[HN Gopher] Keep Linux Open and Free-We Can't Afford Not To
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Keep Linux Open and Free-We Can't Afford Not To
        
       Author : geerlingguy
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2023-07-10 15:11 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.oracle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.oracle.com)
        
       | temptemptemp111 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | red-iron-pine wrote:
       | > Keep Linux Open and Free-We Can't Afford Not To
       | 
       | > Oracle.com
       | 
       | Oracle is telling someone to keep it free and open? LOL.
        
       | gunapologist99 wrote:
       | > Finally, to IBM, here's a big idea for you. You say that you
       | don't want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here's how you can
       | save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream distributor of
       | Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the burden.
       | 
       | Not only is this a brilliant troll, it's also true. Oracle could
       | easily take this on if it's such a burden for IBM.
        
       | nontiko wrote:
       | I know these are not the same situation, but this sounds like a
       | different Oracle than the one that owns and manages Java.
        
       | freedude wrote:
       | I don't want to like Oracle, so I won't. However, what they said
       | minus the business/political propaganda is spot on.
        
       | evan1107 wrote:
       | Yeah this is just opportunistic PR. Oracle cares less about Open
       | Source than even the most brain dead Red Hatter. As with all
       | things Oracle, they are taking the angle that potentially creates
       | a revenue opportunity for themselves. This is fine. I get it but
       | doing it under the guise of higher open source ideals is
       | comically transparent. Their OEL market share mostly consists of
       | them targeting specific Red Hat accounts and severely
       | undercutting RHEL costs (since Red Hat incurs significantly more
       | development burden and costs) and using it as a launch pad to
       | embed myriad other Oracle products within the customer ecosystem.
       | Other products that conveniently aren't grounded in their
       | supposed open source ideals.
        
         | D13Fd wrote:
         | I agree with your blind hatred of Oracle. But you have to
         | admit, this is pretty epic inter-company trolling, and what
         | Oracle says in its post is basically right.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | And to be fair, Oracle has been a remarkably good steward of
         | Java. It's truly amazing how fast and far Java has come since
         | the Java 7 and Java 8 days. It's been on a rocket sled of
         | development, while still being shockingly well behaved for
         | earlier code. If there's any critique, it's "too fast". But
         | that's nonsense, since the LTS work helps maintain stability.
         | 
         | And it's pretty wide open. They keep some things close to their
         | vest, which is their prerogative, but even some of that stuff
         | has been opening up over time as well.
         | 
         | It's not been a seamless transition, but it's not been awful
         | either. Developers are managing.
         | 
         | It could have been far, far worse.
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | Couldn't agree with this more--though I wasn't a fan of their
           | lawsuit against Google for how Java was used in Android.
        
           | stcroixx wrote:
           | If my choices for Linux end up IBM or Oracle, I'll pick
           | Oracle.
        
             | timbit42 wrote:
             | You will have more than two options so there is no need to
             | choose either of those two.
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | > Oracle has been a remarkably good steward of Java
           | 
           | Well, other than ramming through modules and the --add-opens
           | fiasco from Java 9.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | How Oracle handles Java (business-wise, not in technological
           | terms) is one of the things that tells me that Oracle is
           | still the toxic company it's always been.
        
             | delfinom wrote:
             | They also buried a call home into the VBox Guest Extensions
             | and eventually started sending legal demands to companies
             | as well. Because while VBox was open license, the VBox
             | Guest Extensions have a non-commercial use license by
             | default but that doesn't stop VBox from asking you to
             | install them innocently on the first run.
             | 
             | Also 3 years ago, the guy in charge of a Oracle database we
             | had (now migrated to MSSQL) accidentally downloaded the
             | wrong Oracle database software from their portal. It turns
             | out Oracle just lets you download any variant in their
             | portal and then just send you legal demands for payment
             | when you accidentally use a higher tier than you licensed.
             | Something they can absolutely fix themselves to prevent. Of
             | course we told them to fuck off since we didn't use any
             | feature specific to the other tier and deployed the correct
             | variant.
        
               | chasil wrote:
               | Assuming that you are using the Standard Edition/2 of the
               | database, this is licensed at $17,500/core. On x86, there
               | is a 2-for-1 core discount.
               | 
               | If you download Enterprise Edition and use it to perform
               | an upgrade from your SE2 database, then you will then be
               | on the hook for the full $47,500/core.
               | 
               | There are two ways to undo this license change. a) Run
               | "catdwgrd.sql" to get back to the SE2 release, then
               | upgrade again with the correct license, or b) unload all
               | of the data in the database (via exp/imp or data pump),
               | then load it into a new database that is created with the
               | correct license.
               | 
               | Staying on an EE database will certainly place you on the
               | new pricing tier.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | "A broken clock is right twice a day," something like that.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Oracle does care about open source, to the extent that they
         | have been the top Linux kernel contributor several times.
         | 
         | https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/post/oracle-is-the-1-contribu...
         | 
         | Oracle actually does not undercut the least expensive Red Hat
         | support offerings. Oracle Linux support is $499/year for basic,
         | and $1,399/year for premier. Both tiers allow 24x7 access to
         | file service requests (SRs).
         | 
         | https://www.oracle.com/linux/support/
         | 
         | Red Hat has a more complicated support structure, starting with
         | workstation-self support: $179, workstation-8x5 support: $299,
         | server-self support: $349, server-8x5 support: $799,
         | server-24x7 support: $1,299.
         | 
         | https://www.redhat.com/en/store/linux-platforms
         | 
         | It would be interesting if IBM did exactly what this Oracle
         | blog suggests:
         | 
         | "Finally, to IBM, here's a big idea for you. You say that you
         | don't want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here's how you can
         | save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream distributor
         | of Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the burden."
        
           | throwaway_62022 wrote:
           | > Oracle does care about open source, to the extent that they
           | have been the top Linux kernel contributor several times.
           | 
           | Linux kernel _is_ not entirety of Linux. Given that there is
           | Oracle cloud and various hardware Oracle has to support, it
           | will be almost unthinkable if Oracle did not contribute to
           | Linux kernel.
           | 
           | But - I will be interested in Oracle's support for broader
           | Linux ecosystem. How about contributions to GCC, Gnome (or
           | any other DE as a matter of fact), Wayland/xorg etc? Oracle
           | strictly contributes to projects from which it can benefit
           | immediately.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > Linux kernel is not entirety of Linux.
             | 
             | Technically, yes, it is. "Linux" refers to the kernel, not
             | to all of the other stuff you need on top of the kernel for
             | a fully-formed OS. Although "Linux" is not used in that
             | sense in the world at large anymore.
             | 
             | But this distinction is why you see some people mentioning
             | that you should say "Gnu/Linux" and the like when referring
             | to the OS as whole.
        
           | evan1107 wrote:
           | Based on your provided links the apples to apples comparison
           | for RHEL Server Standard Support ($799) would be the Oracle
           | Basic Support ($499)
           | 
           | Also, considering that OEL is downstream from RHEL how
           | sustainable do we really think it would be for RHEL to
           | downstream from OEL? How long would OEL invest and maintain
           | in OS components that don't directly benefit their specific
           | offerings? Is there evidence to suggest there is any truth
           | behind that offer? In my years of following the Linux
           | ecosystem Oracle's niche seems to have largely evolved around
           | performance optimizations that solve specific problems they
           | experience with other products or feature enhancements to
           | facilitate new developments within their product ecosystem
           | (which is still great for the community!) but what I have not
           | seen is general purpose stewardship of the ecosystem of
           | packages outside the kernel. I have no doubts they have made
           | contributions of that nature but that has certainly not been
           | a constant in what I have personally observed thus far.
           | Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places but I genuinely don't
           | believe Oracle would truly take on that responsibility nor do
           | I believe that they would be anywhere near as effective as
           | Red Hat at executing it
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Oracle does maintain Solaris, which would seem to me to
             | entail a much larger support burden than Red Hat's
             | stewardship of their enterprise Linux distribution.
             | 
             | Oracle also ships a few Linux userspace utilities outside
             | of the main yum repos; the btrfs utilities come to mind.
             | There really isn't any obvious btrfs performance need
             | within Oracle or its products, which runs contrary to the
             | spirit of your observations; in fact the Oracle database is
             | explicitly not supported on btrfs.
             | 
             | Note 2290489.1: "Oracle DB has specifically said that they
             | do not support using BTRFS filesystems... BTRFS is
             | optimized for _non-database_ workloads. "
             | 
             | I will also somewhat agree with you in circumspection on
             | the quality of Oracle's 24x7 support. I have endured
             | frustrating delays on SRs for various reasons, and have
             | been forced to escalate in the past. I don't know if IBM's
             | $1,299 24x7 support is good, but I can say that Oracle's
             | has been astonishingly bad - be prepared to escalate, which
             | usually moves things along.
             | 
             | I think that, if IBM decided to let go of all of their RHEL
             | developers, Oracle is certainly capable of assuming this
             | burden.
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | > Oracle does maintain Solaris, which would seem to me to
               | entail a much larger support burden than Red Hat's
               | stewardship of their enterprise Linux distribution.
               | 
               | This seems like a non-sequitur in a conversation about
               | open-source OSes.
        
               | chasil wrote:
               | I do not understand how, as Solaris was open previous to
               | Oracle's acquisition.
               | 
               | Red Hat does not maintain all of the code in RHEL - they
               | repackage and patch everything taken from other
               | developers. Very few packages are authored solely by
               | them.
               | 
               | I don't know what relationship Oracle has with the
               | current owner of the UNIX System V source (appears to be
               | The Open Group), but Oracle is responsible for vastly
               | more of the kernel and userspace in Solaris than RHEL.
        
               | throwaway_62022 wrote:
               | > Red Hat does not maintain all of the code in RHEL -
               | they repackage and patch everything taken from other
               | developers.
               | 
               | This is false. Red Hat does maintain code that is shipped
               | by default with RHEL. It should be noted though, the
               | number of packages that are part of default RHEL
               | installation is small. Also upstream first policy
               | basically means, any proposed patch must first be merged
               | in upstream before being backported to rhel. If that does
               | not make them maintainers, I don't know what will. Being
               | sole author and maintainer are not the same thing.
        
           | mighmi wrote:
           | It takes people a long time to readjust preconceptions.
           | Microsoft was the big bad for most of my life, but it took ~8
           | years after Ballmers retirement for people to start noticing
           | Microsofts prestigious opensourcing, interesting cloud
           | offerings etc. where its now a commonplace that they've
           | improved. Fascinating really.
           | 
           | Oracles got quite the history, but they have been supporting
           | Linux and Java well and killing Solaris was a segue into
           | Linux too, ergo more open.
        
             | delfinom wrote:
             | Oracle has got the history and continues the same history,
             | including the lawyers. You know why? The entire business is
             | a cult structured around their majority owner, Larry who
             | has never stepped away from the business.
        
             | n6h6 wrote:
             | What's up with the way you write the letter s? Is it a
             | catch-all for apostrophes? I haven't seen anyone do that
             | before, just curious.
        
               | mighmi wrote:
               | Long story short: I decided to start using a separate
               | laptop for work/tech stuff. Setting it up has been a bit
               | of a pain: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/14
               | vzvex/on_hp_la...
               | 
               | To answer your question specifically, I'm used to
               | "English (intl, with AltGr dead keys)" but in Linux Mint
               | there are like 20 options. I was trying "US, intl, AltGr
               | Unicode combining" or perhaps "US, intl, with dead keys"
               | or such. (I've tried about a dozen in the last 2 days.)
               | Instead of an apostrophe, they were generating what could
               | become an accent mark, a stress mark or diacritic
               | depending on the next letter. On "with AltGr dead keys"
               | you must use right alt+apostrophe for that effect. (The
               | quotation marks would do the same thing.)
               | 
               | Anyway, the keyboard lets me type things like
               | thdssaoessdfheu'6'^"1/423$?` with 2 buttons like shift to
               | make a capital! This is good for German, Spanish and
               | French, but Hungarian and Romanian require 3 buttons,
               | then a 4th which is more tedious. left alt shift 5 = s t
               | romanian left alt shift 3 = a lines for latin left alt
               | shift 2 = u o - hungarian long umlaut
               | 
               | If you really want to learn about ways to enter writing
               | systems, this is a wild ride: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
               | ki/Chinese_input_methods_for_comp...
        
               | Rechtsstaat wrote:
               | On some keyboard layouts, pressing the quote mark starts
               | a modifyer and then depending on the layout the following
               | character is combined with the quote mark. Most English
               | layouts don't include s in this, but some Eastern
               | European (?) languages use that character more often and
               | so include them in this modifyer shortcut.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | I honestly didn't expect the explanation of that to be as
               | interesting as it is! I had no idea...
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | Microsoft is still a big bad. As is Oracle.
             | 
             | That they do some things you and I may agree with doesn't
             | erase the terrible things that these companies do. Not just
             | historically, but to this day.
        
           | Hamcha wrote:
           | They care so much for open source that they instantly killed
           | OpenSolaris even if that led to much of the team quitting.
           | 
           | They also very much care to create an open and competitive
           | environment, that's why their reps repeatedly refused to sell
           | us licenses to have Solaris run under VMWare ESXi, demanding
           | we replace our ESXi deployments with... VirtualBox (no,
           | really).
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | > we certify Oracle software products on RHEL even though they
       | are built and tested on Oracle Linux only, never on RHEL
       | 
       | Okay, that's honestly really interesting, and that is quite a
       | statement on their compatibility. I guess it saves them money on
       | licensing and also sends a message.
        
       | redroyal wrote:
       | Ok maybe Oracle has a point here looking past their reputation.
       | 
       | Did you know Sun had a Mac mini like product back in the day
       | based on dual UltraSPARC T2+ Coolthreads SoCs? I almost bought it
       | off eBay
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/R_I_C_M/status/1646236005471485968
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/alanc/status/1585752213565018114
       | 
       | Wouldn't it be nice if Oracle brought that back and made the
       | ultimate open source dev box? Their latest SPARC processors are
       | wild
        
         | gunapologist99 wrote:
         | They also had the very cool Cobalt RAQ's.
         | 
         | Nowadays, such a dev-focused box (instead of a mini do-it-all
         | server) might be structured like the Mac Mini.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > Wouldn't it be nice if Oracle brought that back and made the
         | ultimate open source dev box?
         | 
         | That would be irrelevant to me. If Oracle is involved, I don't
         | want to touch it with a 10-foot pole.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | I'd really like to know the ratio of systems that are running
       | RHEL vs the clones. 10:1? 100:1? 1000:1?
       | 
       | The fear would be that stomping out 90 or 99 (or 99.9%) of your
       | actual user base (even if they are non-paying) would you over.
        
       | constantcrying wrote:
       | Their motives are very clear. RHEL did a lot of work for them and
       | maintaining compatability will be a lot harder without source
       | code.
       | 
       | I guess the promise to keep their distro open is something...
        
       | weare138 wrote:
       | You know you screwed up when Oracle has the moral high ground.
        
       | everybodyknows wrote:
       | > Oracle has always made Oracle Linux binaries and source freely
       | available to all.
       | 
       | Hmmm, well yes, there's https://yum.oracle.com/oracle-linux-
       | isos.html
       | 
       | But no one here on HN in my memory has mentioned trying to run it
       | on, say, a personal desktop. What's the reality of this?
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | > _We chose to be RHEL compatible because we did not want to
       | fragment the Linux community._
       | 
       | ROFL, oh is that why?? :-D
        
       | jtraub91 wrote:
       | HAHA. Oracle clapping back at IBM.
        
       | theandrewbailey wrote:
       | This is one of those uncomfortable situations where you find
       | yourself on the same side as the devil.
        
         | bas wrote:
         | I felt dirty reading the blog post as a longtime ZFS (FreeBSD)
         | user.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | Free software works in part because it forces us, consumers,
         | developers, businesses, into a better optimum than an a
         | proprietary ecosystem. And that makes it work because it aligns
         | incentives of self interested companies with keeping it open as
         | we're seeing here.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Exactly, lol.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Worse, I find myself applauding the devil _for their
         | championing Open Source_! This is _Oracle_! The lawnmower[0]!
         | The company that killed OpenSolaris! What mad world is this!?
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=33m
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | TBF Linux put OpenSolaris on life support, with RedHat's
           | help.
           | 
           | Oracle just pulled the plug.
        
             | gunapologist99 wrote:
             | That's exactly right; I was surprised way back when that
             | Linux wasn't cutting into the Windows marketshare very much
             | at all, despite all the noise and fury coming from Redmond,
             | but it was absolutely decimating big iron UNIX.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | Windows was already on low-margin consumer x86 boxes so
               | there wasn't the same opportunity.
               | 
               | Linux enabled commodity hardware to eat Big Iron's lunch
               | using that same x86. Dell and IBM certainly made a good
               | business filling datacenter racks with their x86
               | offerings for quite some time.
        
           | Aloha wrote:
           | I think like, a big part of this was Solaris has near zero
           | chance of gaining headshare among people who need Unix.
           | Solaris has value for customers with vendor lock in, and its
           | a declining revenue source which can be ridden out for a
           | decade or two, and then discontinued.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | I don't think that awaits Solaris.
             | 
             | The Rdb database for OpenVMS is still getting updates, and
             | a new port to the VMS-x86 release that has recently
             | emerged.
             | 
             | https://www.oracle.com/database/technologies/related/rdb.ht
             | m...
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Yeah, probably the consistent way to explain it is that
             | Oracle thought they could get away with it for Solaris but
             | the market of Linux distros is quite healthy and they don't
             | have the power to pull the same thing so they push the
             | other angle instead.
        
               | Aloha wrote:
               | As the poster I replied to pointed out, the lawnmower
               | only cares about making money.
        
           | solarkraft wrote:
           | What I love most about the lawn mower analogy (which I apply
           | to any company) is that sometimes it can also be useful.
        
           | geodel wrote:
           | Well world is about same as before. But it does remain tricky
           | for people who think there is only one possible behavior for
           | an entity all the time.
        
         | robert_foss wrote:
         | I was about to say. Never before have I agreeed with Oracle.
        
           | electric_mayhem wrote:
           | Big tech companies have a history of supporting the community
           | where doing so attacks their competitors' cash cows.
           | 
           | There's also that Oracle linux was formed from RHEL.
           | 
           | Maybe let's not confuse Oracle undermining their competitor's
           | moat with their genuinely being on the side of the community.
           | 
           | It's been a while, but the necessity of MariaDB and Percona
           | also seem to show that Oracle's been very much on the other
           | side of this kind of move in the past.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | > Finally, to IBM, here's a big idea for you. You say that
             | you don't want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here's how
             | you can save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream
             | distributor of Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the
             | burden.
             | 
             | I'd love for Red Hat to call Oracle's bluff, but it would
             | never happen.
             | 
             | Oracle's definitely been on the wrong side of these
             | arguments for long enough that I wouldn't give the benefit
             | of the doubt.
        
             | josephcsible wrote:
             | > Maybe let's not confuse Oracle undermining their
             | competitor's moat with their genuinely being on the side of
             | the community.
             | 
             | Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons (Oracle) is
             | better than doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons
             | (IBM).
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | True, but doing the right thing for the wrong reasons
               | doesn't mean that the company should be praised for it.
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | This. It's more like a happy accident. If Oracle had a
               | stated principle which was virtuous, and did something to
               | specifically to uphold that principle when anyone else
               | might have done something else, that would be something
               | you thank them for. And this is not that.
               | 
               | However there is also another idea that I think is valid,
               | which is "reward the behavior you want to see". Whyever
               | they did it, if it's good, you let them know that you
               | want that and you don't burn them the one time they do
               | something you always say you want.
               | 
               | I still don't thank them though. There is no reasonable
               | hope of ever influencing Oracle to become something 100%
               | the opposite of what they are at their very core. So F
               | them. I see no point in worrying about failing to reward
               | the behavior you want to see in this case. You will never
               | get the behavior you really want out of Oracle, and so
               | all you would be doing is letting them influence you, not
               | you influencing them.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > However there is also another idea that I think is
               | valid, which is "reward the behavior you want to see"
               | 
               | Yes, I agree with this as well. It's all complicated.
               | 
               | Oracle only cares about one thing: profits. So any
               | meaningful way of rewarding their behavior would have to
               | come in the form of giving them more money. Every dollar
               | you spend is, after all, a vote telling the entity you
               | gave the dollar to to keep on doing whatever it is
               | they're doing.
               | 
               | This one fairly self-serving press release isn't enough
               | for me to give Oracle any money, though. I don't think
               | they'd take the right lesson from it. Especially because
               | I'm not the sort of big spender that Oracle really cares
               | about.
        
       | zaphar wrote:
       | This could be totally well intentioned and completely honest but
       | no one would believe it anyway. Oracle has burnt so many bridges
       | I'm not sure it could ever recover reputationally from it. It's
       | always about more than just the technology. Reputation will play
       | a large part in anyone's decision making.
        
       | gaze wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | josephcsible wrote:
       | Yes, Oracle is evil overall, but even a stopped clock is right
       | twice a day. I'm totally on their side on this issue, just like
       | even though Amazon is evil overall, I'm totally on their side
       | with OpenSearch.
        
       | zeroxfe wrote:
       | The timing of this is hilarious:
       | https://twitter.com/chatsidhartha/status/1649484240952721408
       | 
       | Oracle just sent a legal threat to "Rust for Javascript" to
       | remove "Javascript" from their name. (Oracle owns the
       | "Javascript" trademark.)
        
         | aewens wrote:
         | To play the devil's advocate:
         | 
         | IANAL, but if I recall correctly part of having a trademark is
         | having a legal obligation to enforce it, and if I'm reading the
         | tweet correctly this is a name of a company and typically one
         | cannot use a trademark in their company name.
        
           | slimsag wrote:
           | (I am not a lawyer, I am speculating)
           | 
           | Oracle can grant others the use of their trademark legally,
           | right? There's no reason Oracle couldn't say this?
           | 
           | > JavaScript is our trademark, you must either stop using it
           | immediately OR <sign this online form here> to enter into an
           | agreement with us that grants you the ability to use it, for
           | as long as you please, no strings attached, no payment
           | required.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > Oracle can grant others the use of their trademark
             | legally, right? There's no reason Oracle couldn't say this?
             | 
             | Correct, with certain limitation[1]. This fact is why
             | saying "but we _have_ to do this or lose our trademark " is
             | a bit disingenuous. You do have to actively defend your
             | trademark or lose it (because a trademark is not intended
             | to benefit the company holding it, it's intended as a
             | consumer protection measure). But "defending your
             | trademark" doesn't mean you have to engage in a lawsuit.
             | 
             | [1] The limitations are around the purpose of trademark as
             | consumer protection measure. The idea is that consumers can
             | rely on the trademark as a guarantee that a product or
             | service is coming from who they think it's coming from.
             | It's possible to be so liberal in licensing the use of your
             | trademark out that it gets diluted enough to risk losing
             | the registration.
        
       | pmontra wrote:
       | > Finally, to IBM, here's a big idea for you. You say that you
       | don't want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here's how you can
       | save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream distributor of
       | Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the burden.
       | 
       | It's nice to see big companies trolling each other.
        
       | IceWreck wrote:
       | > Finally, to IBM, here's a big idea for you. You say that you
       | don't want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here's how you can
       | save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream distributor of
       | Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the burden.
       | 
       | 100% PR. They know Red Hat will not actually do it so why not
       | offer for PR points.
        
       | ldehaan wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | torstenvl wrote:
       | Red Hat 5.0 (Hurricane) was my first-ever open source operating
       | system. If you'd told me, 25 years ago, that one day Red Hat
       | would withhold source from the Linux community, and that Oracle
       | would be the champion of contributing back, I never would have
       | believed you.
       | 
       | This feels a little bit like when Ahmadinejad called out Putin
       | for being a tyrannical narcissist.
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | I would have believed it. Red Hat always felt like a faceless
         | corporation. And Oracle is just the successor to Sun
         | Microsystems.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | > And Oracle is just the successor to Sun Microsystems.
           | 
           | Oracle closed the formerly Open Source OpenSolaris, so no, I
           | would not give them that credit.
        
           | adql wrote:
           | Sun was FAR better than Oracle
        
       | helsinkiandrew wrote:
       | Hopefully this is a wake up call for IBM - Oracle is shaming you
       | for not acting in the public good.
       | 
       | Oracle!
        
       | 28304283409234 wrote:
       | It's GNU/Linux, Oracle. You can't even get _that_ right. ;-)
        
         | fariszr wrote:
         | Even red hat doesn't call it Gnu/Linux.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | What do you mean _even_ Red Hat? Why would they be more
           | likely to worry about this terminology?
        
         | bigbillheck wrote:
         | It's not the GNU part that's the issue here.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | I mean, it's the GNU General Public License that is largely
           | at play here. That's not the GNU part that most people refer
           | to, but neither is it really the "Linux" kernel part that's
           | central to the argument either.
        
         | PlutoIsAPlanet wrote:
         | You mean (in order of "startup" and importance)
         | GNU/systemd/Linux?
        
       | Brian_K_White wrote:
       | Do they seriously not hear themselves? Oracle, free software
       | champions of the world. It is clearly the End Times.
        
       | koollman wrote:
       | Yeah, right, I agree with ... err... Oracle. No, wait,
       | something's wrong...
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | The problem is they are both wrong. There are more than two
         | options.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | StopHammoTime wrote:
       | Sometimes I have trouble explaining irony.
       | 
       | Now I can just send this article to people lmao.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | Commoditize your... what was it?
       | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/06/12/strategy-letter-v/
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | Wow, to continue calling Red Hat IBM is a very passive aggressive
       | move that I expect on message boards, not from corporate blogs.
       | Interesting. ;D
        
         | simiones wrote:
         | Aren't they just a division inside IBM now?
        
         | phone8675309 wrote:
         | The leadership of Red Hat could have avoided this issue by not
         | selling to IBM. Oh well. Seems like a silly thing to stan for
         | Red Hat over.
        
         | adql wrote:
         | Their recent actions definitely feel more like IBM than Red Hat
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | The moment IBM acquired Red^WBlueHat this was all inevitable,
           | the only question was when.
        
       | fariszr wrote:
       | > From a practical standpoint, we believe Oracle Linux will
       | remain as compatible as it has always been through release 9.2,
       | but after that, there may be a greater chance for a compatibility
       | issue to arise. If an incompatibility does affect a customer or
       | ISV, Oracle will work to remediate the problem.
       | 
       | > By the way, if you are a Linux developer who disagrees with
       | IBM's actions and you believe in Linux freedom the way we do, we
       | are hiring.
       | 
       | Well to some extent, Redhat got what it wanted, clones are
       | starting to contribute rather than just cloning, with stream
       | becoming the center of it all.
       | 
       | Cloudlinux did the same thing, they are hiring and starting to
       | diverge from just being a RHEL clone.
        
       | sokoloff wrote:
       | Oracle: Keep Linux open and free; we couldn't figure out any way
       | not to...
        
       | nawfalak wrote:
       | This does not read like a corporate blog lol. It's so passive
       | aggressive and has minor insults all over the place.
        
         | Timber-6539 wrote:
         | To be fair, so was Red Hat's statement which started all this.
        
         | gunapologist99 wrote:
         | That's what I like about it. It sounds like a startup calling
         | out a bigger competitor for anti-competitive behavior. (Ironic
         | that it's coming from Oracle, but that's also what gives it
         | some teeth!)
        
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