[HN Gopher] The Tyranny of the Tale
___________________________________________________________________
The Tyranny of the Tale
Author : samclemens
Score : 43 points
Date : 2023-07-06 02:59 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| mousebender wrote:
| Great piece. "How efficiently it enables us to forget to look up
| and ask: What is it that story does not allow us to see?"--that's
| a good guideline for critical reading and thought. The trend of
| narrative leads to journalism by individual anecdote, and that's
| a sign to keep an eye out for spin and deception. It was a
| surprise to know that storytelling had its skeptics even in
| Plato's time. To improve understanding and to improve the lives
| of mankind, the world needs explanations with data, logic, a
| critical eye, and plausible causation--not stories.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| I wrote a post about public speaking (amazingly, I'll refrain
| from self-promoting it here /s ) and part of that was reviewing
| other "advice" on speaking.
|
| One of the things they almost always say is, "tell a story."
|
| The problem is that everyone does it these days. You're listening
| and thinking, "oh, he's telling a story now."
|
| Maybe the New Yorker's moved on, but for years, their standard
| template was,
|
| 1. Introduce a person A who does X
|
| 2. Expound on X, occasionally mentioning A
|
| 3. Finish the story about A.
| seanc wrote:
| That's not just the New Yorker, you see it all over.
| kibwen wrote:
| _> The problem is that everyone does it these days. You 're
| listening and thinking, "oh, he's telling a story now."_
|
| I think there's something about the human brain that is
| hardwired prefer things that are framed as stories. It's only
| natural that this practice should be widespread.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Yeah, it IS useful. You don't want to be _too_ obvious about
| it, though.
|
| It's like hand gestures when speaking. Yeah, they're
| important, but you don't want to look like a robot, either.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I agree with the premise. Stories are powerful and can be used to
| effectively cage us into thinking in terms of simple lines ( and
| unable to see that there are multiple other outcomes ). Some
| stories are more potent than others. Some resonate more than
| others, but everyone recognizes their power.
|
| The question naturally becomes why, all of a sudden, New Yorker
| would want to put a spotlight on this? Did the stories become a
| tool that has been used all too often? Did the wrong person
| harness the power of the story? Are wrong stories circling
| around?
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| > Stories are powerful ... but everyone recognizes their power
|
| I don't. What is 'power' and do all stories have it?
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Hmm. Power is the ability to do what you will. Being able to
| convince people to your point of view is an extension of
| that. You truly do not think there is a connection between
| the two?
|
| I do not want to assume, but have you considered why the
| movie tropes are so prevalent in the movie industry? Do you
| really think no one can think of anything new or.. there is a
| simpler explanation?
| mihaic wrote:
| One thing that I've noticed in recent years is just how good
| the general population has gotten at bullshiting.
|
| Where before you didn't have too many teachers in this dark art
| of spinning any argument, the internet has given everyone a
| crash course into what arguments are easier or harder to
| combat.
|
| This democratization I think ironically led to better arguing
| of worse concepts.
|
| Maybe a critical mass is finally forming against bullshit.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| > Maybe a critical mass is finally forming against bullshit.
|
| Oh, this is surely not it.
|
| The previous mass media has been reacting to the new
| distributed propaganda machines for a while already, in self-
| preservation mode. This article is just them trying not to be
| too confrontational for a change, because it backfired very
| badly.
|
| I keep hoping that some anti-bullshit memes spread, but when
| that happens, you won't see them on the mass media for a
| while.
|
| (And yes, I keep having to remind myself that protections
| against mass media appeared only after a pandemics of crimes
| against humanity it helped creating from the WWII to the
| 80's, and in only very few formats mostly useless against
| most problems. It's not a given that anti-bullshit memes can
| spread at all. The future is a dangerous place.)
| csours wrote:
| The internet has exposed us to more points of view than ever
| before.
|
| The internet has also prioritized stories that get more clicks.
| Clickable stories have certain characteristics, including easy
| to understand morality (blame THEM, it's their fault!).
|
| Headlines have trended towards the hate-click and the mystery-
| click.
|
| If you think it's a good idea to actually engage with ideas,
| this is bad. Long-form periodicals are built on the premise
| that it's good to engage with ideas.
| DharmaPolice wrote:
| >The question naturally becomes why, all of a sudden, New
| Yorker would want to put a spotlight on this?
|
| You're suggesting a degree of coordination/calculation which
| I'm not sure exists here. Someone felt this would make a good
| article, the editor agreed, the end. Does there need to be more
| to it than that?
| speak_plainly wrote:
| I would guess that it's because the current approach is no
| longer working as well as it should as the gap between the
| political class and citizens grows larger and the narrative
| appears less and less believable or comes off as nonsensical.
| This sort of narrative spinning is driven by the political
| class and is an essential element to keeping a grip on power or
| affecting change.
| hirundo wrote:
| "Stories are powerful and can be used to effectively cage us
| ..."
|
| Stories are one rhetorical device that a service like
| boringreport.org can shield us from. But that certainly does
| makes content more boring, which leads to consuming less news.
| For me the opportunity cost of news is mostly too high anyway.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| This is delightful -- a piece of comment-performance-art!
|
| To any confused readers, consider the second paragraph _in the
| context of the first_.
| wesleychen wrote:
| What a concise narrative that would be!
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-07-07 23:02 UTC)