[HN Gopher] Defenestration of Prague Window (2019)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Defenestration of Prague Window (2019)
        
       Author : pepys
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2023-07-15 14:55 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | baron816 wrote:
       | I wonder if "defenestration of Prague" became a memorable term 1)
       | because of its historical significance, 2) because
       | "defenestration" sounds funny, or 3) because nobles at the time
       | just thought it was absolutely hilarious and became obsessed with
       | it to the point that it just stood the test of time.
        
         | mongol wrote:
         | It really is a curious event. Apart from the two occurrences in
         | Prague, you seldom hear about defenestrations. I can recall
         | some movies where people are thrown out through windows, but
         | apart from that, very little. I wonder if there was a symbolic
         | meaning to it. Such as, meant to be humiliating. Or was it
         | improvised in the moment?
        
         | manuelabeledo wrote:
         | I would think that the start of the Thirty year war is of
         | historical significance, like the killing of Archduke Franz
         | Ferdinand.
         | 
         | Also, it's pretty cool to think that the term "defenestration"
         | survived for several hundred years. Imagine if, two hundred
         | years from now, people were still adding the suffix "gate" to
         | signify a scandal.
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | For me it occupies an early memory because of Latin class ("de"
         | + "fenestra" literally "down from the window") where we all
         | found the story quite amusing.
        
         | jakubmazanec wrote:
         | Jara Cimrman has the answer: "When Cimrman contemplated Czech
         | history, he pointed out an interesting phenomenon. Major
         | European events often begin in the Czech Republic, specifically
         | in Prague, and usually through a so-called defenestration. The
         | first Prague defenestration ignited the revolutionary storm of
         | the Hussites and thus the whole European Reformation. The
         | second defenestration in the 17th century plunged our continent
         | into the turmoil of the Thirty Years' War. As is typical for
         | Cimrman, he subjected the term defenestration to thorough
         | examination. In his work Die Fensterpolitik he writes:
         | Defenestration is generally understood as throwing one or more
         | people out of a room through the window. However, this is not
         | accurate. Not every act of throwing out of a window is
         | defenestration. If it happens, for example, during a marital
         | dispute or in the final phase of a dance party, then it is not
         | a defenestration in the true sense of the word. The people
         | being thrown through the window must hold some significant
         | public function. He also asked the question, why did our
         | ancestors prefer to get rid of uncomfortable actors through the
         | window rather than the door? According to him, the old
         | experience, succinctly expressed in the proverb: "if you throw
         | him out of the door, he will return through the window",
         | probably had an effect. By the reverse process, namely
         | defenestration, the danger of returning to function is
         | minimized." (CIMRMAN, Jara; SMOLJAK, Ladislav; SVERAK, Zdenek.
         | Hry a seminare : uplne vydani. Praha a Litomysl: Ladislav
         | Horacek - Paseka, 2010. ISBN 978-80-7432-036-1. S. 368. Dale
         | jen Hry a seminare.)
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | Reddit is obsessed with defenestrations of Prague.
         | 
         | I have a u/DefenestrationPraha handle there and when I created
         | it, I thought "no one is ever gonna know what this obscure
         | event was". Since then, I ended up on the beetlejuicing
         | subreddit quite a few times.
        
       | afthonos wrote:
       | My favorite thing about the plaque is that it explains it's
       | commemorating the Second Defenestration but makes no reference to
       | the first. I'd say it raises more questions than it answers...
        
         | jakubmazanec wrote:
         | The first defenestration in 1419, that started Hussite wars
         | (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague),
         | was far more "successful", because the people who were thrown
         | out of the window actually died.
        
       | jaredhallen wrote:
       | Defenestration is a pretty cool word, but it seems like it should
       | mean removing a window. Maybe boarding it up, or replacing it
       | with a wall.
        
       | julianeon wrote:
       | I credit this event as being The Reason, the only one, why people
       | in the US know the word defenestration.
        
         | philiplu wrote:
         | Heh, sorry to disagree, but that's a big nope. I learned the
         | word in my teens, back in the 70s, from the Arthur C. Clarke
         | story "The Defenestration of Ermintrude Inch" in his "Tales
         | from the White Hart" collection of SF-oriented tall tales.
        
           | thombat wrote:
           | TIL that "Tales from the White Hart" had at least some
           | readership in the USA - I would have feared that its air of
           | post-war English constraints (rationing and London grime)
           | felt almost more fantastical than the accounts of Harry
           | Purvis.
        
         | afthonos wrote:
         | "Defenestration" was also the best slang for quitting Windows,
         | back in the day.
        
       | dkga wrote:
       | Interesting writing, except the mention of "jealously" being the
       | motivation rather than the suppression of religious freedom in
       | the red hot Reformation time.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | > rather than the suppression of religious freedom in the red
         | hot Reformation time.
         | 
         | That sentence seems pretty misleading to me, as it implies that
         | "religious freedom" was something that really even existed at
         | that time. Neither side wanted "religious freedom", they just
         | wanted their side to win by exiling, killing or converting
         | adherents on the other side.
        
           | usrusr wrote:
           | What makes you think that? They absolutely did have religious
           | freedom before [0], just not on an individual level unless
           | you happened to be a lord. And lowborn individuals who didn't
           | have a go at some ecclesial career weren't in a position to
           | require much exiling or getting killed, they just went to
           | whoever was put in charge of their local church.
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Augsburg?wprov=sfla1
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | The link on the Peace of Augsburg is exactly the point I
             | was making:
             | 
             | > It officially ended the religious struggle between the
             | two groups and made the legal division of Christianity
             | permanent within the Holy Roman Empire, allowing rulers to
             | choose either Lutheranism or Roman Catholicism as the
             | official confession of their state. However, the Peace of
             | Augsburg arrangement is also credited with ending much
             | Christian unity around Europe. Calvinism was not allowed
             | until the Peace of Westphalia.
             | 
             | That is, basically this carved up the middle of Europe into
             | Protestant and Catholic areas, but in no areas was there
             | really "religious freedom" as we think of the term today.
        
               | usrusr wrote:
               | Nothing of what happened in Prague that day was about
               | _individual_ religious freedom, that much is true. But
               | claiming that therefore it wasn 't about religious
               | freedom at all when it was quite literally about
               | agreements guaranteeing religious freedom getting
               | effectively revoked (just not guaranteeing it to
               | everybody), that's a pretty wild case of time-traveling
               | goalposts.
        
       | dventimi wrote:
       | The Chapo Traphouse podcast did an entertaining miniseries on the
       | 30 Years War (including the defenestration of Prague) in their
       | Hell on Earth series:
       | 
       | https://hellonearth.chapotraphouse.com/views/podcast/
        
         | smcl wrote:
         | This series was a real missed opportunity for me. The Chapo
         | guys' strengths are in their off-the-cuff banter and the little
         | in jokes that pop up again and again. Large parts of this
         | series involved Matt reading flatly from a script, and somehow
         | fucking up nearly every place name (referring to Magdeburg as
         | _Madge-burg_ was like nails on a chalkboard). I am sure they
         | wrote their own script but that gave the series the vibe of a
         | High-School student reading out a Wikipedia article. When Chris
         | and Matt were bantering about Beer George and such it was
         | great, but the rest was a bit disappointing.
         | 
         | I'm one of the few within my friend group who love CTH (btw
         | definitely check out their companion cast "Chapo FYM" - I've
         | found myself more drawn to those guys and the bizarre lives of
         | the YouTubers they focussed on over the last year or so)
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | A pile of bullshit was called a divine miracle!
        
       | stormdennis wrote:
       | Lots of windows in those pictures, which one was it?
        
         | apienx wrote:
         | Second window (the large ones on the left).
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | jareklupinski wrote:
       | > The flingees survived their fall with only minor aches and
       | pains, being cushioned by the flocculence of a manure pile
       | 
       | a trope is born
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-07-15 23:01 UTC)