[HN Gopher] Game design wiki
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       Game design wiki
        
       Author : janjoseph
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2023-07-14 15:29 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (rosacarbo.notion.site)
 (TXT) w3m dump (rosacarbo.notion.site)
        
       | lelanthran wrote:
       | This isn't actually a wiki, now is it?
       | 
       | Or are we calling any published document a wiki these days?
        
         | 12907835202 wrote:
         | I think people use wiki as a synonym for Encyclopedia now.
         | 
         | But even that would be wrong in this case.
        
           | spoiler wrote:
           | I think the intent was to be like a wiki/knowledge base, but
           | I agree with your and GPs sentiment though.
           | 
           | Aside: is there a wiki platform for things like these? I know
           | there's fandom wikis which feels like the wrong platform for
           | these sorts of things, and that you can host your own, but
           | sometimes that's just overkill...
           | 
           | Do we have a business idea here (with a free tier, obvs)?
        
             | lelanthran wrote:
             | > Do we have a business idea here (with a free tier, obvs)?
             | 
             | I don't mind offering one on a cheap VPS, with restrictions
             | on image/video files.
             | 
             | No need to, though:
             | https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hosting_services
        
             | samtho wrote:
             | Fandom (and a few others like it) is really what you're
             | looking for although the adverting on these sites makes it
             | very user hostile. I don't know if there is a better
             | business model for this other than charging directly. I
             | would probably just do a one-click digital ocean deployment
        
         | pinkcan wrote:
         | anonymous/guest editing does not a wiki make
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | Notion is a wiki engine (usually used for internal company
         | use), so it's technically a wiki, even though editing is
         | restricted.
        
       | pabloarteel wrote:
       | I quite enjoyed "Theory of Fun for Game Design" by Raph Koster.
       | 
       | It has many great insights about what we'd call product or design
       | decisions, but it feels like a philosophy book, and you'll also
       | learn stuff that applies to daily life.
        
         | readyplayernull wrote:
         | For most indie game developers getting resources to keep
         | developing games is a meta-game :)
        
       | OptionX wrote:
       | Kinda parallel to this, if anyone has any recommendations on a
       | good book about game design, more focusing on design patterns,
       | how to structure code, good practices, etc rather than how to
       | program or use a specific engine I'd be grateful.
        
         | codampa01314 wrote:
         | There's a book from 2014 that's all about game programming
         | patterns: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Programming-Patterns-
         | Robert-Nyst...
         | 
         | I pulled it out recently and it still has its usefulnes.
        
           | reidjs wrote:
           | I second Game Programming Patterns! I created a little indie
           | game [1] using the design patterns mentioned in that book.
           | Still not quite complete, (good) games are HARD, but even
           | this small game would've fumbled into a mess of spaghetti if
           | it weren't for what I learned from that book.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.vanlifegame.com/
        
           | OptionX wrote:
           | Oh cool. I actually have read his Crafting Interpreters book,
           | but had no idea he did game design as well.
           | 
           | Probably exactly what I was looking for.
           | 
           | Thank you very much. :)
        
         | digging wrote:
         | I haven't read it, but Tynan Sylvester wrote a book about game
         | design while making Rimworld. I've seen the way he's discussed
         | some of his decisions in public forums and it's always seemed
         | insightful, so his book it probably good.
         | 
         | Out of curiosity, would principles about how to structure code
         | be different in games vs other software?
        
         | doctorpangloss wrote:
         | The best book I've read about making games is the two Blood
         | Sweat and Pixels by a games journalist.
         | 
         | Regarding design, Vlambeer (Rami Ismail and JW Nijman) is kind
         | of the template of the contemporary indie game. Watch their
         | talks.
         | 
         | HN frequently links to stuff that could appear on "Awesome X"
         | lists on GitHub but I don't personally find it very useful.
         | 
         | Honestly you will not find good books about these things. Games
         | culture writing almost entirely falls into the wrong side of
         | cultural materialism: since the vast majority of game creators
         | are still living, talking about them is marketing. Marketing is
         | survival. It's very hard to have a negative subjective opinion
         | about anything to do with games, including engineering and
         | design, and participate in the gaming ecosystem. All of the
         | games industry operates, essentially, under the "Banning the
         | Negative Book Review"
         | (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/30/opinion/banning-the-
         | negat...) premise, in a Darwinian way.
         | 
         | So like if it's a book by a game creator... At the end of the
         | day, they have to promote their game. If they were dead, and
         | someone else were writing about it, okay, the bad stuff won't
         | be omitted, it will be authentically bad. It won't be mea culpa
         | or here's-what-I-learned badsplaining. But that doesn't happen
         | because everyone is still alive.
         | 
         | This is difficult to express because there isn't a succinct
         | humanities idea for this - it's cultural materialism, but that
         | covers a lot of ground - but it is the reason you can't just
         | like, find a book about game development that is mind-bendingly
         | good. It's why there isn't an idea as succinct as The Hero's
         | Journey for games like there is for books. You have to
         | accommodate any and all ideas for making games, not because
         | there's no objective truth to it (there is), but because you
         | might make someone's thing less marketable.
        
           | briangray wrote:
           | I would not recommend Blood Sweat and Pixels. While it does
           | have details on publishing decisions and crunch of making
           | games, it has little insight into any actual game
           | development. It's more of a sensation piece on how difficult
           | games are to make. GP seemed to be looking for design and
           | pattern references.
        
             | levesque wrote:
             | Absolutely, was thinking the same. IIRC it's also only
             | telling success stories, so people burning themselves out
             | but succeeding in the end.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | Nzen wrote:
         | It's not really clear what you are asking for. You term your
         | desire 'game design', but that generally means _the arrangement
         | of systems (ex rules) for a game_ . But, your first list sounds
         | more like  'video game architecture'.
         | 
         | Perhaps Robert Nystrom's _Game Programming Patterns_ fits your
         | bill, as it discusses high and low level patterns.
         | [https://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html]
         | 
         | The _Architecture of Open Source Applications: Volume 1_ book
         | has a chapter on the game _Battle for Wesnoth_ .
         | [https://aosabook.org/en/v1/wesnoth.html]
         | 
         | I found Chris Deleon's _Hands-On Intro to Game Programming in
         | HTML5_ a helpful book of graduated exercises that also
         | demonstrates how to reuse components of previous games.
         | [https://gamkedo.gumroad.com/l/hands-on-game-programming] It
         | is, however, somewhat expensive and I only sprung for it as
         | part of a larger bundled deal. I imagine that you could find
         | similar works, or it might not jive with you. His udemy course,
         | using this as the text, has a preview video.
         | [https://www.udemy.com/course/how-to-program-
         | games/#instructo...]
         | 
         | Perhaps other communities, focused on this topic, might provide
         | better answers [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/]
        
       | codampa01314 wrote:
       | It's exciting to see experienced people in the game industry
       | trying to break down barriers to show how things are/can be done.
       | Everyone seems to do it differently, especially at smaller game
       | studios. It's so easy to get caught in your bubble of how to make
       | games and not figure out all the different tools out here that
       | can pop you out of your comfort zone, biases, and blind spots.
        
       | codampa01314 wrote:
       | This seems like a good start and has the potential to be useful.
       | But some of the documents are hard to consume because it looks
       | like you need more context to understand nuance and how they fit
       | together with other things.
       | 
       | I'm not very familiar with Notion. Will this be something that is
       | easy to expand with Notion or is this the wrong platform for such
       | things?
        
         | lelanthran wrote:
         | > I'm not very familiar with Notion. Will this be something
         | that is easy to expand with Notion or is this the wrong
         | platform for such things?
         | 
         | It's the worst platform for developing a wiki.
         | 
         | Closed software, running on proprietary site, with no edits
         | allowed without signing up to the company.
         | 
         | It's great for company use, but it's entirely the wrong
         | platform for creating a valuable resource of information on the
         | internet.
        
           | codampa01314 wrote:
           | Makes total sense.
           | 
           | Any alternatives you'd suggest?
        
             | lelanthran wrote:
             | MediaWiki.
             | 
             | There is probably nothing better for a technical wiki. It's
             | usually bundled as part of the cpanel software on cheap
             | webhosting sites.
             | 
             | For $5/m or less you can have something professional
             | looking, rather than the notion document linked above.
             | 
             | And if your community can't collectively (eventually) cough
             | up $5/m for the hosting costs, then you don't have a
             | community anyway, so it would be pointless having a wiki.
        
       | guessbest wrote:
       | I used to use sites like this back in the day.
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20120121195938/http://gamificati...
       | 
       | Unfortunately it turned in to a employee training website then
       | went off line.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-14 23:01 UTC)