[HN Gopher] A mathematically correct way to tie your shoes
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A mathematically correct way to tie your shoes
Author : redbell
Score : 70 points
Date : 2023-07-09 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bigthink.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bigthink.com)
| endgame wrote:
| Very pleased to see plenty of links to
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ in the replies, and very
| disappointed to see it completely absent from the main article.
| Ian's Shoelace Site is a great reminder of what the internet used
| to be.
| Arch-TK wrote:
| This is horrific.
|
| The easiest way to fix this for me is to swap the first step, the
| second and third steps are so deeply ingrained that I don't think
| I could ever re-learn them.
|
| This has now completely ruined how I tie shoelaces. Thanks
| asshole! I hope you're happy that now my shoes don't untie
| themselves 10 times a day.
|
| Edit: For reference I have always tied "Cross left over right and
| tuck, loop with the right lace, wrap [left] lace over the loop
| and pull: granny knot.". Somehow this suggests I am left handed
| (I am right handed).
|
| The article contains some mistakes in its list of options, you
| can't loop and wrap the same lace. 4 items in the list make this
| error.
| gpvos wrote:
| I tied them exactly the same way until just now, and am also
| right-handed. The author's statistics may be incorrect. Also,
| this is going to take some time to adjust.
| 8s2ngy wrote:
| This reminded me of a short TED talk, I watched many years ago,
| where a guy showed how to tie your shoes. Here it is:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zAFcV7zuUDA&pp=ygUUdGVkIGVkIHR...
| stkdump wrote:
| I thought it is the explanation of how to tie shoes without
| wasting time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPIgR89jv3Q
| xbar wrote:
| Cheap knockoff of the TED talk.
| kaetemi wrote:
| I still cannot understand the way people explain tying shoes.
| What's with the "wrapping the unlooped lace around the looped
| lace"? I'm trying to visualize that. Makes absolutely no sense to
| me.
|
| It's just an ordinary "square" knot with the laces both folded in
| half in the last part of making the knot.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Yes, and you can make it by making two bights (folds in the
| string, aka "bunny ears") or just by making the folds as you
| push the string through the aperture formed by crossing the
| strings.
|
| I don't really understand why people like the misnaming of the
| square knot/reef knot as the "Ian knot" either. To me that
| confuses things, as if it's not just a technique.
| dkbrk wrote:
| It's also worth mentioning the Ian knot [0]. It's just a way of
| tying the standard square knot, however in the convention
| established by Clifford Ashley [1] a knot consists not only of
| the topological configuration, but also the method of tying.
|
| In fact, tying a knot correctly demands not only creating the
| topologically correct configuration, but that it is correctly
| "worked" into the correct snugged up form. Many knots have
| different "capsized" variants that are completely different in
| function. Ashley says "This is a matter of no less importance
| than correct tying and often presents a more difficult problem,
| requiring both patience and practice".
|
| The point is: a "mathematical knot" has almost nothing to do with
| a knot in the real world. It is exactly the information the
| mathematical model discards -- the actual configuration of the
| knot in 3D space, where the friction (the "nip") is, etc. -- that
| is most important in a knot. And no, knot theory isn't needed to
| identify the problem of mistying a reef knot as a granny knot.
| That's the #1 rookie mistake, closely followed by using a reef
| knot as a bend.
|
| [0]: https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashley_Book_of_Knots
| basicoperation wrote:
| This is my favourite page on this subject:
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm
|
| Well actually, it's the linked celeb page:
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknottingcelebs.htm
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| After tying my shoes with a granny knot for 30+ years, I
| switched to the 'Ian Knot' after seeing this posted a couple
| years ago[1]. It took me a couple weeks to get really
| comfortable with the new knot, but I can't imagine ever going
| back.
|
| [1] It comes up pretty regularly:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
| lukevp wrote:
| This is also what I use, and I've taught several others how
| to do it as well!
| cbsks wrote:
| That's the technique I use to tie shoelaces, but
| unfortunately, it was too difficult to teach to my 5 year old
| so she's stuck with the bunny-ears method. I'm open to
| suggestions if anyone has any!
| projektfu wrote:
| Just add another loop and you have the better bow.
|
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/betterbowknot.htm
| radicalbyte wrote:
| Velcro is the correct answer.
|
| After having to remove the stuff from my daughter's hair this
| weekend I'm now certain that it is stronger than any knot you
| would tie for their use case.
| wffurr wrote:
| Velcro does wear out. The loops wear down and the hooks will
| get packed with whatever crud they pick up: grass, hair, fuzz,
| etc. You can't do much about worn out loops, but you can
| painstakingly clear the hooks with a sewing needle.
|
| Contrast to replacing a pair of shoelaces, which is simply a
| matter of relacing the shoes.
| ustamills wrote:
| It also matters what kind of shoelace you're using. With a boot
| lace a reef knot will struggle to stay tied simply because the
| lace can slip through the knot. And easy fix for this is to tie
| what I've heard called a superknot. The way that works is when
| you wrap the loose end around the loop wrap it twice around the
| loop before you pass it through and pull tight. This extra
| wrapping provides a grip that is better than a single wrap.
|
| In my experience the typical flat cotton sneaker laces work fine
| with a regular reef knot. I also tie my shoes using the Ian way
| of creating the knot, if I'm wearing standard sneaker laces. It
| is much faster.
| psychphysic wrote:
| Good lord what a load of waffle.
|
| This is one area that LLMs really excel.
|
| Summarise this, and follow up how to tie the knot correctly.
|
| We need to stop paying writers by word count.
| impissedoff1 wrote:
| Who ties their shoes, you tie it once, strong, and just slip them
| on until they fall apart
| fisian wrote:
| Apparently, I just did it the "correct" way, without even knowing
| my whole life.
|
| A problem that I have more often is that I cannot untie my shoes
| anymore. What happens is that during the day the loose end slips
| through the loop. So when I try to pull on the opposite loose end
| to open the tie it gets stuck and can be very hard to open.
| Readerium wrote:
| This video by Professor Shoelaces whose articles are most cited
| in the comments explains is very well for the more untrained
| audience.
|
| https://youtu.be/gVaS6TwzLc8
| hereforcomments wrote:
| I love it! In 2011 I got fed up as I had to tie my shoes multiple
| times a day. So I did an onlie research and learnt that
| practically for twenty-x years I used to knot the granny knot. I
| also learnt to tie my shoe like this https://youtu.be/wMuNjnNyaiA
| Tade0 wrote:
| Reading the comments it appears that my dad always did the Ian
| Knot, tried to teach me, but I misunderstood and all this time
| was just crisscrossing the two loops instead.
| commandersaki wrote:
| Stuff that! I have crocs, they're sturdy, reliable, and easy to
| slip on and off. Can even get designs that are more suited for
| "business" attire.
| andrew_gs wrote:
| At some point I keep meaning to learn Ian's secure knot:
|
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
|
| But I can never quite get round to doing it. I just double knot
| my shoes and that seems to be sufficient.
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| Years ago I was walking through downtown when my old shoes
| collapsed on me. I walked into the first shoe store I saw (Ecco,
| good brand luckily). While trying on shoes, the clerk had the
| gall to ask me if I knew how to tie my shoes and then proceeded
| to actually explain step by step, how to tie a pair of shoes.
| Well, joke's on me, his way is better, and now it's the only
| method I use. On exiting nice dinner parties I have to stop
| myself mansplaining to my friends about proper technique. How one
| shoe salesman changed my life.
| doubled112 wrote:
| This is funny. One of those things that are so basic you're
| sure you should be offended, but then lifechanging.
|
| I'd have been caught off guard with the phrasing too, but at
| least he meant "the best way" or "the way he prefers" vs just
| straight up "do you know how?"
| itronitron wrote:
| Mansplaining how to tie one's shoelaces sounds like the perfect
| way to leave a nice dinner party.
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| I love how the comments have coalesced to discussing the fieggen
| website, ignoring bigthink.
| monkmartinez wrote:
| Tie a surgeon's shoelace knot [1] if you are a runner or when you
| tie your kids soccer cleats/boots. You'll thank me later.
|
| [1]https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/surgeonknot.htm
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| Oh nice. The equivalent outcome tied in a different way, my
| preferred way:
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/turquoiseturtleknot.htm . It
| hasn't failed me yet, easy to tie and untie!
| itronitron wrote:
| This is interesting, because my whole life I have been told by
| people (my mom, classmates, etc.) that I tie my shoelaces in an
| unconventional way. Basically I have always used the Surgeon's
| Shoelace Knot but without steps 7 and 8 which, to my surprise,
| makes it the Standard Shoelace Knot.
| idbehold wrote:
| Up until step 7 and 8 it _is_ the standard shoelace knot. The
| end of step 6:
|
| > Unlike the "Standard Shoelace Knot", don't pull it tight
| just yet!
| projektfu wrote:
| I like the better bow knot because it's a simple variation of
| the bunny knot I learned in school, and I like the look of it.
|
| https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/betterbowknot.htm
| bloomingeek wrote:
| Dammit, I just looked at most of my shoes and they have Velcro!
| smitty1e wrote:
| The photo in The Famous Article clearly shows non-use of the
| heel-lock[0].
|
| After 50+ years, I have finally figured out heel-lock usage, and
| formally promoted myself to Heel Lock Snob, and therefore must
| issue a stern: "Tut, tut" to lesser mortals.
|
| [0] https://www.roadrunnersports.com/blog/heel-lock-lacing
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(page generated 2023-07-09 23:02 UTC)