course I
       | went to the hall of presidents.
        
       | madrox wrote:
       | I'm paraphrasing a quote somewhat, but "we didn't have to change
       | their minds; they just died" haunts me 20 years after reading it.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | Okay so what's this book about?
       | 
       | I read "about this book" but it just wanted to tell me about
       | copyright and publication details.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | It's science fiction about economics, intellectual property,
         | and the value of community.
         | 
         | But that tagline applies to nearly everything Doctorow's
         | written.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Oh that sounds fun. I'm in.
        
             | abdullahkhalids wrote:
             | This and his Walkaway are his best books about alternate
             | economo-political systems. In particular, they deal with
             | the challenges of near or full post-scarcity world.
             | 
             | Really a good study in understanding that just growing till
             | we produce "enough" is not going to solve critical human
             | problems. There will still be serious conflict, and the
             | solutions to those are not economic growth.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-07-23 23:01 UTC)