[HN Gopher] Is Apple making implausible iPhone satisfaction claims?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Is Apple making implausible iPhone satisfaction claims?
        
       Author : nowooski
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2023-07-13 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.perfectrec.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.perfectrec.com)
        
       | _Nat_ wrote:
       | [This PDF](http://media.wix.com/ugd/bbfb8a_2ea66bffc09b40d099237b
       | b83813... ) appears to provide information about their
       | methodology -- noting it was linked from [this
       | article](https://www.macrumors.com/2015/07/20/apple-watch-tops-
       | iphone... ).
       | 
       | In short, it looks like potential-respondents first had to apply
       | (e.g., in response to [this Facebook
       | post](https://www.facebook.com/Wristly.co/posts/apple-watch-
       | owner-... )), and then they pre-screened potential-respondents..
       | and it sounds like respondents may have had some sort of a weekly
       | commitment?, as the document includes:
       | 
       | > To finish, a big thank you to the 1,100+ strong members of the
       | Wristly Inner Circle- we wouldn't be able to learn so much so
       | fast about the Apple Watch without your weekly contribution.
       | 
       | So it doesn't sound like a random sampling of Apple-product
       | users.
       | 
       | Anyway, then apparently they ask if a respondent's satisfied with
       | a product, giving 4 options: " _Very Satisfied /Delighted_", "
       | _Somewhat Satisfied_ "," _Neither Satisfied or Dissatisfied_ ",
       | and " _Somewhat Dissatisfied_ ".
       | 
       | Then, they add up the first 2 categories as their " _key metric
       | of customer satisfaction_ ".
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | To note it, [this blog-
       | post](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2018/04/20/iphone-x-
       | custom... ) claims to quote " _Ben Bajarin, on the result of a
       | survey of iPhone X owners conducted last month_ " saying:
       | 
       | > When it came to overall customer satisfaction, iPhone X owners
       | in our study gave the product an overall 97% customer
       | satisfaction. [...] Just to contrast that with the original Apple
       | Watch research with Wristly I was involved in, 66% of Apple Watch
       | owners indicated they were very satisfied with Apple Watch, a
       | product which also ranked a 97% customer satisfaction number in
       | the first Apple Watch study we did.
       | 
       | Point being that, while the above PDF appears to talk about the
       | Apple Watch, it sounds like they're strongly implying that the
       | customer-satisfaction figures for the iPhone were largely done in
       | a similar manner -- and, at least in the case of the above-quoted
       | speaker, by some of the same people.
        
         | user_named wrote:
         | Apple is NPD manifested as a corporation. Everything they do is
         | self-gratifying, so of course also this.
         | 
         | "All-new"... Pffft.
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | NPD?
        
             | noisem4ker wrote:
             | Narcissistic Personality Disorder
        
         | nowooski wrote:
         | Hey - I'm the post author. Thank you sharing these details on
         | the Watch survey.
        
           | meepmorp wrote:
           | > Hey - I'm the post author. Thank you sharing these details
           | on the Watch survey. I wonder if 451 Research is doing
           | something similar with their iPhone survey.
           | 
           | Isn't that something you should've researched before writing
           | the post? Methodology seems like an important factor here.
        
             | nowooski wrote:
             | I agree. Apple is making an extraordinary claim and we
             | think they should share their methodology.
        
         | spywaregorilla wrote:
         | somewhat satisfied is an amusing answer. it implies you're not
         | actually satisfied with the product.
        
       | dktnj wrote:
       | Trick in getting 99% satisfaction is asking you about it 30
       | nanoseconds after you bought it or before you even received it.
        
       | wereHamster wrote:
       | Is there a legal limit how much you can fake the numbers before
       | you are held accountable? Seems like Apple is pulling a lot of
       | numbers out of their rear end. See also LTT's recent video about
       | Apple quite clearly faking Mac Studio performance numbers:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buLyy7x2dcQ
        
       | yuters wrote:
       | I'm curious about the stat of the email being opened 73 times.
       | I'm wondering if someone at apple who has access to that contact
       | email address has the option "Protect Mail Activity" turned off
       | on their Apple Mail client or if this is a bug.
        
       | aryan14 wrote:
       | Any situation where a company can be put in a better position
       | with statistics will 99% of the time lead to the company hiring a
       | statistics firm that favours them.
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | Just like how they compare the M2 processors to an Intel iMac in
       | bench marks which in itself is kind of ridiculous, this is
       | unsurprising.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | They do that to encourage _existing_ Apple users to upgrade.
         | 
         | Apple is growing market share but not massively so. Hence new
         | revenue will need to come from it's existing user base.
        
       | arvindh-manian wrote:
       | A number this high is absurd to get in a survey of the general
       | public -- always remember Lizardman's Constant [1].
       | 
       | [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-
       | and...
        
         | dpkonofa wrote:
         | It's not a survey of the general public, though. That's why the
         | OP article is nonsense. This is most-likely a NetPromoter
         | survey. It is a survey of verified iPhone purchasers/owners
         | just after the 14 day return window who decided to keep it.
         | It's self-selective but it's not unattainable like the article
         | claims.
        
           | howinteresting wrote:
           | It is not a NetPromoter survey as clearly outlined in the
           | article. It is a non-representative 451 Research survey.
        
       | pm2222 wrote:
       | If only there's no carrier lock and photos can be backed up
       | easily to personal storage.
        
         | worrycue wrote:
         | Carrier locks are not an Apple-only thing -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock
         | 
         | Seem to be a common feature on most phones. Don't like it? Bug
         | your government to outlaw the use of the feature like
         | "Canada,[5] Chile,[6] China, Israel,[7] and Singapore".
         | 
         | iTunes backups my photos. No idea how to access them though -
         | apart from restoring to a working phone.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | > iTunes backups my photos. No idea how to access them though
           | - apart from restoring to a working phone.
           | 
           | You should be able to go to iCloud.com and log in. If you
           | have the E2E encryption enabled, it will ask you to give
           | iCloud the decryption key, so the webserver can serve you the
           | decrypted files. (This ability can be turned off if you're
           | really paranoid.)
        
         | matricaria wrote:
         | Is carrier lock still a thing in the US?
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | I think it is, but it's not like you can't get unlocked
           | iPhones in the US. I think carriers also are required to
           | unlock your phone if you ask them, but I may be imagining
           | that.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Yes, they have to unlock after contract ends.
             | 
             | https://www.fcc.gov/general/cell-phone-unlocking
        
             | pm2222 wrote:
             | Yes att is fine with unlocking after contract is done.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | If you buy from a carrier, yes.
        
           | RhodesianHunter wrote:
           | Generally it's only a thing any more if you get your phone
           | discounted as part of signing up with or renewing at a
           | certain carrier.
           | 
           | If you just go out and buy a phone outright you can generally
           | use it anywhere.
        
           | pm2222 wrote:
           | It is. I paid discounted full price through my employer and
           | because it's on a business plan it's locked.
        
         | WA wrote:
         | Photo Backup easily: PhotoSync. Been using it for years.
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | that all has worked in the US for 15 years or more, i'm one who
         | has done that at least as far back as 18 years ago, though it
         | might not be what everyone does.
         | 
         | possibly one can get a phone subsidized and locked until an
         | extortion fee is paid, though, or get a phone from work that an
         | employer didn't pay to have unlocked.
        
       | beebmam wrote:
       | I've yet to use a single iphone that I was satisfied with.
       | 
       | My last experience with an iphone was when my GPS began to
       | malfunction and Apple's proposed solution was to have me buy a
       | brand new iphone at no discount.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | GPS malfunction? There's something I haven't heard in 15 years
         | of smartphones.
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | You must be in the top 1%
        
       | asutekku wrote:
       | They are using Google reviews as proxy for customer satisfaction.
       | I really can't take rest of the article seriously after that,
       | knowing anyone can leave a review at Google and there's no
       | guarantee they own the phone.
       | 
       | Sure, 99% satisfaction rate is pretty much impossible, but if all
       | Apple asked was "are you satisfied with iPhone 14" with "yes" &
       | "not at all" options and only surveyed iPhone 14 owners, I can
       | easily see the number being 99%.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | They mention in TFA that even surveying anomalies (people
         | accidentally answering negatively) can't be represented by a
         | 99% figure.
         | 
         | That said, if I had a survey that asked a couple times in
         | different ways if someone was satisfied with the iPhone and
         | they gave conflicting answers, I'd probably simply throw their
         | answer out for being nonsensical. Maybe that's what's going on
         | here: they're teasing out survey anomalies.
        
           | nowooski wrote:
           | I'm the post author. I suspect aside from conducting
           | extremely unrepresentative surveys, they are also
           | aggressively filtering out respondents. I didn't include that
           | since it is purely speculative on my part, but I'd guess that
           | is part of what is happening.
           | 
           | I'd note that other seemingly innocuous things could have an
           | impact too. For instance, if they surveyed only people who've
           | owned their phone for 90 days or whatnot, you would eliminate
           | the vast majority of people who didn't like it and returned
           | it from the sample.
           | 
           | 99% is an extraordinary claim, which is why we think Apple
           | should be more transparent about their methodology.
        
         | goldenjm wrote:
         | I'm quoted in the post. We're using Google reviews as one of
         | several imperfect comparison points to Apple's 99% claim.
         | You're absolutely right about a key downside to Google reviews.
         | The limited information 451 provides on their survey
         | methodology shows that they aren't asking about satisfaction as
         | a yes-or-no style question.
         | 
         | If you want to go really deep on online review manipulation,
         | I'm co-author of this research paper on ratings inflation in
         | online marketplaces: https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.
         | 1287/mksc.2022.135.... If you get in touch, I can send you more
         | papers on fake reviews that I like.
        
           | throw47474777j wrote:
           | > I'm quoted in the post.
           | 
           | Quoted by your employee who wrote the post? At your request?
           | To generate traffic for your site?
        
           | camillomiller wrote:
           | > America's favorite holiday, Thanksgiving, enjoys 82%
           | popularity according to a 2023 survey by Statista. Memorial
           | Day comes in second at 77%.
           | 
           | > The three most popular movies of all time on IMDB are The
           | Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather and The Dark Knight. They
           | have ratings of 9.2, 9.2 and 9.0 respectively.
           | 
           | These examples are so orange and apples it's baffling the
           | authors even came up with them.
           | 
           | You compare the most advanced personal pocket computer of all
           | time with a patriotic holiday (assuming patriotism as an
           | absolute value) or a movie about inmates escaping a prison.
           | Like, really?!
        
             | buffington wrote:
             | That's not what's being compared. It's the rating those
             | things received compared to the rating of the phone.
             | 
             | I think it's fair to include the ratings of the highest
             | rated [whatever] to compare to the ratings of another
             | [whatever].
             | 
             | The author is saying "even people's favorite things don't
             | get such high ratings."
        
               | rahkiin wrote:
               | Better would be to ask everybody who watched Shawshank
               | Redemption: 'were you satisfied with the movie?'. A 9.2
               | on imdb is not equal to 92% satisfaction due to
               | granularity in the answer options
        
         | nowooski wrote:
         | Hey - I'm the author of the post. Thanks for reading.
         | 
         | I included the Google reviews as a secondary example since it
         | is public information. Google reviews are actually more
         | positive on the iPhone than the third party surveys, which
         | found satisfaction rates in the low 80s for 5G iPhones.
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | > I really can't take rest of the article seriously after that,
         | knowing anyone can leave a review at Google and there's no
         | guarantee they own the phone.
         | 
         | > but if all Apple asked was "are you satisfied with iPhone 14"
         | with "yes" & "not at all" options and only surveyed iPhone 14
         | owners, I can easily see the number being 99%.
         | 
         | "and only surveyed iPhone 14 owners"
         | 
         | 451 Research's own statement on their survey mentions _nothing_
         | about owning the phone:
         | 
         | > The findings are based on a December 14th - January 22nd
         | survey of 3,568 primarily North American consumers from 451
         | Research's user insight service, Voice of the Connected User
         | Landscape and its Leading Indicator panel of 25,000 accredited
         | business and technology professionals whose application for
         | inclusion identifies them as having a high wallet share being
         | used for personal technologies, and a high readiness to try new
         | products and services. The service captures consumer and
         | business spending through weekly tracking studies, delivering a
         | continuous view of user perceptions and purchase activity as
         | new products and services enter the market.
         | 
         | And also, how valid would you consider a "satisfied" rating
         | from an iPhone 14 owner who'd never owned anything but an
         | iPhone? There's value in their ongoing satisfaction, but
         | relatively speaking what does it mean? It could just as easily
         | be interpreted as "not annoyed enough to change ecosystems".
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | > And also, how valid would you consider a "satisfied" rating
           | from an iPhone 14 owner who'd never owned anything but an
           | iPhone?
           | 
           | Why wouldn't it be valid? If somebody says they're satisfied
           | with something, take them at their word. There's no shortage
           | of people who complain about anything and everything,
           | especially if they paid money for the thing in question, and
           | _especially_ if they paid a lot of money.
           | 
           | Apple is a single vendor that makes a very small number of
           | models and earned $205.49 billion on iPhones _alone_ in 2022.
           | This excludes a lot of their "services" revenue of which I'm
           | convinced the Lion's share and then some is also basically
           | just iPhone revenue that wouldn't exist without specifically
           | the iPhones tied to them. You don't get anywhere near that
           | for one company on one hardware product division in one year
           | without some seriously high customer satisfaction and repeat
           | buyers.
        
           | photonerd wrote:
           | > how valid would you consider a "satisfied" rating from an
           | iPhone 14 owner who'd never owned anything but an iPhone?
           | 
           | Very? It's a subjective position no matter what but they know
           | their own satisfaction level better than you do, certainly.
        
         | howinteresting wrote:
         | Do you think that (even if that was the survey) it is an honest
         | survey? Do you not care about the richest company in the world
         | being so blatantly dishonest?
        
         | dpkonofa wrote:
         | Yeah, especially when you consider that Apple likely uses
         | NetPromoter as its primary metric for customer satisfaction.
         | NetPromoter only sends out surveys to verified purchasers and
         | the question is a 1-10 scale for satisfaction. Anything 8-10 is
         | "satisfactory". This is not only plausible but likely and is
         | why the rating is so high. There wouldn't be very many
         | anomalous responses of people not understanding the question
         | because the question is literally "Would you recommend the
         | iPhone (whatever model) to friends and family?". That's not a
         | hard question to understand.
         | 
         | This is not a seriously written article.
        
           | FireBeyond wrote:
           | > Apple likely uses NetPromoter as its primary metric for
           | customer satisfaction
           | 
           | The article is entirely about a completely different firm,
           | 451 Research, who actually is not and does not use
           | NetPromoter. They state that they use a pool of "high wallet
           | spend early adopters and technical people".
           | 
           | (For added irony, 451 Research says it's own customers are
           | 98%+ satisfied with them...)
        
           | nowooski wrote:
           | Hey - I'm the post author.
           | 
           | Apple may use NetPromoter internally, but on the earnings
           | calls they are citing satisfaction surveys from 451 Research.
           | 
           | In 2018, they shared some of the response categories from the
           | survey. They are customer satisfaction questions "Very
           | Satisfied, Somewhat satisfied." Not recommendation questions.
        
         | ars wrote:
         | > I really can't take rest of the article seriously after that,
         | knowing anyone can leave a review at Google and there's no
         | guarantee they own the phone.
         | 
         | Do you mean you can't take _Apple_ seriously? The article is
         | _calling out_ this issue, not engaging in it.
         | 
         | > I can easily see the number being 99%.
         | 
         | No, it can't. It's utterly impossible for it to be 99% unless
         | it's fake data.
        
           | sezycei wrote:
           | > utterly impossible
           | 
           | No, it's not. Unbelievably unlikely? For sure.
        
             | threeseed wrote:
             | No it's very likely in fact.
             | 
             | iPhone has been around for 15 years so there almost isn't a
             | person on this planet who doesn't know (a) what it is, (b)
             | what the competition is and (c) whether it's a right fit
             | for them.
             | 
             | So if you're surveying existing users you're talking to
             | people who knew _before_ they purchased the iPhone that it
             | was going to be a suitable fit for them. So of course the
             | survey is going to be highly biased in favour of a positive
             | rating.
        
               | ars wrote:
               | People buy things all the time that are not a perfect
               | fit, just the best they are able to get at that time. Or
               | they are forced into it for other reason.
               | 
               | 99% is not possible. Nothing on Earth has a 99%
               | satisfaction rating - not even breathing.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | There are people who practically worship apple. A new iphone
       | could ship broken and a certain percentage of buyers would praise
       | it as being brilliant. They'll never be unsatisfied with an apple
       | product. There's another group whose satisfaction has nothing to
       | do with the phone itself and everything to do with knowing that
       | it was new and highly expensive and out of reach for many. As
       | long as they can pull it out of their pocket and show it off
       | they'll be happy.
       | 
       | Adding to that, people already have a tendency to convince
       | themselves after the fact that an expensive purchase was a good
       | deal, and that companies pay for fake reviews and I'm not
       | surprised iphone reviews seem inflated.
        
         | nowooski wrote:
         | I do think there is something to the idea that people want to
         | satisfied by something they spend a lot of money on. Though,
         | 99% is a bit much.
        
       | razemio wrote:
       | "They opened our email 73 times, but didn't respond."
       | 
       | This counter does not work right? I know it is a minor thing, but
       | I immediately stopped reading further. I have a problem...
        
         | jonas-w wrote:
         | Later on they said they use Mailtrack [0]. I looked at their
         | FAQ and they just use a tracking pixel. I don't really think
         | that mail clients in a coorporate environment (i.e. Apple)
         | download external images automatically. Mailtrack seems to be
         | confident, that only 5-10% of recipients aren't "trackable"
         | [1], but I haven't seen a mail client that by default downloads
         | external media in a while.
         | 
         | [0] https://mailtrack.io [1] https://mailtrack.io/hc/en-
         | us/articles/360005941037-Why-is-M...
        
           | ridiculous_fish wrote:
           | See my peer comment: Apple Mail really does download external
           | images automatically, on a server to hide your IP address. It
           | then rewrites those emails to reference the cached images
           | from the server. Every tracker pixel sent to a mail account
           | with this feature will be counted as read, whether or not the
           | user opens it.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | Gmail does that too, no? I remember an HN discussion on
             | this many years ago.
             | 
             | Here, I found a corroborating link from 2013:
             | https://www.litmus.com/blog/gmail-adds-image-caching-what-
             | yo...
        
               | jonas-w wrote:
               | Ah I didn't see that one, they mention this on another
               | page [0] (scroll a bit down). But they mention also that
               | it still reliably detects views and that google released
               | a new feature a while ago "dynamic email", which
               | automatically loads but can also be disabled.
               | 
               | [0] https://mailtrack.io/blog/google-email-tracking-
               | gmail/
        
             | jonas-w wrote:
             | Maybe my knowledge about Mail clients is a bit skewed,
             | because I'm using open source Mail clients on every
             | platform (Thunderbird, K-9 Mail, Evolution), and they
             | always block External content by default. But I thought
             | this was the standard today, but I guess loading them on
             | the server is a bit more UX friendly instead of blocking
             | remote content, although I wouldn't want it.
        
           | withinrafael wrote:
           | The Windows Mail app still does this by default. And I know
           | folks that use it over the thick Outlook in corporate
           | environments. (Yikes, I know.)
        
         | minsc_and_boo wrote:
         | Email pixel tracking is an industry standard these days. Every
         | time the email loads the pixel, it counts +1.
         | 
         | Some platforms like Gmail partially obfuscate it.
        
           | razemio wrote:
           | I am totally out of the loop when it comes to these things.
           | My client always opens in plain text or html render with JS
           | and external content disabled. I believe this is true for
           | most clients. On the other hand security scanners, browsers
           | engines and other Middleware stuff can trigger such a counter
           | without any user interaction if I am not mistaken.
        
             | minsc_and_boo wrote:
             | The pixel is just an image, so unless you disable email
             | images loading by default, the server will still count you.
             | 
             | Pre-caching will sometimes mess with the counters though,
             | making the counts lower than the actual.
        
               | razemio wrote:
               | I understand. The last 3 email clients I used do not load
               | images by default (that what's included in external
               | sources [previous comment]).
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | ridiculous_fish wrote:
         | Right, especially with Apple.
         | 
         | Apple's Protect Mail Activity feature, which is on by default,
         | "opens" all emails received on a server, to hide the user's IP
         | address. This causes emails with tracker pixels to be falsely
         | reported as read.
         | 
         | For a while, I was confused why all of my GitHub notifications
         | were being marked as read!
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/ridiculous_fish/status/14604379978667376...
        
       | YetAnotherNick wrote:
       | Apple has 14 days return policy in many countries. Wouldn't non
       | return count as satisfaction? Does Apple announce that number?
        
       | winstonreggie5 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | mytailorisrich wrote:
       | What is "satisfaction"? Minor gripes are still "satisfaction",
       | IMHO. At the price point I would expect someone not satisfied to
       | return the phone.
        
         | hedgehog wrote:
         | For what alternative? My 14 Pro is way too big, and the camera
         | software is meh, but the lower models have really nerfed
         | cameras and I'm too entangled in the Apple ecosystem to switch
         | to Android even if there were better options. 80% satisfaction
         | seems reasonable, most people seem to like the big phones, and
         | 20% of people with some major complaint or other sounds
         | plausible.
        
       | loeg wrote:
       | The original title, "Apple claims 99% iPhone 14 satisfaction. Is
       | that possible? (No). We investigate" (which this was submitted
       | under originally) is less click-baity than the current version:
       | "Is Apple making implausible iPhone satisfaction claims?"
        
         | addisonl wrote:
         | These both seem the same to me as far as click bait goes...
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | The advantage is that the answer to the title question is yes
         | for once.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | I pinged dang to ask him to change the title to match the title
         | of the actual article, because it was obvious from the rate of
         | upvotes and the quality of comments that the title as submitted
         | was inflamatory.
         | 
         | I can't measure clicks, but the pace of upvotes on this
         | submission slowed dramatically after dang changed it: it had
         | reached ~50 upvotes in about half an hour (~100 upvotes an
         | hour), and now it's been here for another hour with only ~30
         | more upvotes (~15 upvotes an hour).
        
       | BSEdlMMldESB wrote:
       | maybe they're also considering the satisfaction of the slate of
       | hardware?
       | 
       | /joking
        
       | ars wrote:
       | I can't remember what it's called (Edit: Lizardman's Constant)
       | but around 4 to 20% of people will give nonsense replies to any
       | survey.
       | 
       | Like if you asked Are you Human? 4% (or more) of people will
       | reply "No" just for fun, or because they don't read.
       | 
       | So you can try to adjust for this by asking a silly question, and
       | if they reply that way ignore their entire survey, but that could
       | lead to issues where they reply correctly on most of it, but
       | false on the "fun" question.
        
       | fsociety999 wrote:
       | I have received Apple satisfaction surveys before and the options
       | are basically this:
       | 
       | How satisfied are you with your new iPhone?
       | 
       | * Insanely satisfied
       | 
       | * Extremely satisfied
       | 
       | * Very very satisfied
       | 
       | * Quite satisfied
       | 
       | * Satisfied
       | 
       | * Mostly satisfied
       | 
       | * Somewhat satisfied
       | 
       | * Neither satisfied or dissatisfied
       | 
       | * Neutral
       | 
       | * No opinion
       | 
       | * Dissatisfied
       | 
       | I'm exaggerating a little to make my point, but I suspect that's
       | more or less how they get these insanely high scores. Also I'm
       | not sure they send the satisfaction surveys to everyone. Probably
       | you have to have a history of purchasing Apple products.
       | 
       | I don't think they are manipulating the data itself as this
       | article seems to suggest though. I think the survey methodology
       | itself is skewed.
        
         | nowooski wrote:
         | Hey - I'm the post author.
         | 
         | Thank you for reading! I don't think they are manipulating the
         | data, rather that they are surveying an unrepresentative
         | population of tech enthusiasts, and presenting it as if
         | representative of the entire customer base.
        
           | throw47474777j wrote:
           | They don't present it as if it's representative of the entire
           | base, nor do they ever compare it to anyone else's metrics,
           | and your claim is based on information openly disclosed about
           | how they create their metric.
           | 
           | The piece is just clickbait.
           | 
           | Your final paragraph is this decontextualized "Quote":
           | 
           | > "We're not calling on the SEC to investigate these customer
           | satisfaction claims, since they have more important cases to
           | go after," Golden said. "But extraordinary claims require
           | extraordinary evidence, and we believe Apple should review
           | the survey results they trumpet on every earnings call. If
           | they truly think they are valid, they should publish their
           | methodology, and if not, they should issue retractions."
           | 
           | Which is inherently disingenuous in the way it is written.
           | (We're not threatening you..) but worse, it's a quote from
           | your own CEO.
           | 
           | The piece is in far worse faith than anything Apple is doing.
           | Please take it down.
        
       | barbariangrunge wrote:
       | Give me an iPhone 5 that's fast enough to run an os that has all
       | the software bloat we have today. Then, stop adding more bloat to
       | force us to buy newer hardware
        
         | asutekku wrote:
         | Ironically, in one of their other articles (also based on
         | google reviews) they claim iPhone 5 is the least liked iPhone.
        
         | rottencupcakes wrote:
         | Give me an Intel Celeron that's fast enough to run Windows XP
         | and then stop changing anything.
         | 
         | Give me a 386 that's fast enough to run DOS and stop changing
         | anything.
         | 
         | I'm surprised you've made it from mailing lists all the way to
         | Hacker News.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Bloat is often just things you don't care about.
        
           | barbariangrunge wrote:
           | What are you talking about? Computers are thousands of times
           | faster than they used to be, but performance is like half.
           | Look up videos of people running old operating systems on old
           | hardware, how everything happens instantly, even without
           | ssds. The only improvement we've had is in games and web
           | apps, and web apps are a mess
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | At what age is it reasonable to assume that a modern western
       | consumer understands that Marketing routinely uses some
       | torturously contorted standards for "truth"?
       | 
       | Family lore: My kid brother was ~5 years old when he bit into a
       | spoonful of a breakfast cereal that he had asked for after having
       | seen it advertised - and unhappily blurted out "it tasted good on
       | TV!".
        
       | rickstanley wrote:
       | Prime Day I bought my first iPhone, iPhone 14, with a good
       | discount and cashback, I was between it and Zenfone 9. Not sure
       | what to expect in general to be honest, but I expect a good
       | battery life and updates, these were two factors that contributed
       | to my final choice.
       | 
       | I'll sure miss sideloading certain apps, but that's the price for
       | a walled garden and security (I guess?).
       | 
       | Let's see if I'm going to be one of the "99%"...
        
       | NineStarPoint wrote:
       | So obviously 99% is impossibly high, but iPhones (and well made
       | flagship phones in general) being some of the most popular things
       | ever made wouldn't be very surprising to me. People's lives
       | revolve around their phones. They're probably people's most used
       | item after their bed. And for the most part they work really
       | well. That 20% of people don't like Thanksgiving and the
       | Shawshank redemption isn't surprising to me, and I don't think
       | that means the iPhone couldn't have higher than 90% approval
       | rating.
       | 
       | (Especially since a lot of people who don't like iPhones would
       | have gone to Androids at this point anyway, so current iPhone
       | customers is a somewhat self selecting demographic)
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Yeah, I agree with that. The article asks:
         | 
         | > If Apple's claims of 99% satisfaction were true, it would
         | mean the iPhone 14 was not only the most popular mass market
         | consumer product of all time, but it would also probably make
         | it the most popular anything of all time.
         | 
         | Is it not the most popular mass market consumer product of all
         | time? People spend their lives on their phone these days, and
         | I've never heard anyone say anything about their iPhone. I have
         | one and it's fine. I'm satisfied. I have end-to-end encrypted
         | backups, the battery lasts long enough, the screen is nice to
         | look at, etc. If I like some sort of tech product, it's
         | probably hard to find people that don't.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | > I don't think that means the iPhone couldn't have higher than
         | 90% approval rating.
         | 
         | I would be surprised if iPhone didn't have 90%+ customer
         | satisfaction narrowly scoped to usage of the phone.
         | 
         | The product as hardware combined with software and supporting
         | services are the best money can buy. Apple regularly pushes the
         | smartphone category forward on fronts neglected by other
         | companies.
         | 
         | That said, consumers seem to think more broadly about their
         | experience than just the phone. For example an unexpected
         | failure of an official or 3rd party case might influence
         | overall satisfaction. The article mentions a 3% difference
         | based on 5G availability, as another.
         | 
         | So without an explanation of the carve out, 99% does seem a bit
         | too good to be true.
         | 
         | Apple should publish how these numbers are arrived at. If its a
         | decent measurement it could help set an evolving standard for
         | the category.
        
         | hiccuphippo wrote:
         | My thinking is maybe iPhone 14 customers are satisfied by it,
         | but I'm satisfied by my phone, not because it's a great phone
         | but because any modern phone has the bare minimum I need to get
         | satisfied by it.
         | 
         | Those people aren't using other phones so they wouldn't know if
         | they'd be satisfied by them.
        
         | goldenjm wrote:
         | I'm quoted in the post. I agree, it is plausible that iPhones
         | have a 90%+ satisfaction rate. Apple's claim isn't 90%, or 92%
         | or even 95%, but 99%. I agree that 99% is impossibly high.
        
       | havelhovel wrote:
       | > Trader Joe's fans will stand in line for hours for groceries
       | but still give the store just an 84% satisfaction rating,
       | according to a survey by the American Customer Satisfaction
       | Institute.
       | 
       | It's tough competition, but I think this is the most absurd
       | sentence in the article. Nevermind the difference between a
       | premium consumer good and a grocery store, my takeaway is that
       | reported satisfaction could be much higher among TJ shoppers
       | without the hours long waits.
        
         | tedunangst wrote:
         | Satisfaction might even be higher among people waiting an hour
         | in line; if they weren't happy they wouldn't wait.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-07-13 23:02 UTC)