[HN Gopher] India's sex workers turn to WhatsApp, Instagram to f...
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       India's sex workers turn to WhatsApp, Instagram to find clients
       safely
        
       Author : vinnyglennon
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2023-07-19 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (restofworld.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (restofworld.org)
        
       | pratik661 wrote:
       | As opposed to sex workers in other countries?
       | 
       | This article has a "every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes"
       | 
       | or "In Japanese culture, killing someone is frowned upon" vibe to
       | it.
        
       | mise_en_place wrote:
       | > She could not meet her clients outside due to movement
       | restrictions in her city Sangli, nor bring them home as she
       | didn't want her daughter to know she was a sex worker.
       | 
       | It must be wild to have a sex worker as a parent. Maybe I'm
       | getting older but there's no way that's a good environment to be
       | raising a kid in.
       | 
       | Like that adam22 guy, no way his daughter will turn out normal.
       | Especially when they were using her for content like his wife
       | breastfeeding her.
        
         | chimeracoder wrote:
         | > It must be wild to have a sex worker as a parent. Maybe I'm
         | getting older but there's no way that's a good environment to
         | be raising a kid in.
         | 
         | Plenty of people are raised by parents who did sex work.
         | There's no inherent reason it has any effect on parenting.
        
         | rngname22 wrote:
         | Do you find it strange to think we wouldn't consider it weird
         | to have a parent who was a soldier or a boxer or a cop who had
         | demolished someone's face on camera or killed another human
         | during a non-defensive war or put someone in a cage for selling
         | a plant, but the idea that a parent would give another human
         | one of life's greatest pleasures for money is disturbing?
        
           | bittercynic wrote:
           | I'm not the one you asked, but I think those are all various
           | degrees of disturbing. Don't you?
        
         | postmortembees wrote:
         | Why, why would you say that? Parent leaves for work, parent
         | comes home from work with income.
         | 
         | Is it because sex work is dangerous? So is fishing, and pizza
         | delivery, and construction.
         | 
         | Is it because sex work wears down your body? Plenty of general
         | contractors, nurses, and landscapers have jobs that are more
         | physically demanding.
         | 
         | I genuinely do not see how, if someone has a reasonable
         | separation of work/home, it would present any more negativity
         | on a kid's upbringing than any other physical labor.
        
           | ilyt wrote:
           | Well, one day kid will want to know where you work and what
           | you do and you can't lie forever. Especially if somehow they
           | learn early or other kids will.
           | 
           | But yeah there is plenty of worse things that can happen.
        
             | blamarvt wrote:
             | What's wrong with the truth?
        
             | candiodari wrote:
             | I hate that people have a purely punitive approach to this.
             | They get to feel puritan with a semi-reasonable argument:
             | sex work damages others! It damages children! And, for that
             | they get to do anything, because now they want to "help
             | children", and not what they're really doing, using
             | violence against children to attempt to impose their own
             | moral values on the world. What they're _really_ doing ...
             | that sounds a bit bad. But it sounds bad because it _is_
             | bad. And let 's ignore that organisations like the police
             | or Child Services definitely have their share of people who
             | merely want to use violence against children, for whatever
             | reason, because those _definitely_ exist.
             | 
             | Look at what these people DO! Are they improving child
             | services for the children in there? No, of course not.
             | These moral crusaders are, effectively, looking to punish
             | children so they can look good and moral. Damaging real
             | people, real children with real violence so society can
             | _look_ just a little closer to their moral ideal.
             | 
             | You see ... what determines if this is better or worse is
             | the alternative. If you're really after the welfare of the
             | child, what determines your position is the alternative ...
             | What damages the child more? That's what matters for the
             | moral position. Taking the child away, in India, leads to
             | this:
             | 
             | https://borgenproject.org/orphans-in-india/
             | 
             | So no, a parent who's a sex worker is a LOT better.
             | 
             | That _should_ be the basis for your moral position. It 's
             | all well and good to define an ideal and then blame people
             | for not attaining perfection ... but of course we'd all be
             | in jail if that's how we actually work. Is leaving children
             | with sex workers ideal? No, but WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IDEAL.
             | We care about the best possible situation for the child!
             | And that, sorry, is definitely, without any doubt, letting
             | sex workers raise children.
             | 
             | You want to change sex work? Offer these people some better
             | options. And if you can't do that, for whatever reason,
             | throwing the child into child services IS NOT a good second
             | option.
             | 
             | And I would argue this applies to pretty much every country
             | in the world, including the US. The situation of orphans
             | may not be quite as bad as in India, it's certainly not
             | better than living with (very) suboptimal parents, whether
             | that means this or ...
             | 
             | And, frankly, that should be the only concern.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | > how it would present any more negativity than any other
           | physical labor
           | 
           | The mistake is characterizing sex work as "physical labor."
           | 
           | There is a well documented link between sex work and
           | trauma/psychological disorders.
        
           | flangola7 wrote:
           | A frightening large amount of people have terrible and
           | judgemental attitudes towards sex work of any kind even
           | though there they are objectively irrational. Rather than
           | introspect, they try to debate and argue they are somehow
           | correct. This is one of my favorite most unapologetic videos
           | on the entire internet: https://files.catbox.moe/fzmvu0.mp4
        
           | _a_a_a_ wrote:
           | It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion.
           | Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious
           | groups.
        
             | chimeracoder wrote:
             | > It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion.
             | Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious
             | groups.
             | 
             | That's a common misconception, but it's simply not true. If
             | you talk to actual sex workers, they'll consistently tell
             | you that they face judgemental attitudes and discrimination
             | across the board, not just from religious people.
        
               | _a_a_a_ wrote:
               | Fair enough, that was just my impression. But it is my
               | impression also that most *organised groups against
               | prostitution often seem to have religion behind them. I
               | may well be wrong though.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | I would go further and say that _some_ people who are
             | against sex work are against the propensity for other crime
             | to occur (including trafficking, drug use etc) or for
             | violence to be perpetrated against sex workers.
             | 
             | Ironically, if we didn't have puritan attitudes, the
             | majority of those issues would be mitigated quite
             | drastically.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | In a strange twist, I wonder if the puritan attitudes
               | increase the retail 'price' of sex work? Said
               | attitude/laws increase risk, which lowers the number of
               | workers in the market, which increases potential earnings
               | of those willing to participate in the market.
        
               | _a_a_a_ wrote:
               | The earnings for a streetwalker, who is at the bottom of
               | the heap pretty much, is low. Some years ago I was
               | offered sex for PS15. I still feel sorry for that lonely
               | lady who was just trying to get by best she could. I hope
               | she's well.
        
           | akomtu wrote:
           | Well, sex work corrupts the workers psychologically and aids
           | the addiction of customers. Sex work is a lot closer to
           | selling mild drugs than to mowing lawns. It's hardly the
           | worst thing in our society, for there are far worse white
           | collar jobs that are officially respected, but it's not a
           | reason to whitewash it. Another way to think about it is to
           | imagine it's a virtual reality that customers pay for to get
           | a dopamine rush. The VR allows to create any experience for
           | the customers, but is it a good thing to do?
        
           | badrabbit wrote:
           | The idea that the person who gave birth to you is being used
           | to pleasure random men for money is psychologically
           | traumatizing because every child treasures and looks up to
           | their parents (or wants to). Their life and identitiy is
           | intertwined with yours and their decision or vicitimization
           | is also by extension affecting you.
           | 
           | You want your parents to be valued and respected. You would
           | think sex for money is valuing but it is or at least feels
           | like devaluing. It is one thing for your parent to have sex
           | because they want to and for the sake of it, it is another
           | thing to do it because they have to which means they are
           | unable or unwilling to provide anything else of value to
           | pursue partners they are interested in, instead of the
           | general public.
           | 
           | The idea that anyone, even neighbors and hobos could be
           | paying to penetrate the person you treasure the most and is
           | supposed to be role model and teach you how to live right is
           | at the very least disturbing. Even porn stars work with other
           | porn stars but prostitutes at best filter by appearances
           | aside from money.
           | 
           | Children are protective of their parents and vice versa.
           | Whether a child or parent, seeing them become a prostitute
           | feels like something sacred to you is being desecrated.
           | 
           | If that doesn't make sense to you, I suggest taking off the
           | ideological glasses.
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | I'm fairly certain what you describe in the last sentence there
         | is a crime. A very serious crime.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | What dystopian country are you in that makes a video of
           | breastfeeding an actual crime?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | Is that what it was? Or was it "content".
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | I mean, monetizing your child with breast feeding videos
           | might be considered tasteless even though it is legal and
           | certainly not CSAM.
        
         | _a_a_a_ wrote:
         | Perhaps you should look into it, try and find out a bit more
         | from other people's experience whose parents were sex workers,
         | before you decide. Otherwise you come across as bigoted.
         | 
         | The saddest problem from sex work that I'm aware of is people
         | get forced into it from lack of money. It may not be the sex
         | work so much as the poverty that does the damage to the
         | children. In terms of growing up with the constant fear of lack
         | of money, that deeply affects your parents, and that in turn
         | damages you. Yes I am speaking from experience.
         | 
         | edit: "A woman in Zambia stated that five blowjobs would allow
         | her to purchase a bag of cornmeal for her children."
         | https://www.socialconnectedness.org/the-stigmatization-behin...
         | Fucking hell.
        
         | s5300 wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | tohnjitor wrote:
         | It's not just you. That's an abominable environment to raise a
         | child in.
        
         | throwawayadvsec wrote:
         | It's just a job.
         | 
         | If you're independent, mentally sane, and not blowing your
         | money on drugs, you could actually give a better to life to
         | your kids that 99% of people.
         | 
         | I knew someone who invested enough of the money she made that
         | way so that her daughter would never have to work a single day
         | of her life, and she was like 40yo.
        
           | skilled wrote:
           | It's a job, sure... but it certainly isn't straightforward or
           | without its problems. And above all, sex isn't exactly "I
           | tried these gloves and I didn't like them so I will get the
           | other ones" type of deal.
           | 
           | Love is great because it's innocent and exploratory, I find
           | it hard to believe these sex workers deal only with clients
           | who are in it for romantic aspects, which means a lot of the
           | time these women will be taking on whatever nasty bullshit
           | their client is dealing with in their own life...
           | 
           | And that isn't something you can suppress for the rest of
           | your life. It will eventually seep out and begin to distort
           | your view of reality. And no amount of money can fix that.
           | 
           | Not trying to be too cynical but it's a major point to
           | consider if you want to weigh the topic as a whole.
        
             | rurp wrote:
             | > isn't something you can suppress for the rest of your
             | life. It will eventually seep out and begin to distort your
             | view of reality. And no amount of money can fix that.
             | 
             | Anyone working a job that deals with a lot of drunk people,
             | or criminals, or mentally unwell will experience a fair
             | amount of nasty behavior. It sucks, but people do the work
             | because it's their best option and others rarely judge them
             | for it. Except sex workers, they get judged by practically
             | everyone.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | I think that how harmful it is depends on the society in
           | which it takes place.
           | 
           | I mean, everyone who works is a prostitute in the more
           | abstract sense. We are all renting the use of our bodies for
           | money. The only difference between me and a sex worker is
           | that I'm renting my body to someone to be used toward a
           | different purpose.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | maxilevi wrote:
           | And how many people are like that? You are basically discard
           | most of the population
        
             | DennisP wrote:
             | Independent, sane, and drug-free doesn't seem like that
             | high of a bar to me.
        
             | _a_a_a_ wrote:
             | Most sex workers I've come across are not drug addled nor
             | mentally unwell. Obviously that's a tiny proportion and not
             | enough to draw solid statistical conclusions from, but at
             | least it's more data than you have.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | I think working from home is probably a much worse environment
         | to raise your kids than going to work and coming back and they
         | don't know that you sold your body for the day. The latter case
         | is indistinguishable between jobs.
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | > When Dhokne's friend lent her a smartphone to find work online,
       | she didn't know how to use it. "I had always used a black-and-
       | white [feature phone]," the 35-year-old told Rest of World.
       | 
       | Incredible to read so vividly about the digital divide. Glad
       | there are organizations geared towards connecting people with
       | more digital tools, lest them and their children get left behind.
        
         | mighmi wrote:
         | In India, voice-based UIs are extremely important in the local
         | app ecosystem, because of wide illiteracy in rural areas.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-19 23:02 UTC)