[HN Gopher] Kevin Mitnick has died
___________________________________________________________________
Kevin Mitnick has died
Author : thirtyseven
Score : 3546 points
Date : 2023-07-19 23:53 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dignitymemorial.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dignitymemorial.com)
| latenightcoding wrote:
| A literal hacker news. RIP.
| DoesntMatter22 wrote:
| Wow that's so unexpected. He's been an icon in the computing
| community for 30 years. He's gone way too soon. I didn't even
| know he was sick.
| henrik_w wrote:
| I really enjoyed reading his book Ghost in the Wires. It is the
| story of Mitnick's hacking career, from the start in his teens,
| through becoming the FBI's most wanted hacker, to spending years
| in jail before finally being released. It's a fascinating book
| that at times reads like a thriller. One of the things that
| struck me when reading it was how often he used social
| engineering to gain access to systems.
|
| I wrote more about it here:
|
| https://henrikwarne.com/2015/12/27/social-engineering-from-k...
| zsiddique wrote:
| I remember reading Kevin Mitnick books in the early 2000s and it
| really open my eyes about social engineering and how hacking is
| more than just cracking a code. Help me become a better DevOps
| and Software Engineer.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Same! His book on social engineering was profound to my teenage
| mind. Rest in peace.
| captainkrtek wrote:
| Rest in peace. Like many others here, Mitnick was an inspiration
| to me when I was younger, believe he truly embodied the hacker
| ethos. "Ghost in the wires" is a fantastic and fun read.
| user3939382 wrote:
| I have a lot of nostalgia for the old 80s/90s hacking
| counterculture which doesn't seem to really exist anymore.
|
| "FREE KEVIN" :'(
| metalloid wrote:
| A true legend.
| SEJeff wrote:
| dang / mods: if anyone passing deserves the HN black banner, I
| think Mitnick deserves the banner.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Comments are a no-op. To reach moderators, email
| hn@ycombinator.com.
| ecohen16 wrote:
| 1+ here
| ineedasername wrote:
| I second that request @dang
| 627467 wrote:
| +1
| m4jor wrote:
| I second in backing this request. 1+ pls give black banner.
| mindcrime wrote:
| 100% agreed.
| whyenot wrote:
| I am going to swim against the current and ask that you please
| not do this. His crimes weren't victimless and his actions hurt
| real people. While I think pancreatic cancer is a terrible
| thing to die from, and while I feel for his loved ones, HN's
| black banner is a mark of honor, and that is not something I
| think he earned.
| PostOnce wrote:
| The company running this website was cofounded by the man who
| wrote the first internet worm, there's a chapter about rtm
| and pg in some of the same books that talk about Mitnick.
|
| Nobody's perfect.
| Keyframe wrote:
| Absolutely. This is "hacker" news after all, and if there ever
| was one it was him. You don't have to think highly of him, but
| Mitnick was an institution.
| charles_f wrote:
| +1, he was a figurehead of computer science and technology, he
| should get the black banner.
| cjensen wrote:
| As one of the people whose credit card number was stolen from
| Netcom, I would strongly object to this. I'm not here to speak
| poorly of the dead, but I'm definitely here to judge those who
| think too highly of him.
| capableweb wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that you suffered from the event, and
| although I'm sure you're not the only one with a negative
| experience, I do think the positive experiences people had
| from interacting/watching/hearing/meeting/reading Mitnick
| outweigh the negative ones.
| mabbo wrote:
| Did this cost you money personally, or just inconvenience
| you?
| cjensen wrote:
| Are you asking if I lost money or was inconvenienced when
| someone stole my personal info? If I steal your medical
| records, are you only victimized if I share them?
| DANmode wrote:
| I was sympathetic to your comments, but this is goalpost
| changing.
|
| Credit card numbers and medical records are worlds apart
| in actual sensitivity.
| [deleted]
| eaiteut wrote:
| [dead]
| icedchai wrote:
| It's almost always an inconvenience, and doesn't cost you a
| thing. They refund the fraud, and send a new card. You
| might have to fill out some paperwork.
| qotgalaxy wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| callalex wrote:
| Is that Mitnic's fault? Or the incompetent greedy executives
| of Netcom?
| cjensen wrote:
| What greedy executives? This was the early days of the
| Internet and there was tons of competition. And yes, OF
| COURSE IT WAS MITNIC'S FAULT. Why in 2023 would you even
| _think_ of blaming the victim.
| TigeriusKirk wrote:
| As someone else whose credit card info was stolen from
| Netcom, I strongly support it.
| SEJeff wrote:
| It isn't about thinking highly of him. His impact on security
| is well documented and very extensive. The black banner is
| used for honoring notable technologists who pass away.
| Regardless of personal thoughts, he was a very notable
| technologist and sort of first famous social engineer.
|
| I'm sorry he stole your cc.
| tanseydavid wrote:
| Plus, Mitnick is practically the dictionary definition of
| "hacker".
| eelhazred wrote:
| I think "cracker" is the more apt term.
| joshspankit wrote:
| No it is not.
| justinclift wrote:
| "cracker" in that context is used to mean "system
| cracker" rather than "hacker".
| joshspankit wrote:
| There's a longer-standing definitions from when Kevin was
| first called a hacker (and from before he was first put
| in jail)
| cjensen wrote:
| I appreciate your kindness towards me.
|
| But he wasn't a first famous social engineer. That was
| extremely old hat by then.
|
| People keep claiming he is a notable technologist, but I
| can't think of how. The Internet and other systems had
| intrinsic design flaws in the early day because it was
| birthed as an overly trusted network of well-known peers.
| Poking for flaws in those days didn't require any skill.
| The Morris worm, for example, was extremely skillful.
|
| My biggest exposure to anything related to him is KnowBe4
| and it is an utter piece of crap. It provides training
| modules that have no idea who their audience is so it veers
| wildly between terrible advice and overly technical advice
| with alongside the correct advice.
|
| And lastly, and I mean this sincerely, my condolences to
| his family and friends. No one should have to go through
| this so young.
| ourmandave wrote:
| As the black hats at 2600 would say, "It was just for
| educational purposes." <wink>
| owenmarshall wrote:
| As someone too young to have a credit card in 1995, I'm
| curious: was its theft more of a "big deal" back then?
|
| My Amex account number was stolen a month ago. It took me
| three minutes on the call with a rep to get it locked + a new
| card issued. I think I spent more time and effort on the
| phone with my dentist later that week.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Less fraud protection. I got my first credit card in 1998
| and started paying attention.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_and_Accurate_Credit_Tr
| a...
|
| This gave prior anti-fraud legislation more teeth and had a
| huge impact.
| kazinator wrote:
| I just have to log into my online banking app, click on the
| credit card, and then slide a lock switch from left to
| right. A prompt comes up whether I'd like to report it lost
| or stolen too. If it's just misplaced, I don't have to
| bother.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| Credit card number theft isn't so bad today. Having someone
| cash a fake check from your bank account is another story.
| You need to close the whole account and lose all your bill
| pay stuff. All the regular incoming transfers (VA,
| pensions, etc) have to be updated to a new account. Some of
| those take up to 45 days to change over. You also have to
| send a notarized document that the check wasn't from you to
| the bank and wait for them to restore the funds.
|
| Source: Someone cashed a fake check against my terminally
| ill father's People's Bank checking account this year and
| it was a couple months of work to deal with the fallout.
| Faking a check is absurdly easy and US banks kinda suck at
| dealing with it.
| latchkey wrote:
| Yes. People were afraid to put their credit card into early
| websites because they were afraid of theft. It took decades
| to convince people it was 'safe'. Only thing that makes it
| safe these days is the fact that now credit card companies
| won't hold you responsible for the theft. That theft is
| then offset and socialized by the insanely high APYs.
| dsies wrote:
| What a great idea. He was part of the hacker subculture -
| regardless of what your opinion of him or his abilities is.
| This made me think of the takedown.com telnet transcripts -
| what a blast from the past.
|
| Really sad day, RIP - will definitely have a drink for him
| tonight.
| acjohnson55 wrote:
| The man who put the term "hacker" on the map, for better or for
| worse.
| throwaway29303 wrote:
| Hear hear
| lsllc wrote:
| Concur.
| Simulacra wrote:
| @Dang
| ineedasername wrote:
| @dang
|
| :'(
| john-radio wrote:
| I was just thinking, his obituary is both the worst kind of,
| and the absolute definition of, the term "hacker news."
| q-base wrote:
| I will by no means say that I followed or knew him. But the name
| was familiar and I suddenly remembered who he was and that I had
| his book on my wishlist for christmas. Sorry to hear about the
| loss.
|
| I do like some of his approaches to life. There are some
| similarities between him and Richard Feynman.
|
| Who comes to mind if I would like to follow some still living
| people that has this rebellious, "joire de vivre" way of life?
| frellus wrote:
| Wow. My first encounter with Kevin Mitnick was a random one..
| joining one of my school's IRC channels one day there was there
| guy on it who was bragging about how he had broken into our
| central AIX server, would read the admins' e-mail all the time
| and for every hole they plugged he would just find another one.
|
| I was just a university Freshman just starting my CS classes, and
| seeing this discussion, it was like I had entered some
| underground revolutionary meeting. It opened my eyes to mischief
| and testing the boundaries of systems and order where this guy
| who was on IRC as root@system was just calmly saying how the
| technical universe I was just learning about was controllable in
| ways I had no clue about.
|
| I never followed the case after he was prosecuted, and I didn't
| go down the hacker route in my career, but it was a life-changing
| moment for me to see this outsider live out "War Games" in real
| life.
|
| RIP, root. Your crimes and mischief certainly didn't define you,
| especially as you went down the ethical hacker path (the first?).
| Pancreatic cancer is a horrible way to go, I am sorry to see this
| story today and condolences to his family and friends.
| dumdumchan wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MctHTxESCFM
| kennyloginz wrote:
| This guy was so dedicated, he got a job at the DMV. Kind of sad,
| it sounded like he was liked and got a long with his coworkers at
| that job.
| nimmen wrote:
| Surely legend of the era. Remember some obscure court
| restrictions for him at the time, not quite sure they were real,
| or hoax, or urban legends...
| r00f wrote:
| I got into IT because of him mainly. When I was 12, where I was
| growing up I was the only one who knew what a computer is. I
| remember reading his story somewhere, then I got to my mom's
| computer at her office and read all I could find about his story.
|
| I wrote "Free Kevin Mitnick!" with a black marker on my tshirt
| and was walking around my town proudly wearing it. Nobody
| understood anything about it but it made me feel like involved
| into some secret society.
|
| Next year I convinced parents to pay for me learning QBasic (the
| only computer course in my town back then), and 3 years later I
| got into university on an Information Security specialization.
| Some of my friends say that I was the reason why they got into
| IT. Well, I guess we all owe that to Kevin.
|
| I talked to him in person once at a conference and was happy like
| a little puppy, but being socially awkward as I am I didn't tell
| him that he is my childhood hero. I hope now when he has
| trandcended to the cloud, he has a bird's eye view on our realm
| and can see all the positive impact that he had had on my life
| and lives of people I've influenced...
|
| The very brightest memories
| joshmanders wrote:
| The movie Hackers and Kevin's story were two pinnacles of me
| getting into computers in 1997.
| hellyer wrote:
| [dead]
| EMIRELADERO wrote:
| > Having been threatened with murder and then blackmailed, with
| zero consequence to the perpetrators, I have first hand
| experience dealing with such corruption.
|
| Care to elaborate? This sounds like something too heavy to
| leave behind as a remark on a comment
| hellyer wrote:
| [dead]
| pc86 wrote:
| Not terribly surprising that someone talking about
| sensitivities to electromagnetism has these kinds of
| delusions. I hope you get the help you need.
| hellyer wrote:
| [dead]
| dang wrote:
| Please don't cross into personal attack.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| Woke up on the wrong side of bed, perhaps?
| [deleted]
| goldenkey wrote:
| The same has been done to me by the same systems both
| physical and electronic. I have mental and physical scars to
| show.
|
| The good die young if they don't realize the game they are
| playing quick enough. Godspeed.
| hellyer wrote:
| [dead]
| callalex wrote:
| This is an extremely insensitive time and place to troll.
| Shame on you.
| dang wrote:
| Just FYI, I don't think the other user was trolling. HN
| has a certain number of commenters coming from (let's
| say) distressed points of view. One can sometimes guess
| at this from the comment history. I don't mean to single
| anyone out, just to say that it's a regular if not a
| common pattern. It's not always easy to find a
| compassionate way to handle it but I think it's important
| to try.
| hellyer wrote:
| [dead]
| dang wrote:
| We detached this subthread from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36795360 and marked it off
| topic.
|
| I'm sorry you've gone through such distressing experiences and
| definitely don't want to add to the distress, but I also don't
| want replies from HN commenters to add to it unintentionally.
| ineedasername wrote:
| This sounds like an interesting story I'd like to hear. One
| that might shine light and spread the word about about such
| things.
|
| Chisel off the serial numbers of these stories and have at it.
| anta40 wrote:
| RIP Kevin.
|
| Many many years ago, during undergraduate days, I used to study
| "Art of Deception", wanted to became a security hacker one day.
|
| Now my topic of interest has shifted. Nevertheless, that book
| still reminds me that human is still the weakest link in security
| chain. You don't have to be super smart in exploiting code.
| marsven_422 wrote:
| [dead]
| bunkiol wrote:
| [flagged]
| eddieroger wrote:
| May his memory be a blessing.
| victorbjorklund wrote:
| Oh no. He is a hero that taught so many people.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Watch "Freedom downtime".
|
| There they make it clear that the New York Times columnist and
| book author John Markoff made up absolutely everything.
|
| The movie "Track Down" (US) / "Takedown" is also full of BS.
| e12e wrote:
| And read "Ghost in the Wires":
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wires-Adventures-Worlds-Wanted-...
| Simulacra wrote:
| Oh My Gosh this is so sad !
| elchief wrote:
| The internet is a safer but sadder place
|
| Read Ghost in the Wire as a young man and it inspired me to get
| into computers
|
| Rest in Peace, brother
| par wrote:
| His recent enterprise, KnowBe4, was doing security training for
| companies, trying to make the internet safer! So you could say
| we're less safe with him gone :(
| daedlanth wrote:
| [dead]
| brightball wrote:
| An absolute legend! I have 2 of his books here at my house.
| josh2600 wrote:
| Mitnick was a hacker hero of mine in my youth. I think I've
| understood his role as jester prior to conviction less as I've
| grown older, but there's something about the boyhood charm of
| being so divorced from the potential consequences of one's
| actions that is almost unique.
|
| Mitnick had so many stories that entranced the people around him.
| I heard one second hand of Mitnick dealing with a bank who had
| early voice verification software. Upon meeting the CEO he gave
| the executive his card and departed for the evening. Arriving
| back at his hotel, he called the CEO and asked him to read his
| phone number to him. The phone number contained all ten digits
| which Mitnick had neatly tape recorded so as to make the CEO's
| voice reproducible. He then proceeded to use the bank's vocal
| banking system to transfer $1 from the CEO's account to his as
| the authentication mechanism was reading out your own account
| number in your voice.
|
| When Mitnick arrived back in the board room the architect of the
| voice verification system was crestfallen and the bank CEO
| delivered a check on a silver platter.
|
| Now how much of that tale is embellished I will never know as it
| was second hand, but that was the kind of whimsy Mitnick brought
| to our world.
|
| Rest in Power.
| sbilstein wrote:
| As a kid I ate this stuff up. In the eighth grade, I defaced my
| middle school website.
|
| The IT person easily figured out it was me and then tricked me
| into thinking I would be expelled within days. She pulled me
| out of class, told me such in the hallway, let me return to
| class where I held in tears until the end of the day.
|
| Nothing happened and the school year ended a few weeks later.
| Towards the end of the summer I realized it had been a bluff
| and I wouldn't be punished. Took me a few years later to
| realize how much of a favor that all was! The county school of
| conduct clearly said cybercrime was punishable by expulsion so
| she could have absolutely put me in some kind of hell. The fear
| set me straight hah.
| ntietz wrote:
| I had a similar thing happen. I distributed some malware I
| wrote on the shared drive and had some people run it (it was
| extremely basic, just locked people out of the computer with
| no recovery by taking advantage of how locked down they were;
| but people lost a lot of work). My programming teacher, who
| was already dealing with me being a distraction in class,
| went to bat for me so I didn't get strongly punished but made
| me clean it off the drive continuously; other students kept
| putting it back, so I had to monitor for it.
| busyant wrote:
| > The IT person easily figured out it was me and then tricked
| me into thinking I would be expelled within days.
|
| Similar. I wrote a program to emulate a the logon text on a
| PDP-11 terminal in high-school in the mid-80s and steal a
| bunch of student passwords. Didn't do anything with them.
| They were like "trophies."
|
| Nevertheless, the computer teacher found out and had mercy on
| me. He gave me a project to work on to help him compile stats
| on a student survey. He was a nice guy.
|
| edit for clarity.
| steviedotboston wrote:
| > Mitnick was a hacker hero of mine in my youth. I think I've
| understood his role as jester prior to conviction less as I've
| grown older, but there's something about the boyhood charm of
| being so divorced from the potential consequences of one's
| actions that is almost unique.
|
| Yeah, I remember watching "Freedom Downtime" as a teenager and
| thinking how ludicrous it was that he was sentenced to prison
| for computer hacking, but now that I think about it as an adult
| of course he should have been. Sure solitary confinment, the
| specifics of his sentence, etc. may have been extreme and I'd
| like to think that the court system has progressed in their
| knowledge of computer security since then, but what he did was
| still a breach of corporate security. He knew at the time it
| was illegal, and he just thought he was too smart to get
| caught.
|
| That idea that we had at the time that it was a "victimless
| crime" or something was very immature.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| How would he have known the CEO's bank account number? Did the
| CEO write him a check at some point? Or maybe a bank's CEO
| traditionally gets account number 1...
| 77pt77 wrote:
| > How would he have known the CEO's bank account number?
|
| Welcome to the american banking system.
| krab wrote:
| The european bank account numbers are often posted
| publicly. If you are a VAT payer, you're supposed to check
| that the account you send money to is registered with the
| business in the public registry. Otherwise you may be held
| liable for the receiver's tax fraud. Many companies also
| show them at their webpage to make it easier to get paid.
| See e.g. https://www.pre.cz/en/contacts/bank-details/
|
| The account number should be just an ID, not authentication
| mechanism.
| oli-g wrote:
| > The account number should be just an ID, not
| authentication mechanism.
|
| Right? One of the many things (and I mean this without
| any hate whatsoever) I simply can't and will never
| understand about the US. A bank account number is your
| mailbox for receiving money. How does that country even
| operate when they build those mailboxes underground?
| [deleted]
| sclarisse wrote:
| You send the money to a literal mailbox instead. That's
| how.
|
| (Using a check, the very infrastructure we've been
| talking about!!)
| thfuran wrote:
| But then you've given out your bank account number, so
| the secrecy is bunk.
| internetter wrote:
| The US bank security system confuses me. To accept money,
| I need to give out my routing number and account number.
| Using those numbers, someone could theoretically withdraw
| money... Maybe... The whole system is built upon
| obscurity. Why do some stores need a pin on my debit
| card, and some do not? Why do online stores need my name
| and address, but IRL ones do not? How did that one online
| store charge me without my CVV? How can restaurants swipe
| my card now and charge me later?
|
| I only send and receive money with Google/Apple Pay &
| PayPal at this point. This flow is reasonable (every
| transaction is authorised in a trusted location (ie:
| PayPal). Further transactions are impossible without
| additional authorization). It boggles my mind that banks
| & CC companies haven't made some standard for this. Would
| save them so much money in fraud protection.
| sclarisse wrote:
| > Why do some stores need a pin on my debit card, and
| some do not?
|
| Oh that's easy enough. If they need a PIN it's actually
| being run as a debit card over the debit card network.
| Otherwise it's being run as a "check card" over the
| credit card network (with higher fees and better consumer
| protections). It's just backed with money instead of a
| line of credit.
|
| > Why do online stores need my name and address, but IRL
| ones do not?
|
| IRL stores have access to the actual card (with your
| name) and having this artifact present makes it much less
| likely that you are a fraudulent fraudster committing
| fraud, so the processors are willing to take it.
|
| > How can restaurants swipe my card now and charge me
| later?
|
| the good news is if the store ever defrauds you, everyone
| knows where to find the store! Unlike fraudsters making
| purchases.
| [deleted]
| craftkiller wrote:
| Bank account numbers aren't secret, they're written on the
| bottom of every check you write. The story lacks the details
| of how he got his hands on it but its not unreasonable to
| assume he was able to access such unprotected information.
| [deleted]
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| Yeah I know, I wondered in the comment whether CEO might
| have written Mitnick a check
| randombits0 wrote:
| [flagged]
| gabereiser wrote:
| He used the CEO's voice to access AN account, I don't think
| it was the CEO's specifically. But just an account, verified
| by the CEO's voice, to his.
| jhugo wrote:
| I doubt the bank's authentication system is built to allow
| the CEO's voice to authenticate a transfer out of _any
| account_ ...
| nobleach wrote:
| I doubt it as well. Back in the day, I worked for an
| elected official who insisted on being a Domain Admin in
| our Active Directory tree. My co-worker and I used to
| joke, "think he wants to be a Schema Admin too?"
| LawTalkingGuy wrote:
| When you do pen testing you're given a limited list of
| valid targets.
|
| I imagine that the mission parameters were that he take a
| check and remove money from the account.
|
| It would also make sense that this is the CEO's account,
| or one he also controls, because he's in on the test and
| can give informed consent. Also, probably the CEO doesn't
| have any special access so breaking into his identity
| wouldn't impact the bank the way breaking into the IT
| manager's account might.
|
| If this was a fake account (one with no real user) then
| they wouldn't have discovered this flaw because Mitnick
| couldn't have called the user. Having a real person be
| exploitable is essential to proper discovery of the full
| scope of the problems.
| gabereiser wrote:
| This is probably closer to the truth. That it was a test
| all along.
| detourdog wrote:
| At Schwab my voice is my password. Is how Schwab
| authenticates me by voice. That demonstrates to me schwab
| knows they need a voice passphrase that wouldn't be used
| in passing or without raising suspicion.
| noSyncCloud wrote:
| This comment is very hard to parse, but after reading it,
| I feel a general sense of relief that I'll never use
| Schwab.
| detourdog wrote:
| After over 30 years of perfect service. Schwab has done
| something so egregious that I'm leaving them. They used
| to be the best bank I ever used.
|
| Finally I'm know that passphrase is tied to my phone
| number. Its not perfect but it is as good as any other
| consumer banks system.
|
| I don't recommend Schwab but my accounts are as secure as
| any.
| larntz wrote:
| At first I thought this was a reference to the movie
| Sneakers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zVgWpVXb64),
| but after searching it seems Wells Fargo also does this,
| https://www.wellsfargo.com/privacy-security/voice-
| verificati....
| detourdog wrote:
| I just thought it was an interesting contrast to the bank
| executive story. Which demonstrated how the passphrase
| may have evolved and that moving money is done by voice
| authentication today.
|
| Using just ones voice is bad. Using a phrase is better.
| Using a phrase that is unique and describes its function
| may set-off alarm bells for some.
|
| I never connected the phrase with Sneakers.
| gabereiser wrote:
| This was a long time ago. It was a small bank. I also
| heard it through the grape vine and not from him himself.
| I could definitely be wrong but this is what was told to
| me by someone who was there.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Mitnick was exceptionally gifted at social engineering
| information out of various company departments over the
| phone.
| alex-moon wrote:
| All of the stories in his books are like this. An existing
| seemingly sensible system is used in a creative way to get
| access. Every time you read one the creative solution is so
| elegant you just go "Ah, can't believe I didn't think of that"
| (and then go try it yourself obviously - had lots of fun as a
| teenager taking down websites/stealing ppl's passwords/etc as a
| party trick for my friends).
| OJFord wrote:
| Seemingly sensible? This one?
|
| > the authentication mechanism was reading out your own
| account number in your voice
|
| That's the most suspect part of it to me - even vulnerability
| to malicious attack like this aside, who would think that's a
| good idea or going to work well?
|
| What percentage of people could successfully use a voice
| assistant to make a note of their bank account number the
| first time? Nevermind have it determine that it was indeed
| their voice not someone else's.
| breezeTrowel wrote:
| Yes, I think this is pretty stupid too.
|
| Ahem.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/sep/22/voice-
| recognit...
| muzani wrote:
| I think something was lost in the retelling. It could just
| be an era when people didn't figure out biometrics yet. It
| makes sense today, but caught up in new hype, people often
| implement cutting edge technology where it doesn't belong.
| emodendroket wrote:
| "Your voice is your password" kind of systems are still
| around.
| abledon wrote:
| I wonder if the same scenario happened today, where a Kid has
| an interaction like that with a bank CEO, showing an insane
| vulnerability... The kid would just be sentenced to jail time
| and charged as an adult.
| dirtybirdnj wrote:
| Or have the Pinkertons sic'd on his home and family. Sup
| friendlyjordies?
| singlow wrote:
| He did this as an adult while being paid by the bank as
| security consultant.
| anon_tech wrote:
| there is a bank in Italy currently that uses this voice
| recognition mechanism which with current AI tech is fakeable
| within 20 min. Nothing much changed since back then I guess
| giamma wrote:
| I know a Bank in Italy that uses voice recognition but you
| also have to provide 2 digits from a "voice password" in
| addition to the voice match.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| About 15 years ago I was using telephone banking, when you
| had to put in a 4-digit PIN to access banking. I could still
| hear background call centre noise so I asked the operator if
| they were still on the phone when I put the PIN in, and he
| confirmed he was.
|
| "Okay, so you heard me type in the PIN? So now you can know
| my PIN?"
|
| "Oh no", he said, "it's just beeps, like this - ", and
| pressed a few digits.
|
| "Right so you typed 1 6 3 2 4, there."
|
| "..."
|
| "That's what you typed, isn't it?"
|
| "Uhm... yes, how did you guess?"
|
| "I didn't guess, I could hear the beeps. I've got a
| reasonable ear for pitch, so I can tell what the numbers are
| from the tones. Any chance you could escalate this to your
| manager after the call, and tell them to give me a phone if
| they've any questions?"
|
| They rang me the next day, and I explained the situation to
| them.
|
| Now, at least in the UK, you get transferred away from the
| call handler when you put your PIN in.
| eduction wrote:
| He has the CEO's number and successfully calls him, and through
| some miracle gets through directly to ask this trivial question
| -- as opposed to getting the number from the assistant who
| answers his phone - sure ok but then under what pretense does
| he then ask him to repeat his phone number? "Please repeat the
| phone number I just dialed."
|
| The phone number contains all the digits needed to recreate the
| bank account number?
|
| He somehow has the bank account number?
|
| He meets the CEO (despite just being a security consultant) and
| gives his report to the board of directors?! That is not how
| companies usually work, especially the board part.
|
| Check on a silver platter? architect of the voice system is
| brought into the room with the board to be humiliated? This
| reads like something a 13 year old would dream up (nothing
| against OP maybe someone even Mitnik really did claim this
| happened).
|
| The tale is absolutely embellished if it has any truth at all.
| stuff4ben wrote:
| This is the 90's and early 2000's. We didn't have the
| security processes and checks like we do nowadays. I worked
| for a bank right after the dot-com crash and was in charge of
| their internet banking web presence. I was witness to other
| employees passing around CDs and printouts containing the
| private information of hundreds, maybe thousands of
| customers. This was the era when your SSN was your userid. So
| these CDs contained SSNs, names, addresses, bank account
| numbers, passwords (not even encrypted, much less salted),
| etc. I moved into a new cubicle one time and saw these CDs
| just left over. It was a free-for-all for people like Kevin
| Mitnick.
| quartz wrote:
| The 90s were wild. We used to just print entire credit card
| numbers on the receipt!
| maestroia wrote:
| In the mid-/late-80's, you could easily get full PII (SSN,
| Name, DOB, address, mother's maiden name, etc) green-bar
| paper reports someone tossed in the trash when finished.
| butterfi wrote:
| I was once asked by Target for my SSN because I was
| returning a product. That was in the early 2000s
| JohnFen wrote:
| I used to keep Richard Nixon's SSN in my wallet for just
| these sorts of situations.
| stuff4ben wrote:
| LOL, I was asked by a pet shelter for my SSN in order to
| adopt a cat. I stupidly put it down on the paper form and
| then asked why they needed it. She didn't have an answer
| and rejected my application to adopt. But she kept the
| paper form in case I tried to reapply in the future. I
| ripped it out of her hands and left. I should have just
| put a phony one in there...
| conductr wrote:
| He probably gained the CEO's trust at some point. Something
| like "I bet I can break into your personal bank account given
| public info?"
|
| CEO interest is piqued. Gives him a business card, let's talk
| soon.
|
| The on the call,
|
| KM: what is your checking account number?
|
| CEO: that's private
|
| KM: it's printed on every personal check you write, so
| definitely not private
|
| CEO: ok, good point, #######
|
| KM: great, now tell me the numbers on the card I gave you
|
| CEO: your phone number?
|
| KM: yes
|
| CEO: ok, ########
|
| KM: ok I think I have what I need
|
| CEO: really? that's it?
|
| KM: yep, let me get to work, we'll talk soon
| thesuitonym wrote:
| He was already meeting with the CEO in some capacity, so it's
| very clear he had access to the CEO, maybe as a security
| consultant. Then getting him to read the number is easy,
| "Hey, I just got a new cell, but I might have given you my
| old card, can you read the number back to me?"
|
| Getting a phone number with all the necessary digits is a bit
| of a stretch, but not impossible. And I would suspect,
| because this is the way phone systems generally work, that
| there was no bound on the number of attempts to enter the
| account number. Account numbers are all the same length, so
| you know exactly how many characters to input, it's just a
| matter of brute forcing the number--and for all I know, there
| may be some kind of structure that Mitnick found out.
|
| Meeting with the board sounds like an embellishment for sure,
| especially for Mitnick's initial report, but I could
| definitely see--especially if someone was looking for a big
| chunk of money to strengthen the system--the report
| _eventually_ being given to them.
|
| The check on the silver platter is the most believable part
| of the story. Have you ever met a CEO? And why wouldn't the
| architect of the system be there to receive the report on the
| security of the system? Who else should be there?
|
| For me, the only truly unbelievable part of this story is
| that he needed the CEO's voice at all. And for all we know,
| he just said he recorded the CEO's voice for a laugh.
| outericky wrote:
| 213-954-8607
|
| Random number, legit area code. Unless you are looking for
| all 10 digits, pretty easy social hack
| psychphysic wrote:
| Yeah, the only worry is someone saying mine fifty four.
| And you don't catch 5.
|
| But that's pretty easy. Sorry I didn't catch that could
| you do it one number at a time?
| mywittyname wrote:
| "Was that sixty four, as in six-four?"
|
| "Sorry, no 54, five-four."
|
| "You said _five_ ... _four_? "
|
| "Yes, _five_ ... _four_. "
|
| Doing the thing you want people to do is actually a
| pretty good strategy.
|
| Recognizing when people are employing this strategy on
| you and intentionally not doing the thing is good fun
| too.
| moritonal wrote:
| Mitnick could have been hired as a advisor for their system,
| personally by the CEO.
|
| He calls the CEO to ask a "personal question" so to skip the
| assistant, asks something innocent, then let's the CEO he has
| a new number and provides a fake number. He asks the CEO to
| confirm he heard the number correctly, but it's a bad line,
| so speak clearly please.
|
| The "new phone number" has all the digits of the bank account
| he's trying to hack. The account is likely the account number
| that he's being paid for the consultancy work with. He could
| have got this simply by asking to confirm from which account
| he'd be paid from to confirm the transaction.
|
| He is asked to report his review of the new security system
| to the board (given it was a large investment by the Bank, or
| just the wrong word used) and the architect would of course
| be invited to his own project's review?
|
| The board then asked Mitnick to design a new system and said
| that cost wouldn't be an issue.
|
| That all seems pretty easy to put together?
| mywittyname wrote:
| It's also possible that the CEO knew what Mitnick was
| getting at and played along to a degree.
|
| Kind of like when your company has a security presentation
| about this new "report phishing button" in your email and
| you suddenly see this weird phishing-like email come
| through a few hours later. Hopefully you connect the dots.
| pelasaco wrote:
| maybe just a legend, who knows. Thats part of his Myth. Now
| it doesnt matter anymore.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| I read it as he asked the CEO to repeat the number that
| Mitnik had given him earlier to ensure that it was correct.
| Closi wrote:
| > He somehow has the bank account number?
|
| Being able to login if you have the bank account number is
| still a pretty big flaw.
|
| If you are a bank, your security threat model should assume
| that a hacker has access to somebody's account number and
| basic personal details.
|
| Particularly for a high profile/value account, you can see
| how it might be possible to get soundclips of them saying the
| numbers 1 to 9 (see:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWcldHxHFpo)
| outericky wrote:
| basically anyone that has gotten a check from me has my
| checking account number...
| mekoka wrote:
| I understood it as him (Mitnick) asking his own phone number
| back. "Did I give you my card earlier? Is it the new card? I
| don't recall. Which number does it have?"
|
| If you've already identified a security system that has this
| vulnerability you get a phone number with all these digits
| and begin shopping for any institutions that bough that
| system.
| BringerOfChaos wrote:
| Prime social engineering.
| breezeTrowel wrote:
| He was pretty famous when he started doing security
| consulting so it doesn't seem like a stretch to me.
|
| Bank account numbers are written on the bottom of checks
| along with the routing code. If you have a check from them,
| you have their checking account number.
|
| Phone numbers are ten digits long. So a number like
| (213)485-7690 contains all digits from 0 to 9. Caller ID
| spoofing is trivial even back then. For example, you could
| ANI fail to a calling card system which would drop you to an
| operator. Then you just tell them the number you're "calling
| from" and that number would show up as your Caller ID and
| ANI.
|
| Using voice authentication is pretty stupid but, iirc, at
| least one US bank still does something similar. That said, I
| imagine part of the authentication was probably caller ID
| based. This was/is also why voicemail systems don't prompt
| you for a PIN when you call them from your own phone - they
| use caller ID for authentication.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| If you're dealing with the bank in a security-consultant
| capacity, then these kinds of requests would be both
| intriguing and informative.
|
| If he's a customer of the bank, then it had better be a very
| small bank or I'm also skeptical.
| tiffanyg wrote:
| Nonsense like "silver platter", almost certainly embellished
| (unless a "Barnum" or "Wonka" or some shiite was running the
| bank). The fundamentals, totally believable.
|
| It's incredibly easy (still) to do certain kinds of "social
| engineering". Terms like "psychological sleight-of-hand" can
| sometimes make it a little clearer how humans just have blind
| spots - ways our perception works and doesn't. And, people
| who are used to being VERY "in control", intelligent /
| experienced (compared to others in room), etc., can sometimes
| be the easiest to manipulate in certain ways.
|
| But, really, it boils down, sometimes, to something as simple
| as "how long can you keep a person talking?" Mitnick was
| probably in a good position to do these sorts of things -
| assuming the story is from after he "turned White Hat". And,
| in this case, the even simpler deal with the numbers is
| something like "oh, shoot, I had a misprint on old cards, did
| I give you the right one? What's the phone number on it?"
| Drop something abruptly like that, at some random point in a
| conversation, most people wouldn't think twice... Even if
| their current context involves a heavy dose of thinking about
| voices and numbers. They might easily enough realize in the
| morning, but, too late, by then. Further, getting bank
| account numbers is not necessarily hard either. Could even be
| as simple as "dumpster diving", back then. Did the CEO always
| shred every single document, with a "secure shredder" (as
| much as that's possible) when home? Or maybe burn everything,
| always?
|
| And, in any case, you're even mixing up aspects of the story.
| The phone number isn't the bank account digits, it's just all
| the numbers from 0 through 9 (you can even get one twice, for
| a 10-digit [w/ area code] number).
|
| I propose that your sureness in dismissing this story,
| misapprehensions about it, etc., make you an unwittingly
| "good _mark_. "
| jahsome wrote:
| Based on my understanding of the story in the post, Mitnick
| asked the CEO to read back the number he gave the CEO earlier
| that day.
|
| I don't disagree it's likely all bullshit, but if you're
| going to post snarky, nitpicking comments at least make sure
| you're understanding what was communicated. It makes it all
| too easy to dismiss any valid points you may have when there
| are such fundamental flaws.
| samstave wrote:
| The 80s was a helluva drug.
|
| Mitniks social engineering really formed me. And I did all
| sorts of nefarious stuff in the 80s, from mapping the 411
| call centers, to the tape vending machine hack and other
| phreaking as I had an original captain crunch whistle to (not
| a hack) but there was a bunch of easy fraud to be had with
| "calling cards" back in the day
| ddkwlfe wrote:
| int(phone number) "contained all ten digits" is the main
| embellishment. KM used different acct#. check delivery was
| weeks later, after negotiations. either way kevin was OG AF
| ..|..
| tunnuz wrote:
| RIP.
| seanhandley wrote:
| I met Kevin at a conference in Manchester where he cloned my HID
| access card and made an amazing demo of how easily this can get a
| company's workstations compromised with keyloggers. It was like
| watching a magician - he was a very skilled, funny, intelligent
| man with a wealth of knowledge. He gave me his business card
| (which is also a lock-picking kit) and I will treasure it.
|
| Thanks for all you taught us Kevin, and thanks for being a beacon
| of curiosity and exploration.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Legend.
|
| A name of inspiration, igniting curiosity across ages. And of
| course, the only crime was curiosity.
|
| RIP
| deffo wrote:
| [flagged]
| atlanta90210 wrote:
| https://www.mitnicksecurity.com/kevin-mitnicks-famous-lockpi...
|
| A link to his famous business card which doubled as a lock pick
| kit. Rip Kevin.
| anonu wrote:
| Kevin came to speak at CMU in the University Center. Maybe around
| 2003/2004. I recall it was standing room only. For me, it was
| like seeing your favorite action hero in real life. Yes he was
| convicted of some crimes, but he showed you could be redeemed and
| continue to live a good, fulfilling life educating others what
| not to do. RIP
| nemo44x wrote:
| Kevin is free, now.
| andromaton wrote:
| I think it's trolling. Single source.
| CaliforniaKarl wrote:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/kevin-mitnick-...
| pelasaco wrote:
| super influential in my life in the end of 90s. If you work in
| the security branch, and had to stay alert on Christmas, because
| hackers love to hacker while Christmas, he was the main
| responsible by this Tradition. Fuck how thrilled I was when I
| watched first time some video of his telnet hacking sessions,
| back in the days... Resist in Peace (RIP)
| neiman1 wrote:
| RIP. I loved reading about Kevin whilst growing up.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlbUYl67LTY
| thallavajhula wrote:
| OMG! This is so sad. I read about Kevin a lot and read the book,
| "The Art of Deception" during my teen years and was fascinated by
| how interesting social engineering was. Once I got into college,
| I got busy and never followed him anymore. I recently read about
| him in some random article and then I read about him now. I
| opened HN to see the black band on top and was worried to know
| who it could be and turns out, it was Kevin.
| dncosta wrote:
| Just read about this.
|
| So many memories from way back, reading up on his story (and
| stories), reading his books, watching "Takedown" over and over
| again ...
|
| No matter how polarising he was, his influence in the field and
| in leading many young people to get into computers and turn that
| into a career is unquestionable, imho.
|
| RIP
| blondie9x wrote:
| Feel bad for the unborn child that will have to be raised without
| a father because his parents decided selfishly to conceive him or
| her due to illness.
|
| Raising a child is more than genetics.
| glitchc wrote:
| It's a lovely obituary. God speed.
| huxky wrote:
| [flagged]
| whynotkeithberg wrote:
| I read his book when I was younger... And at DEFCON 19 I got
| selected to get paired with a celebrity hacker in the 10,000 cent
| hacker pyramid. I ended up getting paired with Kevin Mitnick & we
| played against Dan Kaminsky. It was a really cool experience &
| even though Kaminsky went on to win... It was a ton of fun and
| Kevin was a really cool guy.
|
| I hope his family is doing well.
| bennylava wrote:
| Wow, so much idolatry on here for a criminal.
| sgammon wrote:
| for those of us who grew up without a father, as technologists,
| especially in the 90's and early 2000's, kevin mitnick was
| something of a guiding light.
|
| he gave us permission to explore the darker underbelly of
| technology and was emblematic of a freer (free as in freedom)
| time on the internet. yes, he was a convicted criminal, but he
| was also a complex character who loved to solve puzzles and his
| competitive nature ultimately drove his work.
|
| the famous story of the fbi showing up at his house and kevin
| saying, "no problem, I'll report to the fbi office tomorrow"...
| yeah, that didn't work, but he was the type to try and that was
| beautiful.
| bussiere wrote:
| Fuck ...
|
| He was kind of role model for me, i was inspired by the way he
| saw the world, in everything he was able to see hole and flaw and
| how to exploit them. Where "normal" people just don't think about
| it.
|
| His stories and mischiefs will be missed for me.
| kijab-pi wrote:
| [flagged]
| gizajob wrote:
| Very big, very cheap talk.
|
| The website you're using is called "Hacker News" for a reason.
| zer8k wrote:
| I don't normally get inflammatory but you are a consummate
| moron.
| dang wrote:
| " _Don 't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them
| instead._"
|
| a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| Lolaccount wrote:
| RIP ... absolutely opened my eyes as a kid ... tonight, I'm going
| to dig out the old 30 threadbare paperback about hackers where I
| first learned of him.
| embit wrote:
| Just came here to say Resr In Peace Kevin. You will always be
| remembered.
| eddie_catflap wrote:
| Ghost in the Wires is a laugh out loud read for me. I told him it
| should be a movie and he said there was a screenplay. Hope it
| sees the light of day.
| shaunxcode wrote:
| Black bar.
| newsclues wrote:
| Free Kevin.
| anjel wrote:
| >The real OG of hacking
|
| Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book and Kevin Mittnick taught me the
| noun form meaning of exploit. RIP
| godzillabrennus wrote:
| I met Kevin in Chicago when he was hired to speak at a bank event
| that a friend got me into. His presentation was world class. He
| was quite a guy. Rest in peace.
| Zobat wrote:
| Rarely has "Hacker News" been a more appropriate page name.
|
| RIP Kevin.
| major505 wrote:
| Man, fuck cancer. He still was young, and his wife is pregnant. I
| remember as a kid reading about his exploits, and how much that
| influenced my carrer choice and interest in computers.
|
| Hope he can hack his way into heaven.
| h2odragon wrote:
| Like the Gerber baby, the symbol people recognized didn't
| necessarily have that much to do with the actual person.
|
| RIP dude.
| CSMastermind wrote:
| I didn't know him personally, do you have any stories you can
| share?
| bshipp wrote:
| The....Gerber Baby? Is there a story there? She seems pretty
| normal and pleasant from her Wikipedia.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Turner_Cook
| Kina wrote:
| It doesn't matter who the Gerber Baby really is. Society has
| chosen to associate the Gerber Baby with certain attributes
| regardless of who the person behind the photo really is, and
| so it is with Kevin Mitnick. Mitnick, the real person,
| excelled at social engineering more than any other trait and
| was arguably subjected to malicious prosecution. But in his
| later years, there's a lot of documentation online indicating
| that he didn't live up to the myth that grew around him and
| he was not a pleasant person [1].
|
| People here are mostly reminiscing about Mitnick--the myth,
| not the man.
|
| [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/cybersecurity/comments/uk6wgd/wh
| y_d...
| yreg wrote:
| Regarding your source: People don't behave consistently all
| the time. There are probably people who have briefly met
| you when you were not in a good mood who would say that you
| are a jerk.
| AceyMan wrote:
| I think we'd all be surprised to find out how many
| "legendary", "amazing", "revolutionary" famous people are
| not particularly pleasant. You don't achieve greatness by
| being a sweetheart.
|
| [ftr, I have no idea what his demeanor was; like many, it's
| quite likely he softened over time.]
| mabbo wrote:
| > Donations can be made in Kevin's memory to The National
| Pancreas Foundation https://pancreasfoundation.org/ or The Equal
| Justice Initiative https://eji.org/
|
| > These are two causes of great importance to Kimberley and
| Kevin; both organizations put the majority of donated funds to
| work in the communities they serve.
|
| If Kevin inspired you, perhaps a donation in his name would be a
| nice gesture.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| The Cyberthief and the Samurai (along with a few other books like
| Snow Crash, Hackers, the Cuckoos egg etc.) were books that made a
| big impact on me earlier in my life. It wasn't as much about
| facts as much as about building a virtual map of the digital
| world in my head. This was before I had actual access to a fast
| internet connection.
|
| I had a printout of the MIT guide to lock picking and used to try
| out stuff with some hand crafted "tools". I'd forgotten about
| Mitnick and later (probably via. Slashdot) came across his site
| again and saw this https://www.mitnicksecurity.com/kevin-
| mitnicks-famous-lockpi... which suddenly brought back the same
| image I had formed about him. Playful to the extent of not
| caring, irreverent, and curious.
|
| Rest in Peace.
| megraf wrote:
| I snuck into a banking conference in Miami Florida to meet Kevin.
| I forged my badge, using the previous years design as
| inspiration. I got in, and met him, and gave him my badge.
|
| He said "that's really cool" and signed a copy of Ghost in the
| Wires for me.
|
| Really incredible guy. Rest in peace my friend.
| chrisrickard wrote:
| When I wad 13 I printed out "FREE KEVIN" stickers and stuck them
| all over the locker room of my school. ...kind of a weird thing
| to do in Australia back then.
| mocmoc wrote:
| Hero
| vubis wrote:
| [flagged]
| manca wrote:
| I will always remember when the "Takedown" movie came out. I
| loved the original "Hackers" and couldn't wait for "Hackers 2"
| which was Takedown.
|
| I had learned about Mitnick few years prior to the movie and was
| fascinated by his life story and what he had done up to that
| point (including his "takedown" by the FBI). It's an
| understatement to say that his work, character and some sort of
| positive social manipulation put a great influence on my
| upbringing and later my professional career. Back then I enjoyed
| playing pranks with my friends and "hacking" them with all sorts
| of trojans and ejecting their CD roms :)
|
| I am very sad to hear that he's gone. RIP Legend.
| gt565k wrote:
| May he rest in peace.
|
| I first heard of Kevin Mitnick in the early 2000's when I was
| watching "The Broken" with Kevin Rose and he interviewed Mitnick
| in one of the episodes.
|
| I was 14-15 years old at the time! Wow!
|
| Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcWByfwkf4k
| mottiden wrote:
| Rest In Peace Kevin. You were the reason why I started
| programming. I loved reading your books when I was younger.
| hedgehog wrote:
| It's funny, though I didn't really know him I did have two chance
| interactions 15 or so years back that are in a way core lessons
| for me about business.
|
| Back when he started doing consulting I ended up spending some
| hours on the phone with him over a week or so as an
| evenings/weekends side project (I had a more than full time job
| too). He seemed like a nice enough dude, basically a middle aged
| guy trying to put his life back together, and he was
| understandably not up to speed on web app security due to his
| recent stint in prison. I don't think that business ever panned
| out but he eventually pivoted and built a multi-billion dollar
| company around the concept he was known for (social engineering).
|
| The second is embedded in his somewhat famous lock pick business
| card. It turns out those cards are a direct copy of a friend's
| card, conceived by me, designed by a second friend, and inspired
| by a third friend who'd discovered the shop that did etched steel
| cards. Kevin's card traded in usability by shortening the tools
| to make more space for contact information. Regardless, his
| ability to capture the spotlight helped ensure his version is by
| far the best known.
|
| RIP.
| pvaldes wrote:
| Gone too young.
|
| Pancreatic cancer is terrible. Hacking the disease with RNA would
| be the better homage possible to Mitnick. Lets pray for the
| vaccine coming soon.
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/mrna-va...
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| This is triggering real crying and emotional breakdown. Mitnick
| was a friend I never had. An older brother or cool guy that
| sparked inspiration. Such a strange feeling to be so sad about a
| person I never met. Like losing a friend. He had such an
| influence on my life. Hits close to home.
|
| Thanks Kevin. RIP.
| PettingRabbits wrote:
| Pancreatic cancer really sucks. A friend of mine passed away from
| it a few months ago at the ripe old age of 25. She was first
| diagnosed with it at 20, beat it, and then nearly three years
| later it came back at stage 4. Like Kevin she also underwent a
| few different experimental treatments, the first of which worked
| remarkably well. (Until it didn't, which is typical of these
| treatments) A cure or effective treatment feels so close, and I'm
| sure if one comes soon I'll be having a bittersweet celebration.
|
| I never did get to meet Kevin, but it's clear that I missed out
| on an amazing person. RIP Mr Mitnick.
| grayhatter wrote:
| Mitnick's legend (and his books) are definitely a big part of why
| I have a job I love.
|
| I was tempted to send a box of donuts as a gift... but instead I
| think I'll send the two dozen as a donation to the EJI instead.
|
| https://eji.org/
| ttrrooppeerr wrote:
| A mentor and a beacon for many of us. Rest in peace.
| yousifa wrote:
| RIP legend. Not sure that I would be where I am today without
| Kevin being an inspiration and hero to me growing up.
| serf wrote:
| RIP. I still have my FREE KEVIN sticker on an old freezer.
|
| One of my fond memories with my now-dead mother was going to see
| him during a prison transfer in Los Angeles and yelling outside
| the place until he waved to us and the rest of the crowd through
| a window.
| mindcrime wrote:
| I'm still rocking one on my laptop to this very day.
|
| https://fogbeam.com/free-kevin.jpg
| rajc111 wrote:
| RIP
| [deleted]
| mindcrime wrote:
| Oh man, oh man. This is heart-breaking. Even though I never met
| Kevin IRL, he was always something of a.. well, maybe not a "role
| model" exactly, but certainly an inspiring character in many
| regards. Some of my earliest forays into the world of phone
| phreaking and related activities were inspired by the stories I
| read about Mitnick and his crew out in LA, in Markoff and
| Haffner's book _Cyberpunk_. For a while me and some of the guys I
| ran with would use the word "Kevin" as a sort of code-word for
| this stuff to avoid telling our parents any more than necessary
| about what we were doing
|
| "Where are you going to night boys?"
|
| "Oh, we're going to hang out with Kevin."
|
| (this meant a night of trashing telco dumpsters, fucking around
| with payphones, and various other dubious activities)
|
| "Oh, OK. Well, be careful."
|
| That sort of thing.
|
| Wow. Never saw this coming. I didn't even know he'd been ill.
|
| Anyway... RIP, Mr. Mitnick. May there be clueless operators to
| social engineer, on "the other side".
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Everything Markoff ever wrote was untrue.
|
| https://youtu.be/3zgLHEqIlJg?t=528
| mindcrime wrote:
| Yep. I'm familiar with the issues around the veracity of that
| book. That isn't really the point. Back in 1995 that was
| pretty much all we had to go on, and Mitnick still became a
| hero to a bunch of us.
|
| In the subsequent years I've read all of Kevin's books, as
| well as pretty much all the other books written about his
| life, and watched the various movies and documentaries that
| dealt with his story. It seems like Markoff was kind of a
| dick and frankly contributed to some of Kevin's problems.
| Sad. :-(
| throwaway67743 wrote:
| Is there an obit that isn't on a dumb site that blocks entire
| countries for no reason?
| programmarchy wrote:
| Serious question: why revere Mitnick, but not someone like SBF?
| Mitnick is admired for his technical skill and social engineering
| prowess, but the same argument could be made that SBF is also
| exceptional in this regard on an even larger scale. Both are
| (alleged) criminals. Genuinely curious what makes Mitnick morally
| good in the eyes of HN. Was it his redemption arc as a "white
| hat"?
| SpaghettiCthulu wrote:
| Real people lost significant amounts of money thanks to SBF. I
| know of no comparable case involving Mitnick.
| sgammon wrote:
| it is well documented that he did not steal from anyone (i
| believe this was mentioned at his federal trial, by a
| witness)
| chasontherobot wrote:
| SBF wasn't anything new, just the latest in a long line of
| scammers and frauds. Mitnick, for all of his faults, inspired a
| generation of people to poke and prod at technology and opened
| their eyes to the ways in which it could be used (and abused).
| Also, I don't think many people consider him "morally good".
| Definitely a "morally gray" character more than anything.
| zer8k wrote:
| The term "hacker" describes someone skilled at tricking systems
| into doing what they can't. Mitnick was not only one of the
| first popular hackers he also had many famous exploits. His
| arrest was a major rallying cry for the hacker community at
| large (now known as the overly corporate "infosec community").
| There's no redemption arc. You do not need to do what society
| considers "good" to be considered righteous.
|
| There's no such thing as objective moral and ethical good. To
| me, Mitnick is a hero deserving of the highest praise. He
| inspired myself and many others to get started in this world.
| It may be difficult to understand if you didn't come into
| computers in the late 80s/90s.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| > There's no such thing as objective moral and ethical good.
|
| I'm curious how your framework handles some particularly
| unpleasant examples.
|
| E.g., is there nothing universally wrong with what Hitler /
| Mengele did to Jews? Or how about raping, torturing, and then
| killing toddlers?
|
| I have trouble accepting an ethics in which there's no real
| basis for telling such people that what they're doing is
| genuinely wrong.
|
| (I apologize if these examples seem like straw-men. It's
| possible I don't understand your original point.)
| zer8k wrote:
| Just because a large number of people agree something is
| bad does not make it objective.
|
| You can of course pick examples 99% of people agree with.
| Hitler is bad, killing kids is wrong, beating your wife is
| bad, Mao killed millions, stalin killed millions, etc. This
| still doesn't make these _objective_. Just agreed upon. An
| _objective_ system is one in which there is no other
| possible answer. I 'm am sure we can find at least one
| person for each example of these whose moral and ethical
| system is consistent with the tyrant's behavior. It runs
| afoul of society at large and generally how we expect
| people to behave. But it is still subjective. Whether it
| deserves _respect_ is what I think you are conflating
| _objectivity_ with.
|
| Take a less inflammatory (but still inflammatory) example:
| dropping the nuke on Japan. Was that evil? On one hand it's
| true it killed hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.
| However, on the other hand it stopped an unnecessary blood
| bath that could've killed millions more. You would be
| neither right, nor wrong, if your moral and ethical system
| agreed or disagreed with this behavior. For you and me we
| have the upside of hindsight to make a final call.
|
| All right and wrong is dictated by a moral and ethical
| system. What I consider wrong is my _subjective_ view of
| morality and ethics. Just because society often agrees with
| me because I am a polite member of society does not
| suddenly make it _objective_. Society has a commonly agreed
| upon moral and ethical system but it does not make it right
| for every single case. If you really wanted to corner me
| you 'd have brought up abortion. But, in fact, abortion is
| the perfect example of a _subjective_ interpretation of
| morality and ethics. What a religious person might refer to
| as _the laws of man_. In the case of Kevin Mitnick, I do
| not see him as a criminal. I see him as a victim of a
| system that failed to understand computers. You may
| disagree. Your opinion is as valid as mine. But to drive
| home we 've talked about, the hacker community at large has
| a moral and ethical framework consistent with Mitnick's
| behavior. That makes you the odd man out.
| clipsy wrote:
| > Mao killed millions, stalin killed millions, etc. This
| still doesn't make these objective.
|
| Apologies for the pedantry, but these two are objective;
| calling them wrong/bad would be subjective.
|
| > Society has a commonly agreed upon moral and ethical
| system
|
| We do?!
| zer8k wrote:
| > We do?!
|
| Yes, generally it's the legal system we live under. When
| you boil it down laws are technically just an
| encapsulation of the larger view society takes on issues
| of morality.
|
| Now, you may not agree with every law. I don't. But I
| think most people would agree stealing, killing, etc are
| bad. This is sort of what I was getting at with a
| commonly agreed upon moral and ethical framework. People
| expect you not to kill from, or steal from them, or
| whatever else. If someone killed your
| son/daughter/wife/husband/etc your framework might
| justify seeking revenge. You'd run afoul of societies
| agreed upon framework but consistent in your own. Does
| that make you evil? Not necessarily. Perhaps society
| would think you are though. It's interesting when you
| think about things that way. How far afoul of the agreed
| upon framework can you run before you end up having more
| people hate you than love you.
| clipsy wrote:
| Thanks for the response, it is more than my facetious
| remark deserved! I don't particularly disagree with you,
| I was mostly observing (pedantically once again) that
| "commonly" is a bit of a stretch there; I think it would
| perhaps be more accurate to say that a society has a sort
| of skeleton or high-level overview of a moral & ethical
| system that is broadly agreed upon.
| programmarchy wrote:
| On one hand you assert there's no such thing as moral good,
| yet you describe him as righteous? That word is a superlative
| for "good" steeped in religious tones!
|
| Anyway, I suppose you could make the case that Mitnick was
| taking on "the Man" which is more utilitarian, but that's a
| bit anemic imo.
| muzani wrote:
| Mitnick wasn't malicious, more curious. He tried things, some
| of which shouldn't be tried, because it was illegal.
|
| He also educated the entire industry on how it works. Most
| people today show off that they're a security consultant but
| they haven't really had any experience breaking into things,
| and a lot of the advice is impractical. Like everyone knows
| that MD5 is insecure, but who's going to actually use it as an
| attack vector? Mitnick does the attack and then documents it.
| Some people claim he made stuff up, but even having the kind of
| imagination to make up these scenarios puts him above many
| security experts.
| mgbmtl wrote:
| Mitnick was not just skilled, he was creative, pushed things
| too far, and the internet rallied around him nonetheless. He
| went after corporations that people didn't like, even if he did
| it for personal gain.
|
| SBF seems like an average white collar criminal next to
| Mitnick. He wanted to become those big corporations with their
| names on stadiums.
| programmarchy wrote:
| Yeah, this makes sense. Wasn't super familiar with the target
| of Mitnick's hacks but looks like mostly monopolies like Pac
| Bell and government. SBF was also "hacking" SV investors and
| politicians, but probably inflicted more collateral damage on
| the little guy.
| ldargin wrote:
| Mitnick didn't steal anything except source code. He didn't do
| anything that was truly reprehensible. I feel it's premature to
| comment on SBF. He hasn't even been tried yet.
| [deleted]
| rglover wrote:
| Aw this is a bummer. RIP. I'll never forget reading The Art of
| Deception in high school.
| codetrotter wrote:
| RIP. Same here, I read the whole book on a Sony Ericsson W810i
| Walkman cell phone in high school. The phone I read it on had a
| 176x220 pixels tiny little screen. Book was captivating.
| ironfootnz wrote:
| RIP my friend.
| blindriver wrote:
| Wow, this is seriously upsetting. The fact that so many people
| are dying of pancreatic cancer is very, very scary to me, and
| it's so many young people at this point.
| nicetryguy wrote:
| It's one of the few that's still difficult to detect, and by
| the time you show symptoms you are basically stage 4... it's
| treatable if you catch it early, but therein lies the problem;
| My grandfather passed away from it.
| blindriver wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that, someone I knew closely died of
| pancreatic cancer and died 6 weeks after diagnosis which is
| why it scares me so much. Did your grandfather smoke, or
| drink a lot of alcohol? Or drink a lot of tea or coffee?
| nicetryguy wrote:
| Yeah he smoked a tobacco pipe, as grandpas do, but didn't
| drink alot was in relatively great physical health for his
| age before that. He was 70. This was in 2000.
|
| He lived about a year after his diagnosis, which occurred
| when he was jaundice. His health / quality of life was ok
| after, some weeks were good, some were bad, but yeah it was
| stage 4 when they caught it, and there is / was only so
| much you can do, especially 23 years ago.
|
| Fun Fact: He worked on the Univac! Spent his career with
| Unisys afterward.
| geocrasher wrote:
| My first thought, genuinely, was 'This is zero cool'
|
| An icon for many of us here. I feel worse for his mate and unborn
| child. Losing a mate is very, very, hard. Going through that
| myself...
| strictnein wrote:
| > Going through that myself...
|
| Sorry to hear that
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| I was not aware he was ill. Always sad to hear people that are
| taken by cancer.
|
| I didn't know Kevin, but am friends with Tsutomu Shimomura who
| worked with authorities to get him arrested. Tsutomu worked with
| me a bit when I was at Sun trying to get a cryptographically
| secure subsystem into the base system specification. It was fun
| to listen to his side of this story.
|
| The 80's was a really weird time for computer enthusiasts, and it
| was the period of time when what was then considered the "hacker"
| community schismed into what today we might call "white hat" vs
| "black hat" hackers.
|
| As a person who considered themselves to be part of that
| community I was personally offended by how the story of Kevin
| painted everyone who thought of themselves as a "hacker" as a
| criminal. It made for good story telling to make these folks
| "pirate" or perhaps more accurately "privateer" types in their
| swashbuckling ways of sticking it to the man. People would say,
| "Exposing security holes is like solving puzzles (which is fun)
| and important because if I don't do it, well somebody 'bad'
| will." And while I'm here, why not make it hurt for them a little
| bit to incentivize them to fix this problem quickly!"
|
| I didn't disagree with the importance of pointing out security
| problems, but the flamboyant way it was done scared the crap out
| of people who were both clueless and in a position to do stupid
| things. As a result we got the CFAA and the DMCA which are both
| some of the most ridiculous pieces of legislation after the so
| called "patriot" act.
|
| The damage that did to curious people growing up lost the US a
| significant fraction of their upcoming "innovation" talent. While
| not diminishing the folks who leaned in to the illegality of it.
| mcv wrote:
| > I was not aware he was ill. Always sad to hear people that
| are taken by cancer.
|
| It was pancreatic cancer, which is the deadliest cancer. It
| kills very quickly and as far as I know, it's impossible to
| cure.
|
| It killed my mom: 3 months between diagnosis and death. She
| didn't want treatment because it couldn't save her; it would
| only postpone the inevitable and she didn't want to spend the
| rest of her days in hospitals.
| _whiteCaps_ wrote:
| My mom's situation was almost exactly the same. Our family
| has a history of cancer and it turned out she had the harmful
| BRCA2 variant.
|
| Were you offered any kind of genetic testing?
|
| https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-
| prevention/geneti...
| vmurthy wrote:
| :-(. Always sad to hear such news. Stay strong mate!
| kjs3 wrote:
| There is some reason to hope, tho regrettably too late for
| your family:
|
| https://www.mskcc.org/news/can-mrna-vaccines-fight-
| pancreati...
|
| https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-
| diseas...
| jjkaczor wrote:
| It took my dad last year, diagnosis in April, gone by mid-
| June. It was so aggressive he chose "medical assistance in
| death" (MAID), because he didn't want to be in hospitals all-
| the-time. He had half-completed the process, then had a
| stroke on June 4th, where he was then admitted to hospital.
| The stroke cause aphasia, so he couldn't communicate very
| well (speech was very disjointed, but he could understand
| everyone) - they brough in a speech pathologist, after a
| couple weeks they we able to confirm that he still wanted
| 'MAID', so - I had to make the decision as to when. (And - I
| agreed, spending time in hospitals, fighting the inevitable
| was antithetic to his whole personality)
|
| Cleared by 2nd round of medical professionals to make the
| MAID decision on a Wednesday, so - we scheduled for Friday -
| he passed away naturally Thursday morning.
| HannibalLecter wrote:
| [dead]
| saary wrote:
| Thank you for sharing, sorry for your loss.
| nathancahill wrote:
| Sorry for your loss.
| puzzlingcaptcha wrote:
| Note that it really depends on the type of the pancreatic
| cancer. While pancreatic adenocarcinomas are some of the
| worst cancers out there (overall 5y survival of 8%), others
| like pancreatic neuroendocrine tumours have a fairly good
| prognosis. Famously, Steve Jobs sought alternative medicine
| solutions to the latter, which was probably misguided.
| j0hnyl wrote:
| I'm not sure it's the alternative treatments that did him
| in... it was the AIDS that he kept a secret and was
| subsequently revealed by wikileaks.
| loup-vaillant wrote:
| Do you have a credible link? The quick search I did
| suggests the evidence was unreliable and likely forged.
| j0hnyl wrote:
| I'm only aware that documents were circulating saying
| that, but now that I'm searching around, I think the best
| details are here:
|
| https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs_purported_HIV_medic
| al_...
|
| Conclusion is that the documents shouldn't be taken at
| face value... so maybe not?
|
| However, if he was HIV+ I can totally see why it would be
| covered up.
|
| I guess it's a big question mark, but it's not
| unbelievable.
| asveikau wrote:
| There are a lot of conspiracy theories about AIDS, and in
| the case like the death of Steve Jobs I guess this sort
| of rumor is bolstered by the fact that a lot of people
| hid their diagnosis due to stigma. Jobs was famously very
| focused on image. But I think most of that stigma was
| gone by 2010.
| samstave wrote:
| I come from a long line of clinical/medical folks in my
| family - and me on the tech side of medicine...
|
| That said the following is me talking out my ass, but I
| have followed a very few number of pancreatic cases - jobs
| being one... and there is one anecdotal that I would hope
| people closer to such cases can chime into ; how much wine
| did these people drink (jobs was a prolific wine drinker)
|
| Im wondering if sulfates from wine are a major player.
|
| https://www.distractify.com/p/patrick-swayze-alcoholic
| brandon272 wrote:
| Anything that I have read about Jobs was that he rarely
| drank alcohol.
| samstave wrote:
| I withdraw my statmenet because all data conflicts and I
| have no idea.
| kjs3 wrote:
| Jobs famously _didn 't_ drink much alcohol; he was way
| more into exotic fruit juices and such. Where did you get
| the idea he did? And what's with the oddly narrow "must
| be the sulfates, in wine specifically". Why not tannins?
| Polyphenols? Organic acids? We already know alcohol
| contributes to a variety of cancers...what compelling
| evidence is there that sulfate need be involved?
| samstave wrote:
| His Sommelier. I cant go into it. (and still this is not
| first hand from me - just what I heard... so I accept
| being completely wrong)
|
| And I didnt meant to narrow - it was the more famous of
| what you states, and thank you.
|
| My money is on tannins, but that is just me...
| mcv wrote:
| Tannins? Aren't those also in tea? Could you please stop
| saying such scary things?
| 2devnull wrote:
| If they were a major player it wouldn't be so subtle, it
| would be an industry wide problem. Alcohol causes
| pancreatic cancer for sure, but sulfites specifically?
| I'd beed a lot of evidence to believe that.
| samstave wrote:
| Sure, but that shouldnt preclude looking into it...
|
| As you stated "*I need a lot of evidence*" - which is
| exactly what I am asking for. "Moar evidance"
|
| And sulfates may not be the right metric...
|
| So if we can fully identify dietary commonalities of
| pancreatic cancer patients, then we can get a little
| farther down this path to understanding...
|
| What would be the most amazing use of "AI" would be to
| have a biological model of a pure human body (as far as
| nutrients and blah blah are concerned) - then cycle
| through feeding that biology various substances and
| seeing how it propogates through the system)
| nemo44x wrote:
| A friend of mine who is a surgeon originally was learning to
| become a pancreatic cancer surgeon. She changed to GI because
| the mortality rate was just so high and so fast that it was
| extremely heartbreaking and depressing.
| glimshe wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear about your mom. It's not impossible to
| cure, but it's very uncommon. I think that if it is caught
| early, only 10% of people eventually become disease-free.
| joshmanders wrote:
| A friend of mine survived it, I wouldn't wish pancreatic
| cancer on even my enemies. That stuff is tough. I do the
| Purple Stride with her every year to celebrate her battle.
|
| RIP Kevin, hearing your stories and the movie Hackers was a
| huge inspiration in me getting into what we do.
| msarrel wrote:
| Having been around for the long haul and meet Kevin a few
| times, I'm sad to hear of his passing. Yet, his white hat
| influence will live on.
|
| I completely agree. There was a time when hacker did not mean
| criminal. That was the time during which Kevin was active. It
| was also the time during which I was active, not that that
| matters right now. But there was a rapid shift from computers
| being something you could explore to if you're exploring that
| then you are a bad person. And I also agree that trying to
| scare policy makers isn't necessarily going to work because
| they don't understand what they're scared of. Curiosity is no
| longer rewarded in general in our society.
|
| Those of you who don't think what Kevin did was important,
| there seem to be a lot of people discussing him, aren't there?
| larrywright wrote:
| I really enjoyed the book Takedown, about Shimomura's pursuit
| of Mitnick - I must have read it three or four times. I always
| wondered what happened to Shimomura, since he just seemed to
| drop out of sight after that book came out.
| 0ct4via wrote:
| Alas the book (and the movie) were trash, rather like
| Shimomura. Anyone who knew Kevin, knew that Takedown was
| egotistical BS.
|
| If you really want to know about "the pursuit of Mitnick,"
| watch Freedom Downtime.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Downtime
|
| https://archive.org/details/FreedomDowntime-
| TheStoryOfKevinM...
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| He started at company called Neofocal which had some really
| cool LED products. He also has had some health issues of his
| own to deal with. I last talked with him about 5 years ago in
| 2018.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| It's mired in lawsuits due to him being a jerk, so nobody's
| ever using any of those really cool LED products.
|
| It's not that he dropped out of sight, it's that nobody
| wanted to work with him after reading his book.
| sshd wrote:
| NSA has entered the chat
| bozhark wrote:
| Blockchain
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Shimomura was an egotistical asshole at the time. However, he
| was younger then and can hopefully acknowledge he was still
| learning about himself and wasn't all-wise yet.
|
| I hope Shimomura can realize that Mitnick made him a better
| version of himself, both personally and professionally.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| I've known him since the time of the events in his book,
| and can confirm. He was (and still is) an insufferable
| jerk. Not only does he self aggrandize himself in his book
| and web site, he pointlessly denigrates and takes down and
| insults the intelligence of his own colleagues in order to
| make himself look better (but the net effect was the
| opposite that he intended). And his book was a work of
| fiction. Nobody in their right mind would still want to
| work with him, especially after what happened with his LED
| company. I know somebody who made the mistake of working
| with him, and the costly lawsuits and recriminations
| between them have been dragging on for years, but Tsutomu's
| clearly the one who was at fault.
| larrywright wrote:
| His ego came through a bit in the book, but honestly that's
| a fairly common trait for young guys. I am also quite aware
| that the book only presents one side of the story and that
| Mitnick had quite a different perspective. I'm sure the
| truth lies somewhere in the middle. My enjoyment of the
| book was much more about the process they used to track him
| down, and the detailed description of them building tools
| to aid in the process, rather than the people involved.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| "A bit"? You think so? At the time, Tsutomu was enough of
| an adult to know not to be such an asshole, but that
| didn't stop him one bit.
|
| Fuck the "boys will be boys" defense, and the people who
| still try to defend reprehensible behavior (and
| ultimately their own) by trotting out that old sexist
| canard.
| larrywright wrote:
| I'm not defending the behavior, just saying that it
| didn't detract from the parts of the book that I enjoyed.
|
| I did find the inclusion of so many details of his
| romantic life a bit odd. It's not that they were graphic
| or anything, there was just a lot of it and it didn't
| have anything to do with the subject of the book.
| retrocryptid wrote:
| Meh. It 'ain't braggin' if it's true. Worked with Tsutomo
| on some projects. Dude has an extremely keen analytical
| mind. Mitnick on the other hand had an excellent grasp of
| human intellectual frailty. I was always surprised people
| expected Tsutomo to be some amazingly empathetic mensch and
| Mitnick to be some uber mentat wizzard.
|
| Each was quite good within their speciality, and kinda
| crappy in the other's. And that's totally okay.
| withinboredom wrote:
| Pro-tip: CFAA only applies if you cross state lines between you
| and the server. Otherwise, state laws applies and there
| are/were some states that never passed any 'anti-hacking' laws.
|
| Source: experience.
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| Pro-er tip: if you are in the US and access a computer over
| _any_ kind of service provider network (Internet, leased
| line, etc.) you should operate on the assumption your traffic
| is crossing state lines and the CFAA applies to your
| activities.
|
| Tools like traceroute cannot show you where your traffic is
| physically being sent because: there may be no geographic
| information in the router reverse DNS records, that
| information might not be accurate if it is present, and layer
| 3 tools cannot show you the underlying layer 1/2 path (which
| might be wildly different than the layer 3 hops would
| suggest.)
| kjs3 wrote:
| Spot on. More simply, no matter the technical
| underpinnings, the case will be made in court that because
| your service provider (and probably the carriers it's
| connected to) have infrastructure across state lines _at
| all_ , your traffic could have crossed state lines, and the
| court will be asked to assume it did. And they probably
| will.
| EMCymatics wrote:
| How can the DNS records not be accurate?
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| You can make a reverse DNS record (or any DNS record, for
| that matter,) say anything at all. There isn't a National
| Committee for the Verification of DNS Updates checking
| this stuff out and demanding in-person inspections and
| notarized affidavits swearing that 100% of all
| information in the DNS is accurate and means whatever the
| end-user might _infer_ it to mean.
|
| For instance, part of the tracroute from my house to
| Google looks like this:
|
| 6 be-33112-cs01.doraville.ga.ibone.comcast.net
| (96.110.43.81) 19.602 ms
|
| 7 be-33142-cs04.doraville.ga.ibone.comcast.net
| (96.110.43.93) 22.738 ms
|
| 8 be-302-cr13.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net
| (96.110.39.49) 23.202 ms
|
| You can see these hostnames are obviously meant to encode
| some geographic data -- strictly for the convenience of
| the provider, it doesn't mean anything else -- but you,
| as the user, cannot tell from these records that these
| routers are actually where you think they are, based on
| the host names.
|
| Another issue is the server you're communicating with
| might take a completely different path to get back to
| you, and you'd have no real way of knowing that.
| kjs3 wrote:
| You're new here, aren't you?
| [deleted]
| amoss wrote:
| rDNS information is provided by the owner of the IP
| address, not the owner of the domain. More generally
| there are spoofing and poisoning attacks against DNS.
| ja27 wrote:
| Absolutely not. Any computer connected to the internet, even
| behind a firewall / NAT / etc. is considered to be involved
| in interstate or foreign commerce and thus a "protected
| computer" subject to 18 USC 1030. It's not your actions that
| make it a protected computer. 1030(e)(2)
| withinboredom wrote:
| Yeah. I'm not a lawyer, I just know what the FBI told me
| when they picked me up. I was turned over to the regular
| police and then let go.
|
| I was just a teen at the time, things could have changed.
| jonahx wrote:
| > but the flamboyant way it was done scared the crap out of
| people who were both clueless and in a position to do stupid
| things. As a result we got the CFAA and the DMCA which are both
| some of the most ridiculous pieces of legislation after the so
| called "patriot" act.
|
| > The damage that did to curious people growing up lost the US
| a significant fraction of their upcoming "innovation" talent.
|
| The causal leap from flamboyant hackers to the DMCA/CFAA, and
| then to damaging the US's innovation talent feels...
| speculative.
| AnthonyMouse wrote:
| > The causal leap from flamboyant hackers to the DMCA/CFAA
|
| That isn't much of a leap. The penalties aren't rooted in the
| actual damages, because for most of this kind of curiosity-
| based intrusion, there isn't any _real_ damage and the damage
| imputed to them is the cost of cleaning up after the
| vulnerability, which the "victim" ought to have paid
| regardless. Getting trolled by some kid isn't what costs you
| money, implementing a vulnerability that allows some kid to
| troll you is.
|
| The reason the penalties are high is because of that
| embarrassment. Some major institution that ought to have done
| better gets pwned by some pranksters and they lose face. So
| they want to throw the book at the guy to deter anyone else,
| not from maliciously causing them undue harm, but from making
| a fool of them in public.
|
| But blaming the youth for bragging about it is blaming the
| victim. The perpetrators are the institutions that abuse the
| law, and the process of creating the law, to severely punish
| not evildoers but the child who points out that the emperor
| has no clothes.
|
| > and then to damaging the US's innovation talent
|
| These are the laws they use to charge the likes of Aaron
| Swartz, are they not?
| CPLX wrote:
| It'll make more sense when you realize that promoting the
| competence of American corporations is, in and of itself,
| an explicit policy goal of the American government.
| rjbwork wrote:
| If they wanted to promote competence then the damages
| would be applied to the corporation for implementing the
| vulnerability, not on the attacker for exposing it. This
| way, corporations are given a shield for being
| incompetent and can place the blame and damages upon an
| individual that brings them to light.
| CPLX wrote:
| "Promoting the competence of" does not require actual
| competence. Exposing incompetence undermines that
| promotion.
|
| The government is a lot more concerned with the image,
| and its effect on trade, over the substance.
| loup-vaillant wrote:
| Oh, if you want to actually raise competence, sure. But
| they meant projecting the _image_ of competence.
| specialist wrote:
| Moral panics incite all sorts of stupid policy making.
| EMCymatics wrote:
| Citing moral panic is very rarely the true reason for doing
| something.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| > The damage that did to curious people growing up lost the US
| a significant fraction of their upcoming "innovation" talent.
| While not diminishing the folks who leaned in to the illegality
| of it.
|
| It is very difficult to see how that is the case when pretty
| much every functioning nation has substantially similar laws.
| nekoashide wrote:
| Nobody really cared in the scene about the DMCA until the FBI
| started taking people offline. Even then? It stopped nobody,
| people just got more security aware.
| detourdog wrote:
| The hacks had to be flamboyant. If the hacks weren't
| embarrassing the "adults" in suits would deny the hairy person
| in a t-shirt knew what they were talking about.
| loup-vaillant wrote:
| This even happens when there is not nearly as much status
| difference between the two.
|
| I was once tasked to work with TPM 2.0 provisioning in an
| embedded position. They specifically chose me and pulled me
| from another team because of my skills in cryptography (I
| wrote Monocypher). Fast forward a couple weeks, I notice that
| the way the provisioning was specified, it would allow us to
| provision a fake TPM without noticing. My team lead didn't
| believe me.
|
| Sometimes later we had an _actual_ provisioning procedure in
| place, and what do you know, it worked to completion even
| with a fake (software) TPM and a _real_ certificate from the
| manufacturer. Because, well... we just didn't compare the
| relevant public keys. My team lead was _still_ sceptical.
|
| I had to mention the issue in a meeting with some higher-ups
| and the security guy to be allowed to fix the problem. I
| believe this goes a bit deeper than a status game. I think
| it's downright _magical thinking_ : this hope that ignoring
| problems (especially vague threats like security
| vulnerabilities), could make the problem actually disappear.
| detourdog wrote:
| Definitely some of that. but in Kevin's day it was most
| likely a team of IBM blue suits, white shirts, and red ties
| vs. Kevin in whatever he found to wear.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Markoff and Shimomura received $750,000 for their book rights
| and $650,000 for the film rights. The most sensational parts in
| the book or the movie had absolutely nothing to do with the
| truth.
|
| Sharknado is closer to reality than Track Down. The cringest
| part is Tsutomu's fictional gf.
| dijit wrote:
| Take Down (the movie) was fantastic fiction, and even showed
| Mitnick as convicted before he even was.
|
| However my cringiest take away from the book was Simomura's
| detailing of what he was eating which seemed to have so many
| mentions that at times I thought it was a healthy eating
| dialogue.
| 0ct4via wrote:
| Anyone who knew Kevin, knew that Takedown was complete BS -
| "fiction" or not.
|
| You'd be better off watching Freedom Downtime.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Downtime
|
| https://archive.org/details/FreedomDowntime-
| TheStoryOfKevinM...
| trashcanman wrote:
| Wow didn't see that coming. I met him at a HOPE conference with
| Steve Wozniak. Followed him for years from hacker zine texts
| distributed on CDs back in the day. Wow that's really sad what a
| fun guy he was. His social engineering book was pretty
| interesting. That OKI phone story was so fascinating I bought a
| couple to see if I could do it too, although by then 900MHz was
| phased out. This guy made a difference in my life how very
| strange
| myself248 wrote:
| MENU SND END RCL STO CLR
| trashcanman wrote:
| Lol! and the Sun story was hysterical. Mailing update
| floppies to a target and letting them install the malware for
| you. That's just priceless comedy
| m4jor wrote:
| Is this real?
| JuanTono wrote:
| I'm asking the same, Wikipedia page is not updated and based on
| the note he died on Sunday...
| dredmorbius wrote:
| As I write this, there's a pending edit, accepted for review,
| of Mitnick's death.
|
| That seems to have been reverted pending a reliable source:
|
| Edit: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Mitni
| ck&old...>
|
| Revert: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Mit
| nick&old...>
|
| Wikipedians typically resolve such issues pretty quickly.
| Spliterator wrote:
| I'm wondering the same thing. Wikipedia page isn't updated, I
| don't see any updates on https://www.mitnicksecurity.com/ or
| https://www.knowbe4.com/, and I can't find any other news
| mentions about this.
|
| I also can't find mention of him having pancreatic cancer, but
| that's not necessarily a confirmation of anything. He certainly
| could have kept it private.
| sp332 wrote:
| KnowBe4 has confirmed. https://web.archive.org/web/2023072004
| 3020/https://www.nytim...
| m4jor wrote:
| Yeah seems like it was something he kept hush hush.
|
| Sad to hear the news :\
| ranl wrote:
| RIP. Kevin
| chmod600 wrote:
| I didn't meet him, but to me he was a symbol of the freedom in a
| newly-created world. Sad that he passed away a few decades too
| soon.
| gkoberger wrote:
| Wow. He was only 59.
|
| I've always loved his lockpicking business card:
| https://www.mitnicksecurity.com/kevin-mitnicks-famous-lockpi...
|
| While I assume this is real, part of me does feel like a
| combination of how young he is and who is is leads me to be
| slightly skeptical. Assuming it's real, hopefully he would have
| appreciated the skepticism.
| booi wrote:
| Can you still get one of these? It says send cash in the mail
| so... I'm skeptical
| thesuitonym wrote:
| As of a few years ago, KnowBe4 was sending them out (well, a
| KnowBe4 branded version) to companies that partnered with
| them.
| ivoc wrote:
| Could always ask Woz for a card ?
| sva_ wrote:
| There are similar ones on AliExpress, if you just look for
| lockpicks in CC format
| libraryatnight wrote:
| and forego the experience of mailing cash for lockpicks?
| never.
| jbaber wrote:
| I, too, was concerned it was some kind of hacker gotcha
| trick, but took the leap of faith and mailed the cash.
|
| They did ship the card to me.
| Simulacra wrote:
| He gave me his business card at CES and it's one of my most
| prized possessions. I am heartbroken.
| yreg wrote:
| For years I planned to get one by sending him the $10, but I
| never got around to do it...
| SonicSoul wrote:
| damn i missed this! do you know if its possible to still get
| one of those???
| grayhatter wrote:
| toool is an organization worthy of the support, and they sell
| a version of it.
| autoexec wrote:
| Do you have a link? I'm not seeing one at toool.nl
| ChristianGeek wrote:
| https://www.toool.us/equipment/Emergency-Pick-
| Card-p36508921...
| vitus wrote:
| https://www.toool.us/equipment/Emergency-Pick-
| Card-p36508921...
| ineedasername wrote:
| I had a similar thought, his social engineering abilities were
| very strong. If there was one person in the world willing to
| fake their own death to engineer access to something, it would
| have been him. A sad day.
| jdthedisciple wrote:
| > fake their own death to engineer access to something
|
| Care to elaborate?
| ineedasername wrote:
| what is there to elaborate, other than pointing out that he
| was good at social engineering things and finding
| behavioral or procedural loopholes to get access to
| systems?
| Wevah wrote:
| Wired story about the origin of the cards:
| https://www.wired.com/2007/06/lock-pick-busin/ (I looked it up
| because I thought they looked like some cards someone I knew
| designed, and sure enough...)
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Adrian Lamo also passed away at an early age (37),
| coincidentally enough.
| VectorLock wrote:
| I miss Adrian, looking at this picture now gives me a wistful
| feeling https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lamo-Mitnick-
| Poulsen... Hope Kevin Poulsen is doing okay tonight.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| Wasn't sure who that was, but wikipidia says:
|
| "Lamo was best known for reporting U.S. soldier Chelsea
| Manning to Army criminal investigators in 2010[7] for leaking
| hundreds of thousands of sensitive U.S. government documents
| to WikiLeaks.[8][9] Lamo died on March 14, 2018, at the age
| of 37.[10]"
|
| Kind of the wrong side in history there. But RIP, regardless.
| nyokodo wrote:
| > Kind of the wrong side in history there.
|
| Manning's leaks included vast numbers of documents related
| in no way to a legitimate whistleblowing issues, some of
| which helped spark the Arab Spring which precipitated in an
| ongoing civil war in Syria, slave markets and the beheading
| of religious minorities in Libya, and on and on all over
| the region affecting 100s of millions of people. I don't
| know about Lamo, but Manning certainly isn't on the right
| side of history and deserves to be still in jail.
| mcv wrote:
| Manning was very sloppy; that's true. But she also
| released very important information about war crimes. The
| intent was good, the execution was bad.
|
| As for the Arab Spring, you can blame it for revolutions
| in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt (some good, some bad), but I
| don't think Syria has anything to do with it. And ISIS
| was the direct result of the US invasion of Iraq.
| StanislavPetrov wrote:
| >Manning's leaks included vast numbers of documents
| related in no way to a legitimate whistleblowing issues,
| some of which helped spark the Arab Spring which
| precipitated in an ongoing civil war in Syria
|
| You're mistaking Manning's leak with the CIA.
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-
| syri...
| imperialdrive wrote:
| Storytime: He randomly came over for dinner while cruising around
| LA with a friend of a friend, aaages ago... asked if I had a
| disposable tablecloth, luckily yes. Orders like 10
| entrees/appetizers/desserts for delivery for just the 3 of us.
| Over a few hours picking at food, drinking case of beer etc., the
| entire table was covered in tech gibberish, diagrams, code etc.
| Really wish I saved that, but at the time I was like "who IS this
| guy?" and it was a disgusting mess. I do recall appreciating that
| level of openness and bonding, and have never had such an
| experience with anyone else like that in the industry since then.
| RIP
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Thanks for sharing your story. A rare anecdote about a young
| legend.
| gumballindie wrote:
| Hackers never die, they elevate. RIP.
| garfieldnate wrote:
| Having read and loved Ghost in the Wires, I felt a special bond
| with Kevin. I loved his antics combined with his fearless
| exploration of how everything around him works. I'm really sad
| reading of his death today. He was far too young. My favorite
| story from the book is how he set up a computer to tail the logs
| of cell towers in his area for phone numbers matching the FBI
| agents assigned to his case so he would be alerted when they were
| on to him. Wow, that's bold! But also, reading that I realized
| how our society had allowed ourselves to be surrounded by
| tracking machines that the government could use to find us at any
| time, and man it was beautiful to see it turned back on them.
| riow wrote:
| Relevant:
| https://twitter.com/th3j35t3r/status/1681835933052575745
| aestetix wrote:
| RIP Kevin. What a loss. That guy's court case basically defined
| the 90s for many of us.
| omgmajk wrote:
| This hit hard, free Kev!
| marinhero wrote:
| I never met him but his books and anecdotes fueled the mind of a
| young me. All I wanted was to be a hacker like him. Rest in peace
| Mr Mitnick. You'll be missed.
| frank_bb wrote:
| [dead]
| b212 wrote:
| Just woke up my wife with a loud sigh. I remember all my
| childhood friends pretending to be Zidane or Figo or Rivaldo. I
| always wanted to be Mitnick. Sucked at soccer but never stopped
| hacking. Holy f, he was so young. Out of all people I really
| hoped to meet him one day. The rockstar of my childhood. What a
| shitty day.
| wayeq wrote:
| I'm still upset I fell for Markoff and Shimomura's self serving
| narrative about Mitnick in the 90's.
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Amen.
| heystefan wrote:
| RIP to the legend.
|
| Remember when Yahoo! was defaced with a "FREE KEVIN" message?
| Good times.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| I remember when KevinMitnick.com was defaced.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| I remember when takedown.com was taken down! ;)
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Domain name checks out
| antegamisou wrote:
| He was the person I associated the word _hacker_ with, when I
| came across his name back in 2003 as a kid when I was searching
| for 'top hackers in the world'. (Google was functional back
| then...).
|
| RIP
| ecohen16 wrote:
| When Kevin first found out he had Cancer, the doctors gave him
| "weeks". But you know Kevin -- he refused to accept his fate and
| found the top doctors in the world, tried experimental procedures
| and was able to get himself all the way into remission just 11
| months later. It was incredibly inspiring, we all thought he had
| yet again beaten the system. It's tragic how the last 10 weeks
| played out, he fought all the way until the end. He's was a
| legend who paved the way for millions in the cybersecurity space.
| We will miss him.
| RektBoy wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| e40 wrote:
| Seriously, fuck pancreatic cancer. My best friend died of it in
| Oct 2020. I've had 10+ people I know (or someone that I know
| know) die of it. It's my worst fear, cancer-wise.
| [deleted]
| melling wrote:
| Looks like he died from pancreatic cancer. This cancers always
| reminds me of the Last Lecture by Randy Pausch. He was a CMU
| professor who also died from pancreatic cancer 15 years ago.
|
| https://www.cmu.edu/randyslecture/
|
| Here's an HN discussion from a few years ago.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24972377
| Grazester wrote:
| I remember that lecture very well and thought about it a few
| days ago.
| jseliger wrote:
| There is some hope for improved M&M in pancreatic cancer:
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06063-y, thanks to
| personalized mRNA vaccines and PD-L1 checkpoint inhibitors.
| xupybd wrote:
| That's good to hear. It's one of those cancers that is
| normally not noticed until it's far too late.
| obiefernandez wrote:
| Can we get a black bar?
| dredmorbius wrote:
| To reach moderators, email hn@ycombinator.com with your
| request.
|
| <https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>
|
| <https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html>
|
| (I'd just made this suggestion via email on seeing this post.)
| gruturo wrote:
| Indeed. Given the site's name is Hacker News, it would be so
| fitting.
| technick wrote:
| Kevin is partially the reason I decided to work in information
| security. I remember reading his book, art of deception, and it
| gave a name to the skill I had practiced most of the childhood,
| social engineering. Later on in life I got to meet him and spent
| the first at least 2 hours of time in shock n awe. Afterwards, he
| was great to talk with and offered me his number if I ever needed
| another set of ears. Sadly I haven't talked with him since the
| pandemic, but he will forever be remembered.
|
| Hopefully our paths will cross again.
| tankenmate wrote:
| My first memory of Mitnick was a very early web viral 8bit sound
| file (ADPCM if memory serves) that was purported to be Mitnick
| (it turned out later to not be Mitnick); "I know sendmail
| technique. ...". I can still hear it in my head today. I got my
| start into infosec working as an admin at my university; trying
| to keep on top of students being naughty was a good introduction.
| revskill wrote:
| I'm not sure if i should admire Kevin. I don't see his Github
| contributions at all.
| elif wrote:
| I can't say enough about how influential Kevin has been in every
| decade, continually staying at the head of the snake of hacking.
| I am so lucky not just for how he inspired me in my youth, but
| how he relit the fire of security paranoia in the last decade
| when I was fortunate to work for an organization he hacked (by
| contract).
|
| All software engineers are now more vulnerable with Kevin gone.
| Stay paranoid friends, now more than ever.
| faeriechangling wrote:
| Mitnick did remind myself as a preteen, even if it never seems he
| quite outgrew his own preteen antics. He was a gutsy guy who made
| life more rich and interesting in his own way. He never seemed to
| bend to the system's will long after many of us so called anti-
| authoritarians would have thrown in the towel.
|
| When I read his books I alternated between fascination,
| revulsion, admiration, and shock. Mitnick above all wasn't boring
| and I think "not boring" doesn't get enough credit in the measure
| of a man.
| metalforever wrote:
| This is a big deal to me in a man, probably the primary thing I
| look for. I don't want to have a boring life.
| RajT88 wrote:
| > Mitnick above all wasn't boring and I think "not boring"
| doesn't get enough credit in the measure of a man.
|
| My wife might agree or disagree with you, depending on the day.
| beebmam wrote:
| My ex certainly wasn't boring. But they certainly were
| physically abusive. I don't believe that automatically
| qualifies someone as deserving of credit.
| ChristianGeek wrote:
| Being physically abusive automatically cancels any credits
| you may have for any other qualities.
| fsckboy wrote:
| that's incredibly simplistic and lacking in empathy.
|
| there are people with serious psychological disorders
| such that they can't control negative impulses and
| behaviors. Some people are born or develop an empathy
| void, but they are still human beings. Yes, we need to
| make sure they don't harm others, but pissing on them
| doesn't help you or anyone else, so why do it? All men
| are created equal, judge not lest ye be judged,
| ChristianGeek.
|
| "Judgement is Mine." - Your Friend
| Aerbil313 wrote:
| The comment you're replying to was not serious. It's
| irony highlighting the nonsensicality of the replied
| sentiment.
| birdyrooster wrote:
| I think their statement stands pretty well as a serious
| one because credit is social, and paid to those who play
| by a set of rules. If you are a physically abusive
| person, society will discredit you. Case in point Will
| Smith.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| Can I ask how you are so sure of that? Fascinated by your
| confidence on this one - maybe even jealous actually...
| Curious!
| Aerbil313 wrote:
| I gave it a bit of thought, and remembered that there are
| people in the other side of the world (America) who are
| deep down in modernism (esp. feminism in this instance)
| who can really believe in that (abuse cancels all other
| good qualities). You're right, my mistake to assume
| people are as mentally healthy as they're in my country.
| bozhark wrote:
| Abuse is hella boring. We're all tired of it
| Blahah wrote:
| I don't think anyone would claim that not being boring is
| the only worthwhile measure of a person. But assuming
| nobody wants to be around a person who is causing harm
| purposefully, I'll take interesting over boring.
|
| I'm sorry about your ex, and I hope you have the support
| you need.
| renewiltord wrote:
| What in the world. That's really young to go. I really did not
| expect this guy, being just one generation away, to have died.
| kykeonaut wrote:
| I first learned about Mitnick on a network security course where
| we had to recreate the now iconic TCP spoofing attack he employed
| against Shimomura's X-Terminal [0].
|
| He was definitely a legend.
|
| [0]
| http://wiki.cas.mcmaster.ca/index.php/The_Mitnick_attack#The...
| EMCymatics wrote:
| RIP. The world lost a true talent today.
| bandyaboot wrote:
| Dang, that's a big loss. A pioneer in his own unique way.
| dekhn wrote:
| Reading how he did social engineering was a huge influence on
| me... basically, taught me how to interact with normies.
| pnw wrote:
| RIP Kevin. Too young to be gone. I only met him once but he was
| definitely one of a kind and his story inspired a lot of people.
| submeta wrote:
| Taking a detour from the current thread, this sad news about
| Kevin Mitnick serves as a poignant reminder of the impermanence
| of life, but also of the value of vigilance. It's a note to all
| of us about the importance of our health. Remember, routine
| health checkups, especially as we age, can have a significant
| impact on our wellbeing.
|
| Cancer, if detected early, does not have to be a death sentence.
| In fact, many forms of cancer are treatable and even curable if
| caught in their initial stages. Our advancements in medical
| science and technology have indeed made it possible. Yet, they
| can only do so much if we, as individuals, do not take the
| responsibility of regularly visiting our doctors.
| system2 wrote:
| When I was a child I had a poster of him in my room. It is so sad
| to see the news here. He will always be remembered.
| glonq wrote:
| Fuck cancer. I picked it up a couple months ago at the ripe age
| of 50, and spend my days getting nuked with chemo and rads now.
| photoGrant wrote:
| Miserable. Godspeed, Kevin.
| IIAOPSW wrote:
| Pardon my tasteless skepticism, but are we sure this isn't a
| social engineering trick of his yet?
| kristopolous wrote:
| I'm fine with it remaining perpetually ambiguous, like L. Ron
| Hubbard. Legends need legends.
| zirgs wrote:
| From Wikipedia: "Mitnick also intercepted and stole computer
| passwords, altered computer networks, and broke into and read
| private emails." - what a nice guy he was.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Would you want someone to pop up after you're dead to remind
| people of your misdeeds?
| zirgs wrote:
| His misdeeds are the only reason why people are talking about
| him now.
| neonate wrote:
| http://web.archive.org/web/20230720113741/https://www.dignit...
|
| https://archive.ph/13uNy
| breakingrules wrote:
| [dead]
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Rest in peace, Kevin.
| thebeardisred wrote:
| I'n guessing the hug of death will be forthcoming for this site:
| http://web.archive.org/web/20230719235437/https://www.dignit...
| deepfield67 wrote:
| This is really sad. I can't overstate the impact Kevin had on my
| life. The world is suddenly less interesting and less secure and
| my heart goes out to family and friends. Rest in peace, Kevin.
| jeremy_carroll wrote:
| To be candid; fuck this narrative. Nobody "Beats" cancer based on
| sheer will. Same scenario as those that did not "Fight hard
| enough". It's a disease. It does not care about your wants, and
| needs.
| scirpaceus wrote:
| And conversely, nobody loses to cancer. It's a draw at best,
| considering that the cancer dies with the host.
| austinjp wrote:
| Not necessarily:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Lacks
| rowanG077 wrote:
| The cancer doesn't really win or lose. Does fire lose when it
| has consumed all there is?
| Typhon wrote:
| That's not true in the sense that the cancer doesn't have
| objectives per se, therefore it doesn't have anything to lose
| in the sense that matters.
| ghosty141 wrote:
| You just misunderstand it... Beating a disease is synonymous
| with overcoming it. Thats it.
| diffeomorphism wrote:
| No, it is not. It deliberately uses a different word and that
| difference matters.
| nemo44x wrote:
| We just say these types of things because it makes us feel
| better. And that's OK. I don't think anyone accuses someone who
| dies of "not fighting hard enough".
| jacurtis wrote:
| I agree, this is a common narrative, that does a disservice for
| people that actually are consumed by the disease in the
| expected timeframe as if they weren't willing to fight it with
| sheer will.
|
| I knew a guy who was diagnosed with stomach cancer at 27 years
| old. Never had a health problem in his life, he didn't even
| know how insurance worked yet. It was late stage and he was
| given 6 months to live. He was recently engaged before that and
| they moved their wedding up to 3 months away in order to have
| it before he passed. But he was gone from us just 6 weeks after
| the original diagnosis. He fought like hell to survive. He had
| every reason to. He was diligent with everything the doctors
| told him and he was gone within weeks despite being given
| months.
|
| Cancer is horrible and it is unpredictable by its very nature.
| Cancer is literally at its definition a collection of
| unpredictable mutated cells. Thats why it is so hard for
| doctors to estimate or predict. It is unpredictable. Sometimes
| the unpredictability works in your favor and sometimes it works
| against you. But cancer cells do not listen to willpower,
| despite the common narrative. The reality is it is good and bad
| luck that often determines your fate.
|
| As a secondary anecdote. I have a friend who's mom had skin
| cancer, a small patch the size of a dime on her hip. Skin
| cancer is generally incredibly survivable and low risk (in the
| world of cancers). She had it removed as a simple procedure and
| thought she was fine. 3 months later she started having periods
| of confusion or getting lost doing simple things like going to
| the store for milk, she would end up gone for the hours and
| hours forgetting why she even left the house and ending up on
| the other side of town. It turns out it spread to her brain and
| she died just 10 days after that first episode. Cancer is
| brutal.
| lynx23 wrote:
| > He was diligent with everything the doctors told him
|
| I know I am going to be hated for this comment, but... Given
| my own experience with the medical system, I can't resist and
| state the (for me) obvious: Maybe that was the reason for him
| to pass so early...
|
| (To put my comment in context, I was abused for a medical
| experiment by a high ranking doctor at the age of 7, and am
| 100% blind since then.)
| vintagedave wrote:
| You have been downvoted, but I'm not sure that's
| reasonable. While doctors do generally do their best,
| sometimes medical care is not ideal.
|
| Your point though seems to be rooted in what happened to
| you as a child. I'm sorry to hear it. Could you share
| something about what happened please?
| lynx23 wrote:
| I expected nothing else but downvotes. It is pretty
| representative for the times that peopel can not stand
| viewpoints which do not align with their own.
|
| And no, I am not going to post my personal medical
| history on HN in detail. My short description of the
| incident is already personal enough. Besides, what would
| that help? Everyone picks their own convenient opinion
| these days, all that can come out of this is that people
| publicly will doubt my personal experience, which is not
| useful for anyone.
| 634636346 wrote:
| I upvoted you, for what it's worth. People here really
| are relentless with the downvoting and flagging.
| logicchains wrote:
| Statistically, medical error is the third leading cause
| of death in America, so it's not surprising.
| lynx23 wrote:
| I am aware how dangerous it is to completely and utterly
| give oneself up to the medical system. Those without
| experience dont want to believe this for the sake of
| their own feeling of comfort and safety.
| [deleted]
| jfk13 wrote:
| https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-
| health/m...
| madacol wrote:
| [flagged]
| madacol wrote:
| My takeaway from that article are these important
| criticisms:
|
| - Correlation is not causation: A medical error, followed
| by a death does not implies medical error caused death
|
| - The study that claim is based (BMJ analysis), suggest
| that 62% of US hospital deaths are caused by medical
| errors. Which seems hard to believe, especially having
| similar studies instead suggesting a 3.6% in UK, 4.6% in
| Norway, and 5% in a meta study
|
| - Experts do not agree which facts are medical errors
|
| Most (All?) other claims were about high uncertainty.
| Small Ns and possible biases in the samples, many obvious
| and others even irrelevant criticisms
|
| ---
|
| There's still a lot of uncertainty, even in the
| criticisms.
|
| I think they could have easily made estimations with the
| UK, Norway and meta study hospital data to have a minimum
| estimate of medical errors to counter BMJ analysis with a
| more reasonable number.
|
| We really should calculate more and talk less (I am
| already sinning with this comment --_(=/)_--)
| madacol wrote:
| TL;DR in UK medical errors seem to be the 7th Cause
| leading factor
|
| I did some maths (Or Code interpreter did? but I did
| verified unsourced numbers are in the ball park, at least
| for UK)
|
| So for UK the estimate of deaths by medical errors is
| ~11k deaths, which puts it at the 7th cause factor
| according to this chart
| https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-number-of-
| deaths-b... just below dementia and above liver desease
|
| ---
|
| Keep in mind that I am not sure if the 3.6% figure really
| means causation, I am tired!
|
| GPT4 chat link:https://chat.openai.com/share/7d235295-c14
| 9-45f0-ac3d-2a0cfd...
| cmilton wrote:
| I believe the comment you are replying to is sincere.
|
| Not everyone is "picking their own convenient opinion".
| There are good people in this world that just want the
| best for others. I think that may be the case here.
|
| Godspeed.
| vintagedave wrote:
| > And no, I am not going to post my personal medical
| history on HN
|
| I understand. I hope my request to learn more came across
| as polite to you. The reason for asking was to understand
| more about the motivations and beliefs / experiences
| behind your comment.
|
| > Everyone picks their own convenient opinion these days,
| all that can come out of this is that people publicly
| will doubt my personal experience, which is not useful
| for anyone.
|
| I like to think HN is a forum where this is less likely,
| or where poor responses are flagged or downvoted, but of
| course I've seen it here too, and I understand your
| caution.
| ChoHag wrote:
| [dead]
| jug wrote:
| Maybe, but in by far most cases his is the correct course
| of action.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Will can help though, which is why the placebo effect is a real
| thing.
| dang wrote:
| We detached this subthread from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36795786 and marked it off
| topic.
| specialist wrote:
| IDK.
|
| The way I read u/ecohen16's telling is that Mitnick first beat
| apathy and bureaucracy just to have a shot at mitigating a
| disease, thereby postponed the inevitable.
|
| I've lived it. Late 80s, I had a terminal diagnosis. Lucky me,
| my doc found a clinical trial, and fought like hell to get my
| HMO to pay. Justification was for org to use me to learn about
| emerging treatment (stem cell transplant is current variation).
|
| A few years ago, my buddy got a terminal diagnosis. Apparent
| chronic sports related injury turned out to be a late stage
| tumor, which had spread. Prognosis was 3 - 6 months. None of
| his care providers were interested in escalating, only talking
| about palliative care and hospice. He did exactly as Mitnick.
| Managed to get enrolled in a clinical trial using immunotherapy
| for his precise diagnosis. Timing wise, a few weeks either way
| and he'd be dead. Dumb luck.
|
| I can give a few more examples. (And 100s of counter examples.)
|
| Do patients beat cancer?
|
| Of course not. Among the survivors I know, disease (like
| cancer) is part of life and you deal with it. Or not.
|
| But, some times, if we're really stubborn, and have sufficient
| resources and support and dumb luck, we can do things to live a
| little bit longer.
|
| > _that did not "Fight hard enough"_
|
| Sometimes the patient, family, and especially the care
| providers don't fight hard enough. For all sorts of reasons.
| Probably because awareness of mortality made humans neurotic
| and we're all just winging it. Probably because everything is
| russian dolls of triage.
|
| Any way, it's just a metaphor. Chose the one that works for
| you.
|
| Just like I refuse to victim blame/shame, I'm not going to
| judge another person's coping mechanisms.
| dorfsmay wrote:
| To make it worse, and to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, it's
| your own cells, your own body killing you.
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| Any doctor will tell you that mentality is incredibly important
| in fighting (yes, fighting) diseases.
|
| It is well known that your psychological state influences the
| immune system a lot, and even from anecdata, you can see that
| people rapidly deteriorate when they give up. It is not a
| coincidence all these terms are used.
|
| Can all cancers be beaten by sheer will? Of course not.
|
| But it does play a huge factor in many cases.
| mizaru wrote:
| https://www.cancer.org/cancer/survivorship/coping/attitudes-.
| ..
| master-lincoln wrote:
| >It is well known that your psychological state influences
| the immune system a lot, and even from anecdata, you can see
| that people rapidly deteriorate when they give up. It is not
| a coincidence all these terms are used.
|
| citation needed. This meta study seems to not have found many
| biological links:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361287/
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.cobeha.2019.01.009
|
| https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejon.2003.09.003
|
| https://doi.org/10.1080/16506078809455814
|
| https://doi.org/10.1037%2F0033-2909.130.4.601
| master-lincoln wrote:
| the last link is the same study I linked to come to the
| opposite result of you :D
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| Why do I read the opposite? Brief
| naturalistic stressors (such as exams) tended to suppress
| cellular immunity while preserving humoral immunity.
| Chronic stressors were associated with suppression of
| both cellular and humoral measures The more
| a stressor deviated from those parameters by becoming
| more chronic, however, the more components of the immune
| system were affected in a potentially detrimental way.
| radicalace wrote:
| wrong. this would be correct if doctors gave you perfect
| instructions as a rule. but doctors dont care about maximizing
| the probability of good health or long lifespan. they only care
| whether your outcomes are up to the standard defined by the
| medical establishment and the expectations of laypeople. as
| long as your doctor meets those standards, they wont be sued,
| lose their practice, be fined or suffer an insult to their high
| status. so often there are better treatments and overlooked
| treatments that got lost in that incentive scheme. patients who
| are proactive and singleminded will definitely do better with
| all illnesses including cancer. never understood this until i
| saw both my parents through cancer. but by far the biggest
| advantage is to have advocates, family with you at all times,
| especially in the hospital.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Let's put it that way, the will is never sheer. Looks like the
| will pushed Kevin to deal with it and relentlessly look for
| solutions (and put his money to use) instead of succumbing to
| it. If so, then in the end obviously it's his will that helped
| him score a win against cancer.
| raffraffraff wrote:
| Every type of cancer is different. I think that if you're young
| enough and lucky enough to have avoided close dealings with
| terminal cancer, you might be fooled into thinking that the are
| all kinds of new treatments that can cure _you_ if you get
| diagnosed. But what you eventually realise is that every cancer
| is different. Some are treatable, and others are an extremely
| aggressive and don 't respond to anything. My sister's ovarian
| cancer made itself known in March, was officially diagnosed in
| early April and she was gone by September. It did not slow down
| for anything. On the other hand an old boss of mine was
| diagnosed with terminal colon cancer and lived 4 years,
| eventually _choosing_ to end his treatment because he 'd just
| be dragging out a final two painful weeks into 6 painful
| months. And then there are the lucky ones that get a lump
| removed and never hear from it again.
| natebc wrote:
| Very sorry for your loss. Fuck cancer.
| lgvld wrote:
| Sorry for your loss. Chin up.
| tinsmith wrote:
| People with a lot of money can "fight," at least in terms of
| throwing everything medical science has to offer at it. I
| suspect that's where the narrative originated, then took on the
| mythos that it was somehow sheer will.
|
| Meanwhile, the rest of us ride on pure luck as we watch cancer
| destroy our loved ones. They gave my dad a month with a glial
| blastoma. He lasted about 6, most of which the dad I knew was
| not present for. Tbfh, I feel like he would have rather gone
| quick, not enduring the twisted shit we watched him go through.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| One of the few known modifiable risk factors is sun exposure,
| which reduces risk by 30-40%:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24075798/
|
| Whether it would be too late to do anything after getting the
| diagnosis is another question. Studies that look at sun
| exposure over time and mortality (e.g. Lindqvist's studies)
| show that it takes decades of sun exposure to lower the
| mortality risk by this amount.
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| Parent was not saying that Kevin Mitnick made himself better
| with sheer will, rather that he was enabled by his personality
| and wealth to obtain experimental and/or risky treatments that
| turned out to improve his condition.
| prmoustache wrote:
| The thing is even that is speculative. You cannot know that
| these treatments specifically worked better. These are things
| we can only assess via statistics on more than a single
| patient.
|
| I.E. x% more patient survive after n years while using this
| or this treatment. And same treatment could increase odds of
| dying sooner from other decease out of scope with the
| research years later.
| dools wrote:
| It can make a pretty big difference if you have lots of money
| though.
| carabiner wrote:
| [flagged]
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| If by "Saint Theodore" you mean the Unabomber... real saints
| don't murder people.
| dang wrote:
| " _Don 't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them
| instead._"
|
| a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| [flagged]
| dang wrote:
| Could you please stop posting flamebait? We've asked you
| several times already.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| truthmaters wrote:
| [flagged]
| 89vision wrote:
| What a legend. I remember reading text files about his lore in my
| early days of exploring the web and being absolutely captivated
| by it all. Rest easy, Kevin
| eelhazred wrote:
| RIP.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick
| concernedctzn wrote:
| hack the planet!
| daniel-cussen wrote:
| Passive voice, better title is Kevin Mitnick died, or passed
| away, sugar coat it like he never did if you want, we all know
| what it means. I suddenly feel bad for him, though. He deserved
| the black ribbon.
| yreg wrote:
| mirror:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230719235437/https://www.digni...
|
| Rip. I've read Art of Deception in high school and I think it had
| a lasting influence on me. It reads like a collection of
| interesting stories. I recomend that book to everyone, especially
| to people outside of tech.
| bootcat wrote:
| RIP - He was a role model to upcoming social engineering folks,
| wordsarelies wrote:
| He was childlike in his pranksterism. He never seemed to lose his
| wonder or his ability to make you feel like a jackass.
|
| The man who could whistle the nuclear codes has passed away. And
| now maybe I can strike the social engineering village before the
| sun comes up.
| effingwewt wrote:
| Rest in Peace.
|
| A hacker far before it was cool.
|
| A pioneer in so many ways.
|
| A hero as I was growing up.
|
| o7
| Minor49er wrote:
| He's social engineering his way through the pearly gates now.
| Rest in peace, Kevin
| throwaway88008 wrote:
| The post mentions Dutchman Stu Sjouwerman as a close friend.
| Kevin was partnered with Stu in the security company KnowBe4.
|
| Stu is a dedicated Scientologist, and has donated millions and
| millions of dollars to that corrupt organization. I know because
| I served in the Scientology Sea Org and knew Stu when he was on
| "OTVII". This was before KnowBe4, but he was still something of a
| big donator. He really hit it big with KnowBe4 and became one of
| the few whales still funneling massive amounts to the church.
|
| I found out about the connection between Stu and Kevin while I
| was working as a developer for a tech company. One day we started
| getting those security tips and tricks emails, white labeled so
| they looked like they came from our own AppSec team. At the end
| of the emails it ended with the line "the price of freedom is
| constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back". A direct
| quote from L Ron Hubbard and one Scientologists (and former
| Scientologists like me) know well. After digging deeper I found
| out they were coming from KnowBe4 and saw Kevin listed on the
| site as being a partner.
|
| Business relationship aside, after reading Ghost, you get the
| sense that Kevin would not and could not stop hacking. Maybe he
| matured and that urge dulled but I always wondered if he ever did
| some covert snooping into what Stu was up to with Scientology.
| The Sea Org computer and communication systems are ancient (they
| still use pagers for some things!). It would have been a blast
| for someone like him to compromise their systems. And they are
| right there in Clearwater down the road from KnowBe4
| headquarters...
|
| Posting with throwaway because I ain't tryna win a covert
| Scientology harassment and stalking op and have my family disown
| me which happens to virtually every former member who speaks out
| publicly.
| autoexec wrote:
| They seem to hook a lot of clever people. I always assumed it
| was some kind of weird tax dodge, but maybe Scientology doesn't
| get enough credit for their social engineering skills
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| Just because somebody is somehow "clever" doesn't make them
| immune to scams -- they just need to be a specific type.
| Scientology targets a person's sense of self-importance and
| empowers the feeling that they are somehow special and
| mentally gifted. Something that many "clever" people have.
| kaydub wrote:
| Kevin still red teamed all the time through his other company.
|
| I seriously doubt he ever tried to hack SCN.
| estomagordo wrote:
| > Posting with throwaway because I ain't tryna win a covert
| Scientology harassment and stalking op and have my family
| disown me which happens to virtually every former member who
| speaks out publicly.
|
| What vile and quite obviously delusional people!
| darig wrote:
| [dead]
| placesalt wrote:
| Sad to see. Pancreatic cancer is one of the scary ones, since
| there are so few symptoms before you hit stage 4.
|
| For those who haven't seen it, Freedom Downtime is a movie by the
| 2600 gang which is mostly about Mitnick's imprisonment, and the
| whole Free Kevin movement.
|
| (I wonder who wrote the obituary, it's especially wide-ranging,
| and poetic in parts.)
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| Obligatory link
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ILA5Cso3w
| alfanick wrote:
| He made me. I remember back in my teen years reading interviews
| with him, I was back in phreaking scene. He was a hero. He is a
| hero. What a loss.
| mats852 wrote:
| RIP.
| prmoustache wrote:
| "He is survived by his brother-in-law, Ricky Barry and his wife
| Roxy"
|
| What a strange way to phrase it. Why don't they mention his
| sister first? Is it plain sexism or were they in bad terms?
| alias_neo wrote:
| I'm assuming you know something I don't (about who Roxy is),
| but it's entirely possible to have a brother-in-law married to
| someone that is not your sister.
|
| I have a brother-in-law; my wife's brother.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I think I simply forgot about that use case and assumed she
| was her sister ha ha. Makes sense indeed.
| ineedasername wrote:
| I missed meeting Kevin Mitnick at the infamous HOPE 2006
| conference where he was set to speak, but he was waylaid by
| something or other and he landed in the hospital. His reputation
| was still a presence through those few days though, just a few
| short years after his release from prison.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| I'll go in tomorrow and update our August KnowBe4 training
| deployment for August to be a couple of his modules. Our users
| won't know, and I guess he won't either, but cancer sucks and
| it'll make me happy to do it.
| leptons wrote:
| KnowBe4 is the bane of my work existence. It's honestly the
| worst thing about my job, having to take their courses. It's
| too bad Mitnick sold out to Scientologists (KnowBe4), but I
| guess he had to cash in somehow. It kind of upsets me that I'm
| forced to watch Mitnick's videos about social engineering,
| considering his own nefarious use of the tricks he's teaching
| people to avoid. I mean, I guess learn from an expert? That
| service just rubs me the wrong way, maybe it's the
| scientologists that run it.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| First I've heard they are scientologists. Although I'm not a
| shoot the messenger type.
| mitnk wrote:
| R.i.P - My id was originated from his name..
| phone8675309 wrote:
| Rest in peace, Kevin. I am so glad that a much younger me got to
| meet you one day at a conference. Best to your family.
| atum47 wrote:
| Takedown was my favorite movie as a kid. It influenced me a lot.
| In Brazil is not common to have a bathtub in your bathroom, we
| used suicide showers (term that I recently learned on YouTube);
| anyway, the image of Mitnick hacking in the tube on his laptop
| resonated with me, I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
|
| May he rest in peace.
| myshpa wrote:
| Real hackers get:
|
| "Sorry, you have been blocked"
|
| "You are unable to access dignitymemorial.com"
|
| ;)
| smcl wrote:
| I think we should have a link that isn't totally broken. I
| guess a lot of people here read the headline and came to
| comment and share some anecdotes, which is totally fine. But
| the link is broken, so we should at least fix that. Here are a
| couple of alternatives:
|
| https://www.engadget.com/kevin-mitnick-formerly-the-worlds-m...
|
| https://boingboing.net/2023/07/19/kevin-mitnick-1963-2023.ht...
| r3vo wrote:
| Worth noting that Wikipedia at the time of this post is refusing
| to acknowledge his death, citing poor sources.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Mitnick&act...
|
| Hope he is alive and well. May he rest in peace if not
| CaliforniaKarl wrote:
| The New York Times has their obituary up:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/kevin-mitnick-...
|
| RIP
| r3vo wrote:
| Rest in peace :(
| motbus3 wrote:
| Mitnick was a warrior battling giant corps alone. I believe he
| did that just because he could only, but it does not take the
| merit of one guy being able to outweight the whole industry.
| tern wrote:
| "FREE KEVIN MITNICK, NOW" https://youtu.be/xkKa-jvh4Ik (@1:55)
|
| Does anyone know where this samples comes from?
| ck__ wrote:
| yt link doesn't work for me (Video unavailable), instead that
| one works. https://youtu.be/REfjr5I6l3E?t=115, good album thou.
|
| about sample, i thought it was hacktivists recorded protest on
| television but 'this is digital hijack' doesn't fit into it.
|
| search leads to etoy project https://etoy.com/projects/hijack/
|
| and to book: Contemporary art - an introduction, page 129
| (google books/search); "Artists have inhabited online space
| alongside corporations that made concerted efforts to force the
| change from forum to mall. That commercial colonisation has
| been a rich subject for net artists who have produced many
| sharp and sophisticated pieces designed to draw the shopper up
| short. One of the most notorious was etoy's Digital Hijack
| which diverted surfers who had typed in keywords such as
| 'Madonna', 'Porsche' and 'Penthouse' into a search engine, and
| clicked on etoys' top-rated site, being greeted by the
| response: 'Don't fucking move. This is a digital hijack',
| followed by the loading of an audio file about the plight of
| imprisoned hacker Kevin Mitnick, and the hijacking of the
| Internet by Netscape (Stallabrass, 2002: 226). Mitnick became a
| cause celebre for the hacking community, and for those wishing
| to ensure freedom of expression on the net generally. "
|
| this part is interesting: "followed by the loading of an audio
| file about the plight of imprisoned hacker Kevin Mitnick" hot!
|
| after quick exploring hijack.org it seams that sold very cheap
| flexi record with song titled "the digitalhijack-song" but
| website doesn't have any audio files to check.
|
| searching further, internet gave copy of etoy digital_hijack,
| https://www.ubermorgen.com/digital_hijack/track/track.html
|
| only one file work and its cut:
| https://www.ubermorgen.com/digital_hijack/track/s_this_is_hi...
|
| but ! its possible to search for file digital-hijack.mp3 on p2p
| media sharing platform which name begin with "So" ;)
| jmbwell wrote:
| Oh my god. I was on the phone with him not that long ago
| discussing a red team project. I had no idea what was going on.
|
| He was always generous and kind yet professional, despite us kind
| of fanning out. He had the ease of someone who knew what they
| were doing and didn't feel they had anything to prove, which of
| course he didn't.
|
| I was looking forward to working with him more. I hate how you
| never know how a thing's going to go.
|
| Here's to the innumerable things about modern connected society
| that are the way they are, whether indirectly or directly,
| because of Kevin Mitnick.
| zuuuuuh wrote:
| [flagged]
| xwdv wrote:
| Fuck man, this hit me hard and unexpected. Ghost in the Wires was
| one of my favorite books. Was fun to read about a true hacker,
| definitely inspired me. He was too young.
|
| Can't believe there is no black banner. This is _hacker_ news.
| kraig911 wrote:
| He left us too soon. Does anyone else see a correlation of
| pancreatic cancer and our industry? It feels as if there's
| something about our profession. Steve Jobs, Randy Pausch, Now
| Mitnick? I've also had two coworkers who died of
| kidney/pancreatic cancer.
|
| Beyond that I remember reading about him in 2600 and my mind
| being blown. He definitely helped leave the world we live in
| better than when he found it.
| rafale wrote:
| A brillant man who, as a kid, inspired and motivate me by his
| cool exploits (even though I didn't end up pursuing
| cybersecurity).
| tazjin wrote:
| Archive link for those in countries that this page doesn't allow
| access from: https://archive.is/13uNy
| kruxigt wrote:
| [dead]
| kaishiro wrote:
| Terrible news, especially at that age. I remember reading "The
| Art of Deception" in college.
|
| Just out of curiosity, does anyone have anything else
| corroborating this? Everywhere seems to be sharing the same
| dignitymemorial.com link.
| helf wrote:
| [flagged]
| capableweb wrote:
| If you and your wife really love each other and your wife
| really want to have a piece of the love you had in form of
| another family member, why not?
|
| Is the submission for someone who just died the right place to
| write something you already know is harsh? Considering the kind
| of person Kevin was, I'm sure a bunch of his friends are on
| here, reading these very comments so maybe just a tiny bit of
| respect would be suitable.
| j45 wrote:
| Totally.
|
| It's the age old issue if someone can't understand something
| therefore there can be no understanding in it.
|
| While many people are remembering the Free Kevin phenomenon,
| the random places the t-shirts would appear for years.. like
| other things Kevin appeared to do - it's a decision that's
| entirely Kevin and his wife's business, and they seem more
| than capable of it.
| hknmtt wrote:
| Event after decades, I remember that name.
| egberts1 wrote:
| Not sure if this is folklore but Kevin Mitnick installed a
| firewall for the White House.
| ineedasername wrote:
| damn, fuck cancer
| wanderingmoose wrote:
| There was something I always wanted to ask him:
|
| He was so meticulous is setting up new identities and moving to
| random places around the country to avoid the authorities. But
| would then log back into his previously compromised systems in a
| way that would expose his current geographic location. It always
| seemed like such a glaring hole in his otherwise well thought out
| personal opsec. I'm sure the story was more complicated than what
| appeared in the press at the time, or in the 2600 knock-off zines
| that were going around at the time, or in his books. It always
| confused me. I could never figure out if that was an oversight,
| or he just wasn't aware he was being watched.
|
| I think I share a similar pendulum swinging feelings about km as
| other folks here, especially as his story unfolded across many
| different phases of my life: from adulation as a teen, to
| realizing that he was just another a*hole who would lie to your
| face to get what they want. Recently it has swung waaay back the
| other way -- especially as more of our access to customer service
| for critical aspects of our lives get buried behind
| obstructionist systems -- to understanding that we always need
| people who can tear any system apart.
|
| As an addendum...I think the term hacker should be handed to the
| sys admin that started was instrumental in getting km located by
| (If my foggy mind remembers correcly) by emailing logs or log
| stats to himself and noticing that size was shrinking so someone
| was deleting them -- that blew my mind at the time.
|
| He will be missed.
| arbitrage wrote:
| I believe that at first it was a game for him. Eventually he
| got tired of running, and this may have been a way of taunting
| his pursuers and forcing an end-game situation that he
| overestimated his chances against.
|
| He was not prepared for four years of solitary and
| unconstitutional delaying of his trial. He did not ultimately
| have a game plan for what to do if his opponent cheated.
|
| If the government had acted justly (that is, according to their
| own laws) he would have been found innocent and walked at his
| trial. However, the prosecutors lied, they cheated, corrupted
| the system they claimed to protect, and that was it. Game over,
| no redos.
| jijji wrote:
| pour out some liquor for my homie
| pjmq wrote:
| Recently re-discovered him due to a Business Wars podcast episode
| on him. The dude deserves his own movie. Not a nice way to go but
| he'll surely be remembered.
| slowhadoken wrote:
| All my immediate family is very young so I always thought 50 was
| old. Then I lost a stepfather to cancer when he was in his 50's.
| I couldn't believe it, he was so young.
| hghjg6576 wrote:
| [flagged]
| dariushro wrote:
| Was he vaxxed?
| biguss wrote:
| RIP Kev, you were quite a legend!
| biglyburrito wrote:
| BoingBoing is now confirming it:
|
| https://boingboing.net/2023/07/19/kevin-mitnick-1963-2023.ht...
| capableweb wrote:
| Confirming? They're reiterating from the same source as
| everyone else (dignitymemorial.com) hardly confirmed and can't
| even call that journalism.
| [deleted]
| biglyburrito wrote:
| Here's another source that independently confirmed Mitnick
| died:
|
| https://www.securityweek.com/famed-hacker-kevin-mitnick-
| dead...
|
| You're right, though, about my original post -- that was my
| bad! I read their blurb but didn't click through the link...
| thank you for the callout.
| david_shaw wrote:
| For those looking for an official source outside of the obituary:
| Dave Kennedy (a longtime infosec pro and, in my opinion, a
| trusted source) confirmed in a tweet:
| https://nitter.net/HackingDave/status/1681838080355966976
|
| Although I haven't seen an "official" statement, I believe that
| this news is legitimate.
|
| RIP Kevin.
| CaliforniaKarl wrote:
| The New York Times has also posted their obituary:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/kevin-mitnick-...
| asow92 wrote:
| Ghost in the wires was a fantastic read. Rip
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| RIP. I can't appropriately explain to anyone who wasn't around
| for it just how much he influenced my thinking from the late 80s
| to late 90s.
| mgdev wrote:
| There goes my hero.
| ianpenney wrote:
| The hacker community needs a word akin to "Silent Key" - in the
| ham radio community - that means a contributor that's passed on.
|
| Never met the guy but you're damn right I know who he is. And I
| come from the middle of nowhere.
| jacquesm wrote:
| AFK.
| wnissen wrote:
| He certainly was an interesting person. It was always amazing the
| degree to which law enforcement prosecuted his hacking and
| cracking, when it seems like much more impactful crimes involving
| computers go uninvestigated. Plenty of people are hounded by
| threats of violence into leaving their jobs and homes, that seems
| far more impactful than Mitnick's crimes.
|
| And FYI, while he died unexpectedly young, a 57-year-old man in
| the US has only a 50% chance of living to see their child reach
| 23 years of age. I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable risking
| leaving a child with a likelihood of dealing with my death at
| that relatively young age.
| bagels wrote:
| Doesn't that statistic depend heavily on how old the child is
| to begin with?
| [deleted]
| wittenbunk wrote:
| Child are typically born zero years old.
| bagels wrote:
| Okay, but most 57 year olds aren't having children at 57,
| most will have children well before that, if at all.
| dghughes wrote:
| I think it's pretty amazing to be 57 and expecting a child. I'd
| be thrilled. I'm 54 no kids and I wish I could have great
| relationship with a woman that is so good we had a child.
| Seeing how sick he was and sterility is a possibility from
| cancer drugs I think Kevin would be thrilled about the child as
| anyone would be.
| layer8 wrote:
| The question is about whether the child will be thrilled to
| have a father who died before they were born.
| pc86 wrote:
| > a 57-year-old man in the US has only a 50% chance of living
| to see their child reach 23 years of age
|
| Perhaps a clearer way to put it: a 57-year-old man in the US
| has a 50% chance of living to 80, which doesn't seem quite as
| shocking of a statement.
| hnick wrote:
| It might also be loaded with the assumption the man has a
| child - I'd assume outcomes are different for those with and
| without? I wonder by how much.
| riffic wrote:
| yo if people like looked at an actuarial table they'd have a
| better idea what that means
| jonhohle wrote:
| How many men are having their first child at 57? I'll be well
| under 57 when my oldest child is 23.
| pc86 wrote:
| I'm not sure what that has to do with the parent comment.
| oefnak wrote:
| I on the other hand, don't understand why that first
| comment brought up children at all. Did Kevin have his
| first kid at 57?
| wittenbunk wrote:
| Reading between the lines of the article he battled
| cancer for 14 months, but his wife is currently pregnant
| with their first kid. So they chose to have a kid knowing
| he was a 57 year old with an aggressive form of cancer.
| esprehn wrote:
| Per other comments his cancer was in remission for a
| portion of that 14 months as well.
| kevmo wrote:
| Yikes.
| callalex wrote:
| The third sentence of the linked article tells us that
| his wife is pregnant.
| glimshe wrote:
| Interestingly, I'll be 57 when my child is 23.
| rvba wrote:
| I guess it is more of a millionaire thing.
|
| The poster above mentioned that Mitnick had more than 9
| million shares of some company sold for ~25 dollars each.
| That would be ~225 million.
| m4jor wrote:
| >And FYI, while he died unexpectedly young, a 57-year-old man
| in the US has only a 50% chance of living to see their child
| reach 23 years of age. I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable
| risking leaving a child with a likelihood of dealing with my
| death at that relatively young age.
|
| To me it seems more like he wanted to have a child with his
| wife before he passed so they planned it out so it would
| happen.
| [deleted]
| PostOnce wrote:
| None of the commenters expressing this bullshit sentiment will
| provide their children with 1% of the education, health,
| freedom, security, etc that Mitnick will have left for his
| child. We struggle our whole lives to provide, it looks like he
| already assured that for his family, even into perpetuity if
| managed well.
|
| It's not like he gave himself cancer on purpose and chose to
| leave a child with nothing out of spite. He played the hand he
| was dealt, it seems.
|
| "Mitnick has filed a 13G form with the Securities and Exchange
| Commission (SEC) disclosing ownership of 9,379,829 shares of
| KnowBe4, Inc. Class A (KNBE). This represents 6.9 percent
| ownership of the company. "
|
| " companies announced on Wednesday that they have entered into
| a definitive agreement, with KnowBe4 stockholders set to
| receive $24.90 per share in cash, "
|
| "Vista Equity Partners to Acquire Security Awareness Training
| Firm KnowBe4 for $4.6B"
|
| https://fintel.io/news/mitnick-kevin-discloses-stake-in-knbe...
|
| https://www.securityweek.com/vista-equity-partners-acquire-s...
| unethical_ban wrote:
| What?
| wnissen wrote:
| He decided to have a child knowing that an average man had
| decent chance he would be dead before they entered college.
| Being in remission from one of the more deadly and rapid
| forms of cancer meant he knew or should have known that the
| child would likely grow up without a father. That does not
| seem like support to me.
|
| And Warren Buffet will tell you that you want to give your
| kids enough money so that they can do anything, not so much
| that they can do nothing. Have you spent time around kids who
| know they will be millionaires when they grow up? Really
| messes with your head. A buddy of mine was supported by his
| parents as an expat in a resort city and ended up brutally
| murdering his dad after they clashed about money.
|
| And FWIW, I will be able to give my kid enough money to do
| anything, have been carefully developing his mental and
| physical aspects, travel abroad, language immersion, etc. So
| your attack is inaccurate in my case.
| PostOnce wrote:
| I'm not trying to attack you, just the idea. (I saw the
| same sentiment from several commenters) I'm just saying I
| strongly disagree with publicly questioning a dead man's
| decision to have kids when the kid still has at least one
| parent and financial stability. There's plenty worse you
| can do and not a lot better. If he'd lived to 80 would it
| have been "perfect"? We can't all achieve perfection.
|
| It's virtually always impossible for almost everyone to be
| able to simultaneously 1] have kids while you're still
| young 2] wait until you have "enough" money.
|
| Warren Buffet's quote doesn't make sense, because both
| "anything" and "nothing" are relative. You can "do nothing"
| with extraordinarily little money. You can also not be able
| to do "anything" even with billions of dollars (start an
| asteroid mining company?).
|
| If you give your kids the moon, you just have to make sure
| they still have motivation and character, it's still
| possible. Not everyone who inherits money is a layabout.
|
| I can stop now though, I think we just fundamentally have
| different opinions on this and probably won't budge much.
| dang wrote:
| Please make your substantive points without calling names.
| This is in the site guidelines:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
| PostOnce wrote:
| You're right; I could've said that without calling it "a BS
| sentiment".
| dang wrote:
| Thanks for the kind reply. We got emails saying I was off
| base on this one so clearly it wasn't an obvious call!
| PostOnce wrote:
| That's interesting that people felt it worth the time to
| email.
|
| I think what's going on here is that some people (myself
| included) find it _extraordinarily_ offensive to question
| someone 's right to procreate, whether they're "good
| enough" by some metric to have done so. Are you young
| enough, rich enough, smart enough, tall enough, moral
| enough, etc.
|
| Of course, the offense can be a combination of being
| offended on behalf (of Mitnick in this case), and also
| projecting (what if we lived in a world where people
| questioned whether _I_ should have children for reasons
| of age, wealth ... or worse reasons.)
|
| I think we live in a world where we need all kinds of
| people from all kinds of parents; when we start to pick
| at who "should" have children, we risk losing something.
| wittenbunk wrote:
| Right who needs a father figure when you have cash....
| dang wrote:
| Please make your substantive points without snark. This is
| in the site guidelines:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
| PostOnce wrote:
| We don't live in an ideal world. That doesn't mean it's not
| worth living in.
|
| The man didn't hang himself, he got a case of severe bad
| luck. I'm sure he'd be here doing the father figure stuff
| if he could, but if he can't, that doesn't mean the kid
| shouldn't have been created, and really, that's their
| family's own personal decision to make.
|
| Ultimately, he did a good job for his family and the kid
| will be fine.
|
| People shitting on him on the _day he died_ for _choosing
| to have a kid_ that he leaves _very well taken care of_
| just seems wrong in several different ways.
|
| I mean, we could all be at work trying to provide for our
| theoretical kids right now and we're sitting here saying
| dumb shit on the internet instead.
| ldargin wrote:
| On the flip side, his child will grow up knowing he had the
| coolest dad ever.
| bragr wrote:
| Well just doing the math, they must have conceived after his
| diagnosis, so presumably that was baked in sadly just knowing
| the actuarials on pancreatic cancer.
| neilv wrote:
| I'm sure the child will grow up knowing that they were wanted
| and loved.
|
| Obituaries mention surviving family members by convention, but
| otherwise leave very personal matters to the family.
|
| The death of someone can be a reminder of our own mortality.
| Maybe a later HN post can work through some of those thoughts.
| woooooo wrote:
| Everything is high school. A rebel thumbing their nose at the
| system must be punished, while the conventionally corrupt
| deserve the benefit of the doubt.
| goodpoint wrote:
| That's very specific to US society. Authorities treat
| computer intrusion more seriously than many violent crimes
| because it can affect companies and the government.
|
| Companies and the government can spy on people all they want
| (see Snowden) but the reverse is punished severely (see
| Assange)
| javajosh wrote:
| Wow, this comment is the most profound thing I've read in a
| while on HN. I find myself a) intuitively agreeing and b)
| trying to pick it apart. Society as a whole seems to have a
| very complicated love/hate relationship with rebellion and
| rebels. But with Mitnick it's like he personified Chaos vs
| law enforcement's Order in an almost mythological, Jungian
| sense that goes beyond any utilitarian justification.
| bdn_ wrote:
| Who knows where I would be today if not for Kevin's influence...
| Kevin was (and will continue to be!) a role model in many ways.
| RIP
| giantg2 wrote:
| If you're looking for other stories, _The Art of Deception_
| (Mitnick specific) and _The Art of Intrusion_ (not all Mitnick)
| have a ton.
| m4jor wrote:
| Ghost in the Wires is a good one too
| muzani wrote:
| I used to read these while procrastinating on network security
| exams. Damn, they were a lot more fun than expected.
| freedomben wrote:
| Those two books, plus Ghost in the Wires, are absolute must
| reads for anyone who visits HN
| blackoil wrote:
| The question is should we buy them or pirate!
| gv83 wrote:
| the answer is "social engineer a librarian to get them for
| free"
| ddalex wrote:
| Librarian: all the books are free here...
| alias_neo wrote:
| "Good <timeperiod>, <librarian>, I'd like to borrow this
| book please"?
|
| Or the way my 3yo daughter does it these days; "beep".
| dylan604 wrote:
| In a similar vein of social engineering, _Exploding The Phone_
| is good read about the Phreakers of yore.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| It's in my Amazon list and now I know why. I'm 34 and learned
| about phreaking well after it was a thing but it inspired me.
|
| Now I'm a cybersecurity consultant (glorified sysadmin)
| making a nice salary but without any of the joy that was
| present in my 20s rebelling against my F100 company's IT
| policy. Installing Dokuwiki on a shadow server just to get
| shit done. Helping write a custom request system to get shit
| done. Consequences came after.
|
| I'm not comparing myself to Mitnick, rest in peace, only
| reflecting on the passing of a titan before my prime that
| represents a moment in communication hacking that may never
| exist again.
| splitbrain wrote:
| Labelling the installation of DokuWiki as rebellion just
| made my day :-D
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Confluence was a piece of crap 10 years ago.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I feel you. I'm the security champion for my team. It's no
| joy and all paper pushing. Just the other day they handed
| over some systems to me... 20 open vulnerabilities and 6
| missing assessments. Nobody gives a damn about security.
| dormento wrote:
| > making a nice salary but without any of the joy that was
| present in my 20s rebelling against my F100 company's IT
| policy
|
| You just hit it. That feeling. Me too, nowadays I mostly go
| through the motions. No enthusiasm, no joy, no interest, no
| energy... no "spark". Mitnick lived and shined at a time
| when showing off didn't just land you in jail. Until it
| did.
|
| Long live the legend.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I wish I remember which book I read about Mitnick (and others).
|
| I developed a strong dislike for Mitnick, however. As others
| have said, he came across as an adolescent with an over-sized
| ego. More "Jackass" than "Silicon Valley". Although I'm sure
| he's not the only "hacker" for whom illegal entry into computer
| systems gave him a sense of self-importance.
|
| No thanks.
|
| Edit: yeah, probably was "Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the
| Computer Frontier". I still don't think "bullshit artist" is
| something to aspire to.
| NovaDudely wrote:
| I never saw anything inspirational about what he did but it
| did highlight just how human fallilble our computer
| technology could be.
|
| Could have got the message out in a better way but the story
| of him avoiding the law provides that sort of thriller plot
| line that engages people.
| celticninja wrote:
| I think it's more that he was one of the first/earliest to
| use technology to amplify his skills on a scale previously
| out of reach of most people. Coupled with the fact that he
| was way ahead of his opponents and a young man, it is quite
| understandable the path he took.no one is perfect, but don't
| let perfect be the enemy of good.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I think it was within reach of plenty of people but most
| people with that ability decided that breaking the law
| wasn't what they wanted to do with their lives.
| ec109685 wrote:
| That was the book I remembered. Great set of stories.
| DropInIn wrote:
| Eh, social engineering was and still is a major component of
| infosec, right?
|
| He was very good at that segment of the industry
| ("penetration testing" via social engineering).
| autoexec wrote:
| Manipulating people is more interesting in some ways than
| exploiting a bit of badly written software because while I
| write terrible code all the time, I _could_ fix it too but
| there 's no patching our stupid stupid brains. We can try
| to be more careful, and avoid falling for things others
| have already, but the flaws are still there just waiting
| for the moment our guard is down.
| 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
| Some human exploits can be patched, at least partially.
| 2FA with hardware authentication helps prevent people
| from leaking their own passwords and such. Phishing
| detectors help. Etc. I'm sad to admit my wife is better
| at this than me. Any time anyone she doesn't know tries
| to talk to her, she's quick to escape. I tend to try to
| politely decline, she just books it
| atVelocet wrote:
| It is called a workaround not a patch.
| retrocryptid wrote:
| There is no patch for human stupidity.
| davidron wrote:
| Education is a patch. It's very hard to install though.
| keithalewis wrote:
| Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend vain.
| freedomben wrote:
| Sad news. His biography/story "Ghost in the Wires" is one of the
| most amazing books I've ever read. I highly recommend it. The
| audiobook is read by Ray Porter and is gold. I'll be giving it a
| re-listen.
|
| His books "The Art of {Deception,Invisibility,Intrusion}" are
| absolute bangers for most of the people here. Can't recommend
| enough
| paul7986 wrote:
| He was expecting his first child at 59/60 which is awesome
| especially those 10 to 15 years younger or so who like to still
| also, yet he dies before his child was born. Heartbreaking!
|
| RIP
| __warlord__ wrote:
| I'm a bit "on the younger generation" but I remember the movie
| based on his story: "Take Down"
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159784/.
|
| To this day I know the difference between a cracker and a hacker
| :)
|
| RIP.
| lyu07282 wrote:
| Its a pretty cool movie, surprisingly realistic with a focus on
| social engineering. No idea how accurate it was otherwise,
| probably not really.
|
| Sad to see, he was way too young to go. RIP
| sgammon wrote:
| Mitnick was a hero to me. Very sad to hear this.
| jboy55 wrote:
| My parents vaguely remembered who Kevin Mitnick was when I gave
| my father my copy of 'Ghost in the Wires' to read.
|
| I told him, this was the 'hacker' of the 80s, read how he managed
| to 'hack' all these places. My father replied, "I'm pretty sure I
| won't understand anything he would do". Me, "Just give it a
| chance, you'll be surprised"
|
| When he gave the book back, I asked my father if anything Kevin
| did my father wouldn't have understood. My father said, "I
| understood everything he did". I asked, "Now, when you get a call
| from someone you don't know claiming to be an authority figure,
| what do you do?". Father: "Hang up"
| dryrun wrote:
| Would there be a modern version of this? I haven't read it and
| I'm interested, but mostly my parents are getting old, and with
| AI on the corner, I fear a bit the next level scams.
| brailsafe wrote:
| I don't think it's ever gone away, and stands to get even
| worse now. Good to have a safe word with your family in-case
| they ever get an important call from you or the reverse
| iso1631 wrote:
| This is especially important now with easy and convincing
| voice generation
| jboy55 wrote:
| The scams are still the same as how he hacked.
|
| He called someone, claimed to be an authority, knew the
| lingo, asked for help and time was the critical.
|
| Someone calls your parents and claims to be an authority
| figure, that there is a crisis, and they must act now.
| TheBigSalad wrote:
| Any time a big hack makes the news it turns out that either
| some system had no security, they used social engineering, or
| a disgruntled former employee. Hackers aren't sitting there
| with a super computer in a Guy Fawkes mask trying to decrypt
| data. The scams are the same now as back then.
| not_real_acct wrote:
| > Any time a big hack makes the news it turns out that
| either some system had no security, they used social
| engineering, or a disgruntled former employee.
|
| Back in 2003 or so, my boss showed up at my desk at work,
| and looked like he was about to blow a gasket. There was a
| hack that was on the news, and it was getting featured in
| news stories all over the world.
|
| He basically said he was going to fire me if it turned out
| it was my fault. (I built the servers that held the data
| that was compromised.)
|
| Within a day, it turned out that it wasn't _all_ the data,
| it was just one person, who had a lot of famous friends.
|
| What had happened was that someone had accessed her
| account. The way that they did it was by guessing her
| password. Her password was the same as her dog's name, and
| she was a celebrity known to be seen at events with her
| dog.
| defrost wrote:
| Two of the most recent most high profile hacks required a
| large degree of preplanning, scoping out, custom coding etc
| to achieve the breadth and depth of penetration gained upon
| execution.
|
| How would you classify supply-chain attacks?
|
| Primary security was bypassed by breaking secondary
| security .. so there was security to be overcome, there was
| no social engineering aside from understanding procedures
| in play, and no disgruntled employees.
|
| https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/SolarWinds-hack-
| ex...
|
| https://forensiccontrol.com/guides/unravelling-the-moveit-
| ha...
| felixhammerl wrote:
| let me blow your mind with "the lazarus heist" podcast: h
| ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloa
| ds
| defrost wrote:
| Another good example, thank you.
|
| Over time they got more interesting and less like the
| "basic unsophisticated | opportunistic | social engineer
| | inside agent" description given above.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Group
| chris_wot wrote:
| The modern version is "hang up".
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| The modern version should be 'put down' (does anyone still
| hang their phone on a wall nowadays?), and an even more
| modern one would be 'push red button' :)
| ralgozino wrote:
| don't push, tap :-D
| ryanmercer wrote:
| That's sad. I imagine Crunch will be next.
| log101 wrote:
| Ghost in the Wires has had a huge influence on me choosing a
| programming career. So sad, rest in peace.
| theodric wrote:
| I guess he's never getting put back then.
|
| RIP Kevin
| nhggfu wrote:
| the greatest.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| The real OG of hacking
| 1024core wrote:
| Damn! Didn't Steve Jobs also die from pancreatic cancer?
| throwaway892238 wrote:
| When I was 16 years old, I started a 2600 meeting at a local mall
| food court. We joined in the 'Free Mitnick' movement, and would
| go around handing out flyers, explaining the implications of his
| case, peppering the place with stickers, putting them in copies
| of 2600 in Barnes & Noble and Borders. His case was an
| inspiration to a budding little hacker and taught me to become
| more idealistic and push for legal reforms and the rights of
| people who were punished far more than they deserved. Later in
| life I got to meet him at hacker conventions, and he was a super
| nice guy. I even got one of his lock-pick-set business cards! I
| know he's somewhat of a controversial figure, but he was also
| inspirational.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| The authorities obsession with Mitnick was because John Markoff
| and the New York Times made the public believe that hackers
| were effectively in control of everything and could go as far
| as starting WW3 by hacking into NORAD and other similar caliber
| BS that never happened.
| pizzalife wrote:
| You can watch some of Kevin's telnet logs here:
| http://www.takedown.com/evidence/transcripts/index.html
|
| No disrespect to the dead, but I always thought he kind of lived
| in a lame timeframe. It used to be a lot easier to do what he
| did. If you check the terminal logs, he was a script kiddie at
| best (I know he's more famous for the social engineering). How
| many CVEs did Mitnick have to his name..? (AFAIK, zero)
|
| Anyway, I'm prepared to get some downvotes but do check out the
| logs. It's pretty entertaining regardless.
| tmaly wrote:
| Very sad that he did not see his first child.
| huyimo wrote:
| [flagged]
| bluedays wrote:
| I talked to Mitnick once on the phone. I was on a partyline back
| in the AIM days and a hacker friend of mine called him up. Kevin
| seemed very frustrated that he kept calling him. I was just
| dumbfounded I was actually on the phone with Kevin Mitnick so I
| didn't say anything. Was shocked and saddened to see this. Sorry
| about that night, Kevin. Rest in peace.
| cryptoz wrote:
| Well I'm crying. Kevin was my hero for so many years growing up
| and inspired me to do nearly everything I've done. I met him at
| The Last HOPE so many years ago and I feel so privileged for that
| opportunity.
|
| RIP Kevin, we'll miss you so much.
| bubblematrix wrote:
| Rest in Peace Kevin, I read your The Art of Human Hacking in 7th
| grade after learning about you from The Screen Savers TV show.
|
| Too young
| [deleted]
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