[HN Gopher] Birds Build Nests from Anti-Bird Spikes
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       Birds Build Nests from Anti-Bird Spikes
        
       Author : dwighttk
       Score  : 186 points
       Date   : 2023-07-16 03:29 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | AndrewOMartin wrote:
       | Life, uh, finds a way.
        
       | Fiahil wrote:
       | Spikes and other stuff like these never work. You know what does
       | ? This : https://www.amazon.com/Hausse-Scarecrow-Sculpture-
       | Deterrents...
       | 
       | It's also cheaper, looks better and protect a much larger area.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | There is a grocery store near me with a dove nesting on a light
         | fixture directly above the entry. A fake owl is two feet away.
         | The dove doesn't care.
        
         | hypertele-Xii wrote:
         | My city has these kite-like predatory bird -resembling bird-
         | scare things on some buildings. Hawk-shaped kite tied on a
         | length of string to a building roof. When the wind picks up, it
         | animates the kite to look like a predatory bird hovering. Very
         | effective.
        
         | mplewis wrote:
         | Oh, those are the statues the pigeons sat on and pooped on at
         | my last company's patio.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Right up until they realize it never moves?
        
           | aziaziazi wrote:
           | A friend of mine got a pond with fishes in his garden, that
           | longed acted (unfortunately for the fishes) as a food store
           | for herons migrating. He then used a fake heron that worked
           | pretty well the first year, but not the second. Next years he
           | moved the plastic heron every couple weeks during the period
           | he knows they comes and apparently this works.
           | 
           | He's from Europe and use his own experience but apparently
           | this site may help for US residents
           | 
           | https://explorer.audubon.org/explore/species/1387/great-
           | blue...
        
         | BoxOfRain wrote:
         | I went to university by the sea in a town known for its
         | pterodactyl-like seagulls. Not only were the sculptures
         | ineffective the real hawks they hired to scare the gulls
         | apparently got turfed out by them!
         | 
         | You could always tell who the freshers were on sight, they were
         | the only people who didn't know you don't eat outside without
         | suitable cover.
        
           | Fiahil wrote:
           | It doesn't take a lot of effort to research potential
           | predator/competitors for seagulls and then hold trials on
           | what works. There's a lot of options, and if the gang doesn't
           | seem intimidated by your choice of predators, invent one.
           | 
           | I'm sure this would be a very interesting project for any
           | student!
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | Unless you're reintroducing a native species to the area or
             | providing habitat for existing-but-endangered species,
             | you're probably going to raise the wrong kind of eyebrows
             | with that kind of research.
             | 
             | These researchers say they're rooting for the birds after
             | all.
             | 
             | Humans have a long history of solving small problems by
             | introducing bigger problems re: introducing non native
             | species.
        
               | Fiahil wrote:
               | I was thinking about little resin sculptures of birds.
               | Not living creatures.
               | 
               | I'm rooting for the birds too, but I'd also like humans
               | to stop putting metal spikes on stuff.
        
           | xeonmc wrote:
           | Dinosaurs never really went away, they just Moore's law'd
           | themselves.
        
           | KineticLensman wrote:
           | > real hawks they hired to scare the gulls apparently got
           | turfed out by them
           | 
           | Lots of raptors, especially falcons, are essentially
           | specialised sprint predators and won't pick a fight with
           | another bird any more than a cheetah would try to fight a
           | hyena.
        
             | HarryHirsch wrote:
             | Pigeons are rats of the air and seagulls are hyenas of the
             | air. Sounds about right. And Canada geese are cobra
             | chickens.
        
               | KineticLensman wrote:
               | Interestingly, pigeons fly fast and in a straight race
               | can outfly many falcons. The falcons rely on a very fast
               | stoop from above, slamming talons-first into the target
               | bird hard enough to break its neck or even decapitate it.
        
         | scrapcode wrote:
         | Looks better? Highly subjective. I have some kind of birds that
         | build nests in a corner of my front porch that's about ~18ft
         | above ground. I'm not sure a plastic own hanging out up there
         | would be the most welcoming.
        
       | prody wrote:
       | I wish people would stop posting paywalled links.
        
         | Digit-Al wrote:
         | I have the following bookmarklet saved. When I hit a paywall
         | that can't be defeated by readerview I use this:
         | 
         | "javascript:window.open('://archive.is/'+window.location.href.r
         | eplace(window.location.search,''))"
         | 
         | (Put "https" before the "://" - I couldn't work out how to
         | prevent it being turned into a URL otherwise.)
        
           | prody wrote:
           | I know how to bypass it, but websites should see a dropoff of
           | clicks under paywall if it is to be discouraged. I do pay for
           | writing that I know and like, don't get me wrong, but if the
           | NYT want to have a member-only website, so be it.
        
         | sparrowInHand wrote:
         | We could build websites from snippets of paywalled links. Just
         | using them as resource for something usefull.
        
       | glenstein wrote:
       | I found this to be frustratingly light on detail. The most
       | obvious question, the question hanging over basically every
       | sentence: don't they, uh, hurt? How do you incorporate spikes
       | into a nest without living a life of constantly being pricked?
       | 
       | It does mention that Antwerp magpies have a special use where
       | spikes are outward pointing, effectively helping to create a
       | bunker keeping predators away. It also says something
       | frustratingly vague about spikes being bent "inward" and vaguely
       | referencing structural support, which evokes an image of the
       | pokey from Matilda.
       | 
       | But, this article creates the feeling that you can only get from
       | the internet, a feeling like you're in a room with a thousand
       | people but also with nobody. Because the obvious question, well,
       | if you pressed your hand down on such a nest, would it be spiky?
       | If so, is the life of a bird relying on these for a nest a
       | torturous life of constantly choosing its steps carefully in a
       | nest that's a blend of spikes and ordinary debris? Is there some
       | creative design that they have resorted to that mitigates this?
       | Are they just light enough that they can do some bird equivalent
       | of the human laying on a bed of spikes trick? Maybe the
       | statistical average of all the different angles of the spikes,
       | when arranged into a meshy nest, is such that the "bed" has an
       | average consistency that's bearable to the birds?
       | 
       | It's like all of the normal questions I would want to ask, but
       | the only specific comments in the article are about things that
       | appear to be unusual special cases.
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | > you can only get from the internet
         | 
         | It's a NYT article, how exactly is reading it online different
         | from reading it in a newspaper?
        
         | davidgerard wrote:
         | the paper:
         | 
         | https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/doc...
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | The relevant part is in the discussion section towards the
           | end. These nests aren't exclusively made of spikes. Often
           | it's just the roofs, which serve to defend against attack by
           | other birds but which don't have support the nest builder.
        
             | sitkack wrote:
             | That is amazing. They are using them for their intended
             | purpose, to keep birds away! And those structures look
             | post-modern. Hats off to you birds!
        
         | Applejinx wrote:
         | Gotta hand it to corvids. They're not doing it by accident,
         | they know exactly what they're doing. I don't know what's up
         | with the crows that are pointing the spikes inward. Do we have
         | self-loathing millenial crows out there? Is it an art statement
         | or some kind of metaphor for crow life, to attract gothy crow
         | girls?
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | Maybe they're doing it so that predator birds will get cut if
           | they enter...
        
           | JackFr wrote:
           | Have you ever tried to scratch your back with only a wing?
        
         | StrictDabbler wrote:
         | Bird spikes are dull. The goal is not to hurt birds. They just
         | create a surface that is less practical to land or rest on.
         | 
         | They do this by being vertical, parallel, and too close
         | together for a bird to get a good sideways grip on any one
         | spike. They don't prick the birds.
         | 
         | This means they're effectively a forest of highly uniform metal
         | twigs.
         | 
         | Ordinary nest building with removed spikes would create a
         | surface as comfortable as any other nest. It's not like twigs
         | aren't pokey.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | That doesn't mean they can't be cruel, of course. I've seen a
           | bird die on these spikes.
        
             | StrictDabbler wrote:
             | Absolutely. "Dull" is relative. They're cut-off wire. It
             | hasn't been sharpened but it hasn't been dulled.
             | 
             | A bird flying in for a landing can certainly impale itself
             | if it doesn't realize the spikes are there. All about speed
             | and momentum.
             | 
             | They just not particularly sharp from the perspective of a
             | feather-covered animal moving gently through a nest so as
             | to not damage the eggs. They aren't needles.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Birds only weigh a few ounces. They're not compressing their
         | nests so hard that fairly dull spikes would cut into them.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Another fundamental question not addressed:
         | 
         | > Rows of these sharp metal pins have become a common feature
         | of the urban environment, installed on rooftops and ledges to
         | discourage birds from perching or nesting on buildings.
         | 
         | Who installs these things and why? Maybe I'm not urban enough,
         | but I don't understand why you'd even install these things.
         | What's wrong with birds perching on a building?
        
           | quickthrowman wrote:
           | They shit _everywhere_. Pigeons especially. A layer of bird
           | shit is bad for your health and bad for business.
        
           | strken wrote:
           | The most common use near where I live is protecting signs,
           | lights, or electronic equipment from bird poo. Second most
           | common is protecting whatever is underneath the spikes, like
           | car parking, pedestrian paths, or windows. You see them a lot
           | in train stations protecting the electronic signs so they
           | stay readable, or anything else hung from the roof which
           | people might stand under.
           | 
           | Generally birds have plenty of other places to rest where
           | they won't be inconvenient to humans. I've never seen anyone
           | cover an entire rooftop with spikes.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | I have a rooftop deck on my house. I put up some wooden poles
           | to hang some lights on and after my first summer with the
           | poles up they were all covered in bird poop.
           | 
           | It's not a problem here in the winter when it rains enough
           | that the poop washes away but we can go weeks or months in
           | the summer and the accumulation of poop can smell bad.
           | 
           | Some bird spikes on the top of each pole has mostly solved
           | the problem.
        
           | yourusername wrote:
           | They also defecate on your building. Especially with doves
           | this can turn your building nasty looking quickly and
           | balconies unuseable.
        
           | Modified3019 wrote:
           | I'm going to have to install some screen mesh around the tops
           | of the pillars around my home entryway, because birds keep
           | perching and trying to build nests there. Just yesterday had
           | to remove a house finch nest that appeared the other day. As
           | much as I like them, I'm not letting them do that there.
           | 
           | The problem is when birds hang around someplace, they quickly
           | cover the ledges, walls and ground with shit.
           | 
           | That and I don't want baby birds screaming at 4am a few
           | meters from where I sleep.
        
             | voz_ wrote:
             | Trash approach, let the birds be, must you control
             | everything?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | astrodust wrote:
           | Pigeons, mostly. They poop on everything and that accumulated
           | poop can be a real health hazard.
           | 
           | https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-
           | topics/pigeon.pag...
           | 
           | If you think birds don't poop a lot remember there are entire
           | islands made of bird poop.
           | 
           | https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/nauru
        
       | DANGER_FF_19 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | Kinda reminds me of how some older people would pick up their
       | prescriptions at my Dad's pharmacy and tell him "Don't give me
       | any of those child-proof caps. I don't have any children at home
       | to open them for me."
        
         | msla wrote:
         | Continuing tangent:
         | 
         | The Optum RX mail-order pharmacy has caps where both sides can
         | be the "bottom" and screw onto the bottle, but one side is
         | childproof and the other is just a normal screw attachment.
         | Since they come with the childproof side of the cap engaged,
         | this does present the bootstrapping problem of getting the
         | bottle open to begin with, but thereafter you can just use the
         | other side of the cap.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | I believe those bottles are common at many US pharmacies
           | these days.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | I've heard of these but never seen one. I don't have any
             | prescriptions though.
        
               | Zancarius wrote:
               | They're pretty common. I had a sinus infection earlier
               | this year that wouldn't go away and had to get some
               | antibiotics. I picked up the RX from a local Walmart
               | pharmacy (closer to where I live) and they use the same
               | double-sided caps.
               | 
               | But again, it's like the other OP said: The childproof
               | side is the one that they put on first which could
               | present an issue for older people. I'd imagine you could
               | ask them not to do that, though. I never really thought
               | about it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | They often look like this, note the threads on the top of
               | the cap, they can be flipped over and used as a simple
               | threaded cap with no child lock:
               | 
               | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Walgr
               | een...
        
       | bennyg wrote:
       | I had birds build a nest in a nook where I put the spikes going
       | up and down like stalactites and stalagmites. They didn't care
       | and built right in the middle of the spikes... will look at just
       | boarding up the nook next year I guess.
        
         | blackbeans wrote:
         | It was explained in the original Dutch video that birds choose
         | to build a nest under the spikes, because it protects them from
         | other animals trying to steal their eggs.
        
         | hecatia wrote:
         | This sort of happens in the wild too. Weaverbirds spend their
         | life on spiny trees and build their nests on branches of such
         | spiny trees.
        
       | anonymous344 wrote:
       | "if something isn't working, it does not mean we should stop
       | selling it" -big pharma
        
       | chris72205 wrote:
       | https://archive.li/2023.07.13-183756/https://www.nytimes.com...
        
       | jrmg wrote:
       | I have a shed in my backyard that contains a hobby electronics
       | workbench. A couple of years ago, I could swear that I was going
       | through through hole 104 capacitors faster than I could
       | reconcile.
       | 
       | Around this time I noticed that a vent hole in the side of the
       | shed was uncovered, and likely had been for some time, which I
       | fixed.
       | 
       | A few months later I was doing a good spring cleaning, and I
       | found in the eaves of the shed a nest made mostly of long pine
       | needles (from outside the shed), but with a substantial
       | spattering of through-hole components too!
       | 
       | A bird had found the broken vent, and made a home in the shed
       | using whatever 'sticks' were handy to build its nest.
       | Unfortunately I probably blocked it off from its home when I
       | repaired the vent. I'm glad to say no eggs or dead baby chicks
       | were in it when I found it...
        
         | pryelluw wrote:
         | You had a birduino flying in for components. :D
        
         | huseyinkeles wrote:
         | that sounds really interesting, do you by any chance have a
         | picture of it? would really love to see
        
           | jrmg wrote:
           | I wish I did!
           | 
           | Unfortunately it was above head height, and I had it half
           | dismantled ('What are all these pine needles doing up here?!
           | And - wait - capacitors?!') before I realized what it was.
        
         | incahoots wrote:
         | Good on you for following up on the nest to determine the
         | potential aftermath.
        
         | busyant wrote:
         | My recollection is many birds use their nests for 2 to 4 weeks,
         | so maybe it was finished with your capacitors by the time you
         | found them. I love this story.
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | https://archive.is/7QMu7
       | 
       | Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36689463
       | 
       | It's hard to forget that hair.
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | What does the NYTimes article add to the previous article at
         | naturalis.nl other than a paywall?
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | Better pictures. I read the naturalis article and had no real
           | clue what I was looking at.
        
         | tilsammans wrote:
         | Auke-Florian is great. He's a talented presenter in addition to
         | being a scientist. In The Netherlands, he is sometimes flown in
         | for sciency sound bites on national television. Memorable hair,
         | indeed. https://youtu.be/UgnK483jiDE
        
       | blitzar wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Guess I can own a cat guilt-free then.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | Drones have feelings too.
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | This makes their achievements even more amazing.
        
           | blitzar wrote:
           | Hopefully it was a firmware update and not the machines going
           | rouge and collecting up materials to create a sentient army
           | of robot birds.
        
             | johnnny wrote:
             | They went rouge? As opposed to putting on mascara?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | TapamN wrote:
         | Explaining the joke/reference:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsgnrYog6W0
        
       | falcor84 wrote:
       | This sounds like a particularly useful adaptation for shrikes[0],
       | so they can impale their prey directly into their "dining room".
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrike
        
       | davidgerard wrote:
       | Here's the actual paper (in English):
       | 
       | https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/doc...
        
       | joe__f wrote:
       | I think they know. I definitely think they know when they crap on
       | your head.
        
       | ogou wrote:
       | Why post this on Hacker News?
        
         | fknorangesite wrote:
         | Because it is interesting.
        
         | apgwoz wrote:
         | The bird is a hacker.
        
           | tradertef wrote:
           | Birds are not real.
        
       | quickthrower2 wrote:
       | Is this an omen for Twitter?
        
         | quercusa wrote:
         | Maybe if it were pigeons.
        
       | huehehue wrote:
       | This reminds me of an art project that I've wanted to do for a
       | long time -- turning anti-homeless fixtures into furniture, or
       | augmenting the fixtures to be comfortable.
       | 
       | For example, some sloped areas have spikes to prevent folks from
       | reclining or laying down, but it would be possible to build a
       | chair/bed that's held in place by those very spikes.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-17 23:02 UTC)