[HN Gopher] Can you beat Pokemon FireRed while blind and deaf? (...
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Can you beat Pokemon FireRed while blind and deaf? (2022) [video]
Author : xena
Score : 143 points
Date : 2023-07-13 17:42 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| insanitybit wrote:
| For those who have not watched, this is not "I am a blind and
| deaf person, here is how I do this" it is "Imagine that we have
| to construct a program to solve pokemon, accounting for its RNG,
| where that program gets no feedback".
| dang wrote:
| If anyone can suggest an accurate and neutral title that
| expresses that in 80 chars or less, we can change the title
| above.
| insanitybit wrote:
| I'd probably just call it "Solving Pokemon FireRed" but idk
| gooseus wrote:
| "Pokemon FireRed completed without visuals or audio."
|
| That's the first sentence of the video description, seems
| more accurate and neutral.
| sdwvit wrote:
| Impressive. And this is what basically happens during tool
| assisted speedruns, except for here you have to account for
| randomness between demo runs, if that makes sense. Tons of work
| and probably a lot of fun if you have automation for repetitive
| stuff.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Interesting. So essentially a set of input solving the game. I am
| on mobile so I skipped alot to save data but he is successful
| right?
| rcme wrote:
| He's successful except in 1% of cases charmander can't run from
| the first battle(s) with pidgey.
| noah_buddy wrote:
| I have a feeling that there's probably a way to resync in
| every case where do don't run away but that it balloons the
| command set by every by a huge amount each time making it
| computationally unfeasible to complete in real time.
| bonyt wrote:
| Apparently someone got this going on real hardware:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMseY5_YeRs
| rcme wrote:
| This is amazing. For those who don't watch, there are a few
| tricks to make this work:
|
| 1. The start menu doesn't work in battle. So you can press start,
| input directions, and then press start again to move the battle
| menu cursor without moving if you're not in battle.
|
| 2. Because of 1, you never know where the cursor is in the start
| menu. He has a way of deterministically correcting that.
|
| 3. His training strategy relies on fighting trainers multiple
| times by killing their first Pokemon and then intentionally
| losing so he can face them again with the XP gained from the
| first KO.
|
| I'm sure there are many other tricks but I could only watch the
| first few minutes. Super cool!
| __s wrote:
| Training strategy is sped up by using daycare center later.
| Fighting trainer multiple times is also how he gets infinite
| money, since there's a trainer who gives you a golden nugget
| each time you start facing them, even after you lose to them
|
| Things get tricky in a few battles where he can't one shot
| every enemy. Importantly, swapping out pokemon gives opponent
| initiative, compared to having a pokemon faint to swap in the
| desired one. So his team has an unleveled Abra used to faint
| swap
|
| Final team is Charzard, Abra, Gyrados, Lapras, Jolteon,
| Articuno. Rare candy is used to converge xp values & evolve
| pokemon when convenient. Repel is used to avoid random fights
| (which then needs some tricks because there's certain
| situations where repel counter diverges & using repel when at 1
| tick doesn't put it back at 100 ticks, but leaves at 1 tick)
| kinduff wrote:
| This is so interesting, loved how it covers all good and worst
| scenarios on these "parallel universes".
|
| The title does not do any justice to the content though.
| rgoulter wrote:
| It feels like every sentence spoken in the video is the result
| of thorough experimentation or other knowledge.
| jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote:
| Thank you for sharing, this made my evening. For others that
| enjoyed this, I also recommend watching this excellent video in
| the same vein: "SM64 - Watch for Rolling Rocks - 0.5x A Presses":
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A
| stevekemp wrote:
| Similarly there's scripting a Doom level, to simulate days of
| playing to complete that single level - complete with terrible
| frame-rates:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKOMN98DzQA
| rootsudo wrote:
| Interesting, really interesting -
|
| My first realization (and I am going through Higurashi again) was
| this can be applied immediately to Higurashi / Umineko and other
| visual novels that rely on that same puzzle factor -
|
| I didn't realize it before, it was a truly serendipitous
| realization, perfect game and the most basic steps that can be
| repeated ad infinitum to establish an always win scenario.
| valenterry wrote:
| Higurashi / Umineko - those two are just awesome. That's all I
| wanted to say here. :)
| aaron695 wrote:
| A real deaf person would have access to the speakers for the
| vibrations.
|
| Obviously that makes no sense for a machine since it'd be able to
| 100% reproduce the sound.
|
| Pokemon FireRed has no Rumble -
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Gameboy/comments/3o10rk/full_list_o...
|
| I did wonder if there would be any other outputs from the game.
| Heat comes to mind.
| fisian wrote:
| Maybe something like the power led sidechannel [1].
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36331446
| epiccoleman wrote:
| This is so cool - I can't imagine the amount of experimentation
| and work that went into this project. It's also interesting to
| ponder the fact that this could have been impossible without some
| of the various advantages. I love the hacker spirit shown of
| using every little advantage and trick to make everything work
| out.
|
| Part 4 of the video is maybe the most interesting, because you
| really get a look at the planning necessary to make everything
| shake out identically (or close enough) in a battle.
| jonathrg wrote:
| Seems like the level 5/level 6 charmander split could be avoided
| by just losing on purpose by using growl.
| rcme wrote:
| A level 5 charmander increases the chance of being unable to
| escape pidgey and losing.
| Atreiden wrote:
| This is a masterpiece, and I agree the title doesn't do it
| justice. He's literally found an almost completely deterministic
| set of inputs to beat the game. Had no idea you could retry
| trainers you lost to, or abuse the Nugget battle for unlimited
| money.
|
| Great watch!
| charcircuit wrote:
| >Had no idea you could retry trainers you lost to
|
| This is fundemental to pokemon. Else you would have to restart
| the game any time you lost to a gym leader.
| carstenhag wrote:
| Doesn't it tell you something like you fainted or woke up
| from a dream?
|
| It could be consistent with not actually leveling up your
| pokemon. But I think it's not the case.
| rootsudo wrote:
| I remember it says you blacked out in the first generation
| on gameboy.
| saghm wrote:
| If I remember correctly, it says something about you
| running back to the closest pokemon center to heal your
| team. The games show your team getting experience within
| battles as each member of the opponent's team is defeated
| (even letting you gain levels and learn/replace moves from
| those level gains mid-battle, although evolution via
| leveling up is deferred until after the battle), so I think
| it's pretty clear about those gains not being reverted if
| you lose.
|
| I think the main reason that people might not be aware that
| you can retry things with no penalty (other than losing a
| small amount of in-game money) is that most of the time
| people will save right before every trainer battle, and
| then just restart the game if something major goes wrong. I
| imagine a decent number of players have never seen what
| happens when you lose because it's often just as fast or
| faster to just turn the console off and back on and load
| the last save rather than go through the in-game sequence.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Between the two of us, at least one is in for a "wow, I
| really thought the way I played it was how everyone did"
| moment in that I've never even imagined playing the game
| by saving before most battles let alone restarting the
| console if it goes south. That seems more like a
| speedrunning strategy to me, whereas for most of normal
| play there tends to be very little actual risk in the
| battles to worry about.
| staringback wrote:
| Reminds me of "Solving Pokemon Blue With a Single, Huge Regular
| Expression (2018)"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2g9d29UIzk
| csours wrote:
| Wow. It's kind of like a speedrun, but super slow.
| sdwvit wrote:
| Essentially a TAS, but have to account for randomness in demo
| playback.
| csours wrote:
| This makes me think of crash-only programming. If he didn't
| try to avoid variance and just quit, what are the odds that
| he could finish the run? Or like, how much does each risk
| mitigation cost?
|
| If he made it twice as risky, is it twice as fast?
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