[HN Gopher] WhatsApp Is Down
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       WhatsApp Is Down
        
       Author : foobarbazprod
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2023-07-19 20:46 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (metastatus.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (metastatus.com)
        
       | burgerrito wrote:
       | I think I used WhatsApp around that time... I'm pretty sure I was
       | able to use it normally
        
         | baby wrote:
         | yeah same, didn't notice any downtime
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | Did they switch from Erlang to Ruby or JavaScript?
        
       | jmrm wrote:
       | I don't have anything to support this, but I think WhatsApp get
       | down every time they make a major server side update.
       | 
       | IIRC there was a major down just before they added calls. Maybe
       | I'll check up later the dates
        
       | 7e wrote:
       | WhatsApp eventually comes down.
        
       | EgregiousCube wrote:
       | I haven't used WhatsApp in ages, and a couple hours ago I got a
       | very persistent scammer trying to get me to talk to them.
       | Probably just a coincidence, but it makes me wonder if this is
       | security related.
        
         | Ensorceled wrote:
         | I had the same experience. Also anecdotal but maybe a few more
         | data points....
        
       | blovescoffee wrote:
       | Is it going to be a DNS problem?
        
       | c0balt wrote:
       | Interesting, looking at the history it appears to be a spotty
       | last few months. "Major" outages every two weeks or so. I wonder
       | what brings instability into such a mature product.
        
         | Sterm wrote:
         | The people who wrote it left and the ones who stayed don't know
         | how the system works.
        
         | brasic wrote:
         | Pre-acquisition WhatsApp was built using Erlang and had an
         | impressively large user-to-server ratio IIRC. I expect that
         | since then things have mostly been rebuilt to use existing meta
         | shared infrastructure which might not be as stable or
         | efficient.
        
         | leesalminen wrote:
         | downdetector.com is also showing a spike of users reporting
         | issues with Instagram around the same time. Assuming both
         | products are hosted with the same infra, perhaps the issue is
         | up-the-chain and not related to any changes in the product per
         | se.
        
       | leesalminen wrote:
       | Basically everything I was doing came to a grinding halt for 45
       | minutes because I live in Latin America, where your entire life
       | runs on WhatsApp.
       | 
       | It's infuriating because nobody will consider any other messaging
       | app. My phone's carrier also gives everyone several free GBs of
       | WhatsApp data per month.
        
         | dools wrote:
         | WhatsApp rose to prominence because data was cheaper than SMS.
         | Is that still the case in Latin America? In Australia there are
         | no mobile plans with metered SMS charges anymore.
        
           | leesalminen wrote:
           | Yes, at least for me it is. My pre-paid plan (~$14/mo) gets
           | me 4GB data but only 50 SMS. I also get 3GB of free WhatsApp
           | data. There is no prepaid plan with unlimited SMS.
        
             | dools wrote:
             | That's mental, no wonder everyone uses WhatsApp!
             | 
             | EDIT: out of curiosity, which country are you in?
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > 4GB data but only 50 SMS.
             | 
             | Woah. I knew there were still places that charged for or
             | metered SMS use, but I had no idea that the restrictions
             | were that severe.
        
         | seany wrote:
         | > My phone's carrier also gives everyone several free GBs of
         | WhatsApp data per month.
         | 
         | Meta is surely compensating them in some form
        
           | DanitaBaires wrote:
           | It has been like that before Meta.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | I worked on carrier partnerships (among many other things)
           | while I was at WhatsApp, from before FB through 2019.
           | Carriers wanted to setup special pricing (including zero-
           | rating) for WhatsApp with or without our help or approval.
           | Before acquisition, the only compensation we provided was
           | approval to use our brand (which we didn't have resources to
           | litigate around the world over anyway), our list of IPs (and
           | notifications when they changed), and maybe a little bit of
           | guidance/support on how to identify traffic; although from
           | conversations I had, the DPI vendors had ways of doing it
           | anyway without our help. In return, WA got some amount of
           | marketing, and sometimes access to zero cost SMS (used for
           | registration). Additionally, by participating with carriers,
           | rather than letting them do their own thing, we were able to
           | influence them towards providing a good experience for users;
           | WA did not approve of text only special pricing[1], it had to
           | include attachments, and we did our best to keep carriers
           | updated on IPs to reduce the amount of miscategorized usage
           | leading to overage or connectivity problems. To my knowledge,
           | there was only one deal with monetary compensation, but it
           | theoretically flowed to WA, not to the carrier.
           | 
           | My understanding is the carriers wanted to run these deals
           | because they attract customers who often convert to full
           | internet plans. Messaging is nice, but customers eventually
           | get outside links and want to experience the web or other
           | applications.
           | 
           | Post acquisition, deals moved into Facebook's mobile partner
           | portal, and afaik, there was still no compensation for
           | WhatsApp deals, but the MPP does also offer analytics
           | (audience insights) to carriers, and I'm not sure if it's a
           | requirement to have a special pricing deal to get that or
           | not.
           | 
           | It's been several years, so it's possible the program has
           | changed.
           | 
           | [1] If you've seen that on planes, it wasn't authorized when
           | I was there, and I don't think it's authorized now, but it
           | doesn't stop a motivated network from providing the service.
        
       | ajhai wrote:
       | This status page is for WhatsApp Business API
       | (https://developers.facebook.com/docs/whatsapp/cloud-api/) and
       | not for the consumer product that most of us depend on.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Arguably businesses are affected too if none of their customers
         | can message anybody, including them.
        
       | nine_k wrote:
       | I suppose the proper spelling should be "WhatsApp is Dawnn".
        
       | rs999gti wrote:
       | I thought WhatsApp users went to Telegram after the Facebook buy
       | out?
        
         | baby wrote:
         | Everyone I know in SF uses whatsapp
        
         | jaimehrubiks wrote:
         | Literally everyone in Europe uses Whatsapp exclusively
        
           | KomoD wrote:
           | No, not literally everyone, I'm in Europe, I don't use it, my
           | family doesn't use it, my friends don't use it, nearly nobody
           | in my city uses it, in fact most people in my entire country
           | don't use it.
        
             | chirau wrote:
             | What country is this and what is the app you use instead?
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | Not all of them. I use WhatsApp purely to talk with one friend
         | in another country who is only willing to use WhatsApp to
         | communicate.
        
           | chirau wrote:
           | So you also use Whatsapp.
           | 
           | Maybe the 'other' people you know also just use it the same
           | way you do, for that one international friend.
           | 
           | Whatsapp usage is quite prevalent in SF.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > So you also use Whatsapp.
             | 
             | Of course, as I said.
             | 
             | > Maybe the 'other' people you know also just use it the
             | same way you do
             | 
             | I'm confused about what you're responding to here. What
             | other people? I didn't mention anyone else. That one friend
             | happens to be the only person I know who uses it. Or at
             | least the only person I know who has asked me to use it.
             | 
             | I didn't assert that nobody else uses it. In fact, I was
             | providing an example that not everyone has abandoned it.
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | Telegram isn't end-to-end encrypted, all of your conversations
         | end up in plaintext on their servers. That's a no-go for a lot
         | of people.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Only the ones that don't understand the difference between
         | transport and end-to-end encryption.
        
           | jcfrei wrote:
           | Just because whatsapp says it's end-to-end encrypted doesn't
           | mean that they don't have access to your (locally generated)
           | keys.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | Sure, WhatsApp could roll out an update that sneakily
             | exfiltrates your local encryption keys and/or messages any
             | day, or might have already done so. That's the case for
             | most apps (yes, even open source ones, since at least the
             | Apple App Store does not allow for deterministic builds.)
             | 
             | It's theoretically possible to improve on that, by e.g.
             | providing a way to double-check all client-to-server
             | communication, but that's extremely difficult to do without
             | at the same time weakening the encryption (since it
             | requires either deterministic encryption and/or leaking
             | keys via a debugging interface). I believe Threema has done
             | something like that at some point.
             | 
             | Telegram however wouldn't even need to, since practically
             | all messages are already available to them server side.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Or the vendor of your smartphone.
        
         | 31337Logic wrote:
         | Signal.
        
         | bombolo wrote:
         | Most users don't even know that happened.
        
           | wombarly wrote:
           | Depends? I remember WhatsApp being bought by Facebook (and
           | subsequent privacy issues) being in the news a lot in the
           | Netherlands.
           | 
           | Most people either don't care or everyone around them only
           | uses WhatsApp for chat making it difficult to switch.
        
       | notorandit wrote:
       | Who cares!
        
       | foobarbazprod wrote:
       | Noticed WhatsApp messages are stuck on sending to server. They
       | don't have a public API status page besides their business portal
       | as linked above
        
         | coolgoose wrote:
         | I noticed it since I can't send messages to any of my contacts
         | :D
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | TIL WhatsApp has an on-premise product...
        
         | minton wrote:
         | If a system goes down when Meta experiences outages, can it be
         | considered "on-premises"?
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Why not? On-premise and autonomous/decentralized are two
           | completely different aspects.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | I think it's effectively some weird containerized WhatsApp
         | client. The benefit seems to be that it provides end-to-end
         | encryption between the company and the customer, unlike Meta's
         | hosted version.
        
           | dilly_li wrote:
           | Wait, Facebook's whatsapp is also end-to-end encrypted,
           | right?
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | It is, but for B2C messaging, there is a solution hosted by
             | Meta that terminates the encryption at the gateway level
             | (i.e. Meta can see the message content).
             | 
             | The alternative to that is the on-premise solution.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-19 23:02 UTC)