[HN Gopher] Electric bike, stupid love of my life
___________________________________________________________________
Electric bike, stupid love of my life
Author : ingve
Score : 184 points
Date : 2023-07-16 13:00 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (craigmod.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (craigmod.com)
| blamazon wrote:
| > The first time I rode one was nearly a decade ago, in Kyoto.
|
| This isn't quite the primary thrust of the article but if you
| travel to Kyoto I highly recommend renting a e-bicycle to see the
| area. I will never forget the 2 days that my partner and I spent
| riding around there.
|
| I can recommend 'Fuune bicycle rental shop' - the proprietor will
| helpfully annotate a map for you with recommended routes and
| explain all the turns and paths with a translator device.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Unless there is already such a thing, I want to start an open-
| source electric bike (well, scooter/motorcycle actually, I see
| the pedals as more of a hindrance to adpoption) project this
| Winter.
| swader999 wrote:
| Check out "endless sphere e-bike forums" and ebikes.ca.
| wyre wrote:
| Pretty sure it needs pedals to be legally classified as a bike,
| otherwise it is an electric scooter and a whole separate list
| of laws apply, but this could vary by state and country.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| That's unfortunate that that is generally the case.
|
| Many people go full-assist -- twist the throttle and go. If
| they had to pedal significantly they would be disinclined to
| even ride an ebike.
|
| When the power is out, actually pedaling an ebike is one of
| the worst riding experiences ever.
|
| Pedals generally mean your seating position is higher, feet
| not touching the gourd when seated -- this too will
| disincline a larger number of people from ebiking.
|
| We should not be putting up hurdles for ebike adoption.
| chriswarbo wrote:
| I agree with what you say, but would still replace the word
| "bike" with "moped". If it has a throttle, it is not a
| bike.
| 0wis wrote:
| Remember that bicycle are the most efficient way to move a human,
| that's where the Steve Job's quote << Computers are bicycles for
| the mind >> comes from [1]. This efficiency never stops to amaze
| me.
|
| And an electric bicycle makes it way more convenient while still
| being quite efficient. I share the love of electric bikes with
| the author and I am sure that huge progresses in UX and
| efficiency are it to come in the field. Would love to work on it
| one day ! (But hardware is hard...) I am happy to see the subject
| on HN frontpage. If anyone know any quirky projects on the
| subject, I would love to know more !
|
| [1] : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_GX50Za6c
| otabdeveloper4 wrote:
| I'm pretty sure an EUC is way more efficient than any e-bike.
| readingistuff wrote:
| Electric bicycles are actually more efficient than bicycles
| (which are themselves more efficient than walking). The
| combination of human power and electric assist uses less total
| energy than human power alone!
| rpozarickij wrote:
| I wonder how is it possible to use less total energy? If you
| need to apply an amount of energy to travel a given distance,
| the amount can't be that different whether the energy comes
| from muscles or from an electric motor (or a combination of
| both). These are different sources of energy, but it's still
| energy.
|
| I'd imagine the movement of the legs while pedalling would
| affect the aerodynamics, but is there something else
| happening?
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| It requires looking farther back into where the energy
| comes from. Humans are rather inefficient at converting
| calories in carbohydrates into movement. Electric motors
| are comparatively better at turning electric potential
| energy stored in batteries to kinetic energy.
|
| Keep going this way and you'll eventually reach the
| efficiency of converting solar power to movement, which is
| again directly comparable, and electrical systems win
| compared to biological systems.
| rsynnott wrote:
| I would suspect regenerative braking (assuming that this is
| actually true).
| qwytw wrote:
| Do e-bikes generally have regenerative breaking? I
| assumed that given their weight the amount of energy
| captured would be very low also bikes have very different
| braking patterns compared to cars (unless maybe if you're
| going downhill and don't want to go too fast).
| rsynnott wrote:
| Most don't. I can't see how the claim (ebikes are more
| energy efficient than normal bikes) could possibly be
| true in any other circumstance, tho.
| hoerensagen wrote:
| I would imagine that the efficiency of a human peddling
| depends on the speed. So maybe it's more efficient if the
| motor does most of the work to get you up to speed?
| rollinDyno wrote:
| I am considering buying an e-bike. However, I live in NYC and
| have access to Citibikes. I am a member so I can ride regular
| bikes for free and pay pennies for short trips on last-gen bikes.
|
| So if I pay $1000 for a Roadster V2, what exactly am I getting?
| Sure, Citibike can be inconvenient: sometimes I won't find a good
| bike and sometimes I won't be able to park. For this, I'm not
| sure it's worth paying the prize.
|
| Having my own bike also exposes me to risk of theft and having to
| carry it in and out of my apartment (I don't currently have bike
| storage in my building). Hence, it seems like I've already found
| my optimal solution.
| itsagavin wrote:
| Anecdotally it seems like these things are causing a crazy amount
| of head injuries. I get all the tales from the ICU at the dinner
| table and if I had kids I don't know if I would even let them
| hang out with another kid if they had an ebike. They seem super
| cool and I always stop to watch someone zoom buy but I can't help
| but notice that a lot of the people on ebikes shouldn't be going
| that fast and aren't built to take a spill.
| daveoc64 wrote:
| What are "these things"?
|
| Are you talking about something with a throttle?
|
| In the EU (and still the UK), anything with a throttle is
| treated like a motorcycle - it needs licence plates, tax,
| insurance and a driving licence. A child would therefore not be
| able to ride one. You also can't ride them on bike paths or
| lanes.
|
| A pedelec on the other hand, which is what "ebike" usually
| refers to, still requires pedalling and can only offer motor
| assistance up to 15.5 MPH - these can be used wherever bicycles
| can and by anyone, and have no legal requirements to use.
|
| I understand that the US doesn't really regulate non-standard
| vehicles, but it does seem to me like a child shouldn't be
| using something with a throttle.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec#Legal_status_of_pedele...
| jeffbee wrote:
| I don't think this can be ignored. The bulk of ebike injuries
| to children are coming from throttle-having class 2 bikes and
| in my view these should simply be outlawed. I've seen people
| crash then who clearly thought they were stopping, but who were
| holding the throttle. They were riding a motorcycle without
| motorcycle training. Torque-assist pedal systems are perfectly
| intuitive to anyone who knows how to ride a regular bike. The
| power isn't the problem, it's the human interface.
| readingistuff wrote:
| You also need a higher quality, impact rated helmet. I'm sure
| plenty of folks buy am expensive bike and the cheapest
| helmet.
| analog31 wrote:
| This could be a new market. Presently, there's no
| motorsport rated bike helmet. You can buy a motorcycle
| helmet, but it's a heavy, cumbersome beast. Or a bike
| helmet that comes with virtually no useful rating system
| except for the Virginia Tech rating program.
| anotherboffin wrote:
| NTA 8776 spec-rated helmets are built to withstand more
| forces than "regular" bike helmets. IIRC they are
| required in certain EU countries when riding an S-Pedelec
| (45 km/h limit pedal assist e-bike)
| mtmail wrote:
| https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-
| ratings.html
|
| Freeride/Enduro/Downhill helmets exist
| (https://mountainbikeguys.com/downhill-helmet/) but
| nobody has come up with a rating yet afaik. I own one,
| and it probably saved my life at least once, but can
| understand how nobody wants to wear one outside a
| downhill bike park.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > The bulk of ebike injuries to children are coming from
| throttle-having class 2 bikes and in my view these should
| simply be outlawed
|
| Huh, I always thought that virtually everywhere treated these
| the same as motorbikes (ie you need a license, insurance
| etc).
| jeffbee wrote:
| I've never heard of any place that required a license for
| any of the 3 formal electric bike classifications. If you
| need a motorcycle license that is because the thing you
| intend to ride is, in fact, a motorcycle.
|
| The bike featured in the article, a BESV PSA1, is
| considered a "class 1" machine under the most common
| framework. It has a low-power motor, pedal assist, and no
| throttle. I am not aware of any place that requires
| licenses or insurance for such a bike.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Oh, yep, I was talking about bikes with throttles. The
| bike in the article should be fine basically everywhere.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Unlike a motorcycle, if you engage the brake on an ebike, the
| motor is completely disabled in every model I've ever seen.
|
| You can hold the throttle wide open, and it won't matter if
| any amount of brake is applied.
|
| E-bikes just aren't that dangerous, especially compared to a
| full power motor vehicle. I suspect that the bulk of injuries
| to children on e-bikes are happening in throttle models
| because those are cheaper models. You don't buy your kid a
| $5k mid drive ebike when you can get a $1k rear drive one.
| Mid drives are physically unable to have throttle, whereas
| rear drive bikes almost universally have them.
|
| If you are truly interested in saving children from injuries,
| the best thing we could do is put speed and power limits on
| cars. Speeding cars maim, kill, and injure several orders of
| magnitude more children than e-bikes.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Rad brand bikes with hydraulic brakes do not integrate the
| brake lever with the motor controller. Even on the ones you
| mention, that integrate the brake and motor controller,
| it's still possible to come to a stop, release the brake
| lever, and then take off unintentionally into cross traffic
| because you were holding the throttle open the entire time.
| It's a bad interface.
|
| Total agreement on the other part but the injuries I'm
| hearing about have been kids riding their class-2 e-bikes
| into fixed objects, not crashing with cars.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Huh. I wonder if this was an early model thing. My 2020
| Rad has a throttle disconnect on both brakes and the rad
| parts and instructions for those parts include the brake
| sensor. The brake handle sensor on mine also operates a
| brake light. On the mechanical disc brake rad that I have
| they even go so far as to disable the brake lever
| adjustment by putting a warning sticker over it to ensure
| that you don't adjust it out of range of the limit
| switch.
|
| https://support.radpowerbikes.com/hc/en-
| us/articles/44061799...
| dicriseg wrote:
| The newer Rad bikes have hydraulic brakes - the older
| ones (like my City 3) had cable brakes with the
| integrated motor cutoff.
|
| I upgraded to hydraulic brakes and wanted to keep the
| motor cutoff - it was hard to find levers with the
| integrated switch. I ended up with a kit using XOD
| brakes, which have the integrated cutoff and are
| otherwise just fine. I did, however, toss their included
| brake pads after a bit of riding and replaced them with
| Tektro P20.11 metal/ceramic pads, and those made a huge
| difference. That and bleeding the brakes properly.
| gnicholas wrote:
| > _E-bikes just aren't that dangerous, especially compared
| to a full power motor vehicle._
|
| Sure, but we don't let children drive full power motor
| vehicles (except older teenagers after passing a test, and
| obtaining liability insurance).
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| And yet, full power motor vehicles kill thousands of
| children, while e-bikes kill single digit numbers of
| children.
|
| If your argument is "somebody think of the children" then
| you have to consider that any child in the US is far,
| far, far more likely to be maimed or killed by a car
| while on their bike, then by their bike while on the
| bike.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Of course motor vehicles kill more children -- there are
| orders of magnitude more of them. No one is crying "think
| of the children". We are just discussing whether it is
| wise for children to use these vehicles, which types are
| more/less safe for children, etc. Injury comparisons with
| motor vehicles they cannot legally drive, and which are
| in much, much greater supply, are simply not relevant.
| Show me a stat that looks at deaths per million miles
| driven, and I'm all ears.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| My original comment was in response to a suggestion of
| banning an entire category of already regulated e-bikes
| purely for the sake of children, hence the "somebody
| think of the children"
|
| If we are going to ban a category of vehicle for the sake
| of children based on injuries to children, then the
| logical vehicle to ban is the one that isn't already
| speed and power limited.
|
| My position is that it doesn't matter if the kid is
| driving cars or not, if large, multi ton, unlimited
| speed, unlimited power vehicles (cars) are what is
| killing kids by the thousands, then why are we suggesting
| banning something which just isn't as dangerous in an
| absolute sense.
|
| If you want to compare motor vehicles to bicycles, then
| let's add in trains, planes and ferries. And why miles
| driven and not time spent traveling. There's a million
| ways to slice this, but there is no getting around the
| fact that if your kid dies in a vehicle accident, it's
| almost always going to be a car.
|
| By those measures we should get rid of bikes AND cars and
| stick to public transportation options.
|
| I already think that e-bikes are over-regulated so I push
| back hard on reactive arguments like the GP. To ride
| legally I have to limit myself to 2/3 HP (500 watts)
| regardless of vehicle and rider weight, go no faster than
| 32kph, ride on road lanes where the other vehicles travel
| at 2x-3x my speed, wear PPE, have government approved
| lighting and reflectors, etc.
|
| These things are already massively regulated in ways that
| limit their actual utility without necessarily helping
| safety. We don't need to ban them outright because
| parents allow their children to do stupid shit on them,
| or adults are riding them without the proper skills. We
| don't suggest banning things like downhill mountain bikes
| even though children ride them, and they are far more
| dangerous to use as intended than e-bikes.
| jeffbee wrote:
| > purely for the sake of children.
|
| That's not what I said. I think e-bikes with throttles
| are too dangerous to be on the market for any buyer. It
| is a bad, dangerous human-machine interface. There is a
| reason that the big e-bike brands do not offer them.
| Yamaha doesn't. Specialized doesn't. Trek doesn't. It is
| a proper use of consumer safety regulatory powers to set
| requirements for the controls on a dangerous machine.
| Without them, you just get a race to the bottom.
| CubsFan1060 wrote:
| I don't think your statement about mid drives is correct.
|
| There are some (a small amount) that support throttle. For
| example:
| https://bafangusadirect.com/products/bafang-1000w-bbshd-
| mid-...
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| True. There are a few models of hardware that allow it
| with a special front freewheel attachment, but generally
| speaking mid drive bikes are 1. Vastly More expensive 2.
| Almost never have a throttle only mode.
| acover wrote:
| Another solution: use an age limit rather than ban.
| Motorcycles are dangerous but I'm still allowed to use them.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The person I saw crash the ebike was a full grown adult
| woman. She needed training, not more years of life.
| acover wrote:
| Training doesn't make bikes safe, especially when driving
| near cars.
| thrown1212 wrote:
| It makes them safer, including when driving near cars.
| Lobby for no training if you want but don't pretend like
| it doesn't help.
| acover wrote:
| Do you have evidence it helps? What course?
|
| Obviously more training can help. For example it would be
| useful to practice riding in the rain, ice, and wet
| leaves. But at what point does more training not help?
| When will you be safe?
|
| Riding a bike next to cars is inherently unsafe. When a
| car hits you, you are ducked. There's a limit to how
| vigilant you can be and most riders accept it's a when
| and not an if.
|
| Note motorcycles have mandatory training but still have
| 10x the death rate.
| the_snooze wrote:
| > Depending on which country you live in top speeds will differ.
| In Japan the bike's are capped at 24km/h. In America, 32km/h.
| Some places only allow for pedal-assist -- meaning the motor only
| works when pedaling. Others allow throttles, blurring the line
| between bike and scooter.
|
| I'm lucky enough to live somewhere that I use a regular human-
| powered bike for my workweek commute. I think pedal-assist
| e-bikes are great for making this accessible to more people. But
| I've seen too many Class 3 throttle-equipped e-bikes (really,
| motorcycles) blasting by on mixed-use trails to want stricter
| regulations on what counts as a bike.
| atahanacar wrote:
| >pedal-assist e-bikes are great for making this accessible to
| more people
|
| They also make every excuse against bike infrastructure
| invalid.
| [deleted]
| analog31 wrote:
| I've been cycling for 50+ years, and bike advocacy predates
| e-bikes by decades. I'm guilty myself. But I try not to oversell
| cycling as a universal solution to transportation, because it
| isn't. I also don't promise people that it will change their
| lives. Getting them on a bike at all is enough of a hurdle. These
| days, I advocate e-bikes, though I don't own one myself, because
| I figure the people who will ride a conventional bike are already
| doing so.
| rcpt wrote:
| Greatest thing about bikes, and this still applies to ebikes, is
| that you actually experience and participate in the city you live
| in. You learn the small roads, you see other people and they see
| you, you spot tiny businesses and interesting parks.
|
| I lived in Los Angeles without a car for a few years. I often met
| people who lived here much longer but knew almost nothing about
| the local area despite having intimate knowledge of freeway off
| ramps. Cars are just so isolating. It's no wonder we see so much
| unhinged antisocial behavior from drivers.
| juujian wrote:
| > you actually experience and participate in the city you live
| in. You learn the small roads, you see other people and they
| see you, you spot tiny businesses and interesting parks.
|
| And you get cussed out by either drivers or pedestrians,
| because street design pits you against either one or the
| other...
| globular-toast wrote:
| I know people who can't get around without a car with GPS
| navigation. They do not know the way to the shops or their
| friends' houses.
|
| It's interesting to me that road rage is non-existent between
| cyclists and pedestrians. It seems to be a manifestation of the
| frustration of being reduced to a metal box with a monotone
| horn, a couple of lights and the ability to go forwards and
| backwards. On a bike you're still a person.
| hooverd wrote:
| Check out bike YouTuber ZeroEnigna. The man does nothing but
| road rage at pedestrians.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| If you are a tourist in a Dutch city you will quickly be
| disabused of the notion that there is no road rage between
| pedestrians and cyclists. Do not ever idly wander into a
| Dutch cycle lane, at any cost. You will be treated as
| invisible, people will cycle straight through you.
|
| Should they for some reason take notice of you, they will not
| slow down one bit, but swerve away imperceptibly,
| infinitesimally, from a collision, thus making sure you are
| sufficiently rattled by the encounter.
| rcpt wrote:
| That sounds pretty tame compared to US road rage.
|
| It's what I'd expect by default when riding a bike on a
| fast street and it wouldn't even occur to me to call it
| "road rage"
| nerdbert wrote:
| As someone who bikes in the touristiest Dutch city of them
| all, we aren't going to hit you.
|
| It is possible to do something so monumentally stupid as a
| pedestrian that you get hit and nobody could have helped
| you. That thing is to start crossing a bike path and then
| suddenly go backwards because you got scared.
|
| As long as you don't do that, you'll be fine.
|
| And the cyclists aren't nearly as annoyed by pedestrians as
| they are by mopeds.
| starkparker wrote:
| As a novice cyclist I've been the target of angry exchanges
| with other cyclists on urban bikeways where pedestrians and
| cars are prohibited, because I go too slow, or get spooked by
| someone passing too close, or because someone cuts me off.
| It's not utopia, humans are still involved.
| kookdonk wrote:
| I have the opposite experience actually - majority of road
| "rage" incidents, which have only been contained to near
| misses or yelling, have been with pedestrians. Bike paths are
| ignored by pedestrians, they'll walk right in or through
| them, even when they look and see a bike coming. Pedestrians
| think they always have the right of way, and its very
| dangerous. This is in an American city though, btw,
| reflecting American city culture.
| beebmam wrote:
| If by "experience and participate" you mean "get hit by a
| negligent car", then yes, I agree. I'll never ride a bicycle
| again until my city is serious about cyclist safety.
| johannes1234321 wrote:
| And your city won't get serious, as long as nobody is needing
| it ...
| miketery wrote:
| What city are you in? It will get better if more and more
| people ride.
| carrozo wrote:
| "Riding a bike is one of the few activities left to modern man
| that gives the experience of operating a contraption, rather than
| a gadget or a gizmo"
|
| https://twitter.com/boltzmannbooty/status/142692847167091917...
| lacrimacida wrote:
| Im in love with my EUC - electric unicycle. The learning curve is
| steepish only for the first half hour then tops off in about a
| couple of hours training. Pros: hands are free to carry items,
| it's fun to ride, easier than walking after a few days of
| training. Good for training a good posture. Cons: lack of
| physical exertion, you're basically standing on a floating
| platform with a wheel in the middle. All in all I highly
| recommend it for running errands or just pure fun.
|
| Another pro is that it's so small you can easily take it indoors
| so no risk of them getting stolen.
| zwilliamson wrote:
| I have owned a Riese and Muller Load 60 (bucket cargo bike) for
| over 3 years now. It is the love of my life. My dog rides with me
| everywhere. Living the good life. So simple but so satisfying.
|
| I have the same exact feeling every time I ride my cargo bike as
| I did the first day I rode it. An exciting open to the world
| feeling. It has never wore off. It allowed me to really
| experience the cities I've lived in.
| YarickR2 wrote:
| I can wax poetic the same about my cars; what's the point ?
| dermesser wrote:
| Go ahead then, we'll read it if it's poetic enough!
| sottol wrote:
| I like Craig Mod's writing style. The last product he praised
| that I've also seen posted here on HN was the Leica Q... I still
| want it. (Still too expensive to justify)
| foobarbazetc wrote:
| True. Biking is the best thing ever (also extremely expensive).
|
| I spent a ridiculous amount on a Gazelle HMB 380+. It's so much
| fun to ride. Every component is top quality. No maintenance
| issues ever.
|
| Recently got a carbon fiber road bike from a Taiwanese factory.
| Just as fun. Weighs 7.9kg.
|
| I will say when I tested the VanMoof I hated everything about it.
| The automatic shifter is extremely counterintuitive. The parts
| suck, a lot.
|
| Shimano hydraulic disc breaks are pretty much set it and forget
| it type things, so I personally wouldn't form an opinion of the
| quality of disc breaks based on the VanMoof.
| notthemessiah wrote:
| Most people seem to complain about the weather or humidity. I
| find that riding on a busy street, the noxious automobile
| emissions are the biggest source of displeasure when I'm
| physically exerting myself (breathing faster just makes me inhale
| more of the fumes). This is what the e-bike has freed me most of.
| That and being able to accelerate faster than my muscles can has
| enabled me to keep up with motor traffic.
|
| That said, most of these points would be moot if the US had
| dedicated bike lanes separate from automobile traffic.
| mulmen wrote:
| I'm glad Americans are (re-)discovering the motorcycle. It's like
| the 1960s all over again. But this time instead of Hondas it's
| e-bikes. I just hope they take a safety class and stay on the
| road where they belong.
| nicbou wrote:
| I have a motorcycle and a bicycle. They're not comparable.
|
| After riding my motorcycle in almost every European and Central
| Asian country, I'm about to sell it because every nice
| motorcycle day is a better bicycle day.
|
| My motorcycle is stuck on the road. I can ride my bicycle to
| the lake and back along nice trails. All of my friends have
| bicycles, so they can come too.
|
| I can also ride my bicycle wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and
| not lug a helmet around all day. I don't need thousands of
| euros worth of heavy, hot equipment. I don't need ear plugs
| that still leave me with tinnitus. I don't pay insurance or
| plates. I don't worry about inspections every other year or oil
| changes or tired. I need only five tools to fix everything
| myself, and it's dirt cheap.
|
| I'm over my motorcycle phase, but I'll ride a bicycle until I'm
| physically unable to.
| mulmen wrote:
| So do I. I have ridden both. Class 3 e-bikes are mopeds at a
| minimum. I see them on mixed use bike paths daily, going
| 20mph or more.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I was literally just on a bike/walk trail in seattle on my
| e-bike, probably going about 15mph and a non-e-bike blew
| past me like I was standing still. I'd guess he was
| clocking around 30mph. While e-bikes certainly can
| contribute to a problem of unsafe biking on a trail, they
| are not the only source of that problem.
| mulmen wrote:
| Yes but I see a lot more e-bikes doing that than
| conventional cyclists. I attribute it to the very thing
| that is beneficial about e-bikes. They attract people who
| don't otherwise ride bikes. At least in my neighborhood
| (Alki) the fast cyclists stick to the road.
|
| The scooters are the real menace. I see more mishaps on
| those than anything else.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Same. I prefer riding my ebike to work. The portability is
| great. It means I can just take it with me into the office
| instead of having to park it somewhere.
|
| E-bikes and scooters are the future of city transportation
| for the able. I love them.
| mulmen wrote:
| > It means I can just take it with me into the office
| instead of having to park it somewhere.
|
| I'm glad that works for you. This is explicitly forbidden
| in my office, for good reason. It takes up a ton of space
| in the elevators and there's not much space in the office
| to store it. In the winter it would create a muddy,
| slippery mess. Most places I have worked have a bike locker
| for this reason.
| johnwatson11218 wrote:
| I have had three eBikes and I have no doubt they are the future.
| They are where the internet was in the 90s. My electric mountain
| bike has been wonderful but all the normal parts like gears,
| brakes, and tires wear out much faster. One of my local bike
| shops has allowed me to trade in bikes towards the purchase of
| even better bikes and that helped shape my experience. If I were
| going to get a new one today it would most likely be the surly
| skid loader.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| It amazes me how little attention e-bikes are given in terms of
| reducing traffic, pollution, CO2 etc. The BBC is especially bad
| at this - they promote lots of articles singing the praises of
| electric vehicles (i.e. cars) and almost never mention e-bikes as
| being far better for a lot of use cases.
|
| It also grinds my gears that there's tax breaks for getting
| e-cars and nothing for getting e-bikes. It's almost as if
| politicians are employed by car manufacturers.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I love my e-bike (and feel like I have to point that out in
| threads like this), but while the use cases for them are many,
| they do not realistically replace ICE cars for most people.
| They just don't. People with families need cars, and would
| never forego owning one (or two, or even three) of them just
| because they have the option of riding electric bikes. That's
| why electric and hybrid electric cars remain a big deal.
| prmoustache wrote:
| You can ride in families. I can even take your kids on the
| bike, especially with assistance.
| MrJohz wrote:
| Living in a city in Germany, a lot of families cycle with
| their children. Typically babies and young children have a
| seat on the handlebars or in a small trailer on the back,
| older children either have a tandem-style attachment or their
| own bike. The various attachments are typically fairly
| generic, so should work for both regular and electric bikes.
|
| You can also buy (or rent) tricycle-style bikes that have a
| large space at the front to carry heavier loads - children,
| pets, or just shopping. I assume there are electric versions
| of these as well.
|
| In fairness, most of this assumes that the city is reasonably
| bike accessible, mainly in terms of having all the necessary
| amenities within a cycle ride from home. If you live in
| suburbs, this may not be as possible. But I think that says
| more about the inadequacy of poorly planned cities than that
| of electric bikes.
| turdprincess wrote:
| Replacing the car completely is unrealistic. Replacing a
| second car - totally possible. The folks who are buying
| electric cars are often buying it as a second car anyways
| since they still need the ICE car for bigger trips. Those
| folks could probably get by with one ICE car and a couple of
| e-bikes, which would be cheaper, healthier and more fun.
| MrJohz wrote:
| The other side of this is the potential for car-sharing,
| reducing the total number of cars around, but allowing
| people to still make more infrequent journeys by car when
| that's necessary (or just easier). If your bike is enough
| for all your regular weekly journeys, you can rent a car
| for holidays, or visiting friends and family further away.
| zdragnar wrote:
| I would love to get some e-bikes for my family. However,
| they're not terribly useful aside from recreation for us. We
| don't live in an urban or even suburban area.
|
| Bikes are a local thing. If the weather is too hot, or cold, or
| wet, or snowy, you're out of luck.
|
| Cars appeal nationwide. They'll get you hundreds of miles,
| comfortably, between remote destinations that aren't served by
| public transport or airports.
|
| Or, they'll help you get groceries for the whole family.
|
| If you think your area would be better off if tax breaks went
| to e-bikes, write your city and state governments. Depending on
| where you live, they're already taking upwards of 10% or more
| of your income, plus taxing the goods you buy and the land you
| live on.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| They're of course not the solution for _every_ transportation
| need, especially if you live out in the middle of nowhere,
| but two things:
|
| > If the weather is too hot, or cold, or wet, or snowy,
| you're out of luck.
|
| I really don't think the weather is as much of a barrier as
| it's often made out to be. The Netherlands is famously windy
| and rainy and Oulu, Finland has snow 5 months out of the
| year, but nevertheless lots of people cycle in both places.
|
| But yes, if your bike lanes and paths are unmaintained (or
| worse, have all the street's snow plowed into them) it won't
| be attractive to cycle in the winter. That's a question of
| infrastructure and priorities though, it's not the weather
| alone.
|
| > Or, they'll help you get groceries for the whole family.
|
| I ride an Urban Arrow Family, and it works fine for bringing
| home lots of groceries.
| zdragnar wrote:
| > I really don't think the weather is as much of a barrier
| as it's often made out to be.
|
| I'm not making some wild guess, I'm going based on
| observations of riders in the nearby metro where I once
| lived. Bike usage plummets twice a year- very few people
| want to deal with -40 wind chills or have a shower at work
| after biking in 90F/33c sun.
|
| Hence, my argument that e-bikes tax breaks make more sense
| at local levels than they do broadly applied.
| ben-schaaf wrote:
| What metro is it and does the dedicated bike
| infrastructure get plowed and otherwise well maintained
| in the winter? Oulu's record low is < -40C and they don't
| observe much of a decrease in cycling until around -20C.
|
| Hot days aren't an issue for ebikes until you get to
| extreme temperatures. I've found it to be much better
| than walking; I'd sweat more waiting for my car to cool
| down. This is in Sydney, up to 40C and fairly humid.
| swader999 wrote:
| More than 10cm of snow is a show stopper and that only
| happens a few times a year, most work from home anyway on
| those days. Studded tires, poggies for your handle bars.
| Cheap heated 5volt USB vest and pants wired into your
| battery pack is an option if inclined.
| vel0city wrote:
| > I really don't think the weather is as much of a barrier
| as it's often made out to be.
|
| Extremely variable based on local climate. I'll take
| cycling in a 68F rainstorm or the snow compared to 98F at
| 76% relative humidity.
| readingistuff wrote:
| I live in Seattle, and it's really pretty easy to get a
| shell for rain and cold. Or shorts for heat.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Seattle has a very temperate climate (relatively
| speaking) so the last paragraph of my post applies quite
| well there.
| mjmsmith wrote:
| For most of the of the country, I don't think heat is that
| much of a problem. You're not pedaling hard and you have a
| steady breeze at 15+ mph. I ride electric Citibikes in NYC
| all summer where it's often in the 90s with high humidity.
| swader999 wrote:
| I moved rural a decade ago and it's the only reason I miss
| the city. I turned my ebike into a rope tow for the kids:
| https://youtu.be/KSyzwj-Faxw
| Renaud wrote:
| In France, many cities and regions offer non-negligible
| subsidies to locals wanting to purchase an e-bikes (I think it
| also works for regular bikes).
|
| These schemes have boosted the adoption of e-bikes and most
| cities, big and small, have been playing catch-up to provide
| bike lanes in and around city centres.
|
| Currently travelling across France along canals and rivers and
| the network is pretty extensive all over the country. It's
| basically the same story all over Europe (and the UK), with
| varying degrees of coverage.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Here in the UK, I gaze longingly over the Channel at France
| and their promotion of cycling, especially in Paris.
| dazc wrote:
| Cheeky
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I'd like to be able to legally RLJ as in Paris:
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33773868
| criddell wrote:
| > nothing for getting e-bikes
|
| Where I live in Texas there's a $800 rebate for e-bikes.
| blamazon wrote:
| Social researchers have dubbed this phenomenon
| "motonormativity"[1] and it is remarkably powerful.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/17/motonormativit...
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Also disparagingly known as car-brain.
| blamazon wrote:
| Perhaps to defuse the denigrative aspect of the term we
| should think of it as analogous to the 'lizard brain' as
| not a disease but something of an interior module we all
| have within us - on a day to day basis most people can
| generally introspect on the contributions of the lizard
| brain to our thoughts and feelings[1] , why not should we
| similarly introspect on the car brain and think on a
| similarly higher order level?
|
| [1] Tangential reading: 'Why Buddhism is True' by Robert
| Wight:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Buddhism_Is_True
|
| https://www.npr.org/transcripts/541610511
| kfarr wrote:
| Agreed, and it comes to life when you ask anyone guess the most
| popular electric vehicle. It's not a tesla, it's an ebike. The
| good news is that even without mainstream press e-bikes are
| significantly outselling electric cars
| alsuren wrote:
| > tax breaks for getting e-cars and nothing for getting e-bikes
|
| Cycle to work schemes let you buy a bike before income tax. I'm
| not sure how that compares to e-car tax breaks though.
|
| All your employer if they have such a scheme.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| The Cycle-to-Work scheme as I remember it is problematic in
| that you're not buying the bike, but virtually leasing it
| from your employer for a period of time (1 year?) and you
| hope that your employer will give the bike to you at the end
| of that period. The problems are that your employer might not
| want the extra hassle involved of potentially owning unwanted
| bikes (my employer has no interest in the scheme) and also
| the last time that I checked, the tax break was on only the
| first PS1000.
|
| (I'm not looking to buy an e-bike as I'm more of an acoustic
| cyclist)
| chriswarbo wrote:
| > The Cycle-to-Work scheme as I remember it is problematic
| in that you're not buying the bike, but virtually leasing
| it from your employer for a period of time (1 year?)
|
| That's just a technicality, I assume to make it comply with
| other laws about using company money to buy personal items.
| Payments are deducted from your pre-tax earnings each
| month, so the saving come from paying less income tax; you
| can't give the company a wad of cash up-front, or have it
| all come out of one month's salary.
|
| > you hope that your employer will give the bike to you at
| the end of that period
|
| They will always give you the bike: Cycle to Work schemes
| are offered as an employee benefit, the company doesn't
| want the bike. More important is what happens if you leave
| the company before that period; e.g. when a previous
| employer folded I had some some balance remaining to pay
| (around PS500), which was deducted from my redundancy
| payment.
|
| > The problems are that your employer might not want the
| extra hassle involved of potentially owning unwanted bikes
| (my employer has no interest in the scheme)
|
| That's certainly true, and probably the main reason to
| avoid it (as an employer). Still, it's not much different
| to having surplus office furniture; at the higher-end, I
| imagine it's similar to an employee requiring some
| specialist desk chair, which the company can sell off
| afterwards.
|
| > he last time that I checked, the tax break was on only
| the first PS1000.
|
| It varies per employer, e.g. I got one up to PS1500. More
| annoying is that it must cover the full price: e.g. you
| can't pay PS100 cash to get a PS1600 ebike (although some
| sellers may fiddle the price tag to get around this!)
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| > It varies per employer, e.g. I got one up to PS1500.
| More annoying is that it must cover the full price: e.g.
| you can't pay PS100 cash to get a PS1600 ebike (although
| some sellers may fiddle the price tag to get around
| this!)
|
| The only time I used cycle-to-work was many years ago, so
| I might have misremembered. However, I've heard that
| current schemes tend to just give out vouchers that can
| be used in certain bike shops (e.g. Halfords) on bikes
| and bike accessories and can be used in part payment for
| bikes. To be honest, increasing the price limit only
| really helps people who already committed cyclists, so
| maybe it's at a fair level.
| dazc wrote:
| It's a tax break which is 100% not enforced. You don't even
| have to actually cycle to work.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I think it would make more sense to reduce or remove VAT
| from bikes and cycling accessories instead. Far less
| paperwork and it would immediately open the benefits to
| everyone rather than being targetted towards the MAMIL
| (MAWIL?) segment though I consider myself a MAMIL.
| bluescrn wrote:
| Unless bike theft is solved, an e-bike will remain a toy for
| the weekends for most people. An expensive e-bike is a prime
| target to thieves.
|
| They require a secure indoor storage space at both ends of the
| any journey, and many potential users lack that, either at
| their workplace or their home (e.g living in an apartment only
| accessible via stairs)
| [deleted]
| globular-toast wrote:
| It seems pretty simple to replace one car parking space with
| secure parking for five or so bicycles. Just need to
| massively reduce spending on car infrastructure and other
| subsidies for cars and reallocate the money to bicycles
| instead.
| wpietri wrote:
| A big reason cars don't require secure storage is better
| policing. Here in San Francisco there's been a lot of talk
| about how the SFPD these days isn't taking theft from cars
| and theft of catalytic converters very seriously. They aren't
| wrong; the SFPD seems pretty slack to me.
|
| But what they're missing is that the SFPD has always been
| like this _for bicycles_. A while back I had only locked my
| front wheel and my frame, so some dedicated thief stole the
| back wheel. I walked in to the nearest police station with
| the remains of my bike. The cop on the desk asked why I was
| there. "To report a crime," said I, holding up the bike. He
| looked befuddled, asking if I needed it for an insurance
| report or something. "No, I thought that the police might
| want to know about a crime." He shrugged and took the report,
| but clearly did not give a shit.
|
| If cops took bike theft as seriously as car theft (which they
| should given that in both cases it can be somebody's primary
| transportation) I think we'd see a lot more e-bike usage.
| wccrawford wrote:
| I don't know what my local police are like for bike theft,
| but given how poorly they handle theft from inside cars, I
| have no hope that they can do anything about any kind of
| theft, ever. They even had a security camera video of the
| person, knew who it was, and even where they frequently
| are, but flat-out told us they weren't going to do anything
| because it was pointless and they'd just be back at it
| soon.
|
| We weren't missing much from that theft, but some of our
| neighbors _were_.
|
| And so it is extremely unlikely that I'd leave my cheap
| bike anywhere, let alone my electric bike or scooter, no
| matter how well-locked it was. It 100% goes with me, or I
| don't take it at all.
| DANmode wrote:
| Name and shame the region.
| wpietri wrote:
| Wow! With a police attitude like that, the criminal will
| definitely "be back at it soon".
| blamazon wrote:
| Cars once upon a time required a secure storage space for
| security. Technology improved, comprehensive insurance became
| a social norm, etc, and now you can just snug it against a
| curb, hop out of your car and press a button and generally
| not worry about theft, but if it does happen you're covered.
|
| Why can't e-bikes be this way? My answer: they can and are,
| just not all of them yet.
| c22 wrote:
| I put a two-way car alarm on my ebike and it works exactly
| like this.
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| Car theft, at this point, is mostly a law enforcement
| issue. A very active, motivated anti-theft team can shut
| down theft rings and at least keep it down to a dull roar,
| versus almost total negligence in cities like San
| Francisco.
|
| I'm particularly fond of theft magnets, very attractive
| stealable cars equipped with cameras and remote shutdown
| and a team watching from a distance. Park it at a mall or
| on some side street, wait for the trap to be sprung, and
| poof! One less thief on the loose.
|
| Bikes, not so sure. A good U-lock and a plastic-coated
| cable are a start, but these can be defeated within a
| minute by a professional.
|
| I just heard on one of the YT China channels that people
| are indeed taking their batteries with them when they park
| their bikes, not so much out of fear of common theft, but
| because the police are empowered to confiscate e-bikes for
| a variety of infractions and it's almost impossible to get
| them back.
| wpietri wrote:
| Bait bikes are also a thing. E.g.:
| https://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/09/irvine-orange-and-
| othe...
|
| I also saw Mark Rober speak yesterday, I think with Allen
| Pan. He mentioned doing some sort of video where they
| built bait bikes and used them to sucker thieves. And I
| think Rober said they are doing another bike theft
| project where they'll be trying to trace things to the
| higher ups.
|
| So I think the lack here is more that of a motivated
| anti-theft team. But motivation may be hard to come by.
| Not only are bike thefts notoriously low priority, only
| 21.5% of SFPD officers actually live in SF:
| https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sf-police-firefighters-
| supe...
|
| Quality of life crimes matter a lot less when it's not
| your quality of life.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| All bikes are like that today. Just put it on your renters
| or homeowners insurance.
| bluescrn wrote:
| Car theft is rather more policed because a 2-ton 100mph+
| car can easily kill or cause a lot of damage in the wrong
| hands.
|
| Bike theft is down there with shoplifting or recreational
| drug use when it comes to policing priorities. But when a
| bike is stolen, often a person is losing an important means
| of transportation, so perhaps it should be taken more
| seriously.
|
| Not going to happen in a 'soft on crime' society, though.
| blamazon wrote:
| I propose, somewhat tautologically, that the primary
| reason why car theft is generally well policed (in USA,
| where my lived experiences have primarily been) is that
| it's generally a small enough problem for most police
| departments to get their arms around because of basic
| anti theft technology.
|
| I believe the Kia/Hyundai debacle of the last few years
| supports this idea:
|
| > So far this year, Minneapolis police have received
| 1,899 Kia and Hyundai theft reports, nearly 18 times the
| number for the same period in 2022. [1]
|
| [1]: https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-tiktok-theft-
| stolen-8...
| wpietri wrote:
| I don't think this is a "soft on crime" question. As you
| say, bikes are a low priority. But bikes were long
| considered a low priority in things like road design. The
| lack of bike lanes isn't getting better because people
| are getting tougher on crime. It's because we're getting
| rid of some of the classist nonsense that treats people
| able to afford cars as more important than those who
| couldn't. And also because bike commuting has become a
| middle- and upper-class phenomenon.
| analog31 wrote:
| It may be that car theft is more policed because of
| political pressure from insurance companies, and because
| cars were typically more valuable than bikes.
|
| Fighting car theft lowers insurance rates. But virtually
| nobody insures a bike.
| blamazon wrote:
| I would also imagine most police officers in USA patrol
| their jurisdiction in automobiles, not on bicycles.
| Number 2 is probably motorcycles.
|
| I would also venture to guess that most officers don't
| cycle to work or in their free time.
| analog31 wrote:
| Indeed, but their priorities are set by their departments
| and cities.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| Technology improved, but cars one main advantage. To steal
| a 4000lbs car one needs either a tow truck, or to enable
| the engine, or a lot of guys to push.
|
| To steal a 15 lbs bicycle, one need only pick it up and
| walk away.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Same issue with motorcycles and people just buy
| insurance, which you can do with bikes too.
| vel0city wrote:
| I can pick up a bicycle and walk away with very little
| effort. They're usually less than 20lbs.
|
| My motorcycle is 500lbs wet. Close to 700 with full
| cases.
|
| Are you really suggesting it's just as easy stealing a
| 500-700lb bike as a 20lb bike?
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| For most bikes and mopeds two guys and a truck is all you
| need to steal it. If you can lean it up after laying it
| out, theres probably a way for someone to leverage it
| onto a truck bed. Maybe just knocking it over onto a
| furniture dolly and pushing it up a ramp.
| vel0city wrote:
| That all sounds like a good bit more work than a single
| person with a bolt cutter.
|
| So you do agree with me, that it's a lot more work
| stealing a motorcycle than stealing a bicycle?
| DANmode wrote:
| Good ebikes are/will be 75-150lbs.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| wtf, no? How would a 150 lbs ebike even look like?
|
| That's an electric moped.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| rcpt wrote:
| E bikes are a lot heavier than 15 lbs
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I am reminded of this reddit post and it's picture https:
| //www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13og4mc/thats_one_...
| . Most e-bikes have a lock on the battery that can be
| toggled to cut out the motor, though I think it can still
| be pedaled, but this is why you always lock through the
| frame and the the back wheel...
| dukeyukey wrote:
| Still plenty carrayable by one person.
| bluGill wrote:
| 60 years ago it wasn't hard to hot wire a car. Car locks
| are very good, 20 years ago encryption was added so you
| can't start the car withour the authorized keys. Decades
| before that the lock was attached to the steering wheel
| so you couldn't drive even if you srarted.it. and car
| locks are hard to pick (unlike many house locks)
| abeppu wrote:
| ... btw, since we know how to make locks that are harder
| to pick, why _don't_ we use them basically everywhere
| including houses. Are they a lot more challenging to
| manufacture?
| grrdotcloud wrote:
| In a practical sense the lock is an indicator of limited
| access.
|
| The ability to gain entry is trivial given a few minutes
| and intent.
|
| The locks in my house are there so the glass has to be
| broken. The glass is there to give me enough time to
| respond.
|
| If someone is picking my lock they are involved in a hit,
| not theft.
| yardie wrote:
| Good question. My apartment in Europe had a steel plate
| door with a gargantuan lock that with 10 latch points. My
| apartment in the US has a cheap ~$30 commercial deadbolt
| you could defeat by pushing really hard. I looked at
| getting one of those locks and the price was
| astronomical.
| bluGill wrote:
| I'm not an expert, but my understanding it is about
| tolerance and quality control, both of which increase
| costs. It is rare for someone to pick a lock to get into
| a house so it isn't worth the costs.
|
| All locks can be picked, but it takes more skill for the
| better ones. Modern encryption is (so our math says,
| though i'm not sure what the limits are) essentially
| unbreakable, and so a better solution.
| vel0city wrote:
| I was working on adding a deadbolt to an exterior door. I
| started doing a lot of fine measurements to drill it out
| because I didn't want to crack the glass which was kind
| of close to the edge of the door.
|
| Which I then questioned what the hell am I doing adding a
| deadbolt to a door with a massive window. If someone
| wants to get in, they're gonna get in. The only thing
| that really keeps my family safe is the fact the vast
| majority of my neighbors don't want to hurt me, not some
| lock on my door.
| bluGill wrote:
| Actually it is probably easier to punch through the walls
| bypassing the door completely as opposed to breaking the
| glass. Though glass does break and so that is what
| someone will try.
| vel0city wrote:
| The vast majority of my exterior is brick, but the area
| in question is just vinyl siding so you're not entirely
| wrong. A few more layers to get through: the vinyl
| siding, foam backing on the vinyl, vapor barrier, old
| cellulose insulation, then interior wall.
|
| Just further shows the futility of putting an expensive
| lock on a regular home door. If someone wants in, they'll
| get in. The lock is definitely more of a "please don't
| come in" than anything real.
| creato wrote:
| When theft via lock picking becomes an issue, people will
| buy those locks. I doubt it will be an issue as long as
| bolt cutters and batter powered angle grinders exist.
| DANmode wrote:
| Many potential users can also take it the three miles to the
| corner store or grocery store in place of their SUV, and
| store it in the same garage.
|
| One thing at a time.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Bike theft is solved the same way car theft is solved. You
| merely insure the bike.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| That works if bike theft is a rare condition that strikes a
| few unlucky people. But if bike theft is really a chronic
| problem, insurance can't possibly cost less than buying a
| new bike every time it's stolen. Otherwise the insurance
| company would lose money.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| The insurance pool isnt just bikes. Renters insurance you
| are insured in the few hundred grand range if you really
| tallied up what is covered. A couple hundred dollar bike
| is hardly a dent in comparison to what the premiums are
| designed to potentially cover.
| swader999 wrote:
| Solved it by buying crappy police auction bikes, defective
| power tool battery packs off eBay and cheap hub motors from
| China. Make the bike look ugly take your home made soldiered
| pack with you when you park. $1500-4000 depending on how fast
| and how far you need to go. I can rearrange the packs and
| there isn't a bike that is faster, but 48 volts at about
| 50km/hr is the sweet spot for safety and practical commuting.
| Nobody is going to hassle you about an illegal bike if you
| don't ride like an idiot.
| [deleted]
| DaveExeter wrote:
| >defective power tool battery packs off eBay
|
| They have some good cells and some bad ones?
| swader999 wrote:
| Yes, I did this 15 years ago with the Dewalt A123 cells.
| Usually only one cell had failed. Betty you could still
| do the same.
| woleium wrote:
| police auctions of confiscated scooters, ones that folk
| abandon on the wrong place and get impounded are a great
| source of cells.
|
| hit up the homebrew powerwall forums for more sources.
| swader999 wrote:
| Brilliant!
| macintux wrote:
| My father took the "make it too ugly to steal" approach
| with his bicycle in college. Still got stolen.
| ez_mmk wrote:
| High quality locks prevent theft
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| The lock-picking lawyer on youtube may disagree.
| NoZebra120vClip wrote:
| The LPL is a highly-skilled picker; he has access to all
| the right tools; he practices a lot; he researches every
| lock before he starts the video.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The sales of e-bikes are not consistent with your statement.
| The market does not think this is a showstopper.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| Or you use a folding bike, where you just bring it with you.
| I put mine under my office desk.
| aBioGuy wrote:
| Unpopular (?) opinion: don't worry about theft. If you are
| making developer-money then a $1000-$3000 bike is a trivial
| amount of money. Just use a cafe-lock with a sturdy chain and
| go about your life. It gets stolen? Buy a new one. Seems
| silly to be hesitant on a eBike because of a theoretical
| concern. Finding an environment where you are reasonably safe
| from getting murdered by a vehicle should be your primary
| concern. Everything else is just noise.
| thfuran wrote:
| The average software engineer salary is about $110k in the
| US and about $55k in the UK. You're just living in some
| ridiculous bubble.
| triceratops wrote:
| I make developer money but that's just stupid. Sorry, no
| other word for it. $1000-3000 is absolutely not a "trivial
| amount of money" objectively. If I was going to lose that
| kind of money, I'd at least want to donate it so it could
| help someone in need.
| nosefurhairdo wrote:
| The author of this post specifically recommends stretching
| your budget for the best possible e-bike. By definition, if
| one stretched their budget for a thing it is nontrivial to
| replace that thing. Also, people are not robots. Even if
| you can afford to replace a thing there remains a
| psychological toll from theft.
| hughesjj wrote:
| They really don't, at least not in Seattle. I mean maybe if
| you're using cable locks yeah but the great thing about
| ebikes is that they have motors-- my big ass fuck off chain
| isn't a huge deal to carry around in the panier/basket, and
| it's easier to circular saw through my frame. You can also do
| the motorcycle integrated wheel locks, or spend like 30 bucks
| for one that gets set off by the vibrations caused by cutting
|
| Hell even if my bike got stolen every month it's still
| cheaper to just buy a new one than car ownership once you
| factor in gas and maintenence, let alone parking.
|
| I hate parking. Not paying for it, but finding a spot. It
| sucks. And I'd rather deal with someone taking something off
| my bike than smashing my window again.
|
| Idk man, I encourage anyone to give an ebike a try. They're
| fantastic.
| readingistuff wrote:
| I have a cargo e bike, I use it for everything from hardware
| store, to nursery, to Costco, to child transport. It's an
| incredibly versatile mode of transport and it's what I use
| for about half of my local travel now.
|
| With a heavy chain and a cafe lock, theft is pretty low on my
| list of concerns.
| treprinum wrote:
| What prevents anyone from using e.g. embedded Apple tags to
| monitor their bike whereabouts?
| bugglebeetle wrote:
| By the time the notification goes off, your bike is gone
| and the police largely do not care, unless it's a large-
| scale, thief-to-reseller ring. The only thing that really
| works is motorcycle locks and alarms, but the effective
| ones are pricey.
| Renaud wrote:
| I recently found these tiny Invoxia GPS trackers that use
| the LORA network to send their whereabouts.
|
| It's really tiny, like half a stick of gum but lasts weeks
| between charges. Sends a notification whenever the bike is
| moved and tracks location when it's on the move.
|
| Also hidden an Air Tag and added a rear-light that doubles
| as an alarm when the bike is moved.
|
| Still won't leave the bike out for the night but feeling a
| bit better when I'm not around during the day.
| triceratops wrote:
| Cops often don't do anything even if you bring them
| tracking information. Example: https://abc7.com/ebike-
| theft-airtag-aliso-viejo/13091749/
|
| Not everyone is willing to take matters into their own
| hands, like this person's dad did.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Wouldn't a thief receive a stalking alert if they've got an
| iPhone?
| woleium wrote:
| sop for thieves is to move the bike and leave it for a
| week then come pick it up if the owner hasn't come to get
| it.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I thought that organised bike thieves would quickly hand
| them over to have their parts stripped and then sold
| separately.
|
| If they store the stolen bikes somewhere, then it'd be
| easy for police to set up a honeypot bike operation with
| a tracker inserted into the frame. Lock it up somewhere
| that's known for thefts and wait for it to be nicked.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| There's an interesting problem here in Bristol where a couple
| had improvised an e-cargo bike locking solution on the side
| of the road using a couple of planters. Unfortunately, the
| council aren't happy about it and are threatening to remove
| them. Seems like parking spaces are unfairly prioritising
| cars or at least aren't flexible in providing locking points
| for e-bikes. Bristol City Council do have a scheme for bike
| hangars which are placed on the road (take up about the same
| space as a car, but provide storage for about 6 bikes), but
| there's a long waiting list and a cargo bike wouldn't fit in
| one.
|
| https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-couple-challenge-
| counci...
| daveoc64 wrote:
| >Unfortunately, the council aren't happy about it and are
| threatening to remove them.
|
| Quite rightly too - it's simply not legal for them to put
| it there.
|
| There are proper processes in place to get an official
| hangar installed. These might be challenging, but that's
| the only fair way to do things.
|
| I think the biggest problem with cars is that we happily
| accept the impact they have on the entire community, just
| so that some people who use them can have more convenience.
| The cost of having a car is passed on to everyone.
|
| Similarly, with bikes it's never going to be possible for
| every single person in the city to have a cargo bike parked
| outside their house - there simply isn't room. This isn't
| ideal, but a situation where only someone who gets there
| first can do it isn't ideal either.
| pmg102 wrote:
| I'm generally pro-cycling but I found this story curious.
| No-one can reserve spots outside their house, for a car or
| any other purpose. So it seemed they were arguing not for
| parity with car users, which I would unquestionably
| support, but for special treatment?
|
| Although I don't really understand why you _can 't_
| reserve/pay for the spot outside your own house, for a
| vehicle OR a bike, which would seem to me a solution that
| would please everyone.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Yeah, it's a tricky one as people shouldn't be able to
| reserve spaces outside their house on a public road, but
| they're only wanting to do that because there aren't any
| facilities to lock a cargo bike to. I think a series of
| simple metal hoops installed on the pavement (sidewalk?)
| next to the road would provide a decent solution and
| would also prevent drivers parking cars on the pavements
| which is very common with our narrow roads. It's in our
| interest to make it easier and more convenient to get
| people to replace car journeys with bike journeys and
| cargo bikes fill a very useful niche for transporting
| kids and other stuff around.
| wildekek wrote:
| I made my own electric bike by purchasing a brand new Stevens
| City Flyer and mounting a TongSheng Tsdz2 Mid Drive motor to it.
| It is light, fast, and really easy to maintain. I've been riding
| it daily for the past 3 years and it has brought me so much joy.
| It changed where I can live and work. I'm running open source
| software, so the top speed is only thermally limited.
| https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1
| monkaiju wrote:
| God i Love my copenhagen wheel so much, gonna be really
| devastated when it dies to a point that i cant fix it since
| Superpedestrian discontinued them
| Rnonymous wrote:
| Coincidentally, this past week, VanMoof, the X3 discussed in the
| article, closed all stores and are on the edge of bankruptcy,
| with a lot of media attention in the Netherlands.
|
| Beautiful smart bikes, but the quality of components is horrible.
| lancewiggs wrote:
| Sadly it is an over-funded (1) company that, it seems, didn't
| know how to pull back to cash flow positiveness when the music
| stopped. The bikes, meanwhile, are pretty but aside from the
| online tracking etc. (now an issue) there are far better
| options out there, especially for practical day to day travel.
|
| The lesson for the sector is clear - make the economics work
| because funding rounds need to be based in reality, at least
| for now.
|
| (1) https://electrek.co/2021/09/01/most-funded-e-bike-company-
| in...
| mulmen wrote:
| Yeah very disappointing. I'm e-bike curious but they're all so
| _ugly_. Something with VanMoof style and a "dumb" drive system
| would be perfect. Give me a conventional derailleur-and-
| cassette in the back and an electric drive up front without
| screaming "this is an e-bike!" in my face and I would be the
| first in line.
| SmellTheGlove wrote:
| I have a Rad City and I kinda like how stupid looking it is -
| especially the step through model, which I definitely have.
| But the nice part is that the bike components are all regular
| parts. Rad seems to be having serious issues as a company,
| which is a shame because for the price they're good frames -
| but if they go under, it's not like I relied on them for
| parts or service anyway.
|
| Anyway digression aside, you might be happiest starting with
| a bike you like and doing your own conversion - either with a
| hub motor or a mid drive. Or have a look at REI - their ebike
| selection mostly look like bikes, with the advantage that
| they'll also service them. That's helpful if the manufacturer
| kicks it.
| mulmen wrote:
| Yeah I have been eyeballing the Rad Wagon for a while.
| Seems perfect for me actually. The styling is very...
| Utilitarian. Almost to the point of charming.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I have the rad-expand, which also looks 'stupid' but I love
| it anyways. But yeah it's great that they didn't go the way
| of vanmoof with an app required to unlock it etc. If they
| do in fact go under my only concern would be a replacement
| battery I guess? Or is that all standardized (it looks
| similar to the batteries on all the rent-to-ride e-bikes I
| see around).
| SmellTheGlove wrote:
| Yeah I think these batteries aren't uncommon, as far as
| the voltage and form factor goes. My understanding is the
| biggest risk is safety. There's a lot of junk out there,
| whereas Rad did a good job ensuring it's supply chain on
| these. My battery is nowhere near any noticeable capacity
| loss so I haven't really looked hard at batteries yet.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Same both on the concerns. You get stories out of NYC
| where couriers/doordashers store their bikes in their
| apartments and during charging their batteries self-
| immolate. In a few of these stories you hear about guys
| having done slapdash repairs on their batteries.
| georgeoliver wrote:
| Ebikes are ugly (subjectively speaking) because of the
| battery, but there are significant trade-offs when you design
| that away, like vendor-locked designs and energy
| capacity/performance. Assuming battery technology will
| improve, which seems likely, ebikes should get nicer looking
| (again, subjectively) in the future.
| zachkatz wrote:
| The Gazelle Arroyo C8 is a Dutch e-bike (one of the only
| models available in the USA) with a beautiful design.
| DANmode wrote:
| I've already commented about it in the past, so I guess I
| won't worry about outing myself again: Aventure.2 looks sexy
| enough for me!
| CalRobert wrote:
| The single most exciting thing about moving to the Netherlands
| next month is getting to ride an electric bakfiets with my kids
| every single day.
| acdha wrote:
| It's great. I've never enjoyed daily life as much as bike
| commuting with my son, even in lousy weather.
|
| My favorite memory of the trip to daycare happened on a shared
| path where I'd often see another dad taking his sons to work on
| a long-tail. One fall day, the boys were wearing superhero
| costumes and those bike helmets with the Roman warrior crests,
| and they were standing up on the running boards cheering him on
| as they raced down the hill. It was like a triumphal procession
| -- and quite the contrast with all of the unhappy, raging
| people on the roads nearby.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| You won't be disappointed, and that feeling will not fade. I
| grew up in the US but live in the Netherlands, and when I see
| parents riding around with their kids and pets in an electric
| bakfiets, on bike paths along city and country roads, and on
| paths through the parks, I am so benevolently jealous of them.
| The kids always look so delighted, having the time of their
| lives, and the parents are so healthy and fit!
|
| I can highly recommend getting an electric bakfiets with an
| Enviolo NuVinci Stepless Automatic Transmission Hub. It's a
| gearless continuously variable planetary hub, with an automatic
| transmission, that can change gears while you're stopped,
| automatically shifting from high into low gear when you stop at
| an intersection, then smoothly shifting up as you accelerate.
| Yes, it can actually shift while stopped, and while you're
| accelerating, and it's perfectly smooth. Get a carbon fiber
| belt drive instead of a chain if you can, too. Low maintenance,
| long life, and grease free!
|
| Your kids will be safer and you will be much happier
| concentrating on driving and navigating instead of shifting
| gears, especially if you tend to forget to shift into low gear
| before stopping, which is a potential disaster with a normal
| derailleur and a bakfiets full of kids at a busy intersection,
| but not a problem with an automatic continuous transmission.
|
| https://www.urbanebikes.nl/cargo-l-enviolo-automatic
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiXwhjlSMc
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ2f08RHD1Y
| swader999 wrote:
| E bikes really are the best form of travel.
|
| The only issue is how do you get rid of that ridiculous looking
| grin on your face. You just had a huge rush, got a bit of
| exercise, paid nothing for parking, eight pennies for 'gas', and
| beat all your co-workers who were stuck in traffic. The grin is
| real and not a good look professionally at the office when
| commuting.
|
| Thanks ebikes.ca, endless sphere forums and Sheldon Brown. True
| spirit of the internet.
| js2 wrote:
| > E bikes really are the best form of travel
|
| Whether an E bike is the best form of travel is going to depend
| on a lot of factors. It's certainly less flexible than a car.
|
| For one person who doesn't need to carry a lot and who lives
| somewhere that has dedicated bike lanes or can at least safely
| share the road with cars and where the weather is neither much
| too cold nor much too hot and there aren't daily thunderstorms,
| sure.
|
| I don't mean this to be critical of E bikes or biking in
| general. I wish the built environment (in the U.S.) were more
| supportive of biking. Things like the weather are what they
| are, but the lack of dedicated bike lanes are a choice we made
| in the U.S. It can be especially bad in the suburbs and rural
| areas.
|
| Personally (U.S east coast, mid-atlantic), I could reasonably
| use an E bike for a limited set of my trips in the spring and
| fall except the roads near me are hostile to bikes and there
| are no sidewalks in many cases. In the summer (July - Sep), an
| E bike isn't suitable due to heat, humidity, and on a lot of
| days severe thunderstorms.
| swader999 wrote:
| While I didn't completely replace my car, I was able to go a
| couple of months on each tank and reduced my insurance to the
| casual driver level.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| I know someone who carries a lot, lives in London (some
| dedicated bike lanes, not many), the weather is, uh, random
| at best, and he does the shopping, commutes from SW London to
| Farringdon, etc. All using an e-bike with detachable cargo
| trailer.
|
| If I didn't live on the 3rd floor[1], or had bike storage
| downstairs, I'd get one ASAP.
|
| [1] I need an e-bike for the same reason I can't carry 20kg
| up 4 flights - my right knee is functionally useless.
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _If I didn 't live on the 3rd floor[1], or had bike
| storage downstairs, I'd get one ASAP._
|
| Folding bicycle?
|
| * https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a20048132/best-
| folding-...
|
| * https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-folding-
| bike...
|
| There are e-bike variants available as well.
|
| (General consensus seems to be Brompton is (at) the top
| tier, but not cheap.)
| giobox wrote:
| Electric folding bikes are typically pretty heavy, I own
| a couple - my wife for one would really struggle to carry
| either of them to the first floor let alone the third.
|
| Most electric folding bikes, the fold allows easy moving
| in cars/elevators or storage, I would not personally
| recommend them for multi-floor stair commutes unless you
| are comfortable with what you are getting yourself into.
|
| I've also had two former colleagues trade folding e-bikes
| for folding e-scooters just to avoid the hassle of taking
| the folding e-bike up two flights of stairs at the office
| end. The e-scooters are far easier to maneuver/stow on
| busy commuter trains if that is a factor too - you can
| get roughly the same range at 50% of the weight and its
| far smaller folded.
|
| As a typical example:
|
| * https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radexpand-
| electric-fo...
|
| That's a 64lb/29kg bike, and not uncommon for a folding
| ebike.
| [deleted]
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > Electric folding bikes are typically pretty heavy
|
| Yeah, that's the problem, unfortunately.
|
| > The e-scooters are far easier
|
| Alas, they have the same "my knee is made of soap"
| problem.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| Used to cycle 25 miles a day in the city, like somebody
| else mentioned here its crazy how fast your tolerance and
| stamina build up, as well as your ability of handle what
| first looks like insanely scary traffic. Was the fittest I
| have ever been during my cycling years and I was beating my
| tube commute time substantially.
|
| Been riding a motorcycle in London though for the last 15
| years. A bit more effort to get started I guess but worth
| considering. From a theft point of view there's so many
| motorbikes about that a 10 year old boring one with a
| decent chain is quite unlikely to get stolen, probably cost
| less than an ebike too.
| [deleted]
| hughesjj wrote:
| Depends. If you're out in the boonies with nothing but
| shoulderless rural highway roads then yeah, ebikes aren't
| great, but for the majority of Americans (let alone
| westerners or people in general) ebikes are more than enough.
|
| I'm 6'2" 260lbs and can ride a lectric xpedition all over
| Seattle hills with my girlfriend on the back and enough gear
| to have a picnic and go shopping for a fun day out. The same
| bike has a two seater orbiter for little kids on the back and
| still room for cargo.
|
| I just got back from Paris and Amsterdam. In Paris, I saw a
| dude riding a bike towing a trailer with 6 more ebikes on it.
| This was around Montmartre, which is notoriously hilly.
|
| In Amsterdam, there's this thing called a bakfiet, which is
| super popular and carries even more cargo than that lectric
| bike I have. It's big enough for you to put two teenagers
| into with a parent driving, or two dogs comfortably, or
| enough groceries for your doomsday shelter.
|
| I don't buy the cold either. Bar mitts exist, and are on
| almost every bike in NYC, which definitely gets cold in the
| winter. I've seen it in Boston too. You can also get studded
| tires for the snow, and to be real I'd rather lose control in
| the snow on a <100lb bike over a >2000 pound car if the snow
| is really that bad.
|
| That said, yeah, there's no climate control in a bike. If you
| dress in layers and with the appropriate gear it's mitigated
| but definitely less convenient imo. Also if you're a super
| commuter, yeah ebikes will take forever, but to be fair super
| committing sucks regardless. Sucked my life out doing 3-5
| hours a day in Philly traffic back when I was doing that,
| really happy and privileged not to have to do that anymore.
| The gas was stupid expensive too, I was filling up every
| other day at minimum.
|
| I'm not saying we should get rid of cars. I am saying that
| there are and always have been alternatives, and those
| alternatives are pretty darn nice these days, and for me
| better in every case save for Costco runs and camping/road
| trips. Mostly, I'm saying that we shouldn't resign ourselves
| to being car dependent, because it sucks.
|
| After getting my first big boy west coast job, I was
| determined to never have to go through the bs trauma I got
| being car dependent again, and I'm much happier for it.
|
| No more getting stuck on the PA turnpike for hours due to an
| overturned 18 wheeler. No more rear end collisions from rush
| hour cloverleaf merging. No more snow rusting out my brake
| lines and limping back to my mom's house to replace them with
| my dad before driving back to college to drop my gf off for
| work. No more borrowing a friend's car because my
| transmission gave out and my office had a super restrictive
| WFH policy. No more hailstorms and dealing with insurance who
| didn't want to cover the brand new rental car I was using
| when my transmission failed (yes that was literally the same
| month). No more inspections or tags or biannual maintenance
| or anxiety over how to get to work when things go wrong. No
| more stressing about geopolitics affecting the price at the
| pump when I was barely making enough to get by in the first
| place.
|
| After 7 car free years in Seattle, I bought a car again. I
| love my Subaru. I've modded it a ton, and drove it all over
| the west coast. I will continue using my Subaru. My Subaru is
| a luxury, and it is a convenience, and I'm so much happier
| that I don't need to treat it as a requirement to earn a
| living or feed myself or whatever.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| >In Amsterdam, there's this thing called a bakfiet, which
| is super popular
|
| It's not super popular. The things are a hassle to carry
| anything with, and any small things are easier done with a
| regular bike with a satchel or just carrying the bags.
| Doubly so in a place like Amsterdam, where general
| commodities are within walking distance and any big things
| are near a central station.
|
| >It's big enough for you to put two teenagers
|
| Two _teenagers_? With the average Dutch height? Are you
| trying to break their legs?
| hughesjj wrote:
| You got a point on dutch teenager height lol. By super
| popular I mean most blocks id see at least one or two
| parked or riding by me. I was staying around the museum
| district. To your point though I suppose when there's
| like 50 bikes per street in some of those areas along the
| that doesn't make it "super popular". (
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/SDP55mmEDotWMuaK8 )
|
| I've seen them before in Seattle too around 2017 when
| prime now was still a thing.
|
| I shouldn't have said super popular, you're right, and
| more like early than late teenagers (thinking of my
| brothers), and even then I don't think it would be
| comfortable. I am saying they're an option if you really
| need the cargo room though.
|
| Stuff like this is comically large imo
|
| https://urbanarrow.com/family-bikes/family/
|
| And then there's the absurd
| https://www.icebike.org/biggest-cargo-bike/
|
| Realistically this is my gf's bike, albeit with the
| running boards and a pop up basket in place of one seat
| in the back
|
| https://ebikeescape.com/lectric-xpedition-review/
|
| And this is a newer trim of my bike, although I have
| paniers and a pop up cargo basket on the rear rack
|
| https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/ripcurrent-s
| canucker2016 wrote:
| dcrainmaker, who does reviews of sports-related tech
| devices, has written an annual blog entry when he gets a
| Christmas tree.
|
| Now that he lives in Amsterdam with three young children,
| he goes Christmas tree shopping with a cargo bike with
| the kids in the front cargo space.
|
| 2020: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/12/getting-the-
| christmas-tr...
|
| 2021: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/12/getting-
| christmas-by-bik...
|
| 2022: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/12/getting-
| christmas-by-bik...
| dagurp wrote:
| Temperature is not an issue in most places.
| danieldk wrote:
| When I lived in Southern Germany, before WFH, I went by bike
| (non-ebike) literally every working day of the year (22-25 km
| depending on the route). 35 degrees (just leave earlier),
| snow, rain, whatever. It was so great, you automatically
| build up a lot of condition, have a lot of energy when you
| arrive at work, and some 1-2 days every week I'd cycle back
| through the hills to get some extra climbing practice.
|
| During the weekends I'd often cycle through the
| mountains/hills as well. Sometimes with our 3/4 year old
| daughter in a Thule bike trailer.
|
| The only downside was that Germany doesn't have a lot of
| dedicated cycling lanes and drivers are either too careful or
| completely reckless around bikes. And it was definitely not
| normal for German standards, I often got questions from
| Germans how I kept up with it through all weather.
|
| At any rate, I have so many good memories of the daily
| cycling and it's a thing that I miss now. We do pretty much
| everything by bike now as well, but we live in a city (in The
| Netherlands) and everything is nearby. I do frequently go for
| longer trips in nature in spring/summer. The upside is that
| cycling is much much safer here (dedicated bike lanes, etc.).
| prmoustache wrote:
| Yeah, weather is such a bad excuse.
| swader999 wrote:
| Extreme heat maybe, but cold can be handled.
| lostNFound wrote:
| Surprised no comment in this thread mentioned speed actually,
| apart from cargo space of course.
|
| In my area traffic is completely quiet. In a car you can go
| 120km/h in the highways fine, and even _almost_ that in some
| specific non highway streets.
|
| I always want to get one until I remember:
|
| 1. I WFH and "university FH". Both are >100km from my house
| for when I rarely need to go.
|
| 2. My gym is 15km away and I barely get there in time in my
| car at the aforementioned speeds. There are no closer ones.
|
| 3. My non-e-bike is just my weekend workout (which I love)
| but if using for workout, e-bike doesn't make much sense.
|
| 4. The only other use case for my car is getting groceries
| for my entire family or other cargo heavy things.
| DANmode wrote:
| > if using for workout, e-bike doesn't make much sense.
|
| If you have time,
|
| or don't have time, but still want variety in your
| route/scenery,
|
| there's no better option.
| atahanacar wrote:
| [dead]
| yokoprime wrote:
| I love in Norway and we have studded tires on our Urban Arrow
| during winter. It can carry probably about a weeks worth of
| groceries. That being said we have a car too, so it's about
| using the right tool for the job: downtown shopping means
| using the bike, weekend in the mountains we use the car. If
| it's a storm outside we usually take the car too.
| shrimpx wrote:
| I'm eyeing an e-bike but part of me is afraid that I won't
| exercise as much and get lazy. Currently I bike often and get a
| pretty good daily workout as I climb into town.
| acdha wrote:
| I have found the opposite to be true: it removes excuses not
| to cycle, and going faster means we ride longer. We've gone
| long enough without starting our car that I had to jump it a
| couple of time.
| shrimpx wrote:
| Thanks!
| acdha wrote:
| One other thought: if you've ever been annoyed by cargo
| capacity, flats, etc. e-assist is a great leveler. I
| stopped worrying about the weight of my lock, heavy duty
| tires, etc. because I have an e-cargo bike with a kid on
| it, which is liberating compared to sweating grams on a
| road bike. (Not that a good road bike isn't fun but it's
| way less practical)
| shrimpx wrote:
| Thanks that is useful. Indeed I worry about cargo weight
| and sometimes avoid to take things I'd otherwise rather
| have with me.
| constantcrying wrote:
| There is nothing worse than using a bike in a dense city. I
| love cycling, but the moment you are confronted with high
| concentrations of pedestrians and cars it quickly gets
| unbearable and unreasonably dangerous.
|
| Not to mention that it is impossible for some people, 1:30 with
| a train, 45 minutes with a car and about 3 hours with a bike,
| makes thr choice rather obvious.
| baxuz wrote:
| See, the problem you have is a large concentration of cars.
| constantcrying wrote:
| And pedestrians, who are easily as reckless and uncaring.
| sharkweek wrote:
| Alternative take: I LOVE riding in a dense city. It's
| exhilarating and gives me the wildest rush akin to downhill
| skiing on mountain biking, it puts me in a flow state
| requiring extreme focus.
|
| No doubt it can be dangerous and no matter how honed my
| instincts are with regard to predicting how cars and
| pedestrians are going to act there's always unpredictable
| risk, so I understand not loving that.
|
| In another life I wish I had done a few years as a bike
| courier, I would have loved it.
| constantcrying wrote:
| A life or death obstacle course is absolutely not something
| I want to experience every day while going to work. And I
| am pretty sure that the same thing goes for most other
| people.
| swader999 wrote:
| Building a custom ebike that can do 50km/HR and then you can
| pace cars and it's s lot more harmonious. I spent a lot of
| time planning routes to work, preferred side streets and bike
| paths. Your not constrained to the shortest route when you
| have a bit of per power helping you out.
| constantcrying wrote:
| >Building a custom ebike that can do 50km/HR
|
| Illegal. And suicidal.
| LoganDark wrote:
| > The only issue is how do you get rid of that ridiculous
| looking grin on your face. You just had a huge rush, got a bit
| of exercise, paid nothing for parking, eight pennies for 'gas',
| and beat all your co-workers who were stuck in traffic. The
| grin is real and not a good look professionally at the office
| when commuting.
|
| This is the most hilarious non-satire comment I've read in a
| while. The grin is indeed an issue
| SmellTheGlove wrote:
| Ive been enjoying RTO because most of my commute is via the
| Elliott Bay Trail in Seattle. It really does put me in a
| different mood for the day.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I'm in ballard and my company has an office downtown. Two
| weeks back I needed to go in for a day as my home internet
| was down and decided to take my cargo ebike (it's been
| lovely out). I'm not sure I'd want to commute on a cargo
| bike every day, but it was a great ride, both ways, along
| the ship canal trail. (Little detour on the way home down
| to figurehead brewing to hit up the midnite ramen truck for
| dinner)
| SmellTheGlove wrote:
| The little detours make ebike commuting fun! Out of
| curiosity did you cross the canal at the Ballard Bridge
| or somewhere else? I haven't crossed that bridge yet
| because I really don't want to ride on 15th.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| I take the ballard bridge and it's one of the shittier
| parts of the commute, I'm considering swapping to the
| fremont route. I don't really ride on 15th. I live in old
| ballard so I just swing down though russel/tallman and
| onto 17th and then just take the the ballard way sidewalk
| to the ballard bridge entrance. The pedestrian path on
| either side is rideable as long as there is no-one else
| around, you may be reduced to walking your bike though.
| So yeah I'd avoid 15th proper and just take a side street
| down to ballard ave.
|
| That said the ramen truck would be quite a detour if I
| took the fremont bridge as it's in interbay near
| fishermen's terminal.
| operatingthetan wrote:
| It's not a good bridge to cross because the walk/bike
| part of it is dangerously narrow. Either take the Fremont
| bridge or use the Ballard Locks (which requires walking).
| swader999 wrote:
| Thanks, I don't have the tech chops most of you have so I try
| to help out in odd places wherever I can.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| I haven't experienced it first hand, but I had one as I
| read your comment :D
| pjmlp wrote:
| I get the same with a motorbike.
| rcpt wrote:
| > how do you get rid of that ridiculous looking grin on your
| face
|
| Getting buzzed by an SUV or honked at a stoplight works for me
| n40487171 wrote:
| I feel like a paintball gun on a shoulder strap might help to
| discourage that behavior from motorists
| rcpt wrote:
| Real gun
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/ofrr0f/armed_cycl
| i...
| rsynnott wrote:
| Huh. I mean, fair enough, I suppose, but also, wtf.
| swader999 wrote:
| The air zound, world's loudest bike horn, is another non-
| lethal solution.
| DANmode wrote:
| I've been riding my ebike in public, aggressively, for over
| 1000 miles.
|
| Where are you located, and what behavior of yours do you
| suspect these people are taking such issue that they're
| threatening you with their vehicles? Just being a cyclist?
| tjoff wrote:
| The problem of thieves is such a downer though. Against all
| kinds of bikes, really takes both the joy and the utility out
| of it. Same with owning a scooter and similar vehicles.
|
| And even if you have good and safe parking at home and at the
| office (great!), which will cover the vast majority of trips it
| still limits the usefulness of a vehicle to be so tied up.
|
| Yes, there are solutions/mitigations/compromises. But expensive
| and heavy locks suck and the ever present thought in your head
| planning a good parking spot etc. kills the joy of it.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Just put your bike on your renters or homeowners insurance.
| Mine is covered for theft with zero deductible.
| abeppu wrote:
| If your bike is stolen and you actually make a claim, does
| that make your homeowners insurance more expensive going
| forward?
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Not in my experience. Premiums only go up when I add more
| things covered e.g. specifically by zero deductible vs
| the general deductibles.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| On that same vein, is there a limit of how many times you
| can make a claim on stolen bikes?
| danieldk wrote:
| I have insurance with a tracker. It costs about 10 Euro per
| month. If the bike is stolen, they first try to find it with
| the tracker. Bikes with trackers are usually put temporarily
| in public space close to where it's stolen during a cool-off
| period to check if the tracker is still operational/followed.
| Usually the insurance will just recover the bike from this
| cool-off spot. If the insurance company cannot find the bike
| through the tracker, they'll buy you a new bike.
|
| Besides that, the rule is to always make your bike the least
| attractive to steal. Use two locks eg. a ring lock through
| the rear wheel and a chain lock through the front wheel,
| frame, and attached to something stationary (so they can't
| through the bike in a van and break the locks later). In
| general it's also good to put it in places where someone
| would notice if anyone tries to steal the bike, but not so
| busy that no one would notice and feels responsibility. Bonus
| points (remember the 'least attractive' rule), put it in some
| place where there are bikes that are much easier to steal
| (eg. not attached to a fixed object).
|
| _But expensive and heavy locks suck and the ever present
| thought in your head planning a good parking spot etc. kills
| the joy of it._
|
| It's also a cultural/facilities thing. Eg. in The Netherlands
| many cities have bike parking with supervision and nobody
| minds if you attach your bike to eg. a lamp post. And most
| cities have plenty of lamp posts, so no real planning
| necessary :).
| ohwellhere wrote:
| I had a coworker have his bike stolen on 5th Ave in New
| York City while thoroughly chained and U-locked to
| scaffolding at 9am with hundreds of pedestrian passersby in
| the time it took him to go up the passenger elevator and
| down the freight elevator.
| swader999 wrote:
| Portable angle grinders and certain kinds of jacks. A
| nail clipper with a bic lighter can get through a cable
| in less than a minute.
| tjoff wrote:
| I haven't seen such insurance, looks favorable. Bikes here
| are pretty much uninsurable (my opinion) and while I
| happily get a tracker I have zero hope of it being useful.
|
| If you don't want a crappy bike you are going to stand out,
| guaranteed, and double locks won't deter.
|
| Lamp posts is exactly what I had in mind, you can only have
| one to two bikes per lamp post. So depending on your
| destination you have your goto and a few backups ready
| planned.
|
| Yes, double locks and a lamp-post in a public place will
| probably be good enough during the day, it is still such a
| hassle.
| danieldk wrote:
| That kind of insurance is easy to get here in The
| Netherlands, of course it may be more difficult
| elsewhere. Eg.:
|
| https://www.anwb.nl/verzekeringen/fietsverzekering
| dieselgate wrote:
| Where is "here" for you? I'm a wa state resident and have
| rental insurance cover bikes no problem
| entropicgravity wrote:
| Having rode motorcycles and an ebike scooter in the past,
| both of these have an integrated lock for the handle bars.
| This means a thief can't just cut the lock and roll the bike
| away because the handle bars are locked at an angle. The
| thief then has a choice of carrying the bike, breaking the
| handle bar lock, or awkwardly picking up the front tire and
| dragging it. All of which takes time and is obvious to on
| lookers and in the case of breaking the lock then the bicycle
| frame is now worthless.
|
| I would like to see more ebikes include an integrated
| handlebar locks in their ebikes. Cheap and effective.
| Aulig wrote:
| When my bike was stolen, they drove up with a large van,
| threw a bunch of bikes in the back, and drove away. A
| handlebar lock wouldn't do much here unfortunately.
| [deleted]
| amelius wrote:
| Have you tried a U-lock?
| analog31 wrote:
| Murphy's law for bicycles: All bikes weigh 35 pounds, because
| the lighter the bike, the heavier the lock needed to secure
| it.
| jerlam wrote:
| This rule doesn't work for ebikes that can weigh 70 pounds
| unloaded.
| wl wrote:
| If you're riding a bike you've actually weighed, the bike
| should be in your sight or locked up at home. If you're
| leaving it locked up in public, that should be a different,
| far less valuable bike.
| analog31 wrote:
| Oddly enough I'm the rare exception. I weighed my bike
| (21 pounds, hardly a lightweight), but it's thrown
| together from old parts, and hopefully not a theft
| magnet. But also, I'm conscious of the actual level of
| bike theft in my locale, and am not particularly worried
| about it. I can always park it next to a nicer bike with
| a less secure lock.
| [deleted]
| wpietri wrote:
| I feel that one for sure. I live in San Francisco and was a
| dedicated cyclist. I had 6 bikes stolen in my first years
| here. But I was stubborn, got cannier, and kept the 7th long
| enough for it to look scruffy. Which let me keep it for
| years. But then it got stolen while locked up behind a
| 12-foot fence and something went out of me. I just gave up.
|
| I still make occasional trips on the Lyft bikes, which are
| fine. And I've been thinking about getting another bike. But
| especially with e-bikes, which are much more expensive and
| therefore much better theft targets, I just can't sign myself
| up for years of fretting about theft.
| pyaamb wrote:
| did u ever put an airtag on it?
| swader999 wrote:
| Maybe get a folder bike?
| c-cube wrote:
| I haven't tried but I'm curious about them: would a
| foldable (e)bike do it for you? You just don't leave it
| outside at all!
|
| I've been eyeing the Bromptons but without a commute it's
| harder for me to justify the cost.
| pigscantfly wrote:
| I had a foldable e-bike for two months (was great) in SF
| before it was stolen. Someone saw me ride up to my house
| and enter the basement entrance where I kept it locked to
| a pole in a utility closet. Later on, they grabbed a food
| delivery bag, told another tenant they were making a
| delivery, got buzzed into the building, and stole the
| bike. They didn't get either battery, but I haven't
| bought a bike since.
| wpietri wrote:
| Very sorry to hear this, but I appreciate the tale as a
| warning.
| abeppu wrote:
| > You just don't leave it outside at all!
|
| How practical is this really? You bring your folding bike
| into the restaurant where you're eating, into the bar
| where you're meeting friends, into the gym (it doesn't
| fit into a locker), into the little corner store with
| narrow aisles, etc? I feel like taking the folding bike
| indoors can work for a commute if your office doesn't
| have dedicated safe bike storage, but I think it falls
| apart as an overall response to "I'm inhibited from using
| my bike as my primary transportation b/c it is an easy
| target of theft"
| parshimers wrote:
| A Brompton is really small when folded. Smaller than a
| carry-on suitcase by volume. It rolls on little scooter
| wheels on the rear rack when folded. I bring mine into
| all the places you just listed on a regular basis, except
| for a gym. For a restaurant, it typically will fit under
| a table. At a bar, if you are at a table the previous
| thing works. I've also had the bar staff offer to stash
| it inside the store room. If someone you are meeting up
| with is DD'ing a trunk works as well. I've never been in
| a store so small I couldn't roll it in, you can just pull
| the seat up a bit and roll it in front of you.
| wpietri wrote:
| Yeah, if I had a commute, I'd think about a foldable,
| although I struggle with the look. But a big use case for
| a bike for me is recreational distance riding, which is
| sounds like they're not great at.
| raisedbyninjas wrote:
| Is there a model made where the motor, battery and
| electronics are all easily detachable?
| brnt wrote:
| Although love of the new is gaining territory here too, let
| me share some once universally accepted Dutch advice: thou
| shalt ride an old clunker worth no more than the lock you
| secure it with.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| There are many downers actually, none of which mentioned in
| that poem. People opening car doors right in front of you.
| Oil patches on roads. Dogs. Heat strokes. Inhaling all the
| nastiness that a car somewhat protects you against. But in
| countryside I imagine it could be very nice. Pity I never
| lived in countryside and never going to be.
| analog31 wrote:
| A problem with the ridiculous grin is that people somehow
| assume riding a bike is purely a source of personal
| gratification or irrational indulgence at the expense of
| others. Like being cheerful while you're working. Or working
| from home.
| lostlogin wrote:
| How does riding a bike come at the expense of others?
| analog31 wrote:
| There's a widespread perception that we get in the way of
| traffic, take frivolous risks, and demand infrastructure
| changes to be made on our behalf.
| atahanacar wrote:
| Because "This road is blocked because of that one cyclist,
| definitely not because of thousands of cars each carrying
| only a single person." or "If that bike lane wasn't there
| there would be no traffic. Just one more lane bro"
| sandworm101 wrote:
| The smile of a totally able-bodied person living in a temperate
| climate heading to a job that doesnt require them to haul much
| more than thier own bodyweight to work. Not everyone can
| physically ride a bike. Not everyone lives in sunny california.
| Not everyone has the luxury of a single-location office job a
| few miles from home. Workmen drive pickup trucks for reasons.
|
| There was so much smoke at my work on thursday (forest fires)
| that those who biked in were hitching rides home because
| physical activity outside was to be curtailed due to air
| quality.
| desas wrote:
| Not everyone can drive a car either. No-one is making the
| point that there has to be one method of transport to rule
| them all.
| paganel wrote:
| There is no way for me to let a ~2000 euros object of mine
| unattended and out in the open. I barely leave my current bike
| like that, and that "only" costs ~300 euros.
|
| More generally, I feel like this is a subject that doesn't get
| discussed often enough. Yes, most probably the writer of this
| article can eat the 2000 euros loss if his e-bike gets stolen,
| but the majority of the population cannot. It also sucks that the
| majority of said population is also made to feel like it is its
| fault for not riding this type of bikes instead of driving their
| SH cars to work and back.
| mongol wrote:
| This is probably the biggest problem associated wkth e-bikes.
| Every time you leave it locked outside, you have a nagging
| feeling it may be the last time you see it. The freedom it
| brings is a little curtailed by the need to choose a safe spot
| to park it. Perhaps the best is just to learn to live with the
| risk.
| 0wis wrote:
| Many people let 10-100s kEUR objects daily out in the open, and
| it doesn't seem to bother them. Cars are nowadays quite secure,
| but back in the 80's, car theft was a real thing, and it did
| not stop people to use them. And motorbikes have the same
| problems as bicycles.
|
| Bikes have to be better equipped and infrastructure should be
| developed, sure. But solutions exists. I know many people who
| are using electric bikes daily in neighborhoods known for theft
| of all kinds, and they never got their bike stolen. All they do
| is carefully lock them to a fixed point with a good U-lock or
| chain and keep the battery with them if they are really
| worried. Not much more a hassle than for a motorbike.
| oezi wrote:
| Berlin is prone to bike theft but a good lock and an insurance
| (less than 10% of the purchase price per year) helps to manage.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| You can easily insure the bike.
| namdnay wrote:
| Now that Decathlon are flooding the market with reliable sub 1k
| ebikes, second hand prices have also lowered and it's not hard
| to pick up a reasonable one for 700-800 eur
|
| Having a motor also means saddlebags and hence the possibility
| of using a motorbike chain
| xutopia wrote:
| I haven't seen any at the Decathlons in Canada. Can't wait
| for them to be available here as well.
| itamarst wrote:
| There are electric folding bikes you can take inside with you.
| blamazon wrote:
| The first problem you outline has a very simple solution:
| insurance. Just like cars.
|
| E-bikes can also be leased, to lower the barrier to entry. As
| an alternative to providing costly downtown parking, many
| employers in USA subsidize month-to-month e-bike leases with a
| final cost of like 30 bucks a month.
| Filligree wrote:
| Bicycle theft insurance costs approximately ten percent the
| cost of the bicycle, per month.
|
| Which should tell you how good an idea it is to leave one
| unattended.
| [deleted]
| marklubi wrote:
| I just insured my son's new bike ($1500) for only $20/year
| as a rider on my renter's insurance
| oezi wrote:
| Less than 10% per _year_.
| woah wrote:
| I am insuring a $5000 bicycle against theft in San
| Francisco, and it costs 0.5% the cost of the bike every
| month. I have no idea where you are getting these insane
| numbers from
| dermesser wrote:
| Yes, if your bicycle costs $100. But why insure it then?
| manmal wrote:
| I can insure my EUR4k electric cargobike for EUR7/month. I
| do have to use a EUR80 lock, but I'd do that anyway.
| georgeoliver wrote:
| That rate is quite good. The best I could find with
| multiple quotes for an 8k USD ebike was 35 USD/month.
| chopsuey5540 wrote:
| Where are you getting your numbers from? I got my new
| e-bike insured for 2 years for 10% of the purchase price
| [deleted]
| dota_fanatic wrote:
| The author lives in Japan. The probability of it getting stolen
| is approximately zero.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| Coming from a city where bike theft is severe, the biggest
| culture shock for me in Japan was seeing how they "lock"
| their bicycles: loop a flimsy metal ring through the back
| wheel, and walk away. You could easily still wheel the bike
| away on its front wheel or toss it into the back of a truck.
| And yet, it will always still be there when you come back.
| Amazing.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| If they use any lock at all. Even in the heart of tokyo
| you'll see bikes just propped up against a wall or sitting
| in a rack with no lock at all.
| wildekek wrote:
| I have one with a detachable battery. Apart from the charging
| convenience this brings, it also makes the bike way less
| attractive to steal.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| The problem being now you are lugging around a 10lbs battery,
| I guess if you are just locking up at the office that's ok.
| But I wouldn't want to lock up on a market street and then
| lug an extra 10lbs around with me while I shop.
| wildekek wrote:
| Very true, this can be a nuisance. Most of the times I plop
| it in my backpack (which I always carry). When at a bar or
| restaurant this is fine, but walking with it is certainly
| not ideal.
| rcpt wrote:
| Replacing a catalytic converter costs about $3k
| carabiner wrote:
| What are people's experiences with folding e-bikes? I'm most
| interested in the Gocycle, but it costs as much as a used car.
| This Siggi https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/siggi-unfold-
| everyday-lif... looks great and only weighs 13 kg but has all the
| risks of a crowdfunding project (massive delays and initial
| quality issues). It's the first I've seen with regenerative
| braking, and you can pedal backwards to charge it.
| type0 wrote:
| You get what you pay for in foldable e-bikes
| dharma1 wrote:
| I test rode a folding Brompton e-bike in London and am tempted.
| I heard they are working on a version with slightly larger
| wheels which would be great, but no word on launch date - could
| be a while.
| chriswarbo wrote:
| They're useful on the train (my commute's train didn't allow
| nonfolding bikes, since the line heads to/from London which
| makes it crowded). I previously left my acoustic bike locked at
| the station all day; but wouldn't dare with an ebike, so I got
| a folder.
| paulhart wrote:
| Pity about Van Moof though - and the owners if the cloud service
| disappears and they can't ride their bikes any more.
|
| https://electrek.co/2023/07/12/dutch-e-bike-company-vanmoof-...
|
| [German]: https://zug.network/@moritzkraehe/110716829137328870
| planb wrote:
| This is not true, even if it's repeated a zillion times
| everywhere. As long as you don't change your phone, smart
| unlock works without internet connection. And there is already
| third party software (which needs to connect to the Vanmoof
| servers once to save the key though). But you can always unlock
| by entering your code using the button. The real problem is
| that these bikes break every 20 km and there will be no parts
| or service anymore.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| "As long as you don't change your phone" being a requirement
| for continuing to use the bike I paid for is ludicrous. That
| said I saw this in an article just yesterday, maybe it solves
| the problem created by techbros wanting to build smart
| 'everythings': https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bikey-
| app/id6451117309
| [deleted]
| mulmen wrote:
| Definitely a shame. After reading the article I thought the S3
| looked neat and was disappointed to see it is no longer
| available. The new model is ugly and uninteresting.
| hooverd wrote:
| They're putting DRM in everything these days.
| gerbilly wrote:
| Unpopular opinion:
|
| Ride a regular bike.
|
| In terms of theft, just use a beater bike for commuting.
|
| By getting rid of the 'E' part of the bike, you'll get more
| exercise and won't have to worry about theft.
|
| For years I rode a beater that I found in the garbage and that I
| fixed up with some parts I had lying around. Later I upgraded to
| a singlespeed because derailleurs freeze up in the winter.
|
| It's a trek earl. Seriously bikes are so ridiculously efficient
| why do we need to add batteries and motors and geegaws to them?
| Moldoteck wrote:
| I think there were a study that people actually exercised more
| with ebikes since it allowed them to not get tired so fast,
| something like how people are doing in gyms: if everything was
| too heavy, ppl would exercise less compared to when they can
| choose the difficulty
| carabiner wrote:
| Get a folding e-bike and you can bring it indoors so that you
| don't have to lock it up outside.
| [deleted]
| ben-schaaf wrote:
| I've got a big hill on my commute, wasn't fit and it gets up to
| 40C in the summer here. For me it's ebike or car.
| nicbou wrote:
| Try both, seriously.
|
| I rented e-bikes to show relatives around, and they're
| fantastic if you can't or won't exercise that day. Sometimes it
| can make the difference between taking the bike or the car.
|
| I see so many people on e-bikes that wouldn't ride a bicycle at
| all otherwise, and I think "good for them".
| antiframe wrote:
| Some people live in hilly areas. Taking a child to school can
| go from "nope unless you are top 1% fit people in the world" to
| "quite the workout". You can turn the motor off on flat
| terrain.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Here is why I like my ebike. I'm pushing 50 and out of shape,
| just hopping on a bike and trying to commute is going to be a
| disaster. So point one for the ebike, it allows me to ease into
| a bicycle commute.
|
| Generally on my way to the office I don't want to get all
| sweaty and have to use the showers, so point two for the ebike.
| I can use higher pedal assist or lean on the throttle a bit
| more on the way to work and arrive fresh. On the way home I can
| turn down/off the pedal assist and ignore the throttle as much
| as possible to start acclimating myself to a truer bicycle
| commute.
| Renaud wrote:
| It's true, but also not true. E-bikes allow a lot of people to
| cycle who otherwise wouldn't ride at all.
|
| If you're reasonably fit, or only use your normal bike on
| routes you are confident you can ride at your fitness level,
| then do that with a normal bike.
|
| E-bikes will however free you from doubting you can achieve
| whatever is in front of you, and that removes a powerful
| barrier that prevent a lot of people from using bikes at all.
|
| I see lots of elderly people and people of all shapes
| travelling long distances on e-bikes.
|
| Maybe you don't get 100% of the benefits of human-powered
| travel, but if you use the assistance sparingly, you easily get
| 70-80% of the benefit.
|
| I set le lowest level of assistance of mine to only 15%. Helps
| me lug the 60lbs of stuff I carry with me on my journeys and I
| still get a good cardio pushing myself, riding a few hours a
| day.
|
| I do use a normal bike sometimes, and prefer them for agility
| and for the pleasure of feeling lighter, but my e-bike is
| taking me farther and faster (and I've lost 15lbs since last
| year and never felt better in my life than I do now).
| dukeyukey wrote:
| > why do we need to add batteries and motors and geegaws to
| them?
|
| Hills. Unfit people. Older people. Not getting to work sweaty.
| To carry children, cargo, or pull a small trailer.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| I feel the same way, but if "e" is what it takes to get more
| people on bicycles, I'm not gonna argue with them.
|
| Incidentally, I also custom built a "mini velo" similar to the
| author's "orange city bomber." It really is the best bicycle
| for urban environments, pure fun, no idea why they aren't more
| popular in the states.
| pmg102 wrote:
| In the UK, as in Europe and Australia I believe, Ebikes
| ("pedelecs") are legally limited to assistance only up to
| 15mph=25kph (it's possible to exceed this downhill, of course).
| As someone used to riding a regular pedal bike, I would say this
| is close to but not quite fast enough to feel comfortable among
| urban traffic. Yet raising the limit to say 20mph could feel
| arguably unsafely fast on a shared use path through a park. It's
| a dilemma.
| fulafel wrote:
| There are also the 45 km/h s-pedelecs in EU, maybe still in the
| UK too.
| pmg102 wrote:
| There are, although it's a bureaucratic palaver in the UK
| getting them registered, taxed, insured and legal. And then
| they, like mopeds, aren't allowed on cycle paths or in cycle
| lanes... In short, losing much of the freedom that makes
| bicycles such fun.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-07-16 23:01 UTC)