[HN Gopher] The underground economy of Glassdoor reviews
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The underground economy of Glassdoor reviews
        
       Author : shsachdev
       Score  : 165 points
       Date   : 2023-07-07 16:48 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.careerfair.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.careerfair.io)
        
       | collaborative wrote:
       | I have operated a organigram app for the past 5 years. One of the
       | bigger user segments is these so called ORM agencies. They use
       | the app to keep track of their large "teams", assign tasks, etc.
       | A team can be as large as 12,000 members
       | 
       | At first I didn't know what to think. Then I learned that their
       | teams are mostly made up of illiterate people who need a few
       | bucks to survive. I don't blame them. Online reviews are useless,
       | if you need to know something ask someone you know, don't just
       | take the opinion of someone on the griftnet
        
       | jdwithit wrote:
       | He mentions ChatGPT in passing but you could write a whole
       | separate article about that. These bogus review companies are
       | going to be able to pump out so many more reviews, of higher
       | quality, with access to LLM-generated content. This problem is
       | only going to get even worse.
        
         | avereveard wrote:
         | They could already do that with pockets deep enough, what
         | openai allows is for the common people to fight back
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > what openai allows is for the common people to fight back
           | 
           | How so?
        
       | mhzsh wrote:
       | And then there are the fake reviews left by shady reputation
       | management services. $previous_company (which was very small) had
       | many negative reviews pop up in a short time frame, which at
       | first was thought to be a disgruntled employee making multiple
       | accounts, but then a reputation management service "came to the
       | rescue" just at the right time and offered to get them removed.
       | IIRC, Glassdoor did actually remove these eventually after being
       | contacted, but whoever offered to get them removed was told to
       | fuck off.
        
       | paddw wrote:
       | Glassdoor's model suffers from intrinsic problems such that...
       | it's hard to imagine a site as it could ever work well for a
       | sustained period of time before becoming a target for abuse.
       | 
       | It also seems inevitable that such sites, will exist. Can you
       | really blame Glassdoor here? Are they supposed to do a thorough
       | investigation for every review? At least it gives some sort of
       | weak signal about the place.
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | To me the entire idea of Glassdoor is fundamentally flawed so
       | there is a part of me that can't exactly blame for things like
       | this going on.
       | 
       | It has been shown time and time again that most people won't go
       | out of their way to leave a positive review for something and
       | will only make the effort when they want to complain.
       | 
       | Mix this with something like a job where generally the only
       | reason people will leave is likely due to something negative
       | going on (while I don't have numbers to back this up, I would not
       | think that most are leaving because they are simply not learning
       | anything new and feel like they are done where they currently
       | are. But maybe I am wrong about this assumption?).
       | 
       | So the people leaving would only have negative views that
       | strongly skew the actual appearance of how a job may be.
       | 
       | I have left 3 Glassdoor reviews (once for an interview that was
       | so bad I walked out) and all of them negative. But for 2 of them
       | if I look back honestly I realize that much of what I was leaving
       | for was not an issue for the entire company and was more specific
       | to my team.
       | 
       | That doesn't mean that those negative reviews are not valuable,
       | they are. But I don't think they really paint a good picture, I
       | know I don't trust it if I am looking at a company knowing both
       | what I mentioned and what is mentioned in this article.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > I would not think that most are leaving because they are
         | simply not learning anything new and feel like they are done
         | where they currently are.
         | 
         | This is why I've left 90% of the jobs I've left. In none of
         | those cases was my leaving a reflection of anything bad about
         | the company.
        
       | newah1 wrote:
       | Despite high turnover, and lots of complaints, my last company
       | had one of the highest Glassdoor ratings I'd ever seen> How?
       | Simple, they'd pay their employees to do so.
        
       | dmonitor wrote:
       | Article focuses on fake positive reviews, but I wouldn't be
       | surprised if leaving fake negative reviews on a competitor was
       | also a thing
        
         | UglyToad wrote:
         | The real 4D chess move is fake negative reviews of your own
         | company that are so unreasonable in content they cast doubt on
         | other negative reviews.
         | 
         | This seems like an unsolvable problem with online reviews in
         | general. However I generally find Google Maps reviews for
         | restaurants fairly reliable. You'd think with the amount of
         | data they slurp up they could cut out fake reviews based on
         | location data alone. Maybe it's just confirmation bias on my
         | end though.
        
           | jtriangle wrote:
           | Fairly solvable with an actual identity/employment
           | verification system, and that's not exactly an exotic idea.
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | For something like Glassdoor, the problem is you risk being
             | fired if you identify yourself and the info leaks or is
             | sold. Can you trust them not to sell it?
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | It would be great to be able to prove your employment
               | without identifying yourself. In a company with 1000+
               | employees it would work especially well.
               | 
               | Too bad the employer would be an adversary here.
        
               | everybodyknows wrote:
               | > info leaks
               | 
               | Exactly. Do you really want to trust your ability to keep
               | paying your bills to Glassdoor's infosec? In return for
               | nothing but the satisfaction of speaking your mind to an
               | audience of non-responsive strangers?
        
       | whatwhatnewacct wrote:
       | Glassdoor is a hellscape for employees and employers. Current and
       | former employees can write literally anything they want, true or
       | false, and it gets published. Employers have no cause for
       | recourse except apparently paying people to write fake reviews.
       | So a brand can be damaged by fake reviews or lies in reviews, and
       | have to go through backchannels to fix it. It's basically a place
       | for legal libel and puts everyone in a worse spot. I never trust
       | Glassdoor.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | This is surprisingly pro-corporate take. This same argument
         | could be made for literally anywhere that people provide
         | feedback on anything. In such cases I tend to favor the
         | interests of the least powerful rather than the interests of
         | the most powerful.
        
           | bruce511 wrote:
           | That certainly is one way to try and pick a side, but in
           | practice it's no better than flipping a coin.
           | 
           | Anytime you hear one side of the story, we'll you're hearing
           | one side of the story. Most situations are not black and
           | white, most have context and nuance.
           | 
           | I've seen employees leave because the company behaved badly.
           | I've seen employess leave when they behaved badly. I've seen
           | situations where both sides had legitimate complaints.
           | 
           | Obviously no person posts something like "they fired me cause
           | I'm a dick". But plenty of people do get fired for perfectly
           | valid reasons. Companies will very seldom talk about firings
           | publically, it's too dangerous to do so. So basically just be
           | aware that people who have been fired are, well, unreliable
           | witnesses to how that came about.
           | 
           | Of course there are plenty of bad companies. It eould be good
           | yo know who they are. Im not sure employee reviews from ex-
           | workers is meaningful. I -know- reviews from current
           | employees is not meaningful. Which makes the value of review
           | sites questionable.
        
       | guiriduro wrote:
       | Isn't it fairly widely known that the overall Glassdoor rating
       | isn't worth looking at, and that short and wildly positive (or
       | short and negative) individual reviews aren't useful either,
       | because of the widespread fake review problem. Usually the ones
       | clearly written by humans with real knowledge of the company are
       | a little longer and contain particular story snippet that will
       | add to the credibility. In my experience those skew toward the
       | negative however, as I would mentally discard short positive
       | reviews more frequently even if genuine, being so hard to
       | distinguish from paid or incentivised corporate hr-wash.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | > _And I'd say that the above answer [from chatgpt] was better
       | than 95% of the fake reviews I came across._
       | 
       | Perhaps this is because the easily identifiable fake reviews are
       | poorly written? The real question is how many fake reviews are
       | good enough to avoid detection?
        
       | shippintoboston wrote:
       | I used to work at Desktop Metal which was (at the time) a pretty
       | small startup here in Boston.
       | 
       | When I left, I wrote a pretty negative review on Glassdoor about
       | what I felt was a toxic work environment.
       | 
       | At the time I submitted my review, there were probably about 10
       | reviews for the company.
       | 
       | The very next day after my review was posted, about 7 positive
       | reviews popped up. Obviously pretty suspicious behavior, but when
       | I contacted Glassdoor they said there was no issue.
       | 
       | A week later my own review was removed for a generic content
       | policy violation.
       | 
       | Goes without saying I don't trust Glassdoor for much.
        
         | pubutil wrote:
         | I definitely believe that. Years ago, I had an interview
         | scheduled with a bank's IT department. Checked their Glassdoor
         | page and it was littered with negative reviews, with obviously
         | fake positive reviews peppered in.
         | 
         | I took the interview anyway because I really needed work at the
         | time. Got some 1-on-1 time with the IT guys and the first thing
         | they said was,
         | 
         | "You read the reviews on Glassdoor, didn't you?" "Yes.." "Well,
         | don't worry, IT is pretty isolated from all that"
         | 
         | Cool, I guess?
         | 
         | Next, I got some time with a VP. He saw on my resume that I'd
         | done some work for a Christian church. He said,
         | 
         | "Yeah, I love to debate religion at the water cooler!"
         | 
         | Had he taken some time to get to know me, he'd know I'm not
         | religious and probably would have held his tongue.
         | 
         | I got offered the job. Naturally, I didn't take it.
         | 
         | Like others have said, Glassdoor is good to see problem spots
         | in negative reviews. Positive reviews are meaningless in my
         | eyes.
         | 
         | For reference, the bank was called Bank of Internet at the
         | time. They've since rebranded to Axos and I continue to
         | recommend against them. I know nothing about their financial
         | credibility, but I can't in good faith recommend anyone support
         | a company that allows people in positions of power to "debate
         | religion at the water cooler." That's a hostile work
         | environment.
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | > I can't in good faith recommend anyone support a company
           | that allows people in positions of power to "debate religion
           | at the water cooler." That's a hostile work environment.
           | 
           | This is likely some cultural issue (I'm not from the United
           | States), but I don't get what some person of power who loves
           | debating religion at the water cooler makes the company a
           | hostile work environment. Quite the opposite: in my gut
           | feeling the fact that religion (a topic that has a tendency
           | to cause heated discussions) can be discussed at the water
           | cooler is rather a point of evidence that the work
           | environment is _really_ healthy.
        
         | Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
         | I've experienced this almost verbatim - put up a factual (at
         | least from my view) account of working with a previous
         | employer, a "warts and all" review. Next week I see about ten
         | 5-star reviews each with a single sentence something like "This
         | is a great place to work!".
         | 
         | However, when searching out the low-down on a potential new
         | employer, I only read the one and two star reviews - if they're
         | pretty spurious then I feel more comfortable taking a role
         | there. If however the poor reviews contain lots of pretty
         | specific complaints, I find them more believable that the
         | single sentence "everything is awesome here" style reviews.
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | I've considered making a browser extension where you can
           | click a review to ignore it and have the average ratings
           | recalculate automatically.
        
         | Solvency wrote:
         | I know a non-engineer who left DesktopMetal with a similar
         | sentiment.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Another case where web annotations would be useful.
         | 
         | Recently: iAnnotate - Whatever happened to the web as an
         | annotation system? (2013)
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36559758
        
         | druvisc wrote:
         | Same is happening to Google Maps.
         | 
         | I and other reviewers had left negative reviews for Cosuno
         | Ventures GmbH as it's an incredibly toxic and horrible place to
         | work in. I received a take-down notice from a German Google
         | Maps review employee saying that Cosuno is claiming it's a
         | false review and they don't know how who am I. Even though I
         | worked at the company for 4 months with the CTO and had
         | responded to the e-mail with documents signed by the CEO and
         | CTO.
         | 
         | They're rocking a 5 star review now. I didn't receive a
         | response from Google and my appeal has been ignored. I still
         | have the company's t-shirt in the countryside.
        
           | Kretinsky wrote:
           | I went to a pediatrician near where I lived. Long story
           | short, she was very toxic, making ultimatums and giving what
           | was revealed as dubious practice. I consulted other similar
           | pediatricians, who all gave me radically different answers
           | than hers.
           | 
           | As a result, I chose to write a detailed review explaining
           | why I thought she was unprofessional, citing examples. Of
           | course, my review got nuked.
           | 
           | Same happened with a photo shop that screw up a photo
           | development for some films. I left a factual review, with a
           | sample in pictures. I can see my review with my account, but
           | no one else can.
        
           | i_am_a_peasant wrote:
           | Heh, one of my friends wrote a negative review about his
           | landlord's Immobilien company. Got sued and had to pay him
           | the amount of his deposit.
           | 
           | I bet I'd be at risk of getting sued in Germany even if I
           | wrote a positive review about a company. The moment you post
           | an opinion online you are opening yourself as a target.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | Yep, I noticed the exact same thing. Glassdoor is a complete
         | scam, and it has been for as long as I've had a career. I do
         | not even check anymore.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Only way to get something useful is to read between the
           | lines. If there are full text reviews. But that takes time.
           | Glassdoor, tripadvisor, anything.
        
             | hnlmorg wrote:
             | It's only a matter of time before generative AI makes even
             | that type of analysis impossible
        
           | AlanSE wrote:
           | So is it basically true that there is no objective
           | information out there anymore, because anyone running a
           | successful site gets corrupted with money?
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | Blind seems somewhat OK?
        
             | iambateman wrote:
             | I'd say Consumer Reports and NYT wire cutter are pretty
             | objective...
             | 
             | Their bigger issue is that company quality doesn't change
             | much from year to year, so the pans that were good in 2019
             | are probably still good now, which is boring.
        
               | outworlder wrote:
               | Wirecutter is not objective.
               | 
               | https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-
               | pay-to...
        
               | loloquwowndueo wrote:
               | Wire cutter is hardly objective - check out their bike
               | lock reviews. Every single recommended product is from
               | Kryptonite.
        
               | im_down_w_otp wrote:
               | To be fair, most of the alternatives are garbage, but
               | also most of Kryptonite's own products are garbage. There
               | are ~3 worthwhile bike locks on the market. 2 of them are
               | made by Kryptonite. The rest provide the same value as
               | the TSA. Mostly theatrical.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | It depends on where they get their money, and how devoted
             | to being ethical the place is. Consumer Reports is a good
             | example of how to do this right.
             | 
             | I think it has to be a nonprofit or individual who isn't
             | doing it to make any money, though. If it's a money-maker,
             | you can't trust it.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | That's a big broad brush you just swiped with, but yeah, I
             | kind of agree with it.
        
         | smcleod wrote:
         | Yep. I've experience almost exactly the same in the past.
         | 
         | I've always just assumed glassdoor was a fake / scam site
         | since.
        
         | princevegeta89 wrote:
         | No one trusts these review companies actually. They simply
         | exist to extort entities that get reviewed either to remove
         | negative reviews or promote or even auto-post fake positive
         | reviews.
         | 
         | Yelp is a classic example that did this for years.
        
           | booleandilemma wrote:
           | Clearly the solution is a review company for review
           | companies.
        
             | wintogreen74 wrote:
             | Ah yes, the Coast Guard will police the police!
        
           | camhart wrote:
           | > No one trusts these review companies actually.
           | 
           | Most people do trust them, but shouldn't.
        
             | princevegeta89 wrote:
             | Actually you are right, sorry. I was exaggerating but it is
             | true that it is mostly the naive/average users of internet
             | that do place any significant credibility in online reviews
        
           | Mtinie wrote:
           | Can you foresee a scenario where a review site could
           | legitimately exist without turning to synthetic reviews, dark
           | UI patterns, or outright brand extortion?
        
             | princevegeta89 wrote:
             | Only if it was driven by a non-profit org I guess
        
               | Libcat99 wrote:
               | Perhaps a site that included both reviews of companies
               | and (paid) job postings from reviewed companies could
               | survive.
               | 
               | Of course misbehaving companies would probably stop
               | spending there, but that might not be a bad thing.
        
               | princevegeta89 wrote:
               | At the same time, unfortunately we will have a hard time
               | finding companies that will actually thrive on that
               | website, since a staggering majority of them are just
               | ridden with crooks in the management layer and above.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | Wouldn't that set up a conflict of interest for the
               | review site? I'd trust such a site even less than normal
               | (and normal is pretty close to not at all).
        
               | kfarr wrote:
               | Consumer Reports has entered the chat
        
             | wahnfrieden wrote:
             | I'm designing a worker cooperative owned and self hosted
             | distributed solution
        
             | wintogreen74 wrote:
             | Not a review site, but networks of people I trust directly
             | is about the only thing that works. As soon as this grows
             | beyond the trust I have in the network, the proxy trust
             | tapers off quickly. That's the problem with something like
             | glassdoor.
        
               | lacrimacida wrote:
               | That's why the most lucrative thing is to get people to
               | 'connect' their networks digitally on social media and
               | manipulate them. I hope we see a return to irl networks
        
             | alecthomas wrote:
             | https://www.productreview.com.au/ is the only site I've
             | ever seen that does a good job at user reviews. Each review
             | has to be accompanied by a verifiable receipt.
             | 
             | Here's their operating model, which sounds like a mix of
             | paid brand manager subscriptions and advertising:
             | https://support.productreview.com.au/hc/en-
             | us/articles/36000...
        
               | jiveturkey wrote:
               | > verifiable receipt
               | 
               | lol. the current amazon scam is to purchase the product
               | (ship to a random address to defeat "common address"
               | detection) then leave the fake review
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | Talking to some friends who are job-seeking, I do know they
           | check them.
           | 
           | Not so much positive reviews, but negative reviews are
           | believed.
        
         | pyeri wrote:
         | A blockchain based solution can be developed for customer
         | reviews. If your cryptographically signed and verifiable review
         | went and sat on the disk of every computer on the planet, there
         | will be no options to manipulate it.
        
           | JALTU wrote:
           | But those "seven positive" reviews will still show up! When I
           | was calculating the NPS scores at a former job, IIRC you need
           | seven or eight 100% scores to offset one low score.
           | Interesting that's what happened to the Desktop Metal poster.
        
             | pyeri wrote:
             | But (presumably) those seven posters would be motivated by
             | big tech money and thus be identified by some algorithm or
             | the other in that blockchain? And/or you being a genuine
             | reviewer would have a more organic activity across the
             | blockchain with other products too compared to theirs and
             | that will add to the weight?
        
               | sverhagen wrote:
               | There's just very little organic activity on a site like
               | Glassdoor. You changing jobs, and thus naturally having
               | any kind of inclination to post something may be few and
               | far between, and you might not even think of uploading a
               | review unless you're disgruntled (read: motivated).
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > (presumably) those seven posters would be motivated by
               | big tech money
               | 
               | Probably not, I think. They're more likely to be
               | employees or friends/family of the company doing it
               | because they were required or asked to.
        
           | starttoaster wrote:
           | Yeah except there would still be a mechanism for revoking or
           | moderating bad reviews because people would use the platform
           | to review bomb any company they took issue with. The review
           | might still be on the chain's history, but the moderation
           | tool would still be created with good intentions, with a new
           | transaction on a later block that basically revokes the
           | "validity" of the bad review. Similar mechanisms can be seen
           | in NFTs, where you can update the NFTs metadata.
        
         | randycupertino wrote:
         | At a healthcare tech startup I worked at for every negative
         | review we got management made us write three positive reviews.
         | The owners daughter would get all of her friends from college
         | to write more and more positive reviews.
         | 
         | It was so obvious, any fake review written by HR will always
         | have "keep doing what you're doing!" in the "advice to
         | management" section. Like, even a moderately happy employee
         | will actually have something to say in the "advice to
         | management" section. Only a shill will say, "Keep doing what
         | you're doing!"
        
           | incone123 wrote:
           | " The owners daughter would get all of her friends from
           | college to write more and more positive reviews."
           | 
           | A cottage industry of liars. I was pretty naive in college
           | and I still would have been skeptical about that.
        
       | WirelessGigabit wrote:
       | About the IP addresses:
       | 
       | If the users are behind CGNAT you cannot rely on the IP address.
       | 
       | I don't know what Glassdoor does in that case though.
        
       | nickpeterson wrote:
       | I remember working at a company that got frequently mentioned as
       | "one of the best places to work in CITY", and a few months into
       | my tenure one of the HR employees circulated the website to go
       | vote for our company on the "best places to work in CITY"
       | website.
       | 
       | I think Glassdoor is basically grievances by employees, some of
       | whom are unreasonable, and fake counter-reviews by HR/marketing.
       | I generally just look at the complaints and gauge how unrealistic
       | they sound.
        
         | spacemadness wrote:
         | Yes, I don't understand how someone who is basically content
         | with their employer decides they're going to write a Glassdoor
         | review. Why bother, you have better things to do. But if you're
         | pissed you might. Most reviews are glowing and decidedly fake
         | or really negative.
        
         | IlPeach wrote:
         | Same here. It does sound like Amazon reviews tbh.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | This. Also, some details are useful if seen statistically:
         | details about work / life balance, intensity of employee
         | turnover, particular broken processes. When they are not the
         | centerpiece of a review, and you see them in 10 reviews, they
         | likely correlate with something.
         | 
         | Of course, reviews like "all good, none bad" or "all bad, the
         | worst" are not informative.
         | 
         | Some interesting data can be gleaned about salaries, or the
         | interview process. But, again, it needs to be taken as
         | statistics, not as honest detailed descriptions.
        
       | TheRealDunkirk wrote:
       | I'm old enough to remember when "the wisdom of the crowd" on
       | collaborative web sites was going to solve all our problems, but
       | every platform that could have delivered on such a promise has
       | sold their soul to make an extra buck from people gaming their
       | systems, and killed the golden goose in the process. The _only_
       | reviews I trust are on Steam, and even then, I take them with a
       | grain of salt.
        
       | pushswap wrote:
       | I left a review on the BBB, when I was a student, after being
       | promised a gift card for a video interview of a product for one
       | of the large tech companie's PMs.
       | 
       | I refused a free trial or some other token offer by a call center
       | employee that the company sent as part of the BBB resolution
       | process.
       | 
       | Not long after,the BBB removed my review even though I offered
       | email evidence between the PM and I. I emailed one of their
       | managers asking for an explanation for why they removed it. They
       | gave me some vague boilerplate that didn't address the issue.
       | 
       | Because they weren't clear in their communication with me on the
       | reasons why, I couldn't help but wonder whether they had some
       | similar incentive in their relationships with certain companies
       | to remove problematic reviews.
        
         | IronWolve wrote:
         | The BBB is geared for companies, if you have an open issue, it
         | becomes a back and forth ping pong match to see who can outlast
         | each other. Companies HR will respond to the BBB update, they
         | wear you out, and it gets closed as resolved.
         | 
         | Its not.
         | 
         | Its utterly useless.
         | 
         | Same goes for some state agencies, file a complaint, but turns
         | into a response back and forth, until someone finally gives up
         | responding, and default closed.
         | 
         | Systems are designed to make you give up and go away.
        
           | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
           | Once I requested an insurance reimbursement for a
           | transportation expense of about $20.00, on the basis that
           | their chosen service failed me that night.
           | 
           | The reimbursement was denied, so I appealed. COVID lockdowns
           | were active, and the petty bureaucrat on charge of my appeal
           | barely knew how to use her phone. She said the request was
           | denied due to illegible documentation, which was bullshit.
           | 
           | They announced that the appeal was still undecided, but they
           | wanted to grant themselves an extension of several weeks to
           | study it more closely. I appealed the extension, and
           | presently I was mailed a check for the full amount.
           | 
           | How much is your time worth? Is $20 worth an hour of
           | wrangling bureaucracy?
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | The society as a whole would benefit from more information
       | transparency (in the job market and several other areas) but the
       | economic incentives just don't align to make this happen.
       | 
       | Which is kinda funny because the free market itself is advertised
       | based on how great it is - when there's information transparency.
        
       | brucethemoose2 wrote:
       | Has anyone here on HN actually "ordered" such fake reviews?
       | 
       | Or were maybe involved in their creation.
       | 
       | I kinda get it... The pressure for a perfect 5 stars is immensive
       | when every single competitor has it.
        
       | triyambakam wrote:
       | > One of the companies that he's offering his services to
       | includes a Y-Combinator backed startup.
       | 
       | I'd love to know
        
       | michaelteter wrote:
       | I believe that Glassdoor exists almost purely because salary
       | information is not public. While company reputation and reviews
       | are of interest, the salary information is likely much more a
       | driver of traffic.
       | 
       | And based on my attempted use of the site, Glassdoor is
       | unreliable and (intentionally) misleading.
       | 
       | Even at the most basic level, their UI flatly lies about what
       | data they possess. If you search a company, in the salary column
       | it will show a number which is designed to suggest a number of
       | salary data elements available. Honestly I cannot say what that
       | number actually means as it seems to have no value at all.
       | Specifically, it will say 5 or 8 or some other small but non-zero
       | number... and yet there are zero visible salary records for the
       | company (even if you are a contributor of information and thus
       | deemed to be allowed to view other information on the site).
       | 
       | I expect Glassdoor is like the many dating sites on the internet
       | - full of fluff and false/artificial information so the site
       | appears to be valuable and worth visits.
       | 
       | If we ever reach a point where company position salaries are
       | public on a broad scale, Glassdoor will fade into obscurity.
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | I saw a glassdoor salary range for a job at my company. I know
         | that the internal range is 50-100% higher than what glassdoor
         | suggests. And then I wonder why no one's applying. Companies
         | should just publicly advertise compensation.
        
           | milkytron wrote:
           | Some states are requiring salary ranges for job postings,
           | hopefully this becomes more prevalent.
        
         | sahila wrote:
         | https://www.levels.fyi/ is a grest site for actual salary
         | information on tech related jobs. The data reported very much
         | matched my last round of interviews and the data granularity is
         | good, being able to see levels, location, pay breakdowns, and
         | even dates when the salary was posted.
        
           | willis936 wrote:
           | This seems like a very nice tool if you are a capital case
           | SWE. There is no similar analog for more general engineering
           | positions.
        
           | Der_Einzige wrote:
           | Why are people downvoting this? Glassdoor numbers are BS and
           | levels.fyi is extremely accurate.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Aren't all these sites limited by (and biased by) the
             | selection of offer data they collect? Unless they are
             | working directly with payroll companies to obtain a
             | uniformly random sampling of offers, they're not going to
             | be accurate. What incentivizes employees who get below-
             | average offers and companies who give below-average offers
             | to share that data with these salary sites?
             | 
             | Example: Everyone who even knows someone who makes $500K at
             | Facebook seems to love posting about it here, but nobody
             | who makes $100K there seems to feel the need to boast about
             | it.
        
               | yamazakiwi wrote:
               | That's a reasonable distinction but just look at the data
               | itself.
               | 
               | There are tons of low level employees posting their
               | salaries. If you work in those roles, that data could be
               | more valuable to a candidate than Glassdoor's amorphous
               | projections.
               | 
               | I think the user behavior that facilitates this is the
               | same behavior you see represented on Blind.
        
           | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
           | I have found that the United States Bureau of Labor
           | Statistics is a comprehensive and unparalleled treasure trove
           | of current, accurate salary information, and much much more.
           | (US jobs only, natch.)
           | 
           | https://www.bls.gov/
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > I believe that Glassdoor exists almost purely because salary
         | information is not public.
         | 
         | It's possible, but I know that salary information isn't at all
         | what I'm interested in learning from such sites.
        
       | paradox460 wrote:
       | I once worked at a company that started getting a slew of bad
       | Glassdoor reviews. The reviews were real; the company leadership
       | had been making some bad choices and the reviews reflected it. So
       | they sent out messages in the company chatroom, asking people to
       | leave positive reviews.
        
         | LeafItAlone wrote:
         | > So they sent out messages in the company chatroom, asking
         | people to leave positive reviews.
         | 
         | I don't think this is necessarily wrong, provided there was
         | nothing forcing them to be positive or repercussions for not
         | doing it (or for leaving a negative review).
         | 
         | Most people review things only at the extremes (usually
         | negative) unless they are prompted. That's why Amazon sends
         | people emails with questions or asking for a review. If a
         | company asks their employees to leave positive reviews, and the
         | employees generally like the place and are willing, that seems
         | OK to me. I've lived in apartments that have done this and
         | noticed when looking at reviews for others that they must have
         | done the same.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > If a company asks their employees to leave positive
           | reviews, and the employees generally like the place and are
           | willing, that seems OK to me.
           | 
           | Yeah, it doesn't seem OK to me. The power differential is
           | such that there's no way for a company to ask that of
           | employees without the employees feeling like they have to
           | make the review positive, or less negative than they
           | otherwise might have. So I consider such reviews highly
           | unreliable. That companies do this sort of thing is one of
           | the reasons why I think reviews are pretty close to
           | worthless.
        
             | LeafItAlone wrote:
             | My last company sent out multiple "Please leave a positive
             | review on Glassdoor" emails as we were trying to hire more.
             | I never felt actually pressured to leave a review, positive
             | or not, from those requests. I didn't (and it would not
             | have been a positive one, if I did at that particular point
             | in my tenure) and there were no repercussions. There were a
             | few negative reviews added at the time, but there's no way
             | of knowing if those were a response to the email or not.
             | This was a large company, so maybe that matters to how
             | people feel about it.
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | Same situation except mine offered a day of pay upon spinning
         | positivity.
         | 
         | After this personal whoring, I was sure to leave a
         | complementary negative review from a shill account.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | You know, the account you wrote the positive review with was
           | the shill account.
        
             | aorloff wrote:
             | The grift is real
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | I think we need something like a canary signal to mark reviews,
         | posts, etc that you are forced to make, not expressing your
         | opinion.
         | 
         | Something innocent-looking, like a double question mark, or a
         | double exclamation.
        
           | paradox460 wrote:
           | One of my coworkers left a nasty review, and signed off with
           | "They asked us to write reviews about the company, so here's
           | mine"
        
       | 23B1 wrote:
       | The Yelp of employment sites.
       | 
       | Glassdoor generates revenue through advertising and 'employer
       | branding solutions'. Companies looking to advertise their job
       | listings and showcase their reputation are charged for these
       | services.
       | 
       | Reviews in general have grown unreliable as incentive alignments
       | have shifted.
        
       | beastcoast wrote:
       | Seems like Blind should get in on this game, since the premise of
       | the app is that it requires a company email address. Use an LLM
       | to extract insights from the comments and give them to
       | prospective job hunters for a small fee, or even just run ads.
        
         | azemetre wrote:
         | Blind already has company reviews, they also have a recruiting
         | service (hard to tell if it's a service or another job board)
         | for companies too.
        
           | avree wrote:
           | Blind company reviews are way more trustworthy because they
           | have a way to verify that you're a current employee with your
           | email.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Hmm that ChatGPT review doesn't sound like it was written by a
       | real human either. Because it's in corporatese not English.
       | 
       | And back to Glassdoor, they seem to be desperate for reviews?
       | Maybe non fake? I wanted to check a company last month so I went
       | to them and found out you now have to register. Alright, I made
       | the effort. Then they didn't let me see anything before I
       | uploaded a review of my current job.
       | 
       | I don't know if this is to prevent fakes but they lost me, at
       | least for now.
        
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