[HN Gopher] Medicine containers used in the golden age of piracy
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Medicine containers used in the golden age of piracy
        
       Author : blumpy22
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2023-07-16 22:51 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.piratesurgeon.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.piratesurgeon.com)
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | > For liquid medicines, a through and through dense container of
       | (substance) silver, glass or horn is manufactured
       | 
       | The horn option does not seem sanitary.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Horns are boiled as they are processed so it wouldn't be any
         | different than any other container in that sense by the end, no
         | random bovine microbes or whatever.
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | "first century Greek physician Pedanis Dioscorides says"
         | 
         | You might have missed the year. This bit was a advice from 2000
         | years ago, where horn was probably way more cheaper, than glas
         | or metal. And I think if it is polished, it might be not too
         | bad, but glas or silver are of course way better.
        
       | mynameishere wrote:
       | So, did they have any drugs that actually worked besides laudanum
       | and "bark"? My reading of Jack Aubrey books suggests that
       | medicine then was mostly about trauma care and bedside manner.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | Anglo-Saxon eye potion helps fight against superbug
         | https://www.wired.co.uk/article/medieval-eye-potion
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | Plants, mushrooms and animals have contained active substances
         | forever, it would be surprising that after millenniums of
         | trials and errors, the people of this time didn't settle on a
         | few things that worked.
        
           | nwiswell wrote:
           | Sure, but are there examples besides aspirin and opiates?
           | Unsurprisingly those are pain medications, since it was
           | immediately obvious that they work.
           | 
           | The other class of drug that would obviously be recognized as
           | effective are psychoactives such as alcohol, caffeine, and
           | nicotine.
           | 
           | By contrast I can't imagine how they could judge the efficacy
           | of e.g. blood pressure medications back in those days, even
           | though there are purely herbal treatments like aged garlic
           | that certainly do have an effect.
           | 
           | ETA: This wiki article has a good overview: https://en.wikipe
           | dia.org/wiki/List_of_drugs_by_year_of_disco...
           | 
           | Another notable category of ancient drugs is laxatives.
           | 
           | The first synthetic drugs did not begin to appear until
           | around the mid-1800s. In 1832 chloral hydrate was produced,
           | which was the first synthetic sleeping drug, but it wasn't
           | used clinically until 1869.
        
             | BiteCode_dev wrote:
             | Pretty much everything we now use as herbal tea, if highly
             | concentrated, will have a notable effect.
             | 
             | E.G: Thyme has well known antimicrobial properties and
             | thymol is (or at least was) a component of commercial
             | mouthwash.
             | 
             | Even when we don't make drugs out of the plant itself, it
             | could have been used for the properties we know about
             | today.
             | 
             | E.G: common vervain is known to have diuretic properties,
             | so it's not a long shot to think it has been used for this
             | particular reason at some point. Today we use diuretic to
             | treat heart failure, liver cirrhosis, or hypertension.
             | While they may not have had any way to catalog all this, it
             | seems unlikely nobody ever associated the consumption of a
             | lot of diuretic with people getting better for one reason
             | or another.
             | 
             | People were not dumb, and there were a lot of them, for a
             | long time. They likely tried a lot of combinations of
             | things, on purpose or by accident.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > People were not dumb
               | 
               | That people tend to think of our ancestors as being less
               | intelligent is one of my pet peeves. There is no reason
               | to even suspect that they weren't at least as smart as
               | modern man.
               | 
               | What they lacked was the accumulation of knowledge that
               | times gives. "If I see further, it's because I stand on
               | the shoulders of giants."
        
             | belenos46 wrote:
             | Lots of examples. 'Thorsons Introductory Guide to Medical
             | Herbalism' is, for example, both required reading for many
             | modern medical degrees and a collection of hundreds (of
             | documented; more realistically, thousands) of years of the
             | medical practice of herbalism.
             | 
             | And if you want some anecdata, I've used plenty of
             | preparations from that text for nausea, fever, menstrual
             | cramps (not mine, clearly), poor clotting, sinus
             | congestion, and likely some things that are slipping my
             | mind.
             | 
             | Plants are where we get a _lot_ of medicines from, and
             | while modern pharmaceutical companies may prefer that
             | information not get spread around (it 's basically the
             | whole reason we don't have a widespread practice of western
             | medical herbalism in the US), but the fact remains that if
             | you know how to get the medicine out of the plant, it's
             | still totally possible to do so.
        
               | tekla wrote:
               | > it's basically the whole reason we don't have a
               | widespread practice of western medical herbalism in the
               | US
               | 
               | Lol, the west doesn't do herbalism because if it works,
               | we just call it medicine.
        
               | sonicshadow wrote:
               | The west doesn't believe in herbal remedies because they
               | aren't patentable by the pharma industrial complex to
               | make $$$
        
               | strken wrote:
               | _America_ doesn 't _prescribe_ some remedies, herbal or
               | otherwise, because they aren 't _FDA approved_ due to an
               | unnecessarily burdensome approval process that costs tens
               | of millions of dollars to navigate, alongside a culture
               | of civil lawsuits that causes doctors to act with
               | excessive caution.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | "Essence of willow bark" is an example of an herbal
               | remedy the pharma industrial complex produces with no
               | patent currently: generic aspirin.
        
               | lelanthran wrote:
               | Nonsense. They happily sell out of patent medications by
               | the dumpster load.
               | 
               | They test it, if it works they sell it, else they reject
               | it.
        
               | tekla wrote:
               | No, its because the west rejects the "wooo" and makes a
               | pill out of the part that works.
        
               | drekk wrote:
               | It's overly reductionist to assume that all herbal
               | remedies are the result of 1, maybe 2 active ingredients.
               | The incentive for making a pill is less about efficacy
               | and more about patentability. I can't patent camphor, but
               | I can patent a 3% menthol & 3% camphor ointment suspended
               | in a gel base (Fast Freeze).
               | 
               | I don't think it's fair to say the west as a supposed
               | monolith rejects "woo", especially given the popularity
               | of pseudoscience re: vaccines, homeopathy, Reiki,
               | acupuncture, cleanses, etc.
               | 
               | I'm reminded of the great anthropological paper titled
               | Body Ritual Among the Nacirema by Horace Miner: https://w
               | ww.sfu.ca/~palys/Miner-1956-BodyRitualAmongTheNacir...
        
               | sonicshadow wrote:
               | Why take a thing that's been known for thousands of years
               | to be perfectly safe, when you can take this thing
               | invented in a lab and tested on mice for 10?
        
               | Drakim wrote:
               | > George Washington woke up at 2 a.m. on Dec. 14, 1799,
               | with a sore throat. After a series of medical procedures,
               | including the draining of nearly 40 percent of his blood,
               | he died that evening.
               | 
               | Old medicine and medical treatments were absolutely
               | lethal compared to what we have in modern times.
        
               | suoduandao3 wrote:
               | Iatrogenic deaths are still incredibly high today. Modern
               | medicine is the evolution of the doctors regarded highly
               | enough to treat the president, not the people who filled
               | their prescriptions in the woods.
        
               | hutzlibu wrote:
               | We certainly improved, but in 1799 I think it was already
               | the age of pseudoscientific medicine, where people
               | thought they were superior to traditional herbalist,
               | simply because they read some books. In other words, I
               | don't think any traditional medicine man would have done
               | that treatment.
               | 
               | (Apart from that, I surely go to a hospital if I am
               | really sick, but for everything light, I rather find
               | something else, than some drug, where I don't know if it
               | is helping me, or the doctors pension fund)
        
               | golergka wrote:
               | Earth has been known to be flat, women and POC have been
               | known to be inferior and homosexuality has been known to
               | be a sin.
               | 
               | But thankfully, humanity moves on, and among other
               | innovations, came up with such things as statistical
               | methods and drug testing. But if you so desire, you're
               | absolutely free to distrust modern western medicine --
               | after all, a lot of prominent people do, for example,
               | late Steve Jobs.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | > No, its because the west rejects the "wooo" and makes a
               | pill out of the part that works.
               | 
               | No, the west makes a pill out of the part that's
               | commercially profitable, which is a very different set of
               | criteria than "works". Things like shelf life/stability,
               | cost and availability, dose:response curves that are
               | _very_ predictable for the entire human population, etc.
               | 
               | What goes into pills has far more to do with what works
               | for business than what works for people.
        
         | 6177c40f wrote:
         | Plenty of stuff. For example, Mercury, which was used as an
         | ointment and a laxative, among other uses. Here's a
         | surprisingly readable excerpt from a medical text written in
         | 1787: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5545546/
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | https://www.piratesurgeon.com/pages/surgeon_pages/dispensato...
         | 
         | The smelling salts would definitely work. The oil of Wormwood
         | probably worked to remove intestinal worms. A lot of the others
         | I'm not sure passed the "first, do no harm" test.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Luc wrote:
       | I was wondering about the domed base of some of the bottles.
       | Luckily there's a 'Bottle Bases Page':
       | https://sha.org/bottle/bases.htm
       | 
       | > It may appear that the steep rise or pushed-up portion of the
       | base was done to reduce the interior volume of the bottle.
       | However, it was more likely done for some or all of the following
       | reasons: for bottle strength enhancing, stability (i.e., the
       | process helps form an even base and keeps the rough glass of some
       | pontil scars out of the way so the bottle sits upright without
       | wobbling), to provide a means of turning bottles in a stack using
       | the fingers and thumb (a procedure still followed in traditional
       | champagne manufacture), and/or possibly to trap content
       | sedimentation (Jones 1971a; Boow 1991).
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | Was this found using that random Web 1.0 link from just recently?
        
         | toastedwedge wrote:
         | I suspect we'll see a number of interesting websites posted
         | over the next few weeks because of that web 1.0 finder. I
         | personally can't wait
        
       | beej71 wrote:
       | I just have to say hats off to whoever decided to register this
       | niche domain. :)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-07-17 23:02 UTC)