[HN Gopher] Telling the Bees
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Telling the Bees
        
       Author : penguin_booze
       Score  : 158 points
       Date   : 2023-07-12 18:21 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
       | Superstitious ignorance.
       | 
       | How could they not know that they needed to twerk it to
       | communicate these messages?
        
         | mkmk wrote:
         | Could simply be a tradition that helps make sure that nobody
         | forgets to take care of the beehives when somebody dies or
         | leaves the home.
        
           | luuurker wrote:
           | I think they're joking. The twerking part is a reference to
           | this:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waggle_dance
        
       | protoman3000 wrote:
       | I know it's only tangential related to the topic, but reading
       | this article just overflows me with this feeling I'm describing
       | below. I didn't voice this out somewhere before, it somehow just
       | started very recently and it's so difficult for me to let go of
       | it.
       | 
       | I can't get over the fact that we all must die. Everybody you
       | ever knew and could be able to know will. You who are reading
       | this message, I, all the other significant people in our lives,
       | all the users on this platform. Everybody who is right now
       | experiencing their consciousness in this universe. All the
       | consciousnesses before - the person in the article who asked to
       | tell the bees about their dead.
       | 
       | It's as if whatever is and ever could be completely collapses
       | once your consciousness is gone. Saying it doesn't make sense to
       | try to make sense about it makes no sense because once it's over
       | it's as if there never was and will be no sense to begin with.
       | 
       | It's filling me with nothing but deep dread, tears, pain and
       | suffering all over my body.
       | 
       | Still, beautiful to see how others tried to cope with it by
       | telling the bees.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | This is arguably bad advice if you're already sad, but in any
         | case, coping for me is all about perspective. I read a book
         | called _The Five Ages of the Universe_ a few weeks ago. It 's
         | pretty fascinating to see a timeline of the entire universe
         | like this and to realize that the Stelliferous Era, the only
         | age in which stars will exist, is so short compared to
         | everything else that ever has or ever will happen. The universe
         | will eventually run out of hydrogen. Black holes will
         | evaporate. If the grand-unified theory predicting proton decay
         | is true, baryonic matter will eventually no longer exist. Even
         | if that one isn't true, protons will still eventually decay
         | because of quantum tunnelling, just on much longer timescales.
         | The accelerating expansion of the universe will eventually
         | permanently causally disconnect whatever is left when we no
         | longer have galaxies from everything else.
         | 
         | All the things people try to save, themselves, their cultures,
         | their religion, their species, the earth, it is all not only
         | temporary, but barely an infinitesimal slice of nothingness, a
         | rounding error indistinguishable from zero on any global
         | timeline. At the same time, it's a miracle we ever got to exist
         | at all. Enjoy what you get and stop longing for the impossible.
         | _Everything_ will die. Whoever or whatever you love, go love it
         | while you still have the chance.
        
         | KineticLensman wrote:
         | FWIW, I am at risk of sudden cardiac death due to
         | unpredictable, rapid-onset ventricular fibrillation. I've been
         | defibrillated twice, the first time after an out-of-hospital VF
         | episode, which has a 1-in-5 survival rate. The second time was
         | by an implanted defibrillator. In that episode I had no more
         | than five seconds from awareness that I was feeling faint to
         | passing out.
         | 
         | I now accept that it could happen again at essentially any
         | time, and that the defibrillation might not work. And yet my
         | life continues pretty much as normal (although I'm no longer
         | able to drive). I still get up, do the chores, enjoy the other
         | aspects of my life, get bored, etc etc.
         | 
         | I've recognised that there is a difference between death itself
         | (which doesn't now frighten me), and the process that causes
         | it. I've now come to believe that VF is actually how I would
         | like to die, when the time comes. It seems infinitely
         | preferable to a slow painful process due to cancer, or
         | Alzheimer's.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | asielen wrote:
         | This feeling is why I just don't get the petty quibbles and
         | politics of humanity.
         | 
         | This life is only one we have so why not make it the best for
         | everyone.What else is the point of life but to live to the
         | fullest and help everyone else live to their fullest
         | (happiest). You can't take it with you, there is no prize for
         | dying with the most money or power.
         | 
         | The meaning of life is only what we want it to be.
        
         | jrochkind1 wrote:
         | Pema Chodron writes:
         | 
         | > When we talk about hopelessness and death, we're talking
         | about facing the facts. No escapism. We may still have
         | addictions of all kinds, but we cease to believe in them as a
         | gateway to happiness. So many times we've indulged the short-
         | term pleasure of addiction. We've done it so many times that we
         | know that grasping at this hope is a source of misery that
         | makes a short-term pleasure a long-term hell.
         | 
         | > Giving up hope is encouragement to stick with yourself, to
         | make friends with yourself, to not run away from yourself, to
         | return to the bare bones, no matter what's going on. Fear of
         | death is the background of the whole thing. It's why we feel
         | restless, why we panic, why there's anxiety. But if we totally
         | experience hopelessness, giving up all hope of alternatives of
         | the present moment, we can have a joyful relationship with our
         | lives, an honest, direct relationship, one that no longer
         | ignores the reality of impermanence and death.
        
         | ramses0 wrote:
         | Conversely: people are basically forgetting "John Wayne" (to
         | name a larger-than-life character of recent memory).
         | 
         | I made a reference a few years ago to "Let's put on the 'Theme
         | Song from Rocky' and get this done!" (in reference to having
         | figured out a bugfix or something for the project of the day),
         | and I was met with blank stares by my (admittedly younger) co-
         | workers. It really kindof broke me for a second that something
         | that was _such_ a cultural phenomenon is currently
         | "unimportant" or "irrelevant".
         | 
         | If "The Theme Song from Rocky" can be forgotten, what chance do
         | I have of making an indelible mark on life?
         | 
         | Maybe John Wayne movies still come on every once in a while,
         | but as a global community, we're losing a lot of "broadcast
         | shared culture" in favor of "unicast, A/B-tested, divisive
         | entertainment", and specifically "entertainment" rather than
         | "culture".
         | 
         | So don't focus on making an indelible mark on life-at-large, or
         | being a larger-than-life character like John Wayne... but
         | instead focus on making positive impacts to the people closest
         | to you, and especially yourself.
         | 
         | <3
        
         | hosh wrote:
         | Well, I can tell you even with beliefs that consciousness (or
         | at least awareness) persists as pure awareness without form can
         | still leave the body with deep, existential dread.
         | 
         | With the bees, it's not necessarily a coping, but also
         | recognizing how life moves beyond our own:
         | https://youtu.be/OGXbOiiaI24
         | 
         | (The front man for that band passed a few years ago:
         | https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/tributes...
         | )
        
         | downWidOutaFite wrote:
         | Yours is a very individualistic view point. The individual
         | can't survive forever, but if you think of humanity as a single
         | living organism, kind of like a mold that has colonized this
         | rock called Earth, then it is immortal. Thinking of it as a
         | single organism allows you to see that, like all life, it keeps
         | itself healthy by having older elements die off while new ones
         | are regenerated. Each individual doesn't matter much.
         | 
         | This point of view is good for thinking environmentally, "we"
         | will live forever as long as we keep the planet habitable. But
         | there's a range of other perspectives between the individual
         | and planet-wide organism. For example, some like to focus on
         | keeping their nation alive, or their race, or their culture, or
         | just their own bloodline. If you elevate any of these it
         | lessens the despair of the inevitable death of the individual.
        
           | protoman3000 wrote:
           | You are definitely right. I would like to add that what we
           | need to make this happen is empathy for each other.
        
         | axolotlgod wrote:
         | First off, I think everyone deals with this at some point. I
         | think, also, since you are always changing as a person, what
         | helps you cope at one point of your life might not work as life
         | goes on. Various things have all contributed, in some way or
         | another, to helping me in the past and present. Most recently,
         | I came across a VSauce video from a year ago:
         | 
         | "Do Chairs Exist?" by VSauce [1].
         | 
         | Now, the thrust of the video deals with mereology [2]. However,
         | the final line from Michael at the end surprised me a lot, and
         | in the days since watching it, has been an extremely strong
         | comfort for me:
         | 
         | "I am not a thing that dies and becomes scattered, I AM death
         | and I AM the scattering."
         | 
         | I think it is worth spending the 40 minutes to watch the whole
         | thing, as makes this line make more sense and extremely
         | impactful. Anyway, this helped me recently, maybe it can help
         | someone else :)
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXW-QjBsruE [2]:
         | https://plato.stanford.edu/Archives/sum2005/entries/mereolog...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | Life and our eventual death is f-ing scary. Anything anyone
         | wants to do to help cope with that, no matter how batshit crazy
         | it is to other people, is fine by me (as long as it doesn't
         | hurt anyone else).
        
           | jksk61 wrote:
           | death is scary because we decided to protray it in that way.
           | What's scary in an endless sleep? From a sleep deprived
           | person pov, it seems like a pretty good ending.
        
             | Animatronio wrote:
             | From a sleep you wake up, from death nobody's sure....
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | I think part of what makes death so weird is that we don't
         | really experience it. We don't really know when it's coming,
         | except for sometimes when it's imminent, and even then it's
         | mostly just guessing. So, even though it's inevitable, most of
         | the time we don't view life through the lens of death, simply
         | because it's impossible to work backwards from.
         | 
         | > Because we don't know when we will die, we get to think of
         | life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a
         | certain number of times, and a very small number really. How
         | many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your
         | childhood, an afternoon that is so deeply a part of your being
         | that you can't even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps
         | four, five times more, perhaps not even that. How many more
         | times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps 20. And yet it
         | all seems limitless.
         | 
         | -- Paul Bowles
        
         | bashd4 wrote:
         | Honestly for me, I almost take comfort in this thought.
         | Everything is temporary. Enjoy it as you can. Nothing will
         | matter soon - so who cares if you make mistakes, nobody can
         | possibly judge you. There is no objective other than what you
         | decide to aim for, so just go and live life :)
        
           | jcul wrote:
           | Me too, I used the wecroak app to send me reminders
           | throughout the day that I am going to die.
           | 
           | It helps bring me back to the present moment.
        
           | jterrys wrote:
           | I went through a similar existential conclusion and tried to
           | impart the sentiment to some of my friends. Reactions ranged
           | from mixed to negative. Some people exist and thrive in
           | structure. It made me a little sad. It takes a certain
           | optimistic mindset to carry this idea forward, otherwise it
           | seems entirely nihilistic.
        
         | f_allwein wrote:
         | Well, the fact that we know we are going to die can also make
         | us appreciate life more, and make conscious decisions how we
         | are going to spend our limited time on earth.
        
         | shrimp_emoji wrote:
         | For me, there's no existential dread because there's so much
         | life after death. In the limit, it's all life, viewable as one.
         | Focusing on who has it when is just petty detail. :P
        
         | specproc wrote:
         | What's beautiful about the tradition is an acknowledgement of a
         | fundamental connectedness of all things.
         | 
         | Some may scoff, but as a young man I had a nice little mushroom
         | trip, topped off with a little baby woodrose in the hills above
         | an English town.
         | 
         | It cumulated in my lying, sinking into the ground. I felt quite
         | profoundly certain that this would be the experience of death.
         | A return to the wholeness from whence I came.
         | 
         | I think back to that experience whenever I'm troubled by
         | mortality.
        
           | osullivj wrote:
           | The Malvern Hills?
        
         | anothertimethen wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | lusus_naturae wrote:
         | What you've described is the human condition--our
         | reconciliation of a relatively short, finite existence with the
         | unceasing passage of time. Time doesn't really exist, it just
         | affects us, so effectively it does exist.
         | 
         | What you're feeling has lead to civilization, essentially. I
         | think the finite nature of a human life isn't an inherent
         | property of the concept of humanity, but I think a lot of the
         | ideals thats we use to define humanity are born from this
         | finite nature (respect for life, respect for each other etc.,
         | the idea of "respect"). Separately, I think the term "respect"
         | has been taken over by game theroretic ways of thinking, which
         | I find disappointing. Such is life, I suppose.
        
         | cuttothechase wrote:
         | Isn't it like between a rock and a hard place. Can you think of
         | an existence where one is never able to die? Or even worse in
         | that your consciousness is never able to stop existing?
         | Somehow, it feels ceasing to exist is a kinder option than
         | existing forever.
        
           | mkaic wrote:
           | I've always felt like the happy compromise would be a system
           | where everyone lives in healthy, youthful bodies for as long
           | as they like, and then dies whenever they decide to.
           | 
           | I am very afraid of death. But I also don't want to live for
           | eternity. I feel like I'd quite enjoy a 200 or even 500 year
           | life though if my body could be made to stay fully functional
           | for that long.
        
             | cuttothechase wrote:
             | I just feel any finite time that we get to live would feel
             | the same way. Even if we were to enjoy a longer youth with
             | perfect health, we would have lifestyles, actions and
             | culture adjusted for that finite amount of time, robbing us
             | of the intended benefits that we purportedly could enjoy.
             | In a way I tend to think, death is what defines a life.
             | With the finality of death removed there is no such thing
             | as life.
        
         | efsavage wrote:
         | While there are plenty of historical thoughts on this, a recent
         | and profound take on it is Everything Everywhere All at Once.
         | If you haven't seen it, check it out.
        
         | geraldwhen wrote:
         | Your only data point is being sucked into existence and having
         | no knowledge if you existed before. You will die, but you are
         | not you.
         | 
         | Have you considered taking magic mushrooms in a clinical
         | setting where it's legal? Simple drugs can let you dissociate
         | to understand that you are not a single conscious being; you
         | just operate like one.
        
         | postmortembees wrote:
         | It's a realization we all have at one point. We all come to
         | different conclusions about it.
         | 
         | For me, I heard someone say something to the effect of "Plant
         | trees you will never rest in the shade of" and like, that hit a
         | weak spot for me. Right through the armor. I changed a lot of
         | my life to go out and restore ecosystems, restore healthy
         | forests, and plant trees.
        
           | seabass-labrax wrote:
           | That reminded me of another saying: it would have been best
           | to have planted a tree ten years ago, but the next best time
           | is now.
           | 
           | https://quoteinvestigator.com/2021/12/29/plant-tree/ (the
           | page also mentions the one you did)
           | 
           | From an ecological perspective, I think it is quite
           | extraordinary that pine trees grow so quickly. Just planting
           | conifers exclusively is not going to reverse all the
           | environmental instability that we have caused, but it's a
           | stopgap method of reducing carbon in the atmosphere that we
           | could implement almost immediately.
        
         | openasocket wrote:
         | I feel similarly from time to time. I refer to it as
         | "existential dread." I'm a Christian, but I'm not free of
         | doubt. And when I have these moments of existential dread my
         | beliefs feel so absurd. It usually starts with immense fear at
         | the thought of death, and of nothing being beyond that, like
         | you describe. But then it spirals into the absurdity of
         | everything. The fact that I'm a sentient ape on a spinning ball
         | just feels ... nonsensical. In these moments the only thing
         | that makes sense is for nothing to exist at all.
         | 
         | I try to take comfort in the fact that, as crazy as it seems, I
         | really am a sentient ape on a spinning ball. My experiences
         | right here, right now, prove that there is something instead of
         | nothing. And things don't have to make sense to me for things
         | to be real. In fact, whatever the absolute truth of the
         | universe is, it's probably too complex for us to comprehend,
         | let alone for us to figure out. Even as a Christian, I accept
         | that large parts of my beliefs are completely wrong, or at best
         | simplifications. Because the absolute truth is something beyond
         | understanding.
         | 
         | I don't know, saying it out loud doesn't feel very comforting.
         | I had a bit of an attack of existential dread typing this out.
         | But I felt the need to share my experience with you
        
         | skilled wrote:
         | I can't give you the very specifics of my own experiences but I
         | would like to remind you that there have been 14 Dalai Lamas on
         | this planet.
         | 
         | Life is very short if you live it the traditional way. By the
         | time you realize what is what (or, what you came here to learn
         | in this life) it feels like there is little time left to enjoy
         | it.
         | 
         | But a lot of this comes down to self-awareness and whether or
         | not it interests you. There are many actively religious places
         | on this Earth (India, Nepal, Bali(!)) who will happily laugh at
         | you for saying we live only once.
         | 
         | And as for me. I distinctly remember when I was five years old,
         | I used to think we could only have one life and my parents used
         | to think that way too. And then you wake up to the reality and
         | you realize that life isn't finite. But imagine if it was? How
         | different would the experience be on this planet?
        
           | protoman3000 wrote:
           | But how do you know the idea that soothes these worries about
           | the end are just hallucinations of this cognition of ours
           | hallucinating in order to keep us going, surviving,
           | multiplying and preventing us from jumping over the next
           | bridge? Just like the bees are just a way to cope and deal
           | with this grave grave pain.
        
         | nathancahill wrote:
         | Here's a song I quite like that touches on that perspective:
         | Yard Act ft. Elton John - 100% Endurance
         | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3HSa4CLO8k)
        
         | enw wrote:
         | Life is absurd. Why anything exists at all is absurd. So absurd
         | in fact I find it unconvincing that life is nothing but a large
         | deterministic automaton without initial cause. Maybe religions
         | are a coping mechanism for deluded people, but I hope they
         | point to some deeper truths that we may never fully grasp.
         | 
         | In any case, pain and other conscious beings are as real as it
         | gets, so no matter how brief one lifetime is, you can have a
         | real impact by making it better for those around you.
        
         | perons wrote:
         | I know this feeling, so hopefully this is going to be as
         | helpful to you as it was for me.
         | 
         | There is a budhist parable called the Parable of the Poisoned
         | Arrow, from a Theravada sutta. You should read a good
         | translation on the "accesstoinsight" website, but it goes
         | somewhat like this: Malunkyaputta, one of Gautama Buddha
         | disciples, asks him to answer the metaphysical questions that
         | were afflicting him (questions about the Universe, life after
         | death and such) - and if Gautama failed to answer him, he would
         | renounce His teachings. To which Gautama Buddha basically
         | responded that he never promised to answer those questions, and
         | the reason is:
         | 
         | "Imagine as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared
         | with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives
         | would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I
         | won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who
         | wounded me was a noble warrior, a priest, a merchant, or a
         | worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I
         | know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me...
         | until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... [lots of
         | "until I know" later].. He would say, 'I won't have this arrow
         | removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded
         | was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-
         | toothed, or an oleander arrow.' The man would die and those
         | things would still remain unknown to him."
         | 
         | So those questions were, in fact, useless. No matter the
         | answer, the arrow was still there inflicting pain. And Gautama
         | follows that by saying that his Teachings were the way of
         | removing the arrow and treating the arrow wound, and not a way
         | of answering those questions.
         | 
         | I'm not budhist, but I read this passage in a moment of my life
         | I actually spent nights awaken because thinking about death was
         | simply too dreadful (it's a very personal background, but I was
         | VERY christian until the very night I noticed after my prayers,
         | at 20 yo, that it was not that I believed in christianism, but
         | I was just afraid of not believing in anything at all), so I
         | was looking into anything I could support myself with. This
         | story made me understand a couple of things:
         | 
         | 1. Someone around two millenia ago also had trouble sleeping
         | because of those questions. That's weirdly comforting, knowing
         | that this is something part of our human condition, and
         | something we've been trying to figure out how to deal with for
         | as long as we became self aware.
         | 
         | 2. The story aknowledges that what we are feeling, this
         | existential dread, is pain. Is real pain, even if a mental and
         | emotional one. That means that we can and should find a
         | treatment to it, philosophically or not.
         | 
         | 3. Most important of all, looking for answers of the kind "Is
         | there life after death?" Is independent of not fearing death
         | anymore. Someone two millenia ago noticed that we can live a
         | happy life and not suffer from the existencial dread NO MATTER
         | your own personal answer for those questions.
         | 
         | Again, I'm not buddhist, and by no means I no longer fear
         | death. I still have my existential crysis now and then, still
         | have some trouble sleeping sometimes. But it's a process of
         | facing this feeling and understanding that it is possible to
         | face our little time alive with human dignity and without
         | feeling overwhelmed by death. We still can treat this pain and
         | live happy with ourselves and our loved ones. Everyone deserves
         | this.
         | 
         | Anyway, hope this helped, even if a little bit. No matter what
         | you believe, knowing someone faced this same problem before and
         | actually discovered a way to live happily is something that
         | soothed me in my worst nights, hopefully it can start something
         | good to you too.
        
         | alangou wrote:
         | I understand the feeling. I felt it often as a child and would
         | run to my parents crying about it in the middle of the night.
         | It's the dread of utter dark--like every light in the world
         | going out at once.
         | 
         | It turns out this question--how do we contend with the question
         | of death?--is one of the most, if not the most, studied
         | questions in human history, second perhaps only to why we came
         | to exist. The collective answer by each of the world's cultures
         | is encoded in myth, poetry, and spiritual and religious
         | traditions. I would recommend the Bhagavad Gita, translated and
         | commentated by Eknath Easwaran
         | (https://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-2nd-Eknath-
         | Easwaran/dp/...). It's not necessary to practice or believe in
         | any particular religion to gain something valuable from these
         | books, nor is it incompatible with science to delve
         | spiritually.
        
           | protoman3000 wrote:
           | Thanks for the recommendation, I will check it out.
           | 
           | I'm already reading the Dhammapada (Gautama Buddha's take on
           | these and many other things) by Eknath Easwaran and can
           | greatly recommend it to everybody as well.
        
       | bbtfan wrote:
       | A song from my favorite band, Big Big Train:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adbrWWnyMKg
        
       | dools wrote:
       | I do this with my servers
        
       | kdamica wrote:
       | It's not mentioned in the Wikipedia entry, but this is also
       | present in Margaret Atwood's excellent book series, Maddaddam.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | You can edit the page and add that nice detail.
        
           | mattlondon wrote:
           | Yeah right! This is Wikipedia! Any edits will be reverted
           | within minutes by bots or the self-appointed "owner" of the
           | page.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | I have added lots of bullet points to the "In popular
             | culture", "In film", "In TV" sections on Wikipedia.
             | 
             | I have never once had any of them removed. Nor can I
             | imagine why anyone would do that if it was factually
             | correct and relevant.
             | 
             | I _do_ make sure to add a single source to a major news
             | publication review of the show /film/etc. that mentions
             | that the work is indeed about the thing or involves it as a
             | major plot point.
        
             | hackernewds wrote:
             | is this hyperbole or actually true?
        
               | CameronNemo wrote:
               | IME that is not gonna happen in a scenario like the
               | described, assuming the claim is sourced.
        
               | seabass-labrax wrote:
               | I have made a modest number of contributions to Wikipedia
               | and Wikimedia Commons. I would say the worst experience
               | was going through a somewhat bureaucratic process to have
               | a page updated to then be ghosted by the person who
               | suggested the process. Eventually I just did a WP:BOLD
               | and made the edits myself, which remain there to this
               | day. The best experience is being 'thanked' (there is a
               | button for it on a page's edit history) by a page's self-
               | appointed 'owner'.
               | 
               | From my perspective, if the edits are uncontroversial, it
               | appears as though the response will be too. Editing
               | Wikipedia is, socially, neither an overwhelmingly
               | positive nor an overwhelmingly negative experience for
               | me. I do it now and then as a purely altruistic
               | endeavour.
        
               | mminer237 wrote:
               | In my experience, it really depends on the page. Some
               | pages will go years with no editors reviewing them, and
               | some articles you will get reverted that same day for
               | literally any change you make. Something like this is
               | probably obscure enough that any change you make should
               | be able to go under the radar.
        
               | PhasmaFelis wrote:
               | Hyperbole. There are certainly jerks on Wikipedia, and
               | it's really frustrating if you run into one, but the vast
               | majority of good faith edits will never encounter this
               | problem.
               | 
               | It's like when someone gets banned from a Reddit sub for
               | a stupid reason and concludes that every one of Reddit's
               | thousands and thousands of mods is an evil power-tripping
               | egotist.
        
               | Der_Einzige wrote:
               | Def true. I've tried on several occasions to fix small
               | issues in the Max Stirner wikipedia page and had them
               | reverted within minutes.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | Love this! It effectively a type of therapy or mindfulness for
       | bee keepers, much like prayers and confession.
       | 
       | I wander if as we all start to use chat based LLMs in our
       | everyday lives similar "superstitions" and traditions may appear?
       | People telling them the things that have happened in their
       | lives...
        
         | giraffe_lady wrote:
         | My intuition is that the AI thing will be a closer experience
         | to journaling than to confession. It's a more convincing
         | facsimile of a _conversation_ , but a bee colony is a living
         | thing in a certain way that an AI definitely isn't right now.
         | This conception is an important part of the experience, in the
         | same way that talking to a mute but living cat is a different
         | kind of experience than talking to a furby.
         | 
         | Though I sincerely practice prayer and confession which
         | ironically probably makes me an unreliable witness to their
         | mechanisms and value in this venue.
        
           | seabass-labrax wrote:
           | You would still be a more reliable witness than someone who
           | has never done so. The ideal would surely be someone who used
           | not to, and can remember how they felt both before and after
           | starting to practice.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | Depends if LLM is local or in Cloud.
        
         | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
         | People are already using GPT for therapy. It's usually pretty
         | compassionate so it's probably not the worst thing.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | A similar thing is done in Chekov's short story _Misery_. It is
       | short enough that you can read it in about 10 min
       | https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/ac/misery.htm
        
       | theiz wrote:
       | This does need the context that you would communicate much more
       | with your hive then just death and weddings. You need to build a
       | relation with them. Ask permission to enter the hive, take good
       | care of them, all that. And yes, there are people (like me) that
       | still do it that way. And yes, I do think our bees / colonies
       | recognise me and my wife as their keepers.
        
         | vintagedave wrote:
         | Could you share more about why you think that, or your
         | relationship with your bees please? How do they recognize you
         | and behave to you? Do they have a group intelligence or do
         | individuals know you?
         | 
         | I ask because I'd love to keep bees myself someday and the
         | relationships people have with bees are something I don't know
         | well, or don't understand, but am fascinated by. (The tradition
         | linked for this thread is one I'm familiar with, for example --
         | but what I don't know is what makes people believe it. What is
         | the experience of beekeeping that leads people to believe bees
         | understand?) It's one primary reason I'm keen to become a
         | beekeeper, to experience and to learn. I'd love to hear
         | whatever you have to say.
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | Also a framing device in Laline Paull's novel _The Bees_, which
       | otherwise mostly features bee characters, and is pretty accurate
       | to what we know of bee's lives and social organization. It's one
       | of my favorite novels!
       | 
       | (Yes, bees don't have much individuality, perhaps she gives them
       | more than they really have to make a book, but it's also part of
       | the fun to see how she succesfully makes a story from characters
       | mostly without much personality or individuality).
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/18652002
        
       | TRiG_Ireland wrote:
       | Evoked masterfully by Terry Pratchett in the Tiffany Aching
       | stories.
        
       | hot_gril wrote:
       | Reminds me of https://aleteia.org/slideshow/the-mystery-of-icon-
       | preserving...
        
       | whytai wrote:
       | I always thought bee communication through "dancing" was visual.
       | On reading more, it seems the bees build up electric charge which
       | interacts with the antennae on other bees.
       | 
       | Excerpt [1]:
       | 
       | > Honeybees accumulate an electric charge during flying. Bees
       | emit constant and modulated electric fields during the waggle
       | dance. Both low- and high-frequency components emitted by dancing
       | bees induce passive antennal movements in stationary bees. The
       | electrically charged flagella of mechanoreceptor cells are moved
       | by electric fields and more strongly so if sound and electric
       | fields interact. Recordings from axons of the Johnston's organ
       | indicate its sensitivity to electric fields. Therefore, it has
       | been suggested that electric fields emanating from the surface
       | charge of bees stimulate mechanoreceptors and may play a role in
       | social communication during the waggle dance.
       | 
       | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waggle_dance#Mechanism
        
       | inglor_cz wrote:
       | Yeah, that used to be done in Czech rural regions, but > 50 years
       | ago.
       | 
       | One distant relative was a beekeeper (indeed a teacher of
       | beekeeping) and when he died around 1970, his wife (born 1922, my
       | great-aunt) would tell the bees.
        
       | GloomyBoots wrote:
       | Likely relevant: https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180319-are-
       | lithuanians-...
        
       | hackernewds wrote:
       | And yes today was another great day of telling the beeeeezzz
        
         | qrush wrote:
         | so glad to know someone else likes watching others save the
         | beeeeezzz
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Telling the Bees_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28667197 - Sept 2021 (59
       | comments)
        
         | jakzurr wrote:
         | The 2021 comments were some of my favorites.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-12 23:00 UTC)