[HN Gopher] BeagleV-Ahead RISC-V board
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       BeagleV-Ahead RISC-V board
        
       Author : abawany
       Score  : 168 points
       Date   : 2023-07-12 15:09 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (beagleboard.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (beagleboard.org)
        
       | glimshe wrote:
       | For a lot of applications this is really not competitive. You can
       | get an Intel/AMD mini PC on Amazon for a little over $100 these
       | days, running fully supported Linux.
        
         | eek2121 wrote:
         | Do you understand that these boards are the size of a credit
         | card? Those mini PCs are far larger than these. I can take a
         | Raspberry Pi and stick it inside a picture frame, for instance.
         | I actually built an e-reader using a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W.
         | Even a full size Raspberry Pi would have fit in the case...an
         | x86 'mini-PC' would not. Sure, I could probably get something
         | x86 that would, but I'd have to spend a ton of money (like
         | hundreds of thousands or millions)
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | If you rip the motherboard out of a NUC you'll probably end
           | up with a board of a very similar size. The laptop style
           | cooler takes up more space than the board.
           | 
           | The dimensions are different (more square, more USB ports, no
           | GPIO) but they're not as big as you may think. A NUC is about
           | twice the size of a Beaglebone with much better performance
           | and software support, plus the advantage of being able to
           | pick your own RAM and storage options.
           | 
           | For something like a picture frame you can easily use a NUC.
           | For an e-reader you'd run into form factor issues for the
           | cooler, but for something that low spec an ESP32 would be
           | even more compact without sacrificing much.
        
           | glimshe wrote:
           | That's why I said "for a lot of applications" instead of "all
           | applications". Many people buy these ARM boards for regular
           | computing roles, such as file server, game emulation etc. And
           | even in embedded roles, sometimes the application can
           | accommodate the slightly increased size, with the MASSIVE
           | advantage of using widely available builds and commodity PC
           | hardware.
           | 
           | Also, check this out: https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-
           | Nucbox5-Desktop-Computer-Windo...
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | That depends, something like this 'GMKTec'[1] is Intel, and
           | not really any bigger than an RPi 4 in a case? Obviously you
           | can get smaller with an RPi Zero W, but in a case it'd still
           | be half as big.
           | 
           | 1: https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-Nucbox5-Desktop-Computer-
           | Windo...
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | 64bits RISC-V: yes yes yes.
       | 
       | H.265/H.264: Where is AV1? Coze risc-v is worldwide royalty free,
       | not h.265/h264.
       | 
       | HDMI: same issue than H.265/H.264, I should see a dedicated
       | display usb-c connector (displayport).
       | 
       | But I am being excessive, it is going in the right direction, the
       | next step is to remove H.265/H.264 and HDMI royalties.
       | 
       | That said, has the GPU a lean, plain and simple C written,
       | vulkan3D open source driver?
        
         | palata wrote:
         | If I may ask (I'm pretty bad with hardware, but learning):
         | 
         | What does "RISC-V" is royalty free mean? Does that make an RPi
         | more expensive because they have to pay ARM?
         | 
         | What do the H.265/H.264 encoder/decoders do? Is that important
         | when connecting a USB camera (converting from whatever the
         | camera provides to H.265/H.264)? And then is it the same thing,
         | i.e. that an RPi is more expensive because it has to pay to use
         | H.265/H.264?
         | 
         | More than the royalties, shouldn't we care about binary blobs?
         | The more open the hardware is, the easier it is for the
         | community to maintain it, right?
        
       | darkclouds wrote:
       | Is this a 100% totally transparent open source sbc?
        
         | Narishma wrote:
         | No.
        
       | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
       | What's up with their pricing? It's way too expensive compared to
       | the competition
        
       | swetland wrote:
       | Okay, so is there actual documentation for the SoC used on this
       | critter? I mean a full Databook / Technical Reference Manual, not
       | maybe 30 pages of overview, maybe a list of register base
       | addresses (if you're lucky), and a pile of Linux kernel patches
       | (upstream if you're lucky, but still of less value to someone
       | wanting to actually write code for / port something to the SoC)
       | or an "SDK" containing a bunch of low quality vendor code for the
       | peripherals.
       | 
       | I'd love to see a RISC-V SoC (not just a dinky little MCU) that
       | has real / complete documentation. So far I have yet to find any
       | for any of the various RISC-V based SBCs that have shipped.
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | In addition to all that, is the GPU documented? Clicking
         | "Request technical specs" on the Imagination website brings me
         | to a page asking me for my business name, business email,
         | business...
        
         | yuumei wrote:
         | Agreed, the best I have found so far is the SiFive Unmatched:
         | https://www.sifive.com/boards/hifive-unmatched which is a full
         | mini-itx motherboard. It's not a SoC though.
         | 
         | As far as I can see, the only thing that isn't documented is
         | the DDR startup/training code, which is a binary blob in
         | u-boot. There are a few registers that are undocumented which
         | need to be set to start up but I think the rest is well
         | documented.
        
           | swetland wrote:
           | SiFive has pretty good documentation for their cores and
           | chips -- they are more PC/Server class (some lowspeed
           | peripherals plus PCIE and Ethernet) than SoC style. The
           | databook does not have register level docs for PCIE and
           | Ethernet but both look like off-the-shelf IP (hopefully
           | documented somewhere -- I haven't investigated) but otherwise
           | seems pretty thorough.
           | 
           | https://www.sifive.com/documentation
           | 
           | In addition to a documented RV64 SoC, it'd be cool to see
           | some RV32 MCUs that are a little beefier -- more competitive
           | with the mid-range Cortex M4 and M7 stuff (more peripherals,
           | more SRAM, etc) -- instead of the existing stuff that looks
           | similar to very tiny M0/M3 devices.
        
         | kramerger wrote:
         | This is a Wujian 600 from Alibaba (!). To my knowledge there is
         | currently no publicly available documentation from the chip
         | manufacturer.
         | 
         | Was the idea of an open ISA leading to an open SoC was just
         | wishful thinking?
        
           | pclmulqdq wrote:
           | Not entirely, but the process is very slow.
           | 
           | RISC-V (and SiFive) caught a moment where it could be used is
           | a way to squeeze ARM on pricing. It doesn't really
           | meaningfully create openness on the interesting parts of the
           | stack (core architecture, SoC architecture, etc.) on its own.
           | In that sense, the hype is overblown.
           | 
           | It does _enable_ open-source cores to some degree, but that's
           | it, someone has to take the leap to make a production-ready
           | one. A few companies are trying, but an open-source SoC is
           | even further down the road.
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | The link they liisted to the SoC is also broken:
           | https://t-head.cn/TBD
        
           | panick21_ wrote:
           | Open ISA is necessary but not sufficent. One step on a long
           | journey.
        
       | flyingcircus3 wrote:
       | I've been very disappointed with the rollout of their most recent
       | board, Beagleplay. There are all of these self-congratulatory
       | videos of Jason Kridner at trade shows talking about they're
       | making Embedded Linux more accessible/simple. Yet 4 months after
       | release, the quickstart guides are mostly notes to future
       | quickstart guide editors, or otherwise describe workflows that
       | don't actually work.
        
         | kaelinl wrote:
         | Yeah, I had the same experience with the BeagleBone AI-64.
         | Their documentation is extremely lacking. To make it worse, the
         | whole point of the board is TI's ML inference accelerator, and
         | TI's documentation and sample code for it are completely
         | useless.
         | 
         | The Beagle hardware is great but it seems to me they just don't
         | have the resources or focus to support the hardware they
         | release.
        
           | synergy20 wrote:
           | I think the newer AI board from beagleboard is "BeagleBone
           | AI" without the "64"?
           | 
           | Anyway I was thinking about buying it, but ended up with
           | buying Nvidia's Jetson instead, due to software and
           | documentation difference.
        
             | reesul wrote:
             | I believe the 64 variant is the newer part. The older one
             | is a 32 bit architecture IIRC.
             | 
             | Jetson has a big edge in software and documentation, no
             | doubt. Poor documentation and SDKs seems to be the norm for
             | a lot of embedded processors, especially for the AI
             | acceleration piece.
             | 
             | I'm curious for this new beagle board if there's enough
             | documentation / software to use the AI accelerator.
        
       | st3fan wrote:
       | Wow $235 CAD. Why is this board so insanely expensive?
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _System on chip: Alibaba T-Head TH1520_
       | 
       | Why is this not a TI SoC?
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | TI does not make any RISC-V processors.
         | 
         | I've been quite happy with the documentation for the AM335x
         | processors on the standard, ARM-based Beaglebone Black.
         | 
         | But the readme at [1] is exactly why I'm reluctant to pick this
         | board:
         | 
         | > Tracking mainline u-boot/kernel with T-Head patches as needed
         | 
         | > Additional SoC details (Chinese language is good) - pointers
         | to licensed IP is fine
         | 
         | > Clear legal path to usage:
         | 
         | >> Verify the IP in the SoC is licensed for use
         | 
         | >> Verify the IP _user_ documentation can be public [emphasis
         | original, why not the developer documentation?]
         | 
         | >> Signed 3P agreement
         | 
         | > SDK source required to test board
         | 
         | > Documentation needs to launch:
         | 
         | >> Additional SoC details (Chinese language is good) - pointers
         | to licensed IP is fine
         | 
         | You'll pay more for an NXP, TI, or ST-branded SOC than for an
         | Allwinner, Rockchip, or "T-head" one, but even if all you're
         | paying for is documentation it's well worth it IMO.
         | 
         | Edit: It's great that the processor core is an "XuanTie C910
         | open-source RTL RISC-V". Open-source RTL, wow! The Verilog is
         | up on GitHub [2]! You'll never get that from TI! But the
         | processor core is only a small part of the SOC, there's a ton
         | of other peripherals and other closed-source, closed-
         | documentation IP to run them.
         | 
         | [1]: https://git.beagleboard.org/beaglev-ahead/beaglev-
         | ahead/-/bl...
         | 
         | [2]: https://github.com/T-head-
         | Semi/openc910/blob/main/C910_RTL_F...
        
           | my123 wrote:
           | Note that OpenC910 isn't the same core as the shipped one on
           | this device. OSS version doesn't have RVV where the closed
           | one that is actually shipped has RVV 0.7.1 for example.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | Agreed. And in addition to these development feasibility,
           | sustainability, and open source concerns/requirements, some
           | applications will also have to look at provenance.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | TI doesn't make RISCV anything.
         | 
         | It's why they called it the BeagleV ;)
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | Nitpicking but they really need to have someone proofread their
       | copy.
        
       | magios wrote:
       | $150-$180 seems expensive for 4gb ram and 16gb flash when you can
       | get an sbc with the same soc, the sipeed licheepi 4a with 16gb of
       | ram and 128gb flash for $180, or $120 for 8gb ram and 8gb flash,
       | or $135 for 8gb ram and 32gb flash
        
         | rcarmo wrote:
         | I came here to say exactly that. Right now ARM SBCs (especially
         | the RK3588 ones) are pretty competitive -- but, ironically, so
         | are Intel 5xxx and N100 mini-PCs.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | do those SBCs have digital IO (GPIOs) and a realtime operating
         | system?
         | 
         | The reason I'd buy a Beagle (well, really an ESP32) isn't the
         | price, it's the convenience of havng real time GPIOs.
        
           | johnwalkr wrote:
           | I don't think this one does, but the other models such as
           | beaglebone black have 2, 200Mhz microprocessor cores that can
           | access GPIO and shared memory in realtime (without an RTOS).
           | It's a killer feature, you can have the best of both worlds.
           | For example, a python program running in userspace,
           | interacting with a microcontroller doing GPIO stuff quickly
           | and in realtime.
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | I known the BB can do this. T he question is if any of
             | those SBCs do realtime gpios. Raspi SBCs have gpios but you
             | can't trivially write an interrupt handler than runs in
             | kernel space
        
         | progbits wrote:
         | How's the software support for sipeed stuff?
         | 
         | Every time I opted for cheaper clone of beagleboard or RPi I
         | ended up regretting it when I inevitably had to spend hours
         | building custom kernel patches and struggling to get it working
         | reliabily. The more expensive boards usually work out of the
         | box with mainline kernel.
         | 
         | For some that can be worth the extra $50.
        
           | magios wrote:
           | well, if the soc is the same, thus same cpu, gpu, and npu,
           | kernel and userspace support should be also roughly equal,
           | tho the device tree will differ between the two devices. i do
           | agree that many of these sbc computers have poor initial
           | support and many end up remaining that way. perhaps we should
           | be requiring that mainline linux support, and working drm
           | drivers, for gpu, exist before the product is released.
        
             | mat_epice wrote:
             | Who should require it? And how will it be enforced?
        
             | progbits wrote:
             | If it is just device tree that should be less painful, and
             | probably also faster to upstream.
             | 
             | I'm just hesitant to buy one of those without having some
             | 3rd party confirm everything works well out of the box, and
             | the more obscure the device the harder to find such
             | accounts.
        
         | riskable wrote:
         | As someone who's bought many RPi-like boards and clones let me
         | tell you: Minor differences in price/performance are
         | unimportant. There's another factor that's _so much_ more
         | important it makes boards like the Beaglebone and RPi seem like
         | ultra high performance bargains in comparison: Software /kernel
         | support.
         | 
         | Every goddamned RPi-like SBC seems to require a very, _very
         | specific_ version of the Linux kernel that has been patched to
         | hell and back. Almost always bundled with binary blobs
         | /firmware that _only_ work with that very specific version of
         | the kernel.
         | 
         | None of these patches get upstreamed and the binary blobs/ultra
         | proprietary who-knows-wtf-its-doing _required_ firmware never
         | get updated after the release. This means that you 'll be stuck
         | with whatever version of the kernel that shipped with the
         | device _forever_. Complete with all the bugs and
         | vulnerabilities that get discovered later.
         | 
         | Never again! Either the vendor needs a history of staying on
         | top of things or they need to make some serious promises about
         | upstreaming kernel patches and drivers.
         | 
         | Example of a terrible SBC vendor you should never buy from:
         | Orange. All the OrangePi SBCs are exactly as I described. You
         | can expect any bug or security issue that exists at release to
         | be a problem with that board _forever_. They will never get
         | fixed. They might release an update or two within a few months
         | of release (if it 's real bad) but that's all you'll ever get.
        
           | joezydeco wrote:
           | As someone that has actually shipped RPi-like boards and
           | clones, I'll tell you that it's just part of the job
           | description.
           | 
           | They ALL suck, some just suck less than others. Broadcom,
           | Renesas? The worst. ST, NXP, TI? Slightly better than fully
           | sucking. Look to the chipmaker (ST, NXP) and not the board
           | maker (Orange) for a guide in how well things go.
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | But the RPi _is_ broadcom and arguably the best supported.
             | Obviously this is special.
             | 
             | From experience I agree with you, the chipmakers suck
             | because they utterly fail to be open source when they're
             | one of the groups that needs it the most. It is to the
             | extent that I would advocate for laws in the theme of
             | right-to-repair to force chip vendors to provide source for
             | necessary code to use their products to consumers. (in this
             | case open source in the narrowest definition, they can keep
             | their copyrights but would be required to distribute source
             | to end users in a form and with a license that makes them
             | usable)
             | 
             | If the question is "are any of the SBCs worth the trouble?"
             | and the default answer is no unless I have a really good
             | reason and want to dedicate the time to building the janky
             | software stack (I don't), or they're from a small list of
             | vendors I'd trust won't be a mess (RPi, nvidia, beagle, ...
             | that's it off the top of my head)
        
               | joezydeco wrote:
               | Were the kernel and BSP improvements and ongoing support
               | for RPi produced by Broadcom, or by the user community?
        
               | colechristensen wrote:
               | There is some sort of close relationship between Broadcom
               | and the raspberry pi foundation which is not entirely
               | clear, they are a bit more than just customers although
               | companies use the "partnership" label to mean just about
               | anything.
        
               | joezydeco wrote:
               | The relationship is very clear: Upton was a Broadcom FAE
               | that started the RPi Foundation. The secondary story was
               | that he found a use for an orphaned SoC and embarked on
               | an 'educational' quest to make small computers for
               | classrooms.
               | 
               | The real question is if Broadcom is devoting internal
               | software resources to improving the ecosystem, or if it's
               | coming from the devoted users. I don't track commits on
               | kernel.org enough to know what's what.
        
             | tmchu wrote:
             | Please excuse my ignorance here, but are you saying that
             | the board makers have no say on what chip they want to
             | incorporate into their board? And those chips firmware are
             | not open or at least accessible to the board makers?
        
               | joezydeco wrote:
               | What I'm saying is treat the board as a development
               | harness to get your project going. If you have issues
               | with the processor don't take it up with the board maker
               | because they're usually just as clueless. The exception
               | would be boards like RPi or Beagle where the designers
               | are tight with or owned by the chipmakers themselves.
        
               | jvanderbot wrote:
               | Right, which is what GP was saying: stick to those that
               | are able to support longer than zero time horizon.
        
               | joezydeco wrote:
               | But the fundamental difference here is that most people
               | buying SBCs are treating them as self-contained COTS
               | compute modules.
               | 
               | As someone that has worked with these EVKs for decades,
               | you _never_ treated them as part of your final product.
               | But with the advent of Beagle and RPI, that 's where we
               | are now.
               | 
               | But when you buy an RPi or Beaglebone as the core of your
               | industrial smelter and expect support for that module
               | comparable to, say, a module from Kontron? You're going
               | to be disappointed.
        
               | jvanderbot wrote:
               | Support is the S in IOT.
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | I thought that.... oh, Security is the _other_ S. Got it!
        
               | opless wrote:
               | Board support packages very rarely get updated and
               | usually target a very specific kernel version.
               | 
               | You move off that kernel version, no BSP, no boot. sad
               | times.
               | 
               | This is one reason why you don't get android phones
               | supported past the android release shipped.
               | 
               | You're completely at the mercy of the SoC provider.
               | Promises of 'n' years support are quite often quietly
               | dropped after 18 months, when they realise all the
               | engineers have moved to working madly to get the latest
               | SoC's BSP out of the door.
               | 
               | Rinse and repeat.
        
               | KingLancelot wrote:
               | [dead]
        
           | magios wrote:
           | i agree, that is a problem, mainline linux and working drm,
           | that is direct rendering manager, drivers should exist before
           | release of the product.
        
           | bagels wrote:
           | Beaglebone Black is used in industrial applications. At
           | scale, those price differences add up.
        
             | cozzyd wrote:
             | yes, especially because there is an industrial variant that
             | works down to -40 C. We use them in our detectors in
             | Greenland. rpi's sometimes work at low temperatures, but
             | are not spec'd for it (plus they use tons of power compared
             | to the BBB).
        
               | bagels wrote:
               | Yes, for the application I used them in, we were
               | concerned about both the upper and lower limits (heat
               | from operation + cold when turned off in the winter).
               | Outdoor installation, with hundreds of units per site.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | I keep saying, the first cheap Chinese manufacturer that
           | ships a SystemReady board is going to slaughter the
           | competition.
        
           | jona-f wrote:
           | Wait, I used OrangePi's with Allwinner chips before precisely
           | cause of their cheap price and mainline linux support. At the
           | time (~5 years ago) Rpi was worse, foss-wise. Here is a wiki
           | documenting the efforts: https://linux-
           | sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort What am i missing?
        
             | Cyder wrote:
             | i use orangepi prime boards in production as remote NIDS. i
             | used Armbian (a great debian porting project that does what
             | the maker should have done ) until orange released their
             | Debian 10 img. I put an endurance rated sdcard in those pis
             | and they run like the little pink bunny! Love these little
             | orangepis. I have tried a handful of other boards ( beagle,
             | raspberry, banana , have a whole stack. too many to
             | remember) but the oranges are solid. On a lot of these
             | little SoCs, you can use the raspberry pi gpio software
             | since many of these boards follow the same gpio standard &
             | plug in/out.
        
           | eek2121 wrote:
           | The VisionFive 2 developers are working on getting things
           | upstreamed/open-sourced for their board. IIRC the kernel has
           | already mainlined many (if not all) of the patches.
           | 
           | Some of the real issues are as follows:
           | 
           | 1) Most companies use Debian as a base. Debian has a
           | notoriously slow release cycle. This means it takes loads of
           | time to submit patches -> get approval -> get merged in a
           | merge window -> wait for debian to use new kernel with new
           | code.
           | 
           | 2) The GPU situation is a mess. No decent (compatible)
           | vendors with open source GPU drivers exist. Imagination is
           | said to be working on open source drivers, but with no real
           | release date, we are stuck using closed source blobs. Once
           | drivers and Mesa get updated, we then have to wait for a new
           | release of Debian to pick these up.
           | 
           | 3) Far fewer people use these boards over a Raspberry Pi.
           | This means community support takes longer to develop. The VF2
           | has other distros like Arch and Ubuntu, for example, but no
           | real active community behind them. Last I checked, hardware
           | GPU acceleration was not working in these distros.
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | Surely this:
       | 
       |  _50GFLOPS, 3Mpixel /s Imagination BXM-4-64 graphics processing
       | unit (GPU)_
       | 
       | Has got to be a typo? 3 million pixels per second is not very
       | impressive, to understate things a bit.
       | 
       | Edit: also, in Sweden Digi-Key want almost $180 for this which
       | was more than I expected. Wow.
        
       | WatchDog wrote:
       | Any benchmarks of the CPU?
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | No USB-C port.
       | 
       | No NVME port.
       | 
       | Price tag is too high.
       | 
       | Shame because the rest of the H/W looks nice.
        
       | Jamesmoorez wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Ah Beagleboard, what everyone was reaching for, before Arduino
       | and Raspberry Pi got famous.
        
       | nvy wrote:
       | I have a few Beaglebone Blacks kicking around the house and
       | they're great. I've always felt the Beagle boards were superior
       | to Raspberry Pis, and that the RPi mostly succeeded because of
       | better marketing and outreach efforts.
       | 
       | It's nice to see the project still chugging along
        
         | rootbear wrote:
         | The linux image on the beagleboard site for the Black is three
         | years old. Is it possible to just boot generic ARM linux on the
         | Black now? Is there another site for official images?
        
         | m0th87 wrote:
         | I've heard Beaglebone Blacks are great (never used them), but
         | have to say the experience with Blue was awful. I had a
         | hardware defect that's apparently commonplace. It gave me the
         | feeling (maybe unjustified) that there's a low bar for slapping
         | the Beaglebone label on a product. In contrast, none of my
         | several RPi's have had any hardware issues, and I'm pretty
         | brutal with them.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | PRU aside, BeagleBoards/Bones mount eMMC memory which offers
         | much higher reliability compared to microSD cards. RPis are
         | great for tinkering and prototyping, but I wouldn't feel safe
         | employing them where uptime is important.
        
           | tracker1 wrote:
           | Agreed there, I've seen horrible reliability on (micro)SD
           | cards for these little project boards. For RPi, usually use
           | SSD over USB for primary boot, there are some nice case
           | options for this, if you don't mind the space.
           | 
           | Over the pandemic, started using more of the mini intel boxes
           | in the sub-$300 space, just because of availability and price
           | gouging.
        
           | genmud wrote:
           | You can get CM4s with eMMC memory now, but if I was doing a
           | CM4, might as well just use an nvme ssd.
        
         | 542458 wrote:
         | I'd also say it's that the RPis are generally much cheaper and
         | also offer (subjectively) better I/O.
         | 
         | For example, A BeaglePlay costs about twice what a Pi 4 Model
         | B/4GB does in my local market. The BeaglePlay has half the ram,
         | only one USB 2 port to the Pi's two, none of the Pi's USB 3
         | connectors, way fewer GPIOs, only one HDMI, no audio, etc. I do
         | like that BeagleBoards have onboard flash though.
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | > I'd also say it's that the RPis are generally much cheaper
           | 
           |  _IF_ you can actually get one. That 's a _REALLY_ big _IF_.
           | 
           | RPis have been subsidized for a long time. The fact that the
           | subsidy is gone means that they don't seem to be willing to
           | release them to we plebians very much anymore. They're fine
           | releasing them to T-Mobile, though.
           | 
           | Anybody not a pure hobbyist left the RPi space long ago.
        
             | mlyle wrote:
             | > Anybody not a pure hobbyist left the RPi space long ago.
             | 
             | Actually, the constrained supply is because during COVID
             | and aftermath they decided to support industrial customers
             | to the detriment of hobbyist supply.
             | 
             | They're currently cranking out a million units per month
             | and supply is returning to retail. https://rpilocator.com/
             | was completely bare a few weeks ago, and now there's a lot
             | of retailers with stock (though it's still not where it
             | should be).
        
           | cozzyd wrote:
           | It depends on the application. BBBs come in industrial
           | variants (the Pis don't, so good luck using them in certain
           | contexts), and have more UARTs, i2c and SPI buses, not to
           | mention the PRUs...
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | My favorite part of the BeagleBoard are the PRU's: two little
           | 200Mhz realtime coprocessors. [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://beagleboard.org/pru
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | I dont see PRUs mentioned for this one tho
        
               | cozzyd wrote:
               | they're a TI thing, so very unlikely they exist here
        
           | spott wrote:
           | BeaglePlay also has sub-1Ghz wireless, (along with 2.4Ghz
           | programmable wireless), a PRU (essentially a built-in
           | microprocessor suitable for realtime I/O work). The core
           | processor supports CAN, and a bunch of other features, but
           | I'm not sure if these are broken out in a way that is usable.
           | 
           | Beagleboards are just different than RPis. They aren't really
           | trying to be the same thing. RPis are small computers with
           | simple GPIO meant for turning on and off things, Beagleboards
           | are computer/microprocessor hybrids with GPIO meant for doing
           | realtime I/O.
        
             | jgalt212 wrote:
             | Are PRUs their version of the RP 2040's Programmable IO
             | (PIO)?
        
               | MisterTea wrote:
               | The 2040's PIO is indeed similar but the PRU has features
               | the PIO doesn't like IOs directly wired to CPU register
               | bits so the result of an instruction is immediately
               | available on IO lines.
               | 
               | edit: also Ti's PRU has been around waaaay longer than
               | the RP2040 so the PRU is likely an inspiration for the
               | PIO.
        
               | nvy wrote:
               | PRU stands for Programmable Real-time Unit.
               | 
               | The soc on the original Black had two 200MHz PRUs which
               | ran independently of the main processor and could be used
               | for signalling and sensing tasks that require tight
               | timing guarantees, and can then trigger interrupts on the
               | main CPU.
        
               | jgalt212 wrote:
               | so yes, then.
        
               | m00x wrote:
               | It's kind of a middle ground, it looks more like a
               | barebones MCU.
               | 
               | RP2040's PIO is extremely limited with only 9 available
               | instructions, this looks a bit more involved, but
               | functionally it's very similar.
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | > RPis are small computers with simple GPIO meant for
             | turning on and off things,
             | 
             | Maybe you didn't mean this in a way to diminish how handy
             | Raspberry Pis are, but I've used it in tons of situations
             | that are more interesting than turning LEDs on and off. It
             | being a usable computer is icing on the cake. I have RPis
             | for all kinds of things: Home Assistant using the Bluetooth
             | module (+ external Z-wave/Zigbee controller via USB),
             | OpenJVS for running arcade I/O emulation (GPIO for serial
             | communication), I doubt I need to explain how useful it is
             | to have a FlashROM setup, I've gotten a Pi to drive a
             | Commodore SID...
             | 
             | I can see based on the RPi Pico which seems to have similar
             | functionality to the Beagleboard in terms of I/O that in
             | fact there is so much more that COULD be done, and I'm glad
             | that we have these now. That said, I don't want people to
             | think that RPi is a toy! Having a moderately powerful small
             | form factor computer connected to all of this I/O lets you
             | do things that you couldn't even when GPIO is involved. Not
             | to mention, you can bitbang the GPIO really fast on a
             | Raspberry Pi, which can come in handy.
        
             | RF_Savage wrote:
             | CAN is likely doable via the PRU's.
        
             | 542458 wrote:
             | > Beagleboards are just different than RPis.
             | 
             | Yeah agreed, and I don't think I communicated that in my
             | comment above. It's not that the Pi is universally better
             | in all cases, but it is better suited for many common
             | consumer applications... Which logically leads to it being
             | the higher selling device.
        
       | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
       | "2GHz quad-core RISC-V 64GCV Xuantie C910 central processing unit
       | (CPU)"
       | 
       | The datasheet doesn't mention Vector (V) extension support. Is
       | this an error on the Beagleboard page?
        
         | camel-cdr wrote:
         | Maybe it's because the C910 + V is now sometimes called C920, I
         | think they changed their branding on that.
        
         | linmob wrote:
         | No, unfortunately not - the TH1520 SoC comes with some Vector
         | extension support - but rev 0.7 (IIRC), not 1.0 which one would
         | rather want.
        
           | camel-cdr wrote:
           | Note that there are currently no consumer rvv 1.0 cores out
           | there. You also can't expect much support for pre
           | ratification rvv. I needed to patch vector support into the
           | ubuntu build for my MangoPi MQ pro board, and use an old
           | toolchain to be able to compile and test my rvv 0.7.1 code.
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | Overall nice looking board.
       | 
       | I used to scoff at PowerVR GPUs as being unsupportable &
       | worthless, but progress has been quite good lately. Only 3 SoC
       | supported & not this but porting should go relatively smoothly
       | now.
       | 
       | Price feels high.
       | 
       | Elephant in the room: what the heck is that USB micro 3.0
       | connector doing there? Yikes! What an ugly relic. And that's the
       | only USB on the board.
        
         | prabhu-yu wrote:
         | Agree, Any reason why is the Type-C not used?
        
         | johnwalkr wrote:
         | Yeah, that is my comment as well. It looks like it's also not
         | enough to power it, you need to use the barrel jack.
         | 
         | On the original beaglebone and beaglebone black, a nice feature
         | is you can connect it by microusb, and this provides power to
         | the board but also bridges your internet connection. So with
         | one cable you get power, ssh into the device, and an internet
         | connection on the device.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | Yet another TH1520 board.
       | 
       | Note there's several, by different vendors, with different
       | connectivity (e.g. PCIe, M2, wifi/bt) and RAM (4-16GB range).
       | 
       | The CPU is a XuanTie C910, which is somewhat faster than SiFive
       | U74 used in the JH7110 (VisionFive2), and adds pre-spec vector
       | extension (0.7.1).
       | 
       | I would still recommend VisionFive2 or Star64 to most people, due
       | to its maturity and much better upstream support[0].
       | 
       | 0. https://rvspace.org/en/project/JH7110_Upstream_Plan
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | Here is Beagle board list:
       | 
       | https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/videos/comparin...
       | 
       | At the moment I have no plan to acquire yet another beagleboard,
       | i.e. this BeagleV, a bit pricey for potential projects at scale,
       | and I don't need those media related ports, though the AI NPU
       | seems nice for edge AI.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-12 23:00 UTC)