[HN Gopher] Simpson Fan Grows Tomacco (2003)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Simpson Fan Grows Tomacco (2003)
        
       Author : pipeline_peak
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2023-07-22 09:44 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.simpsonsarchive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.simpsonsarchive.com)
        
       | j1elo wrote:
       | > _I am going to try to schedule the testing done this Friday,
       | October 24th._
       | 
       | So WHY didn't you open up your editor on the 25th and let us the
       | World know about the results (or lack thereof)???
       | 
       | I hate so much the utter lack of discipline and follow-up of the
       | average internet person :-( (of course in a tongue in cheek way)
       | 
       | This happens so many times... who hasn't found an interesting
       | forum topic, sometimes describing exactly the same problem we're
       | having, with a promising resolution, but which never actually
       | arrived?
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | https://xkcd.com/979
        
           | j1elo wrote:
           | I really felt like shaking this person like the xkcd comic
           | guy shakes the screen...
           | 
           | It's one thing to talk about something and just casually
           | never following up. That's bad enough already.
           | 
           | But _giving a precise date_ , and _promising a follow-up_ ,
           | then never doing it... that's purely evil! Only valid excuse
           | is a life-altering accident or something serious like that.
           | Otherwise I'll hate you and will want to call you things
           | 
           | ...shouting at my screen in my room's solitude.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | I've secured access to a Tomacco plant. I'll let you know
         | tomorrow what my findings are.
        
         | ethbr0 wrote:
         | > _sometimes describing exactly the same problem we 're having,
         | with a promising resolution_
         | 
         | Exactly!
         | 
         | I've been trying to perfect my tomacco grafts for 20 years at
         | this point and was unable to find any information.
         | 
         | The nerve of the author!
        
         | cgriswald wrote:
         | The absolute _worst_ is situations like this:
         | 
         | User: I have a problem I haven't been able to google. Whenever
         | this very specific situation occurs, I am having this problem.
         | Any advice?
         | 
         | Other Users: (Lots of ideas, no solution.)
         | 
         | User: Nevermind, I figured it out, thanks!
         | 
         | ... _WHAT DID YOU DO TO FIX IT?_
        
           | csa wrote:
           | > ...WHAT DID YOU DO TO FIX IT?
           | 
           | I think the general assumption when the reply lacks
           | specificity is that it's something embarrassingly routine
           | like "I checked to make sure that the device was plugged in"
           | or some variant thereof.
           | 
           | It's not a 100% safe assumption, but I think this is the
           | answer more often than not.
        
             | kwhitefoot wrote:
             | Even telling the world that can be useful because what is
             | embarrassingly routine for you might be entirely unknown to
             | someone else. Plus it is simply polite.
        
             | tsuujin wrote:
             | Honestly the best part of troubleshooting is when I find
             | out I was just being a massive dumbass the entire time. I
             | go tell my team, friends, wife, etc, "I fixed it, I was
             | just a dumbass, all I had to do was [thing]" and I revel in
             | it because that shit is funny.
             | 
             | The angrier I am while troubleshooting, the funnier that
             | reveal is for everyone.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | I like to pretend they entirely changed solutions, like
           | switching from Java to PHP or the other way around.
           | 
           | The lies we tell ourselves...
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | Where I have encountered this, the path to a solution
           | requires discovering that the problem is a generic error
           | message that has an unbelievable number of different possible
           | causes. And in the process of solving that, the specific
           | problem was incredibly specific.
           | 
           | For example Django is very good at giving a small number of
           | (useless) error messages for a wide variety of things that
           | can keep it from starting up properly.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | zabzonk wrote:
         | i have this problem with posts that puport to answer "how-do-i-
         | do this" questions on Windows and other desktops:
         | 
         | me: how do i do X?
         | 
         | them: just click on "find" and then...
         | 
         | me: but where is "find"??? i have quite heavily modified
         | desktop.
         | 
         | if these people posted a screenshot instead of describing the
         | gui interaction in text, i could almost certainly work it out.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | Reason _n_ to not customise _anything_.
        
         | napierzaza wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | fallinghawks wrote:
         | "I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this
         | margin is too narrow to contain."
        
       | codeisawesome wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | PrimeMcFly wrote:
         | Eh, that's very old, and it was somewhat of a polarizing
         | opinion after the doc came out. Plenty of Indans thought Apu
         | was fine as he was.
        
           | codeisawesome wrote:
           | > Plenty of Indians thought that Apu was fine as he was.
           | 
           | An apology was due to the rest of the Indians & South Asians
           | who didn't think the caricature 'Apu' was "fine", and one was
           | issued; plus even better, the show runners have learned that
           | you can actually make comedy without minimising or othering
           | cultural / ethnic groups. Great outcome.
        
             | PrimeMcFly wrote:
             | One was issued because it was easier than not issuing it,
             | that's it. I disagree any apology was owed when the other
             | half thought Apu was a good thing, a well fleshed out and
             | developed character bringing part of their culture to
             | masses that would otherwise never encounter it. But, it is
             | what it is.
        
           | psychphysic wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | stanski wrote:
             | I don't know why but society appears to always need to
             | over-correct. There is no middle.
        
               | codeisawesome wrote:
               | > I don't know why but society appears to always need to
               | over-correct. There is no middle.
               | 
               | This comment does not contain substantiation and only an
               | opinion. So I'll similarly state mine: this was not an
               | overcorrection at all, it's less action than is due to
               | right the past wrongs.
        
               | gorjusborg wrote:
               | Viewing any stereotype as wrong is overcorrection.
               | Stereotypes exist because they model things roughly.
        
         | laserdancepony wrote:
         | Come on, please do not kill all the fun stuff we have for your
         | CRT PC stuff. I prefer it the old fashioned way.
        
           | codeisawesome wrote:
           | Including but not limited to Apu, the pervasive caricaturing
           | of brown skinned people in Western media as nothing but
           | cringeworthy clowns or treacherous villains is hurtful to me
           | personally. I'm sorry that the feelings of folks like myself
           | "kills all the fun" for you, but I'm thankful that society is
           | no longer held hostage to old fashioned tastes.
        
       | sorokod wrote:
       | I believe that this is the same episode in which Bart, who has
       | brittle bones, drinks Mulk.
        
         | veave wrote:
         | No, that's The PTA Disbands.
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | Malk
        
           | galleywest200 wrote:
           | Malk now comes with with "Vitamin R", which is slang for
           | "Rainier Beer" in the Pacific Northwest where Mat Groening
           | went to college.
        
             | SmellTheGlove wrote:
             | I believe he was promised dog or better.
        
               | robertoandred wrote:
               | People love rats, but they don't want to drink the rats'
               | milk?
        
           | sorokod wrote:
           | Ah, that's the one.
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | This is from 2003. Might want to add (2003) to the headline.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mosselman wrote:
       | Did it ever turn out to contain nicotine?
        
         | lo_zamoyski wrote:
         | Tomato plants already contain nicotine, though in small
         | amounts. Both belong to the nightshade family, and I believe
         | all nightshades produce nicotine.
        
           | mathgeek wrote:
           | I find a source useful for claims like these, so here you go:
           | https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | sdrothrock wrote:
       | I was curious about what happened since the write-up ends
       | abruptly before revealing the testing results.
       | 
       | Wikisimpsons has a bit more info sourced from DVD commentary
       | revealing that the tomacco had no nicotine in it:
       | https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Tomacco#Behind_the_Laughter
       | 
       | Wikidoc has even more detail but no sources:
       | https://wikidoc.org/index.php/Tomacco
        
         | gwern wrote:
         | The Scientific American article in question:
         | https://gwern.net/doc/biology/1959-robinson.pdf
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | That doesn't sound reliable. Tomatoes all have some naturally
         | occurring nicotine, I would be surprised one grafted to a
         | tobacco plant somehow has...none?
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | I just figured the writer tasted it and perished.
        
         | Alex3917 wrote:
         | That's not entirely surprising. The whole point of grafting is
         | to clone the plant you're taking scion wood from. Are there any
         | examples where choice of rootstock can affect things like
         | flavor? I've heard of rootstock affecting things like vigor,
         | disease resistance, and cold hardiness, but never anything like
         | taste or psychoactivity.
        
           | manmal wrote:
           | Tobacco plants produce nicotine in their roots, so it would
           | have been possible that the tomato received some.
        
         | veave wrote:
         | There are sources here
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Products_produced_from_The_Sim...
        
       | dinkblam wrote:
       | Aaaah Tomacco!
       | 
       | Slightly off-topic trivia: there is a reference to Tomaccos in
       | the story-mode of the game CoreBreach
       | (https://www.corecode.io/corebreach/). [Probably cannot be
       | obtained anymore for quite a few years now - certainly won't run
       | with modern OSs]. Further references are made to Blade Runner,
       | Soylent Green, Terry Pratchett, etc, etc
       | 
       | There were also a number of hidden Simpson and Family Guy related
       | easter-eggs, none of which were ever discovered.
        
       | prvc wrote:
       | No update since 2003?
        
         | nkko wrote:
         | It probably had a fatal dose of nicotine.
        
           | sand500 wrote:
           | Or they dilute it with regular tomatoes for their unusually
           | successful pizza chain.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Great, so some day, coworkers will get up at least once an
             | hour for pizza breaks?
        
       | barathr wrote:
       | Just wait till you see this: grafting tomatoes and eggplant on
       | tree Solanaceae (tomato relatives) in Italy:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMTQeiLxABg
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUO1vTrMRbc
       | 
       | You get the benefits of the tree's deep roots and ease of
       | harvest. Even if you don't know Italian the videos are amazing.
        
         | soligern wrote:
         | Isn't wild Solanaceae a deadly poison in most cases?
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | This is why you don't just copy and paste I researched
           | answers from SO.
        
           | barathr wrote:
           | Some are and some aren't. The key question is whether the
           | fruits grown on grafted branches have the toxins. There's no
           | definitive study. This rootstock appears to be S. torvum. The
           | gardener who's doing it has been doing it for years
           | apparently with no ill health effects. Might be worth someone
           | studying both his produce and his health to find out.
        
       | veave wrote:
       | You can cut plants and fuse them just like that?
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Yep, is called grafting.
         | 
         | It does not survive unless both plants are closely related
        
         | lbourdages wrote:
         | It doesn't work in all cases but potatoes and tomatoes are
         | closely related (potato fruits exist and are very poisonous,
         | they look like cherry tomatoes).
         | 
         | Orchards typically graft branches of the desired apple variety
         | onto rootstock of an apple tree that has the size
         | characteristics they want - typically, smaller trees as they
         | can fit more per hectare and i's easier to pick if the branches
         | don't grow as tall.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | The potato, the tomato and the aubergine (eggplant) are all
           | genus _Solanum_. They are close relatives.
           | 
           | The genus is related to the European nightshade family,
           | colloquially known as "deadly nightshade" with good reason.
           | When tomatos were first brought to Europe from the Americas,
           | they were used purely decoratively as everyone believe they
           | would be toxic as they were clearly similar to the highly
           | poisonous nightshades.
           | 
           | One of the only uses of nightshade was for an extract to
           | paralyse the muscles of the iris, leading to very dilated
           | pupils and big dark eyes, considered a sign of beauty in
           | women. Thus the Latin name: "belladonna" -- literally,
           | "bella" (beautiful) "donna" (lady).
        
         | michaelbuckbee wrote:
         | My grandparents had an apple tree that had ~6 different
         | varieties of apples growing off of it from all the grafts that
         | they'd done to it, was neat to see as a kid.
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | Some people go a bit crazy, here is a man who has grafted
           | 250ish varieties. Sorry about the Daily Mail link.
           | 
           | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2437247/amp/250-var.
           | ..
        
         | adrian_b wrote:
         | Yes, grafting, i.e. this method of plant propagation, is useful
         | either for plants for which simpler cloning methods do not work
         | or for providing various useful properties, like resistance to
         | certain plant diseases.
         | 
         | Grafting has probably been invented somewhere closer to Central
         | Asia around four to five thousand years ago and then it has
         | spread through Western Asia and through Europe, about at the
         | same time with the spread of the domesticated horses and with
         | the spread of the Indo-European languages.
         | 
         | Before the invention of grafting, there were only a little more
         | than a handful of cultivated species of fruit trees, i.e.
         | mostly those which produce clones naturally (e.g. grape vines,
         | olive trees, fig trees, date palms and a few others). By using
         | grafting, a large number of additional fruit trees could be
         | cultivated, starting with apples and pears.
         | 
         | The reason why grafting is necessary is that in most cases the
         | trees grown from the seeds produced by a tree with big and
         | sweet fruits may have small and sour fruits. To preserve the
         | properties of the original tree, it must be cloned. By using
         | grafting on an appropriate rootstock any tree can be cloned.
        
           | uptime wrote:
           | > The reason why grafting is necessary is that in most cases
           | the trees grown from the seeds produced by a tree with big
           | and sweet fruits may have small and sour fruits.
           | 
           | This. Any apples grown for consumption are from grafts. Apple
           | trees grown from seed are wild or experimental to try to find
           | a new graft, or to be the graft base. I was amazed when I
           | heard that planting a Honeycrisp seed would not get you more
           | Honeycrisps in your yard. Cloning only!
        
             | ratmice wrote:
             | I've read a similar thing about pink dogwood, where growing
             | a seedling from it will only have a small chance of being
             | another pink dogwood, more likely than not producing a
             | white one. Because of that they are typically cloned.
        
             | roughly wrote:
             | A follow-on fun fact is that the American legend of Johnny
             | Appleseed makes no sense in this light if you assume the
             | apples were for eating. They're fine for making Applejack,
             | though.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | Plant immune systems are not like those of animals. You can
         | often just slap parts together and they will meld. This likely
         | evolved from plants literally growing on top of each other,
         | such as a small plant growing on top of a log. Neither plant
         | would do well if an immune reaction was initiated every time
         | two root systems met.
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | Yes. But if you follow the laws of the Torah, you may run into
         | some issues:
         | 
         | https://en.toraland.org.il/beit-midrash/halachic-guides/mitz...
         | 
         | For complicated reasons, this is only strictly checked for
         | grapes and for etrogim AFAIK.
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | Eating fruit as a strict Jew must be quite difficult.
           | 
           | > But if you follow the laws of the Torah, you may run into
           | some issues
           | 
           | I can can only imagine how difficult it must get if fruit
           | trees get rules like these.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | The funny thing is that some combinations of scion and
           | rootstock are permitted only if grafting and planting are
           | performed by a non-Jew.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | You can do it yourself and it's fascinating. I have a black
         | doris plum which seems to refuse all grafts, but my apple tree
         | probably has 10ish varieties growing off it. Most are only able
         | support one apple, but the older grafts should be able to take
         | several this coming season.
         | 
         | I am no expert but all you need is some grafting secateurs,
         | some grafting tape and some twigs from a related tree (same
         | genus). For example, apple or pear will go on the same tree,
         | citrus won't.
         | 
         | You make sure the grafted twig is about the same size the twig
         | it's attaching to, bind it up with tape and leave it. The bark
         | grows across cut and strengthens with time.
         | 
         | There are loads of YouTube and website guides, here is one.
         | 
         | https://minnetonkaorchards.com/how-to-graft-an-apple-
         | tree/#:....
        
           | tudorw wrote:
           | I take your 10 and raise ;)
           | 
           | "A horticulturist has managed to nurture a single apple tree
           | which bears 250 different varieties of the fruit."
           | 
           | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-24348394
        
         | barathr wrote:
         | Every single fruit you eat that has a name (e.g. "Fuji" apple
         | or "Hass" avocado) has been grafted, and is a clone of the
         | original plant, grafted on a rootstock that may have other
         | ideal properties.
        
         | ImprovedSilence wrote:
         | Yeah, and I think it's the only way to get any kind of apple
         | tree.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hellcow wrote:
         | Yes, it's called grafting. My neighbor had a single tree which
         | grew oranges, lemons, and limes using this.
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | I have one with three different types of pears
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | And isn't it also the deal that most of our citrus fruits are
           | just weirdo combos of like 4 citrus primitives or something?
        
             | retrac wrote:
             | _Brassica_ are the same way. Turnips, cabbage, bok choi,
             | cauliflower, mustard, rapeseed, Brussel sprouts, kale, etc.
             | Effectively all the same species -- hybrids or cultivars of
             | a few wild ancestors that hybridize easily.
        
             | lproven wrote:
             | Yup. Wikipedia has some good visualisations.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_taxonomy#Hybrids
        
         | TradingPlaces wrote:
         | Yes, in fact most roses and fruit trees are grafted onto
         | different root stock. Most citrus is on sour orange stock.
         | https://citrusrootstocks.org/rootstock-cultivars/ In the case
         | of roses, this is the hideous Dr Huey variety, which will often
         | try and take over the grafted rose
         | https://www.rosenotes.com/2012/03/dr-huey-you-sucker-you.htm...
        
           | goldenkey wrote:
           | Why is the Dr Huey hideous, other than it being misused by
           | humans in odd grafting procedures?
        
             | TradingPlaces wrote:
             | Just a personal opinion, and one shared by many. The
             | cultivar was bred by a dentist named Huey not for looks or
             | scent like most roses, but for the rootstock. It tends to
             | grow long unorganized canes very prone to disease, and the
             | flowers are small with few petals. We have 32 rose bushes,
             | and every spring I have to watch out for Dr Huey taking
             | over.
        
         | trolan wrote:
         | Fun fact: all over the world vineyards use an American variant
         | of grapes for their rootstock and graft their preferred
         | European/Peruvian/etc grapes on top. This makes them more
         | disease resistant and in some cases means the cultivar of
         | European grapes can survive at all after disease had almost
         | wiped them out.
         | 
         | All your citrus and apples from the store are like this, and
         | why they don't grow true to seed. The seeds are open pollinated
         | by whatever is around but the fruit was from a single plant
         | hand selected dozens or more years ago and produces that exact
         | fruit over and over again. It would take hundreds of years to
         | 'stabilize' those traits in the seeds and in that time, you'd
         | probably find another great variety and keep that around to
         | graft to other plants.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | The use of grafting for grapevines has become necessary only
           | after the insect phylloxera has been brought accidentally
           | from USA to Britain and France at the beginning of the second
           | half of the 19th century and then it has devastated most
           | European vineyards.
           | 
           | The American vines are resistant to phylloxera.
           | 
           | Previously, grapevine was one of the few sources of sweet
           | fruits which did not require grafting, because it propagates
           | naturally through clones.
        
             | CSMastermind wrote:
             | It's worth noting that there are a handful (like less than
             | 10) vineyards in Europe have escaped infestation so far and
             | thus have their original rootstock:
             | 
             | https://www.decanter.com/features/phylloxera-the-great-
             | escap...
             | 
             | This includes 2 Pinot Noirs in France, 1 Tinta Barroca used
             | to make Port in Portugal, 1 Sangiovese from Italy, 1
             | Monastrell from Spain, and 4 Nerello Mascalese from Sicily.
             | 
             | There used to be 3 Pinot Noirs in France but one succumbed
             | in 2004 and the Monastrell in Spain is verging on
             | succumbing.
             | 
             | There are also vineyards that have been planted with
             | European rootstock since the infestination of the
             | continent. These include vineyards in Portugal, Sicily,
             | California, Chile, and Australia where soil conditions
             | prevent the bugs from getting to the roots.
        
           | galangalalgol wrote:
           | I read a, possibly mythical, story about a group that
           | surreptitiously grafted various fruit branches onto the shade
           | trees lining some streets in a major city. Several years
           | later the mess on the sidewalk caused the city to cut them
           | off.
        
             | vtbassmatt wrote:
             | https://weburbanist.com/2015/10/22/guerrilla-grafting-
             | public... maybe?
        
             | malfist wrote:
             | Grafting generally only works within families. I.e. you
             | can't graft a chestnut onto an apple tree.
             | 
             | I doubt many (if any) shade trees would support a fruit.
             | 
             | That said, families can be surprisingly large. Most citrus
             | all come from the same four parent plants and you can mix
             | most of them. Apples and plums are also closely related
        
               | pvaldes wrote:
               | My bet would be on japanese crabapple
        
               | 13of40 wrote:
               | Where I live there are a lot of non-fruiting cherry and
               | plum trees planted for shade, so I can imagine people
               | grafting on a fruit bearing branch here and there.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Do this fan knew that tomatoes have yet nicotine included without
       | any special treatment?
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-22 23:01 UTC)